I am requesting information if anyone has any knowledge of this. Last night on the Art Bell Show, a lady called who lived in SW Pa. See related that near where she lives is a plant where they fix up Army Tanks. Then she went on how there has been an increase of activity at this plant lately. She also related how the Army Tanks which have been painted the desert brown were being repainted to a darker other color which I don't remember what color she said. Now just lately she went on to state there has been also stockpiling of ammo also at this plant. Then Art Bell related how he has heard, just RUMOR, of Army Tanks being stockpiled near Yermo, Ca. Yermo, Ca. is in Southern California near Barstow out in the desert. Does anyone know anything about this? When Martial Law is declared will they bring in Tanks also to try to control us? Inquiring Minds Want to Know!

-- Kayla Michael (kaylam@jetcity.com), November 18, 1999

Answers

Grapevine says 400 more T-62's at FT.Hood Texas.

Source said army already had as many T-62's as needed prior to these and special unit there speaks russian and well versed in russian methods.

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), November 18, 1999.

Tanks, Smanks. Please tell me how tanks would be used to quell domestic insurgencies? Let me hear from some of you current and past military people, not the paranoid dipshits that dont know squat about warfare.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 18, 1999.

Hey Truth (so-called),

A tank or APC makes a great roadblock or on-ramp barricade. That 'aint paranoia, that's just strategic logic.

Use your brain.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), November 18, 1999.

What if anything is the Mass Media Reporting on all of this Armed Forces build up?

-- enquiringminds (karlacalif@aol.com), November 18, 1999.

The OPFOR armor unit uses ex-russki vehicles to train our people in tactics. The T-62 is an old model, but still in use in certain countries not, shall we say, on the Pentagon's christmas card list.

The problem with these reports is that they are just that-rumors. Not once have I ever seen any substantiation of any kind. However, I freely concede that the implied scenario <> happen. I just haven't seen any proof. I wouldn't put anything out of bounds with the current administration.

The use of tanks supported by infantry is a classic tactic for suppression in fortified and built-up areas (like cities). Nothing like an armored behemoth parked at the corner to keep the populace thinking: do I really need to go anywhere today?

-- chairborne commando (what-me-worry@armageddon.com), November 18, 1999.

Maid

You are so fulla SHIT! WHY is it we find this kind of crap STILL being propogated here? FYI, Having just been at Hood, there are absolutely NO combat ready T-62 on the friggin' post. The only T-62's on the base are 'trophys' we took back from The Gulf, probably 10-15 tops! Not even in running condition for that matter!!! And if you have any Doubts about the veracity of this, my Boanfides are (formerly of) Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion 12th United States Cavalry,1st Cavalry Division Ft Hood Texas. If you really are paranoid give my old Battalion a call 254-287-0823. That might settle you down...

As far as special the 'russian trained units'. Again,
"BULLSHIT!"
Man...I was in One of two OPFOR (opposing force) units that the United States Army/military has. One is located in a shithole that is called the Combat Manuever Training Center or CMTC in Hohenfels Germany. It's called 1st Battalion, 4th Infantry under 7th Army Training Command. I was there for two years, and yes, we did train as if we were russkies, wearing Black BDU, driving VISMOD (visually modified) vehicals. The other Unit is Located in , wow, Pay attention Kayla,... Barstow California! This is called NTC, The National Training Center, another shithole, home of the 1st Battalion, 73rd Guards. They simulate desert warfare, utilizing russkie tactics and yup, even use real russian tanks and weapons to 'add to the realizm' Enough with the foil. As far as the PA sighting, the army is currently finalizing the upgrade of all M1A1 Abrams MBT to the newest variant of the M1, the M1A2. Theye are -attempting- to finish this by the end of the year. If they don't get it done, General Dynamics stands to get hit with some really heavy fines for failure to complete the contract. As far as the darker paint, its called CARC. Chemical, A..., Resistant, Coating. (cant remember what the a stands for) CARC goes on really dark, and fades over a period of months, as the U.V. breaks down the coating. When I worked in the paintbooth for a while, we refered to CARC as "Cancer In A Can" or "Bucket O' Tumors" Nasty stuff...

Truth!!! S'up dude? (or dudette?) As we found in Bosnia, a tank give one hell of a psychological 'edge' over those who ain't got 'em. We were taught, (and I have seen personally!) that the M1A1 is the PENULTIMATE equalizer. Why do you ask? Well....lessee, you got a shotgun. He's got a Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore with AT and AB (anti-tank and anti-building) capability, plus two 7.62 M-240 Belgian Made coaxial Machine guns, AND the venerable Ma-Deuce, John Brownings M-2 .50 cal (12.7mm) heavy machine gun, all wrapped up in the strongest armor package ever feilded, weighing in at 74 tons and powered by a 1500 horsepower Lycoming jet turbine engine capable of propelling this vision-from-hell at speeds in excess of 70 miles per hour!!!(Tim Allen Noises!!!OOOOHHHAAAHAHAHAH!!!) You got buckshot in your twelve gauge. Any questions?

Got clean shorts?

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

Tanks were used in the L.A. riot because of all the random bullets and violent "pull the person out of a vehicle" events.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 18, 1999.

