So I'm hearing all this concern about failing power systems, riots, earthquakes, floods, 911 down, and so forth.

Well, FEMA has provided funding to set up neighborhood teams to help out in disasters. I'm almost done with the training, along with my wife and six neighbors. We will be making ourselves available when there are disasters. CERT teachers consider a disaster any emergency which is too big to be handled by normal emergency agencies.

How many of you who claim to be concerned have actually taken this free training? There are more classes starting soon in an area near you.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 19, 1999

Answers

Where is that info concerning classes??

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in less than two weeks.com), December 19, 1999.

At the risk of sounding stupid and, well, I guess negligent, I have to say that I know nothing of this. Can you provide an URL for me to get more information? Since I've been a Y2k gadfly, of sorts, in my area, it would behoove me to put yet some more money and time where my mouf is.

-- Kurt Ayau (Ayau@iwinet.com), December 19, 1999.

LOL! Once again the pollies are better prepared than many doomers.

ALK, we're both FEMA certified NET / CERT team leaders in two cities. We've posted a lot about this excellent program, mostly to zzzzzzs.

The training is superb. We're in earthquake country up here and really appreciate the excellent job the Fire Depts & Police have done training 100s of citizens to help their neighbors and communities.

JoseMiami also is involved with this. Another poster too. Maybe more!

When we've attempted to high-five them on their threads about this, tho, nada response. Oh well. It's a GREAT program!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 19, 1999.

I did! Great program. We took 35 people from our church through it and I am volunteering time at the EOC to help with organization. The program began in LA if I understand correctly and has spread to other parts of the country. Here is the URL for the DADE County version.

http://www.metro-dade.com/oem/CERT%20PAGE.html

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), December 19, 1999.

First I've heard of it. I'd have been thrilled to do it had I known. Ah well...

-- Ludi (ludi@rollin.com), December 19, 1999.

I called San Jose, CA emergency services and tried to enroll, but since I'm not a "resident" they wouldn't let me take the training and become officially "certified."

Go figure.

I live in a different town, that didn't offer CERT training. I was more than willing to drive the distance, but they weren't willing to bend the rules... for Y2K.

Stupid... huh?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

BTW, attended one evening with Ashton & Leska up in Portland, OR and at least learned "triage..." sort'a. Very impressive.

;-D

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 19, 1999.

Mr. "Lloyd," were you merely posting to tweak noses, or were you actually interested in offering information? I'm interested in hearing where I can find info.

-- Kurt Ayau (Ayau@iwinet.com), December 19, 1999.

I hold a butload of FEMA certificates at this time. I took as many of those bad boys as I possibly could. I am now proud to say I know how tell people to shelter in place. Really folks, time distanc and sheltering. Say it to yourself. Breathe the calm that "time distance shelter" can bring to you in a nuclear emergency.

The way I have it figured, if TSHTF they're gonna need some new team players at the old soupline, so why not be a joiner.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), December 19, 1999.

Kurt, happy clicking:

Community Emergency Response Teams (CERT)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 19, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

I took several Red Cross classes and completed a program called Neighborhood Emergency Response Training [NERT] which originated in San Francisco, and focuses mainly on earthquake catastrophies.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), December 20, 1999.

First, it's too late to take the classes and
second I would not like to have my name on
a FEMA list as a potential person that they
could draft in an emergency. FEMA may have
plans that do not fit into your idea of being
a helpful citizen :-'

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 20, 1999.

Most NERT / NET / CERT members jump at the opportunity to help out in a disaster. FEMA assures that it is completely voluntary. We've never been asked to help; teams seem to know when to self-mobilize. If anybody asks us to do anything we feel is wrong, we just say no. In every area in life. Happens frequently in hospice care: Many times the RN or family will ask us to, essentially, murder the patient, and we won't. Since we deal with that all the time, we've become tough 'n experienced at saying "NO" politely and firmly. Or, just quietly NOT doing what they order and keeping silent :-) Whatever is best for the patient.

FEMA could never be nearly as bad as some of the hospice situations we've been in. Everybody has the right to voice and act on their conscience. Just say no and refuse to act against your principles.

The CERT / NET / NERT activation is volunteer status and is so low on the emergency response hierarchy of egos that there will probably never be coercion :-) Yet statistics have time & again shown that rescues during emergencies are at least 80% performed by helpful "civilians."

Yeah! Good program! :-)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1999.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia

Darn, I spent over two minutes searching for the CERT site, then came back here and you'd already posted it. Here it is again:

http://www.fema.gov/emi/cert/

I knew you guys were CERT members. I didn't know that you thought I was a polly. Perhaps compared to you--oh well. I don't consider myself one. Not a doomer either.

