Has anyone here read Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt? Just got done reading it--two days straight. One of the most compelling books I have ever read and I don't read many memoirs.

His descriptions of the poverty he endured as a child gives me hope, at least. I mean, sheesh, if people could live that way their entire lives, I'm more certain we have prepped pretty well. (did that make any sense? It is late and I am tired....)

Looking forward to the comments of anyone who has read it, esp. how it might have made you think about Y2K....

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 19, 1999

Answers

Yes, I've read it. It makes you want to just smack people who complain about THEIR childhood. It's amazing he survived. The movie version comes out soon.

-- smfdoc (smfdoc@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

Yep, it comes out Dec. 22. I am going back and forth on whether to go see it or not. First of all, it irks me when the movie isn't JUST LIKE the book, and that is very hard to do. Secondly, I am afraid it will just depress me further. A compulsive overeater should NEVER read Angela's Ashes! ;-) Seriously, I had a pretty miserable childhood, too, not Irish, not Catholic, but alcoholic father, mentally ill mother, deaths, abuse, neglect, abuse, neglect, abuse, then some more on top of that. Can't say I went around w/terribly infected eyes and fought over scraps of a potato (ech) but we did go hungry a LOT. As an adult I tend to overcompensate, afraid I will again have to go hungry. And yes, my brother and I stole food just as he did in the book. Ya do what you gotta do, I guess.

The book just fascinated me. I told my 8th graders when they are older (b/c it is pretty much R rated as a book) if they are feeling sorry for themselves thinking they have had a lousy life, they ought to read this!

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 19, 1999.

I got about a sixth of the way through very recently and had to and put it down as it was too depressing. My family are all Irish, 7 brothers and sisters, the eldest 5 grew up in Co. Mayo on the west coast- pretty poor but certainly not in Frank's league - I was lucky enough to grow up in London in much better circumstances... I've been all around Ireland many times, usually car touring, camping and b an b'ing during the six week school holidays - the poverty can be awful in Ireland, particularly amongst the Tinkers (Gypsies)... Once y2k is out of the way I'll definitely finish it.

I'm more looking forward to reading his second book about his coming to America and experiences here - I'm sure we'll have a lot in common :o)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 19, 1999.

Yep, 'Tis. It is out now I think.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 19, 1999.

I bought the book but haven't gotten to it yet. I am reading the latest Cussler book. Dirk Pitt is who we need to save the world. Next book is Anne Perry's latest. Then Vinegar Hill, then, The Map of the World, then A Man in Full.....So many books piled up by my bedside.

-- Carol (glear@usa.net), December 19, 1999.

The people of Limerick would not agree with your yank view of McCourt. He is vilified in the pubs there for telling the shame of his poverty. However he speaks the truth. But has taken severe criticism for the dark secrets he revealed concerning his mother and what she had to do in order to provide for his family. If you liked Ashes, then consider Reading in the Dark by Seamus Dunne, written several years ago, and a confessional/biographical forerunner to McCourt. But truly for the best perspective on social chaos and indifference to relief of the suffering, then get thee a copy at the library of The Great Hunger by Cecil Woodham-Smyth. The death toll is still in dispute re: the Irish holocaust but for the news extracts, it is chilling reading. The descriptions of starvaton in Skibbereen in rocky, isolated west Cork will blow your mind. It is a damning indictment of the imperial lion and obese Queen Vickie while typhoid and cholera raged and killed those weakened by hunger. Still shocking to discover by many yanks of Celtic extraction be they Scots or Cath. Irish. The Great Hunger will give you a "big picture" view of why Ireland then fell behind during the industrial revolution, why the Great Depression/WW II further kept it from thriving and why only in the past 10 years has true prosperity finally come to her emerald shores after 150 years. Thanks be to God. Also explains why they are so violently against hormones/ Genetically Modified foods, especially Monsanto's "New Leaf" tm spuds unleashed on a naive Canada. If there is any place on this earth that does not want to play with potatoes ever again, it's that island. Ludicrous to think they would ever be so foolish to again put all their faith into a single crop/variety, esp. one that only responds to an herbicide of Monsanto's making! America, learn from this lesson! Unless we all want to wake up in the post-y2k era of spring 2001 and be forced into the brave new world of corporate farms, our farmers as peasant labor etc. BEWARE! McCourt, Dunne and Woodham- Smyth could all tell you the folly of that logic. Been there, done that...and got on the boat to escape.

-- Doyle Malone (graignamanagh@ireland.com), December 19, 1999.

thank you all & especially Doyle for telling the truth! I teach groups that I bring to Ireland on this issue - not a famine but an ethnic cleansing - there was food, it was just sent out of Ireland. No one knows the story.

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 19, 1999.

