chimney problem???

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i posted this initially to euy2k and would appreciate any advice someone might have to remedy my situation... i am in a very bad place right now regarding a heat source.

text from post to euy2k this is more about the *lack* of electricity than electricity. but i beg rick's indulgence on this -- i have a *MAJOR* problem. you know it must be if i took the time to find my shift key.

i think i made a mess of it with my fireplace insert.

physics was not exactly one of my stronger subjects so i am not quite sure how to resolve it.

i have two fireplaces -- one on the lower level and one on the floor immediately above it. i chose to have the fireplace insert on the lower floor for a variety of reasons... well it seems as though there is a bend in the flue from the lower level in order to get around the fireplace on the upper level and i am getting all back draft.[the two flues are in the same chimney.]

this problem is exacerbated by the fact that the chimney is not higher than the highest peak on my roof[i live in a contemporary and there are various peaks at various heights.]

my conundrum is if i move the insert into the fireplace above; will that resolve the problem or will i also have to extend the chimney?

this is not only a major expense; it is almost impossible to secure the services of someone capable of doing same at this point in time.

there is some rule that a chimney must be higher than the peak of your roof *UNLESS* it is x amount of feet away from the peak!!!!

i just found this out... 27 days before the rollover.

does anyone have any idea where i could find the formula/rule that determines when the height of the chimney does not necessarily have to be higher due to the amount of distance that the chimney is from the peak?

i can't get anyone in the business to come out to the house as they are all booked up through january due to y2k!!

i have tried to find the data on the net... but so far no luck.

i am really very worried as it is my main source of heat if the electricity doesn't stay up.

i ordered this stove august 1998... it arrived in the middle of december... my dad died the first day that i tried to fire it up... i never looked at it again until this november.

not smart... you are correct. but as i was working with the damn thing when i got the phone call from my mother that my father had fallen over, somehow, i just couldn't deal with it.

-- marianne (uranus@nbn.net), December 05, 1999

Answers

Marianne,

The only thing I know about backdraft is that you have to heat the chimney first to create the vacuum, before lighting the fire, and I've only done this in fireplaces; sorry. Maybe it's an old Southern wives tale, but we light a rolled newspaper and hold it up to the chimney till the wind starts to pull.

I'm sure someone here will have some tips for you. The only thing unclear in your post is where the backdraft is occuring -- do you mean you light the fire on the 1st floor, and the smoke pours out on your second floor? If that is the case, then you might have a birdnest clogging your pipe. We get birds roosting there all the time, and that creates the problem as well...

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 05, 1999.


hokie...

the backdraft occurs on the lower level. this level is underground and has no windows. i tried to start the fire with one piece of paper as you said but it didn't work. smoke poured from every orifice in the fireplace insert.

i paid 2,000 for the insert and it is supposed to be of very good quality. who knows?

when anyone attempts to light this device they start the process by using a small amount to paper... smoke still pours out. after three tries and a house full of smoke it will catch and the fire is perfect.

but several times it refused to catch at all and the smoke was unbearable.

the people that have attempted to start the fire have woodstoves of their own and they say they have never seen such a recalcitrant insert.

i am truly worried.

-- marianne (uranus@nbn.net), December 05, 1999.


Read over the chimney links at the bottom of the page. There is also a massive Q&A section at this site, that you can access if you return to the home page.

Link

If this doesn't answer your question, don't be afraid to e-mail the guy ... He was quite helpful in answering a question for me.

-- John (jh@NotReal.ca), December 05, 1999.


Also, if it turns out that you need to add an air intake to the lower level, you could look into installing a vent like this.

Link

-- John (jh@NotReal.ca), December 05, 1999.


I'd hate to hazard a guess on your particular smoke problem, but I'll recommend an excellent book that will explain a lot about fireplaces, chimneys and heating safety: "Wood Heat" by John Vivian. You can buy a cheap, used copy from Powell's. I just looked it up and they have about 5 copies. You can be reading it while trying to find someone to look at your chimney; who knows, it might keep you from burning your house down.

http://www.powells.com/search/DTSearch/search

-- impala (impala@wild.com), December 05, 1999.



Marianne, your problem is no windows. The only way to start the updraft is by opening a window for a few minutes as the fire starts. Since you have no windows, maybe opening a window upstairs will probably help. Try that and if that does not work, you have to figure a way to put an opening downstairs to the outside to start an updraft. To move the insert to upstairs cannot be done because of the extreme weight of the insert. Good luck!

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), December 05, 1999.

dear Mariann, boy can I relate.I bought my stoves in 98 and april of 99 only to find out we need to reline the chimney.he's scheduled to co me on Dec.28 if it dosn't snow. About your problem...if when you light your basement wood burner the smoke is coming into your other w.burner it's because the smoke is being pulled down the other chimney because it's cold and too close to the other. you need to cap the shorter one..If you lit both at basically same time and created the draft to be drawing both out at the same time it might help. and you do have to light some news paper all by itself to warm up the chimney so to create the draft in the first place.Do you have a fireplace shop around that you could just walk in and talk to them?We had this same situation when we first moved in and it was literally solve by just capping the shorter one.

-- tress (tress59@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

I forgot to tell you to close the damper on the fireplace upstairs,I thought you had a woodburner on upper floor too but must have misunderstood.There should be something like a lever or a handle in your fireplace usually you pull it forward or back to close offdamper and that might help but obviously don't try to start a fire then.Wish I could help you better as I truly feel bad for you.

-- tress (tress59@aol.com), December 05, 1999.

Oregon building code (and I've seen these numbers used by posters in other states, as well:

Flue must extend to a height at least two feet higher than any point within 10 ft.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 05, 1999.


Also check for ANY ventilation fans that may be running ANYWHERE in your house. Things like cloths dryers, range vents, bathroom vents, exhaust fans and the like create a low pressure inside the home. Some bathroom exhaust vents turn on anytime the bathroom light is on. Gas furnaces and water heaters also "pump" air out of the house up their chimneys.

The only way air can get in to equalize the pressure is down the chimney. Also make sure that the chimney damper upstairs is closed. Warm air from the upstairs will rise out the upstairs chimney, again creating a low pressure in the house.

-- Mark (mpmayer@powerway.com), December 05, 1999.



Good advice above on getting an outside air intake into the basement and checking for other appliances that blow air out of the house.

You do not have to cap the shorter pipe, but be sure *both* pipes are clear of the roof by at least the recommendations above, then raise the one from the upstairs device by another two or three feet so they are not the same level. If the chimneys are in the lee of the house during the most common wind flow, and are still below the highest rooftop, it may be a difficult problem to cure. (That's why old houses almost always had the chimneys on the gable end of the house.)

If these fixes don't work, given the late date you may want to try yo get a large propane tank and a vent-free gas heater.

-- Joe (paraflyr@cybernet1.com), December 05, 1999.


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