Which brings to mind: Ludi, Spider, it's NOT too late. There are classes here beginning every couple of weeks, even though the response hasn't been that great. I'm in a class of only nine people, eight of whom are one "team" and all live more or less next door. I'm really impressed that the trainers are VOLUNTEERING their time (six to eight three hour sessions) for such a small number of people. As a matter of fact, they are doing at least one other class concurrently, on the other side of the county, so we no one has to drive very far. Pretty special people, I'd say.

Some of the trainers are really good teachers. Some are pretty bad, but, what the heck, they aren't paid teachers, so far just firemen and EMT's who care about their community.

Spider, and others, if you want to cop out on being a positive force by using paranoia as an excuse, fine. Maybe you wouldn't have been that good of an asset anyway. Too bad.

Our main focus so far has also been earthquakes, because that is the one thing (other than potential y2k calamities) which is likely to have enough WIDESPREAD impact to cause the normal emergency agencies to be overwhelmed enough to need us. But we've also focused on floods (a not uncommon occurence here on the west coast) wildfire, chemical spills, and search and rescue. And yes, triage. That's the hardest part for most of us.

Diane S. I'm amazed there's no CERT training where you live. Don't you live in San Jose? I remember it's somewhere in the Bay Area...Oops, just reread your post. So you're from AROUND San Jose. Hmm. I do know they want people from their own districts, so everyone can coordinate in a disaster situation. I assume you've looked at the CERT url? I recall that there is at least a mention of how to start a class in your area. Have you contacted the local emergency service types or FEMA about starting one?

Ashton and Leska, a million thanks for doing Hospice work. I've been involved with them twice lately; a father and a father in law. I can't think of anyone, anywhere who deserves more thanks or more respect than you folks who are involved in this program. I personally have not been able to see myself in this capacity. I do make monetary contributions though. Thank you.

By the way; for any doomers who think it's too late. Remember that lots of folks think that the timing of tshtf isn't necessarily right on new years. In fact a lot of very credible people in the electric power field anticipate the worst problems next summer, when the grid and individual companies will be the most severly tested, due to the fact that the most power demands in most parts of the country are caused by air cons.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 20, 1999.

Al K. Lloyd, you are absolutely right! It is NEVER too late to get such practical, useful training. It is NEVER too late to enhance preps. Mental and skill preps are invaluable! And natural disasters keep on happening. 7,000+ dead in Venezuela now from flooding. Know how to save yourself and help your family and neighbors.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1999.

Got alternate warmth? Lookit these temperatures!

12/20/99 -- 10:55 AM

Blizzard roars through North Dakota

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - Blowing snow and icy roads brought travel to a halt today in parts of North Dakota, and wind-chill readings fell to 62 below zero.

Temperatures this morning fell as low as 17 below zero at Minot Air Force Base, where the wind chill was 60 below, the National Weather Service said. Garrison had a temperature of 14 below and a wind chill of minus 62.

South Dakota escaped most of the snow, but subzero temperatures and wind combined to produce wind chills this morning of 57 below at Watertown and 42 below at Huron. Northwestern Minnesota also had wind chills of around 50 below.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1999.

Oops, hard to stay current with these #s: It's now over 10,000 death toll in Venezuela.

In Venezuela, bodies everywhere

Nope, we're never "giving away" our preps. Will rotate, maybe slurp down the amount of soup. But this is now a permanent way of living. Weather happens; earth happens; humanimals make bad things happen :_(

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1999.

A&L

FEMA does have plans in place to recruit
people that are trained for emergencies.
If there is a national emergency you will
not be asked to volunteer, you will be
conscripted.

IMO that the training is well worth while.
Being on FEMA's list is not. If you need
reputable links to these claims I can provide
them. If you would like scanned copies of
news items just send a request by email.

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 20, 1999.

Thanks, spider. We believe you, but think CERT members are unlikely to be forced to do anything. They are a pretty "alternative" and aware group, from what we have seen :-) Almost all of us would be more than willing to help in capacities where we feel qualified and able to render assistance. However, we have not met many sleeple weeples in the program, or people who would blindly follow orders that were harmful to others. No matter who or what the circumstances, we will say "NO" if the orders go against our conscience. Period. Lists, no lists, whatever. Better to die free in God's good graces!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1999.

Spider, I have to tell you, I suspect you are being paranoid. If I'm wrong, please post your links. I'll read them if they aren't Gary North or World Net Daily.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 20, 1999.

A&L

FEMA does have plans in place to recruit people that are trained for emergencies. If there is a national emergency you will not be asked to volunteer, you will be conscripted.

