A Company Press Release tells of a new version of a digital implant device to be used to identify and locate individuals and other items. One specific use would be in e-commerce. Could this be a discriminator? If you don't get the implant, you can't order from whomever...

Remember the CIA definition of Paranoia: An adult response to reality!

I don't like this one bit! But then, I'm just the

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 17, 1999

Answers

Post to the cool thread on this subject:

http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0022FX

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 17, 1999.

Cute name isn't it "Digital Angel." Not scared, just awake and aware and waiting to see how everything plays out. I do feel sorry for those that would be scared because they don't know where they stand, maybe this will help to wake some of them up, but I don't really have a lot of hope in that regard.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

The "no-problem" crowd will embrace this. We will be the "nut case", "Bunker people" and "doom and gloomers" for not accepting this. It has already started, persecution of the Christians!! Jesus said this very thing.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), December 17, 1999.

I tend to believe this is it.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), December 17, 1999.

All I want to know, since I'm one of the "no problem" crowd, is where you get the basis for the Mark Of The Beast theory?

Because let me tell you, if it's from the bible your grossly twisting the story around.

And as far as discrimination goes... well you can't order some things online without a credit card and not everyone can GET a credit card. You guys sure didn't say much about that though do you?

-- (it's@"no problem". is not what I've said), December 17, 1999.

The "no problem" crowd doesn't necessarily mean the same crowd of y2k. It doesn't take a whole lot of wisdom to see the same mentality carried out with the MOTB (Mark of the Beast). The media will probably classify you as a doom and gloomer, bunker mentality, crackpot, if you refuse to accept this. You will be classified as an outcast. Then, you will be killed if you don't accept it. Read your Bible. But ahhh of course, interpretations... A nice weapon which the Antichrist will use (theory only on this part). But we're sooo used to hearing it. My conclusion: If you want to accept this, fine. I won't.

This isn't to suggest that this IS the MOTB, but we know it will be something like it.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), December 17, 1999.

I don't buy biblical prophecy, but I will NOT get one of their damned chips. I am not a member of the herd. You know, if I'm supposed to be a slave, why couldn't I be born stupid enough to not care.

This country is turning into Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. You don't have anything to hide, do you? Why should you mind being tracked and cataloged everywhere you go? This is f***ing sick.

-- Tim the Y2K nut (tmiley@yakko.cs.wmich.edu), December 17, 1999.

Hey, No Problem,

What is the tragedy of not having a credit card? Our own greed is going to be our downfall.

Men once trapped monkeys by putting rice inside a coconut shell or some other container with a hole just large enough to admit the empty hand of the monkey. The monkey would reach in and grab a handful of food. When it couldn't withdraw its hand, it would not drop the goodie in order to gain freedom.

How many people today are willing to drop the goodie (401K, credit card, giant-screen TV, SUV, etc.) in order to live free? So often on this board someone writes in a near panic: "How can I keep all my [goodies] safe through the rollover?"

Survival is taken for granted; but please, sir, can I hang on to my stuff?

Anyone driven by greed can never live free and is an easy target for a scam.

Sorry, I don't usually vent; but I'm getting tired of the whining. 8^(

-- Gypsy (GypsiGold@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

Y2K....World financial ruin......Monies of the world useless....need new sytem.....need to start over.........need new and improved monetary system...........someone send us an Angel.......................

-- CygnusXI (cygnus@black-hole.com), December 17, 1999.

Gypsy, good post.

If this product can make it to market and into application, it will be appalling. If we arrive at a point where commerce cannot be conducted, or employment secured, unless an individual agrees to undergo an invasive procedure, then we have lost not only our rights, but our minds, hearts and souls.

The company, ADS, that has purchased the rights to develop this abomination of technology should be flooded with cries of outrage. I am not a Christian fundamentalist, but, in a country that is predominately Judeo Christian, this technology is deeply threatening and offensive to those beliefs. A corporation so obviously unaware and insensitive to those issues deserves the full impact of public opinion and business failure. Beyond the religious implications, the potential abuse of civil liberties, and the threat to rights of privacy should be more than sufficient to raise a hue and cry.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 17, 1999.

Gypsy,

Shitty post.

Goes to show how jaded you are. DID I SAY THERE WAS A TRAGEDY BY NOT HAVING CREDIT CARDS??? And why are you attacking ME?

And by the way, the little remark about credit cards was qualified by the little prefix I put in, "regarding discrimination"... this means what is so different about being discriminated against by having a computer chip in your body as to having credit cards?

I personally don't have any credit cards, and have very little "stuff" that I can't do without. And can you guess... I don't even have to attend some church to feel good about living a simple life... amazing!! I can actually THINK FOR MYSELF!

