First I want to say that this site is a sight for sore eyes. I've been doing Y2k research for 3 years, and just stumbled on to greenspun last week (followed a thread from good ol' Gary North). I am now drawn here like a moth to a flame. Judging from the posts, I'm not the only one. For every poster, there are probably 5 lurkers. Some posters seem like they've taken up full time residence here.

My question is this, "For those doomers (I include myself), why do you want to survive?" Many of the scenarios that are entertained on this and on other sites are very ugly (concentration camps, terrorism, martial law, confiscation of property, not to mention plague, pestilence, famine and nuclear fallout). No power, no water, no waste disposal, no telephones. No insurance, no currency, no retirement, no portfolio. The end of the American Dream. The end of the planetary dream. Do you really want to be living a subsistance lifestyle, waiting for the "militia" to collect the fruits of your labor as payment for their protection (ala "The Postman")?

I have a theory. It germinated and sprouted from the seeds in "The Third Millenium", (transcribed) by Ken Carey. We are experiencing a quickening. The rate of change increasing geometrically (visualize the golden spiral). Vast amounts of energy are flooding the planet (polarizing energy). We are moving toward an implosion, when the spiral reaches the end (2012?). The end of history, the birth of a new age. The dream of the planet will be replaced by your dream, and the dream of everyone who survives Y2k (and sun spots, the pole shift, polar ice caps melting, etc.) You can dream a "Gattaca", a "Brave New World", a "Gotham City", a "Logans Run", a "Brazil", a "Fahrenheit 451", a New World Order, or you can dream of cummunities based on love and cooperation, of John Lennon's dream ("imagine"), or of Martin Luther King's dream. Those with similar dreams will join together, as drops of mercury join together to form larger drops. These million separate dreams will not impose themselves on each other - the Nazi dream will not challenge the Jewish dream. Nurture a dream based on fear, and your life will be a nightmare (of unending conspiracies).

The question I asked myself was "Am I making all these preparations simply because I'm afraid to die?" Am I willing to kill someone because they want to take my provisions, because they didn't prepare (and they're afraid to die also?). Am I willing to share my provisions with others, knowing that my 90 day supply will only last 30 people 9 days? Yesterday I would answered no, yes, no. Today I'm not sure. If I die, hiding out, defending my possessions, I will wakeup in a dream where I am always afraid. If I die because I tried to be a good samaritan, I will not be haunted by the demons of remorse and regret. This, I believe, is the gift of Y2k - an opportunity create a positive vision, an to manifest that vision. And we may not have to be in the flesh to create our new dream.

I appreciate this site allowing anonymous postings (tho' I don't know why it's necessary to come up with a URL, since it creates problems for the community). I'm already considered a crackpot for taking Y2k seriously - I'm not anxious to add fuel to the fire.

Far Out

-- Far Out (lika@reality.chk), December 05, 1999

Answers

"Am I willing to share my provisions with others, knowing that my 90 day supply will only last 30 people 9 days?"

You might want to recheck your math here....

-- Choirboy (choirboy@hellzchoir.edu), December 05, 1999.

I've prepared for three.

-- Far Our (lika@reality.chk), December 05, 1999.

Gosh, for me anyway, the answer is easy. I like my job. I love the technology, I love my family and home. I have no desire for even a 'bump in the road'. I enjoy my profession. Life is pretty good for Mrs. Rimmer and I right now so I've got no desire to change things dramatically. We've got great friends. I could go on but I'm sure that you get the picture...basically we prepare because we want to continue living the life we've worked hard to obtain.

I think each of the things you mention above are possible somewhere on the planet but I pray that 'possible' fades to 'not likely'.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.ner), December 05, 1999.

Faaaaaaarrrrr oooooouuuuttt duuuuuudde!!

I like your vision of the future Far Out, that's kinda what I'm hoping for too. Mankind seriously needs a major paradigm shift, and I'm ready, in fact hoping that it happens soon. Welcome to our little Dreamland!

(*V*)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), December 05, 1999.

Yes! Now I am mad.

Take care of the babies!

What other reason do you have to live for??

What other reason has there ever been?

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

My children and my wife. I want to survive to take care of my children and my wife because they need me. It's that simple and I think you'll find any parent who has dependents will believe the same.