IMO that the training is well worth while. Being on FEMA's list is not. If you need reputable links to these claims I can provide them. If you would like scanned copies of news items just send a request by email.

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), December 20, 1999.

Interesting. My wife and I, along with 90% of the Providence Cooperative are CERT trained. My class was nearly half folks concerned with Y2K. I'd really like to see any URLs you can provide on this, even if they are from Gary North or WorldNet Daily.

Frankly, FEMAs chances of conscripting any of us against our will is about nil unless they're willing to send serious troops to do it and if they could do that why would they need to conscript us? Can't think of a better way to alienate a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to help.

Of course we're also very likely to volunteer since community survival is the reason we all took the training in the first place.

..........Alan.

The Prudent Food Storage FAQ, v3.5

http://www.providenceco-op.com

-- A.T. Hagan (athagan@netscape.net), December 21, 1999.

http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/he adlines/991222/world/afp/30_000_to_50_000_may_have_died_in_Venezuela_s _floods__official.html

Wednesday, December 22 12:45 AM SGT

30,000 to 50,000 may have died in Venezuela's floods: official

CARACAS, Dec 21 (AFP) -

Between 30,000 and 50,000 people may have died in last week's torrential rains in Venezuela, though the exact toll "never will be known," Civil Defense agency chief Angel Rangel told AFP Tuesday.

"Entire villages disappeared, are buried under the mud," he said.

"The exact number of people who died never will be known. We are talking about thousands upon thousands. It could be 30,000 to 50,000," he said.

He mentioned the case of Carmen de Uria, where only about 100 of 3,500 homes were left standing.

The community is located in the small state of Vargas, just outside the capital, which was the worst hit by last week's floods and mudslides. About 50,000 people lived in the state that fronts the Caribbean, and which is home to dozens of sprawling slums perched on fragile hillsides.

On the Caribbean beaches of Vargas, usually popular with Caracas residents, workers prepared to cremate putrefying bodies, as deep mud that covered much of the state made burials virtually impossible, officials said.

"They should be cremating them some time today, on the beach," said Leonardo Pava, a judge who organized mass burials of victims.

At the Caracas South cemetery, military troops readied dozens of graves for the arrival of more bodies.

Thousands of people were still missing and thousands more trapped by mud and high water Tuesday. A massive rescue and relief effort continued, with helicopters and Navy ships evacuating people from the worst affected areas, rescue teams sifting through the rubble, and heavy machinery removing tonnes of mud.

"We will not rest until we have checked every house, every village, by land, by sea and by air," President Hugo Chavez said late Monday, adding that a total of 68,670 people had been rescued so far.

He announced an ambitious plan to give a new start to the victims, many of whom lived in the slums that dot hillsides near Caracas. He said that once the immediate emergency is over, the homeless who are now in shelters, would be given land and assistance to build homes, farms or small businesses.

Chavez, a former paratrooper, said the armed forces and some industrialists had donated land for the ambitious project, and appealed for more donations.

The timing of the tragedy, as the Christmas holidays approach, is particularly unfortunate, said Chavez, urging Venezuelans to open their hearts and their homes to the refugees of nature's wrath.

"The time has come to show that we are all Christians," he said. "Venezuela will live," he said. "The country will survive."

As workers cleared roads to areas that had been cut off for days, and survivors were evacuated from the most ravaged areas, the magnitude of the disaster started to unfold.

The tragedy has also left deep emotional wounds among survivors, who watched disaster strike and kill their loved ones.

Psychologists working with the rescue teams and at emergency shelters fear the deep trauma will only start becoming obvious in coming days, once survivors get over the initial shock.

"There will be nervous breakdowns, feeling of guilt and memories of the loss, which will be made worse at Christmas, a time we usually spend with our families," psychiatrist Humberto Blanco told AFP.

He cited the case of one woman "who broke down as she remembered walking over bodies, smelling the foul smell of putrefaction of bodies, being disoriented and not knowing whether it was divine justice or injustice."

---------------------------------------------------------

Looks like this one may outdo Hurricane Mitch.

Being prepared is smart. Catastrophes happen. The whole point is to make life easier and better and be in a position to help others. Prepared people are the most optimistic! They know they have the power, will, and wherewithall to survive, thrive, and be a plus to their community!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 21, 1999.

Folks, there's even a selfish reason to get CERT training. Our instructor told us that in the big Mexico City earthquake several years ago, volunteers were able to rescue 800 people from the rubble. But 100 of the rescuers died in their effort. To me that seems like a worthwile effort. To the trainer, it did not.

Be that as it may, I believe that if all the rescuers had had CERT training, a lot less than 100 of them would have been killed.

ALK

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), December 22, 1999.