I apologize for posting this here, but did not know where else to turn. Someone in my G.I. family just gave birth less than a week ago to a baby boy that they had planned for a particular older couple to adopt. Unfortunately, this couple had totally lied about being prepared for Y2K in order to get the baby. They did not get it (the young mother still has it - caught their lies in time), but they are out of the running as potential adoptive parents. The mother is not in a position to care for the child for any time at all, but wants a GI family to adopt it (so will feel secure about it living thru Y2K).

If anyone well-prepared for Y2K is looking for a healthy infant to adopt with GREAT speed, please contact PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com very quickly. Below are the details:

-is blond-haired boy. (yes, has hair already.)

-is quiet child that does not cry much or for no reason.

-is in perfect health (Apgar 9.9).

-Almost 8 lbs. at birth.

-adoption must be an open adoption AS DEFINED BY THE YOUNG MOTHER. (is nothing unreasonable; just, no backtracking/wordbreaking on arrangements will be acceptable; mother has been put through too much already.)

-grandmother will be closely involved in arrangements; she is in 40's, intelligent, rational, good-willed, and goodhearted.

-mother and child cannot afford expenses such as travel/lodging as part of setting up adoption arrangements.

-family must be willing to prove is G.I. (answer questions showing understand dangers of Y2K, must live outside of major urban area, may need to have young biological mother see supplies for herself at late stage of adoption arrangements.)

-adoptive parents should be college-graduates, late 20's to early 40's, Caucasian, Native-born US citizens, financially stable, have no more than 2 other children (fewer preferred), preferably live in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, or N. Illinois.

Serious inquiries to PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com. Thanks.

-- Midwest (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 23, 1999

Answers

If this is true, then the birth mother is an idiot. But probably not -- TROLL ALERT.

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 23, 1999.

Agreed. This is a troll post. Please delete.

-- (sickof@these.trolls), December 23, 1999.

This is not BS!! This is for real! The birth mother is 15, (biological father is also a teenager), in a family that is very GI but is strapped for money for stockpiling. Mother is not mature enough to take care of infant herself - she knows adoption is the only way for the baby to have the best chance at a good life, regardless of Y2K. If you are serious, and want to help, please contact us at the provided E-mail address. If you are just another pointless jerk, then please just go away and post your garbage on one of the other threads.

-- Midwest (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 23, 1999.

There are people in your hometown who would buy out Walmart by dinner time to get such an opportunity. If this is not a troll alert, act on this advice pronto.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), December 23, 1999.

Well, if this is for real, then the whole family is idiots. Ever heard of abortion? Or are you religious idiots? (Of course, it's a little late, now, to get smart.) If you were really GI, you woulda had her get the frickin' abortion. Now you're stuck. Anyone that adopts this genetic strain is an idiot. Idiots!!!

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 23, 1999.

Why not just wait for 9 days and see if you really need "GI" parents?

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

I don't think this is a reasonable request at this point. You have no time to do any sort of background check that is any deeper than putting the kid in a cardboard box outside of a supermarket like a free kitten you are giving away. Being a GI is so damn important, but you are willing to put all these conditions of ethnicity and education and situation in the transaction?

I'm afraid your family has a new baby. Your responsibility now.

****SYSOPS: I question whether this is appropriate for this board, on the grounds of such a hasty give-away of the child potentially endangering the child's welfare. Please delete.

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), December 23, 1999.

You may also want to contact your nearest LDS (Mormon) family center: part of their religion is being prepared. Check the church listings under "Latter Day Saints."

No flames, please. I know some decent LDS members who were quite helpful to us when we first started canning veggies. They saved us from making some costly mistakes.

-- (ladybuckeye_59@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

"If you are just another pointless jerk, then please just go away and post your garbage on one of the other threads."

A, mark, Fire, can't you read? Please only post on this thread if you want to help. The mother cannot do right by the child, and is trying to do what is best for it at this point. If you know anything about Y2K, you have to know that phones and transportation may not work worth a %$# very soon, so waiting is out. An arrangement was made that would take care of everything, but the wonderful background check procedure failed. The whole family would be endangered by keeping it and trying to take care of it now. The list above contains PREFERENCES. Anyone serious, please contact us. Trolls and jerks, please stop breathing.

-- M (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 23, 1999.