Before I had children I didn't understand this.

-- Phillip (dad@family.net), December 05, 1999.

As you rummage through the wreckage of our ruined civilization you just might discover an abandoned liquor store stocked to the rafters with single malt scotch which is being cared for by a beautiful nyphomaniac who thinks you are handsome. Seriously, there is always something to look forward to. I read somewhere that even in the German concentration camps there were times of laughter, singing and kindness. There even exists a collection of childrens drawings done in the camps. They were happy drawings much like our kids draw today in our middle class homes.

I spent 25 yrs in law enforcement in one of the biggest cities in the country. 10 years investigating murders and suicides. There is no doubt that it is good to be rich and have THINGS all around you, but those people whack themselves as frequently if not more than poor people.

A shrink once explained to me that everyone has as a part of them that is called the "Warrior" That is what makes a mother scrub floors to take care of their kids, a father work two jobs for the benefit of the familiy. When the warrior in a person dies, because the effort is unappreciated or not required a person then lives only for himself. Maybe thats why there are so many deadbeat dads nowdays and so many suicides. One poster said, "You live for the kids" That is probably exactly what I have just said, only more to the point. We don't live just to exist no matter what the eviorment is.

Good luck to you and your family: Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), December 05, 1999.

I choose to survive whatever comes because of respect for my ancestors. My ancestors endured wars, famine, plagues, sickness, poverty, and I'm sure a host of other things I cannot even imagine. They didn't give up -- roll over and die. They perservered. By choosing to survive, I honor them.

I will do the same -- God willing -- long enough to see my children to an age where they are self-sufficient. In that way, the chain remains unbroken. If I go down, I will go down fighting.

Just some thoughts.

Stars and Stripes

-- Stars and Stripes (stars_n_stripes@my_deja.com), December 05, 1999.

Most dead beat dads have become such because of the bad treatment from their ex wife. Like no visitation, etc. Why pay somebody for treating you like hell? I know, you have to take care of the children, but a man can take only so much.

As in my case, I live in the same town as my kids, but my ex will not allow me to see them. I have not seen them for 17 years! I'm just tired of fighting that dammed woman, so I gave up fighting. Several thousand dollars a whack every time you go to court without any results would cause any guy to give up.

I owe my ex over $50,000 in back child support, but she'll never get it. She had her chance when I gave her that ultimatum. I would be current in my child support if I was allowed to be a father. If the court system was not so screwed up, there would be more equality in the law and there would be no dead beat dads!! It is all the governments fault! Then they wonder why I don't pay income tax!!!

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), December 05, 1999.

Far Out

I had a few answers to your question. *Why survive?*

Like;

Why not?

or

It's Natural

or

Do you have anything else better to do?

or

I would rather be fishing than ......

or

just getting out of the rat race

or

love the smell of wood smoke

or

Look at how the garden looks!

or

The kids are better off out of town

or

I know my community

or

home is where a six by two foot area is free

or

you got water?

or

any or all of the above

Keep your liners dry eh?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 05, 1999.

Bill. Shame on you!! Don't quite yet! We need people like you!

Their is a difference between right and wrong and you know what it is!

You can do this. Now is the time for your smarts and your heart!

WOMEN and CHILDREN are counting on you. Don't let us down.

Why survive?? Because it is your duty!!!!

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

THAT CHILD SUPPORT YOU DIDNT PAY ISNT FOR THE WIFE ITS FOR THE CHILD YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!! Do you believe that your child did anything to you?

-- Susan Barrett (sue59@bellsouth.net), December 05, 1999.

Far Out,

I agree with your sentiments. I've "known" something like this was coming for a LONG time...since I was a young child actually, but I did not know exactly how it would manifest itself. The irony of it being, at least in it's initial stages, a technological issue and originating from a general lack of foresight and an abundance of greed has some fairly blatant Karmic implications. And I do agree that things will, after a dark and tumultous period, change for the better...and that's why I'm hanging on. Further, despite all the various music I've made and the incredibly interesting life I have led thusfar, I have always felt that the real "work" of my life lay ahead of me. I strongly suspect that there are a lot of people who feel the same way, though they may choose a far different way to articulate it.

John Ludi

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), December 05, 1999.

bbb, Your a jerk!

