For only those who are interested, they started spraying Flagstaff again this morning. I looked through high powered binoculars and saw how BIG thoes planes are and the amount of chemicals they are dumping. I don't care what anyone says, this is deliberate spraying. I am concerned that they have picked up the pace just before Y2k. Does anyone have any new information on the chemtrails? I would love to hear from those who are sincerely interested?

-- Just Saw It (justsaw@it.com), December 23, 1999

Answers

I saw them also. My guess is it was a last ditch effort to spray before Y2K hits. The clouds are pretty thick in our area.

-- (trev@erstun.org), December 23, 1999.

Call it what you may, several planes were playing tick tack toe in the air apace over Guntersville, Alabama this morning at 10:00 A.M. leaving ten wide white con trails.

-- Little Red Hen (maggiem@nehp.net), December 23, 1999.

To: You didn't see jack squat-

What difference does it make anymore to try to reason with the likes of you who are so full of arrogance and ignorance and are nothing more than useful idiots for those trying to destroy this country. Do you really think everything just happens by accident? .....and that there aren't elements in our gov't. that feel that bio/chem testing on U.S. citizens is just standard operating procedure? Haven't you heard of the Tuskegee experiment and A-bomb testing on our soldiers? Currently, there's a section in Title 50 that makes provision for bio/chem testing on citizens under certain conditions.

I know, I know....these chemtrails are nothing....just keep thinking that during your next trip to the doctor or pharmacy for help with that next respiratory infection. our soldiers/

-- jb (jb40@hotmail.net), December 23, 1999.

We've had chem-trails here in So. Calif, eastern end, for months and months. Criss-crossing constantly.

Now, that said, is there any connection with the mysterious "flu" epedemic that has been in San Diego and Los Angeles, and now moved to New York City?

Granted, the media (ha-ha) hasn't said much about this, even though it's has been mentioned in passing on a few ocassions, however, everyone knows it's going on. Neighbors have had and do have it, friends in NYC have reported this to me. But, it's being kept under wraps as far as the news is concerned. It's been reported that there are so many coming into hospitals that they are being sent elsewhere, or turned away. The usual, "take two asprin, and call me in the morning."

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), December 23, 1999.

Why is everyone sure this isn't crop spraying? Just asking.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Richard

I live in So. Cal too, on the way to work yesterday heard a blurb on the radio that hospitals in Orange & LA were swamped from all the cases of the flu, and they were asking everyone to go to the clinics instead of the main hospitals. My son and I both got pretty sick about a month ago when I was seeing a lot of what looked exactly like the chemtrail discriptions over Ventura/Oxnard (we have 2 navy bases here too)... haven't seen them in probably 3-4 weeks now. And my son and I are both feeling a lot better, just a little sniffles left.

Curious why the media has been so quiet on this tho, usually they're all over flu outbreaks. Maybe too many other things to report about?

-- C (c@c.com), December 23, 1999.

I don't know what they are but last night my family was out looking at the moon, ya know brightest in 133 years. For the first time my wife and even my father in law saw the planes spraying what ever it is. And they are not contrails. One VERY fast flying plane left a trail behind it that was huge. It started leaving a trail and then it quit, then it started spraying again. Then it quit entirely and kept on flying. If this was a regular contrail wouldn't it maintain a constant trail?

Also the trails stayed in the sky and got larger and larger and sort of drifted off. Even my DGI about Y2K father in law said that it wasn't normal. Say what you will doubter's, but I wish TPTB would come clean with some excuse. Their silence is condeming.

-- ~***~ (~***~@earth.ebe), December 23, 1999.

Please... Stop and think on this one for but a second. If you had to use binoculars that aircraft was WAY up there. If I was spraying something at 30 or 40 thousand feet that I intended to get on the ground, it would never get there in the same area that you could observe the contrail... It would wind up hundreds of miles away from the area it was sprayed BECAUSE the jet stream would carry it. It is simply not possible to spray Flagstaff by flying over Flagstaff and spraying anything at 30 thousand feet plus... Which is precisely where one sees contrail condensation forming out of BOTH engines on a civilian AIRLINER. These are damn AIRLINERS going between AIRPORTS moreover a little work with a COMPASS AND A MAP WILL GIVE YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA WHERE THESE FOLKS ARE HEADED. Spraying operations DO NOT OCCUR AT THOSE ALTITUDES BECAUSE IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTROL WHERE THE STUFF IS GOING TO LAND. It is also possible for an aircraft to make a contrail and then stop making a contrail. All they have to do is climb/descend thru a region of colder or warmer air. And you will see a contrail start and stop.