Let me give you some advice. I am adopted myself, so I have a pretty good frame of reference.

1) I completely understand the desire to place this child in a loving, well prepared home. However, you cannot accomplish this in 8 days over the internet. You are setting yourself and the child for heartache, if not worse. It may in fact, be illegal.

2) Adoption does not need to occur immediately for the child to bond with the adoptive parents. I was adopted at 3 months of age and consider myself to be a stellar individual (although a few of my DGI friends might take issue with this right now).

3) If the grandmother is able and willing (as you decribe her/yourself), your best option would be to place the child in her temporary custody.

I suggest you immediately buy 3-4 months of formula, baby food, supplies, etc. Continue to buy supplies as supply chain/finances allows. See what unfolds. Look for a loving family over the next few months the RIGHT way. You might check with a lawyer that specializes in this sort of thing.

If you are serious about all of this, I wish you and the family all of the luck in the world. Do the right thing and don't rush into anything. Lay in supplies to the best of your ability. Find someone worthy, and the baby preps can go with the adoptive parents.

Best of luck,

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), December 23, 1999.

While I am too old to start all over again with a baby, I can't sit by and even *think* of a baby in this position.

If the family cannot look after him, I will gladly take him, love him and protect him until either the family is in the postion to look after him or until appropriate adoptive parents can be found.

-- Sheila (sross@bconnex.net), December 23, 1999.

Roland, thank you for your post. "I suggest you immediately buy 3-4 months of formula, baby food, supplies, etc" WE CAN'T! We are broke, with many supplies bought, but other critical stuff still to get (yes, at this late date). If you know anything about Y2K and people preparing for it, you have to know that prepared GIs are few and far between. It has to happen now, or it probably won't. We may well be limited to the people within some kind of walking distance, and hardly any of them (there aren't many people that near, as we planned) are preparing (if they are looking for an infant to adopt). This is all we can figure out to do.

-- M (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 23, 1999.

Best of luck to you Midwest. I wish people would realize that giving a baby in adoption is highly preferable to abortion..and should be applauded, not stigmatized. There are thousands of childless couples who wish everyday for such an opportunity..I hope you find the right ones.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), December 23, 1999.

Midwest,

Is the child with the mother now? Are you affiliated with a church? If I were in this position (my grandchild, so to speak), I would find a loving family within walking distance to "foster" him, go out and buy 30-40 cloth diapers and a good manual breast pump for the birth mom, daily deliveries. MANY babies survive on nothing but breast milk for up to 2 years. Of course after about 3-4 months, you start mashing veggies, fruit, grains, etc. Switch to powdered milk. Basically, use your own preps. Vitamin supplements may be helpful.

Bottom line, these are contigencies you need to plan for. 8 days.

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), December 23, 1999.

A,

Why don't you abort yourself? Idiot.

-- (childless@old.age), December 23, 1999.

I have kids and know how difficult it is to deal with infants. But the truth is the mother is lactating and can feed the baby herself. If her family is GI then nutrition for her will likely be sufficent to also support the infant. She might not be able to raise the baby to adulthood but they (the family) should be able to care for it at least through rollover.

You know people did have babies before electricty...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 23, 1999.

Roland, yes, the child is with the mother. No, we do not have a church connection (moving repeatedly did that in). Besides, ever tried asking people if they are ready for Y2K? They will laugh at you, think you are nuts, or spend all their time with you trying to convince you that Y2K is all in your mind. We do not wish to waste our time with that, there is so little time left.

There are so many expenditures associated with a newborn... Also, our place (in the country) is not that well heated; it will do (barely) for the teenagers and adults, but its heating system has already been overwhelmed a couple of times by the cold temperatures we have just seen in the last week, and there is NO WAY we can afford to get more heating capacity in our place before January. I cannot imagine bringing an infant into this environment, so you see the situation.

-- M (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 23, 1999.

I'm a parent. While I can sympathize with the difficulty and pain the rest of your family are going through, my primary concern is for the baby. I do not think that the baby's welfare will be served by giving him away so hastily, to someone who decides this would be a wonderful thing to do on a whim, or someone who wants a baby so badly that they don't think through their ability to take care of him in a crisis at such short notice.. This sets off a lot of alarm bells.