-- Hatti (klavine@tco.com), December 05, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

bbb: The mother of your child(ren) probably recognizes that it is best for her children to not associate with someone like you who would treat a child so poorly. You obviously have no love for your children or you would not punish them for something that is out of their control. You should devote your life to making up that $50,000 that you owe and then some. And don't count on getting to see them after the trick that you pulled.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 05, 1999.

bbb - this hit me at the wrong moment. I am so sick of pathetic excuses like yours. If you were here I would spit at you. I have had it with selfish, irresponsible, stupid people who can't put children first. Grow up. Take care of the kids that your actions created. I have seen the results of dead beat dads. The wife can go on and have a life so you're not ruining her. But the kids suffer beyond anything you could do to her. Make a difference in this sick world. BE A MAN not an asshole

-- a mom (sick@deadbeats.com), December 05, 1999.

Re child support---for anyone else that does't want to, or doesn't pay--why not have it written in to your divorse decree that the custodial parent give a regular accounting for the $$ spent on each child--to cover housing, medical, clothing, food, education, transportation, heat, lights, daycare--etc. all the categories that this support is suppose to SUPPORT! Have the custodial parent answer to the court and to the children, not you. THen you will know that your children are the recipients of your dollars. If only I had a chance to show the court that $75 per month for 3 children was not adequate-- or fair in the light of his $$$$$$ income.

-- Been there (lurking@frustration.com), December 05, 1999.

Far Out,

There is a better world (aion,age) coming! I've known for several decades that the present economy would fall. It is a given that people cannot live as slaves forever. "Live free or die!" "Give me liberty or give me death!"

The fact is that evil will be purged from this planet and people will begin to live as was intended. Free! That is from my Christian perspective and not from the corrupted version of Churchianity.

There is a writing..."Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty."

It is an interesting thing that Christians are told not to flaunt their liberty in front of people who do not understand the freedom we are given. The idea being that the unfree, those unable yet to understand that God is not here to punish you for everything, think they are wrong in their perception and therefore consider themselves to be sinful in all things they think say and do. Jesus sumned up the Law by saying..."Love God and love your neighbor"...(Gal 5-6:22 KJV) "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Take care.

We win!

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), December 05, 1999.

Been there,

"$75 per month for 3 children was not adequate-- or fair in the light of his $$$$$$ income."

Here is Ca, I was ordered to pay approx. $1200.00 per month for two children, part of that was for spousal support. Never missed a payment, but when I was done with spousal support, after two years, the DA called and said I owed another 2-3000.00. I showed her mine and she showed me hers. She had a court document in her hand that ordered me to pay the additional amount. I had never seen that order before, however I paid. Had to work six days a week in order to do it but I did it. Plus all the extras for the kids...clothes, movies, cars, auto insurance, bikes, trips, allowances, doctor bills, school supplies, summer camp, scuba camp, etc. etc. Glad to have been able to do it, no regrets, good experience.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), December 05, 1999.

Mark H.

May you be blessed in your rising up, in your laying down, in your going forth and in your coming in.

You are one of my new heros :-)

If I knew HTML well enough I would present you with a badge of honor!

I wish more men were real men like you.

From Obo the mom of a child who has had to do without many things because her dad is over $40,000.00 behind in her support.

-- Obo (susanwater@excite.com), December 05, 1999.

My poor spoiled american friend,we've never had any choice as to what world we live in.Our bodies are soft and weak from overly soft lives and overly rich diet. luckily the body quickly responds to increased demands and the lean and mean crises adapted Amerikans will respond well to jingoist arguments encouraging military siezure of arab oil.With our dread Imperial military with its invincible depleted uranium tanks. Y2k will be great for america as a world power.We will enslave and murder around the world as well as at home.Woe to the conquered.

-- apokoliptik (apokoliptik@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.

Yea bbb...

Who do you think you are? You should give up everthing for "the childern" after all, your life does not count any more, the only reason you have to live is to support your childern and your ex-wife. (if any of you think that the ex and new hubby/boyfriend do not benifit from this extra "free" money, you are living in a dream world.)

Sure, it also benifits the childern, but I don't think bbb is asking to much. All he wants is to be able to be part of the childerns life and the ex won't let it happen. Surely, if you advocate that he must pay his child support without question, then with equal determination you must insist that he has every right to see his childern.