Bravo Sherri!!! To Preparing: Ashes was indeed a difficult story, but trust me, the 1840's were much worse. Some families actually survived by cannibalism. A very difficult subject for Ireland to this day, as is any poverty issue. BTW 8th graders are the perfect age for a full Famine Studies Curriculum, now mandated by several states, NJ, CA, IL, NY. Re: harsh childhood factors- same here: dysfunction, weight struggles, self-esteem factors. etc. Best o luck to ye! Stock up on Library books for January soon. God bless.

-- Doyle Malone (graignamanagh@ireland.com), December 19, 1999.

Stock up on books - for sure! Went last week and got $70 worth of used books. I have thousands of other books - partially read, read or not read - been waiting for the time. Looking for a used set of encylopedias - the used bookstore said they usually have no one interested but have had about 20 requests lately. Wonder why..... If we could also preserve the internet!

-- Sheri (wncy2k@nccn.net), December 19, 1999.

Yes, It's a great read. So is his brother's book "A Monk Swimming", by Malachy McCourt. I read Angela's Ashes on the plane from Australia to Ireland last year, and A Monk Swimming on the way back.

I hope you've all read it already, but if not you really should read "the Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck, it's a sort of American version of Angela. The end is simultaneously heart breaking and heart warming.

RonD

-- Ron Davis (rdavis@ozemail.com.au), December 19, 1999.

The movie releases in limited theatres in New York and Los Angeles on Christmas.

-- smfdoc (smfdoc@aol.com), December 19, 1999.

That means if you live in LA or NYC you will have a 5 day window in which to see it.

-- (gene@siskel.ghost), December 20, 1999.

As one whose family has had their fair share of 'Irish suffering', may I issue a gentle warning: Beware of 'Irish self-mockery', particularly of the Irish literary tradition of "an bial bocht" ("the poor mouth").

See this article by Fintan O'Toole, a very respected 'Irish Times' journalist, who attended the opening of the movie in NY: Link

- snip -

Or take the quote from the start of McCourt's book that is also used at the beginning of the film: "When I look back on my childhood, I wonder how my brothers and I managed to survive at all. It was, of course, a miserable childhood: the happy childhood is hardly worth your while. Worse than the ordinary miserable childhood is the miserable Irish childhood, and worse yet is the miserable Irish Catholic childhood."

This is, as that lovely "of course" makes clear, more a send-up of the "miserable Irish Catholic childhood" genre than a genuine effort to put on the poor mouth. Especially if you're Irish, it is a wicked little exercise in self-parody. But in the movie, and I suspect in the minds of many readers outside Ireland, it comes across as a straight description of reality. And, as such, it is an invitation to the creepiest kind of smugness.

- end snip -

-- Risteard Mac Thomais (uachtaran@ireland.com), December 20, 1999.

Sorry - hope the link is better now: Link

-- Risteard Mac Thomais (uachtaran@ireland.com), December 20, 1999.

Sorry, VERY link-challenged this morning: if at first you don't succeed, try, try again (Robert the Bruce): Link

-- Risteard Mac Thomais (uachtaran@ireland.com), December 20, 1999.

Thanks to the Knowledgeable Irish guys for the inside scoop on this - I had no idea that he was so villified in Ireland...

Anyone read his second tomb?

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 20, 1999.

I don't think that he is 'vilified', it's attitudes to his work that are (by some). Another quote from Fintan:

"I don't even begrudge the well-meaning folks from Tokyo to Tallahassee the thrill they get from having a little wallow in the muck of Catholic Ireland. I just think it would be better for them, and for the world at large, if they could face the muck in their own back yards."

('muck in their own back yards' - sounds ike a Y2K prophecy to me!)

-- Risteard Mac Thomais (uachtaran@ireland.com), December 20, 1999.

Widespread American release for movie: Dec. 22. I am seeing it that day. I liked the casting.

I had no idea his brother wrote a book as well. Is it a memoir, too?

The very reason I kept on reading this book was those first few paragraphs. B/c I had such a nightmarish childhood, I find I have a morbid interest in others. And I have only met one other person who has given me a run for my money on my claim of worst childhood ever. McCourt experienced some different things, but all told, we are probably pretty close in degree.

And I like the quote of looking at the muck in your own backyard. Oh, how "Suburb of Dallas I Won't Name", Texas would HATE it if I ever told my tale. Come to think of it, I don't think they would. My story has more to do with the people than the place.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 20, 1999.

BTW, has anyone else wondered if Frank McCourt "gets it"?

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), December 20, 1999.

Hi Preparing,

Yes, Malachy's book is a memoir too, it tells the story of Malachy's time in America, running a bar, smuggling gold, and working as an actor. It's a good read in my opinion, funnier than Angela.

RonD

-- Ron Davis (rdavis@ozemail.com.au), December 21, 1999.