Maybe you can't afford a year's worth of formula, but nursing is free. Her local La Leche League leader or hospital lactation counselor could help the girl to re-lactate if she is drying out. If you need to think about factors that might help the baby stay in the family, this could be one mitigating factor that could save you hundreds of dollars, and help the baby's immune system in a trying time.

If there is a crisis for Y2k, this is the first and foremost thing we wil all learn: We made some plans. And not everything went the way we planned for.

You're just learning that ahead of the curve.

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Firemouse, how can La Leche help if 1) their nearest group is 100 miles away, and 2) if Y2K is over a 7? No driving or calling in that situation. No, we can't afford the formula, and would need it (genetics in our family re likely success at nursing). Did you see my post on the heating situation in our home?

-- M (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 23, 1999.

This poster, Midwest, is a LONG-TIME Forum regular.

This poster has never in any way been a troll. This appears to be a serious plea for help. Please treat this with respect.

-- Sysop (y2ktimebomb2000@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

This poster, Midwest, is a LONG-TIME Forum regular.

This poster has never in any way been a troll. This appears to be a serious plea for help. Please treat this with respect.

-- Sysop (TBY2K@Forum.here), December 23, 1999.

Dear Midwest,

I can "hear" the frantic reply in your posts. Obviously, you have given a great deal of thought to this "last resort". The only people who I feel might be able to help you in this short amount of time are folks who I really, really prepared for whatever may come.

The only folks I've come across are from the following link:

http://www.webpal.org/ArkTwo/

More than anyone, they seem to have created an environment where loving and caring for a young one such as this might be accepted.

I have no idea of the ramifications of what might have to be done "legally" for an arrangement to be made, but, contact them, they might have a way for this to be done. Hope this helps.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), December 23, 1999.

Midwest, I am considering, and am prep'd... Let me think over night.

-- (AnotherMidwest@person.here), December 23, 1999.

Can a known sysop verify that the above post from Sysop (TBY2K@Forum.here) is legitimate? I don't recognize the sig or address.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 23, 1999.

Everyone involved in this NEEDS to consider the legal aspects and ramifications of this proposal. I know you want to move quickly on this but please, do not disregard this aspect. This could be a red flag to some gung-ho DA or government PTB watching this board. CAUTION !

-- Rob (maxovrdrv51@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

Please delete this "mind that is already sprung" asshole's posts. He would probably criticize the Good Samaritan.

-- Noneofyourbusiness (hundredsofpeople@thinkyouareshitspring.com), December 23, 1999.

If Y2K becomes a 9 or 10, the anti-abortion religious cranks are going to find themselves in deep doo-doo. The excuse that there are plenty of people waiting to adopt, so that abortion is unnecessary is so lame. Maybe your "God" is trying to a woman something if she can't get pregnant. Like she or her sperm donor has got f*ed up genes.

Even you Christians who pump for personal responsibility have no more thought of the consequences of dropping litters than cats, dogs, and rats. Then you expect someone else to bail you out. ABORT! Or deal with the consequences yourself.

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 23, 1999.

Religious Idiots?? Whats the "A" stand for, arshole?

-- JB (noway@jose.com), December 23, 1999.

Midwest, people here are trying to help, but sadly, many are simply trying to explain the difficult truth about your situation. 8 days is simply too short a time to properly evaluate a prospective parent. Roland is right. If you are truly thinking in the best interests of the child, then I'm afraid that keeping him with you is the best option. I understand your heating situation and, with respect to that, all I can suggest is that you arrange it so that the baby has the highest priority for warmth, using whatever means necessary. Adults and teenagers can survive in far harsher conditions than the baby.

With regards to your financial situation, you'll need to beg, borrow, or sell something you have if you need any supplies for the baby. Again, as Roland said, some of your supplies can be readily used for the baby. Other items can be improvised. You can do it, even with limited funds, just as many lesser fortunate families have

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

I do not think this is the right place for this discussion to take place. I suggest it be taken off the board and into private e-mail.

-- FLAME AWAY (blehman202@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

If any GI comes forward and says I will take the baby, there must be demands put on the two breeding people involved. They should demand as part of the adoption procedure that both parents get sterlized so this does not happen again. If they have no problem playing hide the weenie, then they shouldn't have a problem with getting fixed.

-- cut it at the source (cutatthe source@cutatthesourceee.xcom), December 23, 1999.