What a bunch of Hypocrites.

-- Been there (I know you @will notget it.net), December 05, 1999.

The ex wife choice was to ignore the ultimatum. The ultimatum was, no visitation, no child support. She was the one who chose no child support and she is the one who did not care about her children haing money or a father. Withholding child support is the only weapon a divorced man has. An ex wife who denies visitation and who choses no child support over visitation is the asshole. It was her choice! Any ex who keeps children from a father should be put in prison!

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), December 05, 1999.

bbb, I really feel for you since the same thing has happened to me. The above assholes who think you should pay regardless, have never walked in our shoes. It is total hell to lose your children to a lousy bitch who wants to destroy a father. It almost destroyed me to lose my children. Excruciating pain every day over the loss of ones children is more than a man can bear and go on in life. It was his ex-bitch's choice to do without child support and I my ex did the same. Too bad the Courts only go after the father and not the mother who commits a crime equal to murder! Yes, stealing a fathers children is equal to murder and the Courts do nothing about it! You assholes above need to imagine the loss of your children for 21 years like I had to and then see how you feel about the whole thing. You assholes do not have a clue what losing your children is all about! You assholes get a life!!!

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), December 05, 1999.

bbb went the proper way to attempt to get visitation rights through the Courts. When the Courts failed, then he had no other choice than to take the law in his own hands.

bbb had no other choice. He as last resort gave his ex an ultimatum. The ex is the one who is guilty of neglecting her children by not wanting child support and not allowing her children to have a father.

Do you notice the ones who are screaming asshole to bbb, are women? They have no clue how absolutely awfull it is for a father to lose his children.

Yes, I second Smitty reply by saying, "GET A LIFE YOU ASSHOLES WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT A FATHERS GOD GIVEN RIGHTS TO BE A FATHER!!!!"

-- snodgrass (snod@grass.com), December 05, 1999.

Far Out,

Did you know that approximately six billion (or so) humans have already died (from the beginning of human history until now)? I figure of six billion humans can die, then death isn't such a big deal. The day I realized this is the day I began to live, really live, for the first time.

As for why it's important to survive, well, in my view of life everything boils down to one thing: The survival and reproduction of your genes. I'll explain this a little more.

Each person alive today is equal in all respects to everyone else alive. Most people disagree with this statement. These people are of the mindset that they are in some way "superior" to everyone else, be it due to their God, wealth, race, heritage, religion or non- religion, nationality, mental ability, physical ability, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you are alive today, you are equal to everyone else alive.

You see, genetic survival is the only true measure of success in life. (Everything else is icing on the cake, although some icing is known to be fatal.) It's also the reason I plan to do all I can to prepare for (what appears to me to be) this upcoming Y2K induced global disaster.

Throughout human history we have seen the genetic extinction of many family lineages as well as whole species. These extinctions are the direct result of genetic flaws in those families and species. Many will disagree with me saying somehow "chance" played a part. Well, there is no such thing as "chance". What is being called "chance" is nothing other than ignorance of the variables. You see, if you know some, most or all of the variables, you can predict the outcome to some degree of certainty. Should the outcome be life threatening, you take measures to avoid or change the outcome. Should you be unable to alter the outcome, you proactively prepare to deal with it, should it manifest as predicted.

This is exactly why the dinosaurs became extinct. They were genetically flawed in that they were unable to develop the mental ability (due to genetic limitations resulting in development of small brains) to explore anything beyond their immediate environment of earth. This lack of ability eventually resulted in them being wiped from the face of the earth by a surprise cataclysmic event they were unaware of and unable to prepare for.

Today, most humans respond in much the same way as the dinosaurs did millions of years ago. The only difference between the two is the level of complexity of the situation or event. Most humans know the result of tornados and hurricanes. We have even developed a crude method of predicting them and warning of impending doom, with a good bit of success. Most humans prepare as best they can when these events are forecast to strike near them. Dinosaurs never did any of this. Humans who fail to prepare or take precautions, act like the dinosaurs. Those who do prepare and take proper precautions, act like intelligent humans.