Billy Boy, While I agree with you on the places and uses for the tanks. I will even back you up on the rebuild of the tanks. (It is being done at Bowen McClaughlin in York Pa also) The part I will disagree with you is your manner in presenting it. Not all of us on this board are doomers or pollies. Not everyone on here has the military background that you seem to have and that I have. For those that aren't used to seeing these things, they are quite a surprise. All we are asking is that someone such as yourself give us the reasons for the appearence in an un-sarcastic manner. IMHO. Can you explain the photos that we have on our desks of a fully armed (TOW's, Rockets, 20mm ammo) on our private airport in Frederick, Md. or the Force Provider components being assembled in record time (photos taken) here in Frederick, yet the equipment isn't leaving. It is all marked Force Provider and is stacked behind a public building with a fence around it. As you should know, enemy intelligence agents will gather small, insignificant pieces of information and put them all together to form the big picture of their interrpretation of your actions(correct or not) and act upon those interpretations accordingly. This is all that these people are doing and then they are sending them into the central recieving point; namely this board for all of us to suppose about. Yet you and others ridicule this which is common, accepted practice in the military. Hmmmm, seems arrogant IMHO.

-- Greg (skipy1@prodigy.net), November 18, 1999.

The use of these particular tanks is very unlikely. The logistics required to handle such a sizable force is beyond the current capability of the U.S. Military.

The overall problem of the Martial Law theory of Y2K is logistics. The U.S. is not capable of maintaining a state of martial law for an extended period of time, regardless of the vehicles used. Without a supporting civilian population, our volunteer army would not last very long. The first week or so would see the greatest impact of a martial law order, but that would be in limited areas (e.g., cities and other problem areas).

If any thing, the military would be called upon to help distribute resources. Look for trucks, not tanks. There is of course a more likely scenario in which the government seizes certain businesses and industries. Government take over of businesses is more threatening in my book.

I don't see Y2K as a big bang, rather it is more like a big leak where our usual patches don't work. Initially, some will proclaim they have beaten the bug, but as weeks pass things will get interesting. The supply chain is the most vulnerable. The military will more than likely be called upon to help, whether we want it or not.

-- K.C. Farmer (kcfarmer@earthlink.net), November 18, 1999.

Billy-Boy.

The purpose of my post was to elicit some response from an expert military source and you have provided just that. Thanks for the education and I dont mind getting slammed a little. Im not sure that we would see many tanks on the street unless the whole shebang went to hell but who knows. I remember the APCs rolling down 12th street in 1968 (Detroit). The rioters just moved over a block or so. As Invar pointed out they would have some value for perimeter containment and intimidation, maybe.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 18, 1999.

They didn't use tanks at Tiennamin (SP?) Square? Or Moscow? That must have been a giant pair of Billy-Boy's (full) shorts Yeltsin was standing on. BTW, What I got for anti-tank I'm not talking about...

-- Powder (powder@keg.com), November 18, 1999.

The stuff at Yermo is the Marine Corps storage depot. Stuff has been sitting in the high desert for years.

Amateurs talk weapons and battles, professionals talk supplys. We also call it the "teeth to tail" ratio.

A depot full of tanks is useless unless you can deliver to it trained crews, fuel, ammo. And keep it resupplied. Right now, there are not enough TRAINED Marines at Camp Pendalton, CA to drive/fight all the combat vehicles at Yermo.

Ask any car dealer how many steps there are in getting a new car off the auto transporter, into showroom condition, then sold, spiffed up and ready to deliver to a customer. Multiply the man-hours by at least 5 to figure out the time to get a combat vehicle ready. Maintainence on high-tech military vehicles runs 3+ hours of maintainence for each hour of combat time.

NOTE: You can fight tanks very well with small arms. The crew has to come out to eat, work on maintainence and pee sometime. If you burn the fuel trucks, the tanks are not going any where. If you toss a couple of rocks down the gun barrel it will certainly make a mess the first time they fire it. If the gunner is off swaping rations for sex when the order comes to move out, that tank won't fight much.

-- Staffpuke (COS@mil.com), November 18, 1999.

Greg, what irritants the living hell out of me aren't the posting like Kayla's, but the nonsensical meanderings of postings to the thread like Maid's. I realize the value of intel. I'm sorry if I offended, and by all means, people should not allow the rantings of a lunatic like me to interfere with them...maybe I should have ended my last posting with "RANT OFF".

None the less, I still feel strongly that before a person posts something like that, they should attempt to research it a bit better. Imagine how the 'great unwashed masses' would react to a -tidbit- piece of info, with having taken the time to piece together the 'bigger picture'? Many of the sites on the web get little or no credibilty for unthinking posts like that 600 russian T-62s? Joe Sixpack'd shit himself if he had it in his head that was true. Don't get me wrong...its just the silliness that really gets me down...after all...we all have a lot to do, and very little time left.

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.

Billy-Boy...

Could not agree with you more!

-- Truth (at@the.ready), November 18, 1999.

"Without a supporting civilian population, our volunteer army would not last very long"

Weren't there foreign soldiers involved in our Urban Warfare training exercises?

-- fraidofBillyboy (helpme@sir.com), November 18, 1999.

Possibly. Very likely even...And your point? Regularly the military does exchanges of troopies. I myself have worked with the French, Brits, Irish, ANZACS, Germans, Dutch, Columbian, a few Turks, and even the Russians came to visit us at one point. What is so unusual about this there "fraid o' me"?

Get this. The US military is currently serving in over 144 countries world wide. Why shouldn't they come to the US? Is it that special? Or are you just another paranoid-delusional that sees any foriegn uniform on our 'sacred soil' as the first step to a UN invasion? If that is the case, then you should NEVERset foot around Petagon City in DC. Never in my life have I seen so many foriegn Brass Hats and grunts. I my self loved training with the other countries armies. It promotes good interservice comunication, and a great bonding experience, especially during the offhours drinking contests! (The Brits and Irish could drink a brewry dry, and the Turks are lousydrunks...)So relax there pardner...Y'all gettin a little too jumpy for your own (and my own) good.

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasan@yahoo.com), November 18, 1999.