M -- I emailed you our specs. We're not precisely what you specify, but I told you that in the email. What I left out is that I'm lactating. We're all set up with clothes and baby equipment and I can feed the baby too. The rest is in the email.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 23, 1999.

There is another way. We once were in the position of long-term care for a relative's two small children. Our lawyer said there is a way to avoid adoption court procedures in case the arrangement is not considered to be permanent -- at the time of placement -- and that is a revocable guardianship. This means the mother can revoke the guardianship at any time and for any reason. It doesn't require much legal expense. The girl may WANT her baby back, especially as she's had time to bond with him.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 23, 1999.

Folks,

I know these people (with the baby) PERSONALLY, and they are COMPLETELY LEGIT. NO JOKE.

Feel free to email me for more info.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 23, 1999.

I know these people (with the baby) PERSONALLY, and they are COMPLETELY LEGIT. NO JOKE.

I don't think many here are arguing that the people are not legit. They are pointing out that what they are seeking may indeed be illegal and very possibly harmful to the child. That is, after all, the most important aspect to keep in mi

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

To ***** --

We have no intention of doing anything illegal. This has to be handled within every law, and 8 days may not be enough time to do that. I'm not arguing that. This is a big problem for people who need help, and all I'm doing is trying to help. Relax.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 23, 1999.

We have no intention of doing anything illegal. This has to be handled within every law, and 8 days may not be enough time to do that.

No, it really is not, especially with courts and governmental offices being closed for the holidays. Not to mention the fact that there's no way to classify this as an 'emergency' to get yourself to the top of what is, no doubt, a very long list. The courts will NOT look kindly on ANY reasoning having to do with Y2K, so that eliminates any way to get in sooner. It's great that you are willing to help, but it seems that the best use of their time for the next 8 days is to get what preps they can to help the baby.

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

While we don't qualify (too old, too far away...), many people are willing to take additional children into their family. We just qualified as foster parents, and would take teenagers (what can I say? We like challenges...).

And, yeah, kids sometimes make mistakes...but often are smart enough to not compound them with murder...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), December 23, 1999.

Hey, I thought of something else. Contact me and give me a mail box somewhere and I'll express you some diapers and clothes and baby blankets.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 23, 1999.

To ***

We're not on an adoption waiting list because children have dropped into our lives on a regular basis, and at all ages. We love people, that's all, big ones and little ones. That's the motivation.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 23, 1999.

Don't get your collective undies in a twist. We have offered to take the mother and baby in (we are prepped pretty well) to give them TIME to work things out properly. The grandparents' home is in a remote location, and does not provide adequately (at the moment) for the care and comfort of a newborn.

SO, fallback position is all taken care of, so CALM DOWN. Jeez....

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 23, 1999.

Dennis,

I'm going to hug you big time if we ever meet! :)

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), December 23, 1999.

I hope that those of you who have children understand the plight of those who aren't similarly blessed. We are GI and prepared for about a year's worth of disruptions.

As for PRIVATEONE, it must be really tough on them to risk this much by going public on this forum with their need. If it wasn't a dire need, we probably would not have read anything about this.

As it is, please keep sappy comments about abortion and 'religious fanatics' to yourselves. This family needs support, not criticism. I would hate to be in their shoes at this moment.

I feel for them and my prayers go out for the baby and his family.

-- One of the Pair (PairoDocs@eworld.com), December 23, 1999.

M,

My husband and I will send you the things you need for the baby including one of our kerosene heaters. We can ship things out to you Monday via UPS next day

The email address is real. Feel free to email me privately to make arrangements.

-- LZach (lisa@texasnetworks.com), December 23, 1999.

Although I said 'good-bye for now' days ago, I check in occasionally for a quiet look. I am appalled by this entire thread. While I sympathize with your plight, I question your tactics for seeking help. If you want to help this child, almost every state has a Family Law section in the phone book that lists adoption attorneys. These attorneys have access to people who are waiting to adopt children. Personally, I think contacting Social Services and requesting immediate crisis intervention would be the way to go. You DO NOT hand over a baby to someone whom you've contacted through a discussion group or forum. The adoption process is a thorough process for good reason. It weeds out (usually) those who are not qualified and those who would do harm to a child. I have no judgement on teen-agers who have made questionable decisions regarding their bodies. I do have harsh judgement for adults who don't use all diligence in deciding the fate of this baby.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseyd@silcom.com), December 23, 1999.