Today, most humans only need to recognize and respond correctly to simplistic cause and effect scenarios to ensure daily survival. We have made life easy and simple. This is why the world population has increased as it has. It's now easy to survive and thrive. This period of "ease of sur-thri-val" is about to end. We are about to enter into a "hostile" environment where nothing is easy anymore. Most wouldn't be able to cope in such an environment. Most don't even want to consider it. Most will become extinct. It's the Law of Nature.

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Good morning, all.

Despite the fact that Klinton and crew use "for the children" for cynical political reasons, that really is the reason for surviving. My three and a half year old wildchild grandson is reason enough to suffer through ANYTHING.

Michael

Airborne all the way, Rangers lead the way

-- michael frazier (mfrazier@ pacific.net), December 05, 1999.

Back to the question...Why survive? Because death sucks and I am not done with life by any stretch of the imagination.

FWIW, John Lennon and MLK are not suitable models for the POST liberal /globalist/technological world that I hope is the aftermath of Y2K. We have had our national sensibilities stuffed to overflowing with this liberal peace and love crap, the drug culture, the Star Trek mentality and other nonsense from the 60's that still plagues us to this day. We must purge this rose colored, goody two shoes mentality from our culture and realize that PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is the cornerstone of the human condition.

-- Irving (irvingf@myremarq.com), December 05, 1999.

GoldReal,

I am one of three siblings who are all childless by choice. One is a psychologist, one a teacher, and one a physician. All three are mentally and physically fit, in my subjective opinion. But, as you say, our choices will result in the present generation being the end of our lineage. However, I would take issue with the conclusion that this is the natural outcome of some genetic flaw or Darwin culling. It is, however, quite curious to me. Which goes to my answer to the question "Far Out" has asked here. Why survive? For me, I can only say that I am one of the most intensely curious people I know. To not survive, and make every effort to assure my survival, would be like closing the book on the most interesting story I've ever read...before knowing how it all turns out. Inconceivable!

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 05, 1999.

I was looking for feedback, and I appreciate the responses. I'm very optimistic about the future, but not so optimistic about myself and my family being here for it. My wife and teenager believe the "three day storm", "bump in the road" scenario, consequently we still live in an upper middle class suburban neighborhood, adjacent to a much larger neighborhood with 40% unemployment. I expect things to get ugly. Living in a small community or in an isolated location is no guarantee of survival, but I believe it greatly increases ones odds.

I believe that I have moved beyond the fear place, accepting the possibility of extinction, and can now shift my focus. I plan to be a member of the "rescue team", rather than cowering on my couch, shotgun in hand, pointed at the front door. Dying in the act of service goes a long way to create a positive dream the next time around.

I want to reiterate my rather profound realization (some may call it a hallucination). We now live in a concenus reality. It's very difficult to change it. Those with strong vision have the most influence. Soon this will all change. Some say the role we play in this concensus reality is determined by our Karma. In 12 years, Karma will cease to exist. The true meaning of Christ died for our sins. We will be free to create our reality based on our love or our fear (which we do to some degree now). It will be our choice. We can start practicing now. What better place than a world filled with despair and confusion.

(I love this site - a thread starts with survival and includes a heated discussion on child support. Just like "real life")

Peace and Love,

Far Out

-- Far Out (lika@reality.chk), December 05, 1999.

Far Out,

I hope my forthcoming answer sounds cogent. I have been battling a viral infection for the last couple of days, and my body temp has been bouncing up and down like a rubber ball. So, while my body temp is in a normal range, I'd like to contribute a few thoughts. This may be rather long but I hope you don't mind.

When I was a child in the 60's, I listened to my grandmothers tell stories. Lots of them were about the Great Depression. They told of little money, being on the verge of bankruptcy, the Dust bowl years, practically anything awful you can imagine. Yet, despite the hardships, they also told me they were the best years of their lives. Why? Even though they had little money, they were "rich" in everything else - friends, faith, community spirit, and most of all, appreciation for the little things that had been taken for granted during the 1920's. Despite the hardships of the depression and the early WWII years, guess what? This nation entered one of its most prosperous periods in its history, after the hell that was experienced.

I choose to survive because if America needs to start over from scratch, I want to have a chance to shape that history. I would much rather live knowing I could leave this life in a better way for my daughter and her descendants than to give up without knowing what I could do to make the future years better. The generations that were shaped by the depression became "The Greatest Generation" according to Tom Brokaw's book. I believe our children and grandchildren have the chance to become the next "Greatest Generation" of the 21st century. To think that this is possible gives me hope. Yes that's right - HOPE!