So zip it, little sufferer of the Doomsday meme. Your ignorance is showing when you reamrk about me with a prejudiced mind.

-- (no@problems. in my life), December 17, 1999.

RUOK, Thanks!

I once found a Web site offering $250 to anyone who would have the chip inserted. It came with a "reader" that plugged into one's computer, the idea being that the chip could be read and debited or credited simply by laying one's hand on the reader. I didn't keep the URL, but I wonder if it is the same company!

-- Gypsy (GypsiGold@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

I remember the $250 website thing a few months ago, but it turned out to be a hoax. That was my first thought when I read this article, too...it must be a joke! But, it looks legitimate this time. Unbelievable.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 17, 1999.

The chip is real and for sale. I saw it displayed at a trade show in Chicago this year (Scantech 99). It's a small glass pellet that encapsulates an IC chip and a transponder coil. The chip is read/write capable with an RF sensor. Marketed by the company as "bio- compatable." Definitely not a hoax.

-- Roadkill (onthe@infohwy.com), December 17, 1999.

Saw the first commercial on TV concerning these devices. Guy is in a store shoving merchandise into his coat. Looks like he's shoplifting. He walks out of the store and an "invisible" light beam scans his body. A security guard walks up to him and says "Wait, sir." As the guy turns around (the idea is uh-oh, he's busted) the guard says "you forgot your receipt." The guy takes his receipt, smirks, and walks away. The apparent message is that these implanted chips (or smart cards, or transponders) are great conveniences and "cool."

-- rob minor (rbminor@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999.

RUOK makes a compelling point - this shouldn't be a religious issue though it is understandably one for those of us who are Christians. But (big question) do we have a common language for describing WHY such a device is invasive and "wrong" if we don't bring in religious language? Why isn't it just, "hey, if you don't want it, fine. Oh, by the way, so happens you can't shop without it, but that's your prob."

If the "free market" "persuades" consumers that this is "cool", then what?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), December 17, 1999.

Big Dog,

I know lots of people who would see nothing wrong with it and might even see it as a great answer to lost and stolen credit cards.

It will track me wherever I go? [Smirk!] I hope they enjoy the scenery!

It has my medical records? Cool! I might have a heart attack and it could call it in in time for me to get help.

It will have my work history? Ummm, well, I am not sure how I feel about that. . . I mean, well. . . But if it does more good in other areas, Okay!

Only the crooks have to worry, and that is good! Why would you want so much privacy unless you were up to no good?

Sorry, sir, we don't accept cash. So few people use it any more and one never knows what kind of germs may be on it. You really need to go down and get a chip; if it is good enough for our young people in uniform, surely it is good enough for you.

Perhaps someone can add to this list!

-- Gypsy (GypsiGold@aol.com), December 17, 1999.

Bigdog I see the same secular (non-religious) argument against bio-chips as I do against "cookies" and credit cards.

They are an invasion of privacy. You can't control who reads them (cookies) or what they do with the data. But they are so pervasive in our economy, just try going without them. Yes, you can refuse cookies (at least in AOL), but it an incredible nuisance. I tried it for a while, but gave up. Ever try renting a car without a card? You can't and they don't take cash.

Everyone wants to track you and your buying patterns. Yesterday, I went to get a haircut. First thing, the lady asks me for my phone number, punches it in her computer and says "OK, Mr. Roadkill, we can take you now." Try being a totally anonymous consumer for a month in our economy. It is an eye-opener!!!!

I see a day when bio-chips will be required "for your protection". Cash won't be prohibited, but made undesirable. Giving a clerk cash in the not-so-distant future will be looked upon like paying with gold coins are today.

-- roadkill (onthe@info.hwy), December 17, 1999.

There is only ONE verse in the whole Bible that was written to have meaning to the early church, those whom the Book was written to.......the whole Book of Revelation was written about things that would SOON come to pass, and was written figuratively.......

Seems too many of you have a really distorted image of God......one minute you call him a loving father and the next minute you accuse him of only giving an EXTREMELY vague confusing warning about something supposedly so crucial!!

I feel sorry for those of you still caught up in the Gospel of Fear that is a major distortion, a combination of twisted scripture, paganism and Dante's imagination.........

Oh well, that's life!!

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), December 17, 1999.

Sorry, I don't have a link. Try looking in pre-electronic print media, world's biggest best seller of all time.Last book is known commonly as "Revelations", try Chapter 13,verses 16&17, plus Chapter 20, verse 4. FWIW-to anyone who seeks.

on de rock

-- Walter (on de rock@northrock.bm), December 17, 1999.

