oil/ were toast

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From IEEE CASE BOOK

Equipment Type HVAC Industry Sector ALL PC or Computer based No System Age 6 Application Package Boiler Control System local and remote Description of the Problem Hardware and software How was it Identified Z180 Microprocessors found during physical examination and 2 digit date found when examining code ( assembler ?) What was the Solution Solution not yet known as manufacturer not now in business Consequences for the SYSTEM System Stops Consequences of failure to the BUSINESS Failure would result in no bulk oil supplies to a major works as steam is used to preheat heavy oil for distribution(5 x 10,000 tonne tanks pumped at 50t /hour)

-- richard shockwave (VISSION441@AOL.COM), December 21, 1999

Answers

C'mon Richard,

Spell it out! what does it mean??? Geez!!

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 21, 1999.


Richard

that would be the IEE case book wouldn't it?

And if it isn't could you provide a URL and a reason why this would be a widely used system?

Thanks

-- Brian (imager@home.com), December 21, 1999.


Is this the way it should be interpreted?

Equipment Type: HVAC Industry Sector: ALL PC or Computer based: No System Age: 6 Application Package: Boiler Control System, local and remote Description of the Problem: Hardware and software How was it Identified: Z180 Microprocessors found during physical examination and 2 digit date found when examining code ( assembler ?) What was the Solution: Solution not yet known as manufacturer not now in business Consequences for the SYSTEM: System Stops Consequences of [system] failure to the BUSINESS: Failure would result in no bulk oil supplies to a major works as steam [from boiler] is used to preheat heavy oil for distribution(5 x 10,000 tonne tanks pumped at 50t /hour)

-- (fake@out.com), December 21, 1999.


Trying again:

Equipment Type: HVAC

Industry Sector: ALL

PC or Computer based: No

System Age: 6

Application Package: Boiler Control System, local and remote

Description of the Problem: Hardware and software

How was it Identified: Z180 Microprocessors found during physical examination and 2 digit date found when examining code (assembler?)

What was the Solution: Solution not yet known as manufacturer not now in business

Consequences for the SYSTEM: System Stops

Consequences of [system] failure to the BUSINESS: Failure would result in no bulk oil supplies to a major works, as steam [from boiler] is used to preheat heavy oil for distribution (5 x 10,000 tonne tanks pumped at 50t /hour)

-- (fake@out.com), December 21, 1999.


url please? very interesting indeed.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 21, 1999.


Here's my take:

There's this chip in the system used to heat the oil (making it thin enough to pump) that is an unknown because the mfr is among the missing.

The failure of this chip would mean that the oil (thick like peanut butter) stays where it is, rather than being pumped into the refinery system.

A link would be nice, as would a count of these chips that are currently in use.

-- semper paratus (always@ready.now), December 21, 1999.


http://www.iee.org/2000risk/Casebook/eg-14.htm#TopOfPage

-- merville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), December 21, 1999.

http://www.iee.org/2000risk/Casebook/eg-14.htm#TopOfPage

And if this doesn't work - type it in manually ...

-- merville (merville@globalnet.co.uk), December 21, 1999.


when i had some work done on my heating system this fall, the HVAC guy was a true GI!! he said he had done work in many of the larger govt buildings in Northern VA (just over the border from DC) and felt that alot of the government buildings he had been in were not going to be ready at all because they did not want to spend the money or were not fixing the computer systems that run the building.

-- tt (cuddluppy@nowhere.com), December 21, 1999.

Actually, the casebook says "Application: Package Boiler Control System local and remote". A package boiler a boiler that comes with the valves, controls and safety devices included to simplify installation and minimize cost. The package does not typically include emission monitors, which I've heard have a lot of y2k problems. I am really surprised the basic boiler controls would care about the DATE. The only other time-sensitive controls on the boilers I've dealt with is cycle times in SECONDS for the startup sequence (purging, pilot light confirmation, etc.)

-- worried (cannot_concentrate@work.anymore), December 21, 1999.


very very worriesome. Anymore info on this??????? Oil seems to be the big bugaboo that is coming out these days.

-- More Dinty Moore (dac@ccrtc.com), December 21, 1999.

Sorry folks, I was leaving work and posted in a hurry. The text got jumbled. Seems like a number of you were able to track down the link. If you go into the casebook in depth there are a lot of interesting details on embedded failures. shockwave

http://www.iee.org.uk/2000risk/Casebook/casebook.htm

-- richard shockwave (vission441@aol.com), December 21, 1999.


UHHHhhhh READ folk. This is NOT a refinery system. This is an HVAC system (Oh all right Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning.) What this means is that a LOT of industries use very HEAVY waste type oil (sometimes treated with HCl or another acid) to burn for heat/AC. If the oil temp is allowed to fall below a threshold it sets up to a peanut butter consistency or harder. Can't pump this stuff. Can't burn it. Can't heat the building.

Can you say not enuf coats and writing with mitens suques??

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 22, 1999.

errrr MITTENS (rented the fingers from a cut rate rental shop again.....

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 22, 1999.


Chuck - package boilers are very common in the petrochemical business for process uses as well as building heating. This particular example in the casebook I am pretty sure is referring to a boiler where the steam is used to preheat oil for distribution, not just to heat a building. The point is, there is at least some equipment out there that uses DATES in calculating time intervals that are measured in SECONDS. I don't know how common this is, but it seems easy to fix if you can roll the date back. I just hope that stuff like this has been checked - I used to be the engineer "in charge" of a small package boiler at a petrochemical distribution facility and I probably would have made the assumption that boilers would not use dates unless someone pointed this example out to me. A lot is riding on the awareness level of plant engineers...

From the casebook: "Consequences of failure to the BUSINESS: Failure would result in no bulk oil supplies to a major works as steam is used to preheat heavy oil for distribution(5 x 10,000 tonne tanks pumped at 50t /hour)"

-- worried (cannot_concentrate@work.anymore), December 22, 1999.



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