No doubt about it - the senarios predicted here are very pessimistic. However, I think alot of the posters on this forum would admit they are also optimists. If we have to build up America again from the ground up, we also have the opportunity to reinstill some of the values that have been lost.

I like to think that maybe some of the children of those who post on this forum - our descendants - will shape America in the next century in new and positive ways. Maybe some will run for political office - and restore some integrity to it by becoming true "public servants" - those who enter the political arena to work for the benefit of the nation as a whole, not just their own interests. I think there is a real chance of this happening. And our nation will be better for it. But this has NO chance of happening unless we have the determination, will and spirit to MAKE it happen.

No one really knows what is going to happen in 2000. We will probably suffer through some real pain. America has never been very good at learning the lessons from her history; unfortunately, we seem to have to re-learn them over and over again. But, once the lessons are learned, we seem to be a stronger and better nation.

I am not looking forward to next year. Yet, I don't dread it either. In the past month, I have experienced a sense of peace I have not known before in my life. Do I want to die, if it comes down to that? NO! I wish to live. I am not looking forward to the pain our nation will have in the next year, or maybe even the next decade. When all is said and done, however, I know I've prepped all I can at this point and I've done everything that is in my power to control things I can control. My husband is a member of AA: we have a saying in AA. One day at a time. So, that's what we will do. Live one day, one moment, at a time. Do you know the serenity prayer? God grant me the courage to change the things I can, the ability to accept the things I can't change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

I hope everyone on this forum can experience a sense of peace also as the new year begins.

My e-mail is real. Respond if you want to do so. Hope this made sense.

-- luann (flataufm@hutchtel.net), December 05, 1999.

I work with the issues surrounding threatened and endangered species in my work. I think the whole point is that in our era, man seems to have reached a level where he can impact the environment to such a severe degree that it changes more dramatically and for a greater span of time before recovery than ever before. It exceeds many species resilliency and ability to adapt, as well as the normal frequency of mutation that provides a genetic opportunity for new survival responses.

The folowing illustrates how man's activity can affect genetic survival, but at a pace that permits survival: Historically, chinook fry have out-migrated in June. Irrigation season starts in May. This has altered natural selection so that late outmigrators don't survive as well as early ones. Consequently, local stocks now leave the system earlier and return earlier than historical records would indicate.

The following illustrates how one of man's activities has destroyed the genetic resilliency of a species: We took slamon and steelhead from various watersheds and transplanted them around the west. Our local fish had a genetic immunity to a local bacteria. Others did not. Mixing the genetics through inbreeding cause weakened stocks. A very big proportion of fish now die of the bacterium before leaving the system. Imagine what diversion of our water to southern california might do to their fish stocks?

I don't buy the gentic argument. Change occurs too quickly now for the natural process called the "coadaptive gene complex" to function in man. Also, we rely on technology and not innate genetic features for successful survival.

****

I, too, have this feeling that life has been a school preparing me for work I am meant to do that is yet ahead of me. I hope it is teaching skills and carrying forward a culture to those who will follow. Each of us builds on a foundation of millions of years of experience before us passed through our culture. Each of us has the capacity to preserve a piece of that cumulative experience for those who will follow. In difficult times, great chunks of culture may vanish with the decimation of a generation. This is an opportunity to preserve our finest and our best and leave the rest in the past. Hard to do under great stress and challenge.

Perhaps it is a case of "cultural Darwinism." What are we as a people? Will we refuse to "go on" without our technology and conveniences? Is that what makes life worth living in our cultural mindset?

My "purpose" may be that this celtic ditty I often whistle will cease to be in man's memory if I am not here to whistle it.

-- marsh (marsh@sisqtel.net), December 05, 1999.

SOMEBODY has to survive. Why should we let all the survivors be DORKS?

-- Liz Pavek (lizpavek@hotmail.com), December 05, 1999.

What is incredible, when you think about it, is that life and the reasons for life is being compared to our level of comfort! If the comfort level is not high enough, then there is no reason to live. Give me a break! Go talk to (if you could) some citizens in third world countries and ask them why they just dont commit suicide since they live so far below the acceptable American standard of living. Life is NOT measured by creature comforts - but try telling that to an American.