Very, very interesting comments here, been lurking over the past few days and this post is one I feel I must comment on. I've recognized this type of technology was going to be available, caught me a little by surprise it has evolved into a marketable product this soon though, who would have thunk, eh? Back to my thoughts about this.

When I was growing up, I had the pleasure of spending a great deal of time with my grandmother on my Dad's side. She passed away when I was only 20 years old at the age of 89, some 25 years ago. Being of the generation she was raised in, she had many gems of wisdom to pass on to me. Fortunately, I was a very receptive to her wealth of knowledge. I still miss her.

Not being the most religious person myself (I do believe I will have to answer for my actions in the next life to a Supreme Being of some form, keeps me on the straight and narrow, he, he,) her strong belief in her faith was something I always accepted as a normal way of life.

When she eventual reached the last evening on this world, I had the good fortune to say goodbye. Her last request of me, (No, it wasn't a dying wish) was to ask me to refrain from ever getting a tatoo. Seemed like an easy one to me, only Sailors, outlaw bikers, prison folk and circus people had tatoo's, so I said "sure Gramma, I promise!" Needless to say, I never realized how pressured I'd be to get one over the next four years in the Navy, or how popular they seem to be as "cool" with todays youth. Her whole worry was I would be "marked with the beast" aka "666" that was so important in her religion.

My thought was could this be an extension of that, could the implant that could track our every move, every purchase, and generally a way to keep track of all citizens who want to participate in so called "normal society" not be an unbelievable infringement on what we call freedom. Our habits are being tracked by an uncountable number of corporations and organizations already, from internet cookies, to credit/cash card purchases, to forms and info we fill out all the time. This should be obvious from all the junk mail we receive in both paper and electronic form.

I would think this would be the ultimate way for us all to be tracked on everything we do, would that not, in someway, make big business and government (Obviously, the beast) be their mark? Random thoughts, I guess, but as I read these posts, Gramma came to mind, coinsidence, I think not.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 17, 1999.

On the positive side, there are a number of people who would chip in to buy one for our fearless president...

Many of us would prefer to NOT be monitored, and prefer to make legal transactions without excessive documentation/tracking! If for no other reason, we may be engaged in "trade secret" activities...with exact tracking of places and products purchased, those trade secrets could be reverse engineered.

And no, you don't have to be paranoid to not want CNN to put a camera in your bedroom...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 17, 1999.

There are already a number of people who have received exactly this device. A search of the Net "mark of the beast" will turn up over 1000 sites. I have written a book on this topic and have done a considerable amount of research. Those that do not believe that this is the mark of the beast have not done the research.

-- Author (revelations16@hotmail.com), December 17, 1999.

Hey, when Americans face the horrible turmoils next year, they'll become wretched and desperate for relief. When the MARK is proferred as the ONLY WAY to gain acceptance into the new world system with its promises of FOOD and WATER and OTHER AMENITIES, people will gladly take the stigma. They know that if they don't, they'll continue to suffer. Do you think they want to suffer? Nope. They'll choose the mark of the beast.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), December 17, 1999.

Gypsy,

You, comrade, are a communist nation's wet dream ! Jeez... you scare the bageebas outta me ! Who let this person out ???

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 18, 1999.

Gypsy, and others who may not see the problem with being monitored, and think, as Gypsy does, that "if you're not a crook, what's the prob?".

I am up past my bedtime, so this will have to be a fairly condensed version of all the scary possibilities I can envision, but, just for starters, think about this:

You get your electronic salary cut off for a month. Or your travel "permission". Or lose some other "reward". All because you expressed your views about something that "the government" or whoever is in control of these electronic systems, doesn't want to hear your views about. For instance, maybe you don't like it that your taxes have just been increased. Or the local Planning Office has just told you that the five acre parcel of land you've owned for the last ten years, which you want to build your dream house on, now that you've retired, is now a "non buildable lot" because it is "deer winter range" or in a "Coho Salmon Watershed" or whatever. Believe me, this type of thing is already happening, but "the powers that be" cannot as yet cut off our ability to purchase groceries, or drive our cars, or take the bus, or anything else we now take for granted.

I've been expecting something like this since I saw my first upc scanner, many years ago.

And while those of you who have been hanging around here for the last year or two will know that I am anything but a "believer" in the "good book", I am still kind of chagrined that all the upc's virtually all contain 666 in the bars. It's not hard to figure out, if you look at it, but if someone hasn't seen it, I'll tell you how to decode it. It's not even complicated.

But not tonight. I'm going to bed.

Sweet dreams. Avoid implants. Avoid debit cards.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 18, 1999.