--just a quickie, I'm back to time restricted posting at the library, but will try to contribute more soon, both political and some nuts and bolt survival tips and expertise. With that said, just found out some posts about possible hardcore scenarios pertaining to after the crash possible violence against women were recently deleted. This is unfortunate. I HAVE posted on the fact that this is a sysop controlled board, and they have 100% authority to delete any and all posts they choose. This is their right and assigned duty, no problemski there at all. I would like to say,however, that given the nature of extreme human behavior, something that millions of people really have never seen, that posts regardings threats of physical violence to individuals and families after the crash by predators should be discussed when brought up. If you have never been in this situation, no amount of words can describe it, so maybe graphical allusions might be enough for "a generic someone" to maybe take it seriously as they are preparing, as part of an over-all, balanced plan. I know the remants of terror I saw in the eyes of woman after woman who came into the firearms store where I worked for awhile, AFTER THE FACT of needing to own and train with a gun. I talked with these women, they were getting their first one, and usually always prefaced their inquiries with "I never believed" or "I never thought", referring to both ultra violence, and to the proficient use of self defense including firearms for themselves or daughters or friends. Now discussiuons like this may seem severe, but the obscenity of the reality of it far outweighs a before hand "just in case" discussion.

Thank you zoggus

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), December 04, 1999

Answers

Thank you zog. FWIW, I agree with you.

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), December 04, 1999.

Zog:

Frame it right and you're on.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 04, 1999.

Zog, For what it is worth, please continue saying what you are saying. If they delete it, oh well just keep trying. I have been a party to some bad violence that can only be directed to women. Gals, you need to listen to what the man says. It ain't pretty, and the scars last a life time. Deal with the situation in your head NOW and know what you will do.

Sincerely, A Woman that has been there...

-- (awoman@whose.beenthere), December 04, 1999.

As Chuck stated the key words here are "Frame It Right". If this subject comes off as some sick fantasy, then I guarantee you that you will offend women and any honorable desire to teach will be ruined.

I've seen several of these posts and IMHO the guys writing them are secretly hoping that social chaos gives them freedom to rape. I hope your motives are more honorable than that Zog.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), December 04, 1999.

Uncle Zog:

Post onward and upward!

Don't fret the ubiquitous stupidity.

Many people don't appreciate or understand your mindset.

I do. 8^) [Yes, I wear glasses.]

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), December 04, 1999.

Zog

is the one person on this board I would want to be with me if I happened to get stuck 100 miles out in the wilderness with nothing other than the clothes on my back.

Providing :) (hehe) there was an "off button" just in case.

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), December 04, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

zog rulz!

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 04, 1999.

don't worry, mabel......

been reading zog's postings for almost two years now...........

and zog has ALWAYS been a gentleman!

-- andrea (mebs@home.cuz), December 04, 1999.

Hit it, Zogmeister!!

-- Liz Pavek (lizpavek@hotmail.com), December 04, 1999.

I have followed Zog's posts since 5/98 on the GN forums,and downloaded almost everything he has written. Zog's posts are always informative and thought provoking. This is one man who doesn't just "talk the talk", he has "walked the walk". Always a gentleman.

Gato

-- Gato (pencil@mindspring.com), December 04, 1999.

There is no difference between being raped and being pushed down a flight of stairs except that the wounds bleed on the inside.

There is no differecce between being raped and being run over by a truck except that afterward men ask if you enjoyed it.

There is no difference between being raped and going head first through a windshield except that afterward you are afraid not of cars but half the human race.

anonymous rape survivor

I have lived through rape. At first I survived, now I live. It took me 10 years to funtion without hate. We all need to look in our hearts and see what we are capable of. Hatti

-- Hatti (Klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

Zog, Iwould be interested in what a conscientious man has to say on this.

Women, I am 38 years old. I cut my teeth on the womens movement. I also have been a stay at home Mom. If SHTF womens "Lib" is out the door! I have fought for my rights and realized how fragil they were all my life. Kind of like America. We may have to take some steps back in the near future but don't forget how far we came this century! And please, PLEASE, do NOT forget the babies if we get the chance to do it agine. Hatti

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

This is one of the possiblities that makes your mind want to shut- down.

Zog, always enjoy your posts.........even the ones that are difficult

-- beprepared (karlacalif@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

I would like to see women respond to this. I don't care what your beliefs are. We stand in this respect,"together".

Men, walk down the street tomarrow and see how many women meet your eye. This is not just feminine decorum. This is preservation. I feel like the ecologist of my daughters soul.

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

Thank you all for this on topic Y2K information..............

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), December 05, 1999.

Thank you Craig!! ON topic! I like that. What is the difference between a washing machine and a computer except to make life easier so we have the time to search our souls for the meaning of life! Yes, this is ON TOPIC! This subject is what life is made of.

Did anyone send their Grandparents a Christmas card yet?

-- hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

I know THIS subject!

To the Top!

Read Susan Brownmiller, "Against our Will, Men, Women and Rape"

Watch "Paradise Road"

My favorite movie is "Inn of the Sixth Happiness" Ingred Bergmen, recently put to viedo last 6 mos.

Take care of the babies, even if you die, this is how you teach them. I have raised 7 well. Not without flaws, but well. I do not think I am smarter than any man or woman, I think I just didn't quit!

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

Men, are good!

Women have raised them!

Judge yourself!

Hatti!!

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.