Far Out - you sound like youve smoked too much pot. There isnt going to be any Golden Age or New Age or Gotham City. Turn off the movie channel and get a real life! Life is going on around you here and now, moment by moment and to live in a fantasy land as you described is appalling and a disturbing proof of Americas incredible apathy.

Life as it exists in reality (not in fantasy) should be embraced for what it is, for its ups and its down, for its good and its bad, for its rich and its poor. Life is not to be measure in material things or creature comforts and technological marvels or its great advances in science or medicine or culture or Hollywood movies or anything like that. Life is measured by how YOU live it. Living behind the boob tube is hardly a life WORTH living.

Its a sad realization that the world in general doesnt give a shit if you live or die, if your rich or poor, if you happy or sad or if you depressed and suicidal. Check out from this life and the world goes on, never even noticing your departure. Thats a sad fact. The point is, only you can make a difference to this world, even in some small, tiny and immeasurable way. Even if the ONLY difference you EVER make is in your own SELF, fine. Do something that MATTERS. Make your life count for more then spouting off sports scores or identifying your favorite movie star. It is your choice to either live your life with whatever happens, whatever events come your way with a desire for the very life youve been given or to squander it all away with stupid and meaningless fantasies.

It never ceases to amaze me that we all wish for a better future - but we wont pay the PERSONAL price to get there. We hope it will somehow magically happen for us without any involvement on our part. This is the great apathy of America. No personal ACCOUNTABILITY for our actions and INACTIONS and no personal RESPONSIBILITY. Just because you cant have and dont get what we want, we create fantasy lives, living in a dream world created by the fabricators of propaganda and fiction. Now THAT is an empty useless and pointless life.

Believe in SOMETHING and DO SOMETHING to make your life MATTER HERE AND NOW, not in some fantasy future tense, wishing empty handed for something you dont have. Pick something you believe in and then involve yourself to live by its dictates and requirements and live YOUR LIFE, not some Hollywood movie production.

In the End, you will answer for yourself. This is an absolute fact and what will your answer be? That your yearned for a future - but never lifted a finger to change the present? That you were overcome by events and circumstances and were too preoccupied by the present to believe in a future? That you had no control over any of it and life just happened? BULLSHIT. Embrace your goals, however Far Out they may actually be and then embrace the LIFE that the struggle for your goals have created.

Even assuming Y2K is devastating on life as we know it, SO WHAT? What EXACTLY are we going to be giving up? Some creature comforts? A dead end 9-5 job that does absolutely NOTHING to further your real purpose and meaning for existence on this planet? A materialistic culture based upon blatant greed and consumption? A society that is receives its gratification from moral depravity and vile behavior?

I hope Y2K causes a MAJOR shakeup in this country. What I see and what I witness each and every day is total crap and its about time people WOKE UP and realized that what we have today as a culture and as a society is mostly BULLSHIT. Fantasy lives never waking up to the reality of day to day existence and what life really is and what it has to offer. I am painfully aware of how much suffering may result from Y2K, but I cannot allow such thoughts to rule my own decisions about my life. My life will be lived not according to the events that may overtake me, but according to what I have determined for myself and what I hope to achieve from within. Only then will there be any real happiness and real genuine laughter. Only then is there a life truly worth living.

-- Living Life (not@vailable.net), December 05, 1999.

Interesting question.

Read FarOut's question again. It is extremely insightful.

When and if an "infomagic crash" occurs, we may reemerge into a strange new world and it may be based on where you, individually, are spiritually when passing the Event Horizon. So, it is essential to be spiritually sound at that point. I do differ with FarOut in one point: That there is only one Universe. Therefore, the parallel ones that FarOut speaks of will not exist. Only one will. The rest will dissolve. The difficult part of the situation will be keeping cool when in entering that world.

His conjecture may seem far out, but I believe it to be true; a handful of theoretical physicists would also agree.

An extremely important question is when will the climax point occur. It could occur today, tomorrow, but it will probably occur at a chaotic climax point in the next few of months. It could happen years from now.