Worry about REAL things.

-- (...@.......), December 23, 1999.

Just Saw It:

FWIW, I posted this a couple days back. I talked to a friend who was in the Air Force 4 years ago where it was his job to lead a 5 man team to fill the tanks of these C-130's. I told him of my neuromuscular symptoms when the spraying is heavy, and he said those were the same symptoms his men were briefed on for exposure to the hazmat substance they were loading.

He said it was pesticide, and they would spray only when the state asked them to spray. It is his opinion that autopsies on some of these dead birds we've had in VA must have tested positive for that encephalitis outbreak that was in the press in New England, and so VA is trying to prohibit this disease being passed onto us Virginians from misquitoes that feed on these birds.

Certainly I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a bug in Virginia. I live near the water, and the fall is the worst!!! cause usually the bugs are trying to find a way into our nice warm homes.

Don't even see them around street lights or porch lights. Saw one moth maybe 2 weeks ago. NOTHING else.

I don't have any info on whether this encephalitis outbreak is thought to be bio-warfare, and would be interested if anyone else has seen anything suggesting the possibility? Especially given the DNA traces to Western Nile, verses North American strains.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 23, 1999.

I have heard alot about chemtrails in this forum. I have finally seen one today. Crisscross checkerboard pattern, not a thin line but a thick one. I also observed one plane, too far away to identify. How can one plane cover such a large area? At least 20 square miles. And no, there is no crop spraying in my area, plenty of pine trees and woods, and a few small townships. The closest base is Barksdale and this is not a traffic pattern area for commercial planes. All I could hope for was that if it was spraying us with something, that it is for our good....possibly to fight off biological warfare agents?

-- southern~gal (looking@skyward.com), December 23, 1999.

Mara,

They are spraying heavily populated metropolitan areas where no crops are grown for miles and miles.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

Mara:

Crop dusting, and insect control in general - is done at fifty-75 FEET above ground. Dusting is ONLY done in rural areas, flying only over the specific fields the dusters are paid to cover - the planes fly so low they have to climb to get over the telephone poles.

A spotter is at the end of each row (usually has a flag or marker) and the aircraft (small and light - figure 25-35 feet with a prop and dusting gear under the wings or fuselage) is very manuverable with short wings and is very slow. Some are still biplanes....

These are NOT cropdusting patterns.

In urban places like CA, where they do regularly spray for the fruit flies, they use helicopters at 150-300 feet - never lower, but seldom higher because they want the poisons concentrated enough to work. haven't seen crop dusters used in urban areas, but they might. Usually too busy.

Compare this to the 727's (or other high preformance large jets seen leading the chemtrails) flying at estimated patterns of 15,000 - 21,000 feet. Also, the crossing patterns are at the same height - NOT DONE with regular contrails because of the possiblility of collisions....regular air traffic paths are greatly separated in height, and successive jets (in regular air traiffic paths) follow each other, not in parallel paths with their contrails always starting and stopping at the same points.

---...---...---

Yes - the "chemtrails" do spread out - but the ONLY reason to fly square patterns crisscrossing each other is to ensure even distribution of a material: surveillance flights, mapping, geophysical research, radar mapping, etc do NOT require criss-crossing - since the "surveillance footprints" are best (easiest) used if they can be calibrated with the two adjacent flights. We did this using a light place flying over Manhatten to photograph in infrared the streets to look for steam leaks underground.....you loose too much resolution above 5000-12000 feet. It's even worse using aerial photos to map highways and streets if you go higher than 10,000 - unless you have the U-2/SR71 million dollar cameras from the CIA. Even then, criss-crossing flights give you no more information than parallel flights, and take 4 times longer to relate the images.

BUT - criss-crossing flights generate the best uniform distribution of material as it floats gently down.

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 23, 1999.

Floats gently down some two hundred miles down wind. CRAP

-- (...@.......), December 23, 1999.