I recommend the following for all you that wish to enter the wonderful new paradigm: 1. Be truthful to yourself and others 2. Be selfless, avoid selfishness 3. Do not fear (there is truly nothing to fear but fear itself, the Universe [God] will always be and you will always be grouped with it) 4. Pray for strength

I have a difficult time answering these questions: 1. How do you pass across the Event Horizon without succumbing to external pressures of fear and selfishness? 2. Do you pull a Noah and isolate yourself, your family and provisions and wait out the flood? 3. Can this be done alone? I don't think so. I think it is essential to be grouped with those that you love.

-- Event Horizon (spring@will.come), December 05, 1999.

RUOK,

It's not my place to evaluate your choices in life. Still, no one lives in a vacuum and your choices do impact me and everyone else on this planet, in some way. Therefore, I must deal with your choices, to my benefit.

You are the result of the success of your ancestor's genes. Millions of years of genes being successfully passed on. And now it comes to an end with you. No one's genes are exactly like yours. You are unique. Everyone is unique.

To say it's not a genetic flaw to not have the urge to ensure (as best one can) the survival of one's genes is incorrect. It's nothing short of genetic suicide. Somewhere along the way, your genes got crossed up. Other people's genes didn't.

A few people who can't cope or are disillusioned, commit suicide every day. But they are the exception and not the rule. They do what they determine to be the best for them. However, it just seems foolish to me to make such an irreversible decision in ignorance of what lies ahead for the human species, be it from premature death by suicide or genetic suicide through a conscious choice not to reproduce.

For me, it is not an option to consciously cause the extinction of my genes. If I knew for certain that existence was meaningless, then it wouldn't matter to me. In fact, my view of the meaning of life is to achieve complete knowledge, ability and understanding of all universal possibilities. I personally will most likely never achieve this goal, but my children may.

As I'm sure you are aware, today, there are many new ways to ensure (to some extent) the survival of one's genes. In my opinion, procreation is a successful yet highly inefficient method of achieving this goal. The more knowledge, ability and understanding we gain about our bodies (and our environment), the better we become at ensuring our survival.

Ignorance is eventually fatal. Yes, it's what we don't know that can and will kill us, eventually, unless we continue to learn about ourselves and our environment and apply what we learn towards our genetic survival.

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Is not being separated from the familiar a small death? Does not Y2k have a potential to separate us from the familiar? To the degree we are prepared for death, we are prepared for Y2k. Americans are typically very unprepared to die, even though it's the only sure thing in life (there used to be two - now taxes aren't so sure).

Why survive? For our families. For our "genetic pool". To satisfy our curiosity. For the challenge. It's the responsible thing to do. To fight the good fight. To build a new world based on the Golden Rule. To make ammends for our mistakes. To get a few inches closer to God (Truth, Knowing, Tao, Spirit, etc.). Maybe just for the hell of it.

-- Far Out (lika@reality.chk), December 05, 1999.

My mother wouldn't let us see our dad, but he had to pay child support. Our "mother" and her new boyfriend spent the money going out to eat every weekend and leaving us with babysitters. We had second-hand clothes and weren't taken to the dr or dentist until we were terrible sick or had a huge hole in a tooth (which happened a lot). My dad was bitter and resentful...couldn't prove that she was spending the $$ on herself (my brother and I knew it) and she was in constant violation of his visitation priveledges, yet the court never called her on it. This was 1974-1979. It WAS TERRIBLE! Now I know my dad and see him all the time. I am 29 years old. WE LOST A LOT OF YEARS. If bbb's ex truly doesn't let him see the kids and he has visitation priviledges then SHE is in violation of the court orders AS WELL!!!!!!

FATHER'S RIGHTS!!!!!!! (I am a woman, BTW. FATHERS HAVE RIGHTS, TOO.)

preparing, who now has a great relationship w/her loving father

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 05, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

For a shot at being the Lucy for the next 3 million years. Right now, I'm my son's best chance at getting through the calamity to come.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 05, 1999.

Are these really the best reasons--all right, excluding the kids-- that you people can come up with to survive?

If so, maybe you should re-consider why you bother to survive now.

Good grief.

-- 3Diva (suzan@acornworld.net), December 06, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

3Diva: Why don't you tell us what you consider to be a worthwhile reason to live? Or, are you saying there wouldn't be any worthwhile reasons if life got hard?

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 06, 1999.