Unbeliever until recently. I saw them over Yosemite Nat'l Park two Sundays ago. Watched 40+ planes criss cross from e/w and n/s within 45 minutes 10:30am -11:15. From 11:15 maybe 1 plane every 30/45 minutes. Trails different, not as "oily". Parked at 6500' elev. on the road to Badger Pass & south entrance of park. Had binocs, saw united logo on one plane, couldn't make out any others. Many only white, no markings. United's trail fluffy/white, gone in 30 min or so. One 'trail passed in front of the sun and it turned rainbow shimmery like oil on a wet road. Others lasted hours as I pulled over to look many times on the drive home to San Francisco. Sky over Yosemite turned overcast by 2:00 pm from 50+ miles visibility day before and earlier that morning. Took notes, but have not posted info. Work for an investment bank, not really good for career prospects. Didn't think much as I didn't get sick (mostly always healthy) and didn't see any "fallout". Just remembered today, SF's drinking water supply comes from Hetch Hetchey Res. in Yosemite. Now I'm worried. Anyone else report that in the area?

-- CA 4x4 (4x4@my.house), December 23, 1999.

Nope - dispersion rates from 15,000-20,000 feet are perfectly acceptable - under several conditons: if the patterns are "upwind" universally so that the covered area received "enough" to do whatever it is to do - as was seen by successive chemtrail patterns over TX, MS, LA, AR, AL, GA, SC, NC, VA on successive series of days.

2. If the dispersed chemicals are not needed inhigh doses - indictive, but not conclusive evidence, that a biological agent is dispersed. Thus, a vaccine can be effective, but a "medicine" would likely be too smally, too randomly dispersed at ground level - as you indicated.

From 15,000 feet (3 miles) - the fall rate is no more than 3 mph - more likely 1-2 mph. Thus all would "hit" the ground in 1-3 hours. Under calm conditons - as were in effect when sighte here, but unknown elsewhere - the dispersion is no more 5-6 miles sideways, perhaps as much as 10 miles under light winds. The patterns are consistant at 3-5 miles separation from each parallel track - so the uniform coverage (at ground level) is consistent with the height of the airplanes.

Rectangular grids assure the best dispersion under these conditions and assumed fall rate of 1 mph. If the fall rate were higger (faster), you'd need to be closer together between each pass.

Any other comments?

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 23, 1999.

To the omnipresent lawyers...

I'm in no way suggesting United was involved in this. Theirs was normal, used as a" reference point" for the others.

Go sue someone else.

-- CA 4x4 (4x4@my.house), December 23, 1999.

Robert - you have gone nuts. If the material is supposed to be spread to everyone in the US, which is necessary to your idea of a bio agent going wherever the wind aloft takes it, the why the devil don't they just put it in the water supply? Easier, less wasteful, more certain of delivery.

And all that takes is a change of regs by the Dept of Health that requires X to be added to the water supply as a public health measure. Call it a new antiseptic or something. Or just dump it in with the stuff they already add at the factory where they make it.

Thousands of planes with special spray equipment and chemicals would imply HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AIRFRAME AND POWERPLANT MECHANICS, PILOTS, RADAR TECHS, METEROLOGISTS, DESIGN ENGINEERS AND OTHERS IN ON THE CONSPIRACY.

There is no way in hell you could keep that secret. Use a little sense.

And take a ride in a hot air balloon sometime, with no set landing point. Get the pilot to go up and down, and see how the wind changes direction at different altitudes. Delivery by air would be as certain as guessing which kitten will be next to jump out of a basket.

Robert, I know you like conspiracy theories, and I know you like to pull peoples legs. But this theory has nothing to recommend it. I suppose you could say it is full of hot air!

-- Nowaytoday (notatthistime@nope.com), December 25, 1999.

Yesterday heaviest day of spraying over Portland area yet. What did ppl think when they looked at the sky? South of Portland, huge X X X X X X X X. Spectacular sunset, bright orange X X X X X X X X X all over. Got pics in morning & afternoon but didn't take camera out for shopping trip.

Hope Y2K fuel scarcity stops this.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), December 25, 1999.

Hope Y2K fuel scarcity stops this.

It will. That, and the fact that all the pilots will be dead.

-- (its@coming.soon), December 25, 1999.