Don't get your collective undies in a twist. We have offered to take the mother and baby in (we are prepped pretty well) to give them TIME to work things out properly. The grandparents' home is in a remote location, and does not provide adequately (at the moment) for the care and comfort of a newborn.

That's great. So now there should be no reason for them to rush into adoption without going through the standard legal process or plea for someone on this forum to help them immediately. Anyone here who responds to their situation should, of course, submit to the standard legal process and background checks as they would for any adoption.

SO, fallback position is all taken care of, so CALM DOWN. Jeez....

I think the concerned reactions expressed here were more than justified, given that a child's life was literally hanging in the balance. Making light of these reactions will garner you no favor here. It would be best to simply concentrate on preparations for the child and the mother for the remain

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

Before you go shooting your collecive mouths off, the conception wasn't exactly, um, a WILLING one, if you get my drift. Please do NOT castigate a young girl, who's circumstances you know NOTHING about. And if the mother doesn't believe in abortion, who are YOU to second guess her. That decision is HERS ALONE.

Buncha jackasses.... So much for Christian love and kindness...

Now, feel free to RAVE ON....

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 23, 1999.

Mark, you said:

I think the concerned reactions expressed here were more than justified....

You are correct. The concerned reactions, NOT the FLAMES and self-righteous screaming. That is most certainnly NOT justified, EVER!

People in this situation should be aided, not torn down. Very good example of how horridly hateful our society has become. Doesn't paint a very bright picture for us if Y2K is bad, hmmmm?

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 23, 1999.

Anyone wishing to know what a self-centered, self-righteous "A"sshole looks like; look under "wasted f%#k" in the dictionary. It's his picture, as submitted by his Mom & Dad. Now you know where the anger comes from.

-- Willy (Wonka@thechocolatefactory.com), December 23, 1999.

You are correct. The concerned reactions, NOT the FLAMES and self-righteous screaming. That is most certainnly NOT justified, EVER!

Most of the responses here were concerned reactions and not flames. Still, I don't know what you expected to happen when this type of message was posted here, a message which suggests activities that border on the illegal and that could put an innocent life in danger.

People in this situation should be aided, not torn down.

With that being the case, I don't exactly understand why you didn't simply offer to take the young mother and child in to begin with rather than allow them to offer their child up for adoption to strangers on the internet. That would have avoided all this unpleasantness.

Very good example of how horridly hateful our society has become. Doesn't paint a very bright picture for us if Y2K is bad, hmmmm?

Perhaps not, but your focus should really be not on this forum, but on the preparations you will need to make for the two young and very needy children who will be living with you now and may be for quite a long t

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

Well said, Dennis.

-- LZach (lisa@texasnetworks.com), December 23, 1999.

I don't exactly understand why you didn't simply offer to take the young mother and child in to begin with...

BECAUSE, *I* just found out about all this tonight as well! We are not always privvy to the private matters of our friends, now are we? And THIS is certainly a "sensitive" issue, don't you think?

Jeez...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 23, 1999.

BECAUSE, *I* just found out about all this tonight as well! We are not always privvy to the private matters of our friends, now are we? And THIS is certainly a "sensitive" issue, don't you think?

Jeez...

You really need to can the whole defensiveness attitude. It's not healthy for your new guests. Take a break from this place. Concentrate on the children. They should be your first priority, not flamewars on this forum. ..

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 23, 1999.

Aa-h!...A, Ais,etc.

This whole sad mess shows the wisdom of God's laws. Just think if they were obeyed: No out-of wedlock children, no venereal disease, no stolen goods, no murdered people. God even loves you; you know, the Apostle Paul killed Christians before he was converted on the road to Damascus. Fortunately for this young girl, He can also put her life back together, even after she bought into our present culture's lies. You read something like this and still say we poor humans don't need a Saviour?

And even though this girl erred, she didn't compound it by murdering her child.

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 24, 1999.

Dennis:

I'm sorry I assumed the girl consented to the relationship. That makes it ten times worse, if she didn't.

There is a group here in Michigan called Christian Cradle which has open adoptions. It's too bad that arrangements could not have been made prior to the birth, but these things happen. Christian Cradle pays for the birth mother's hospital stay, clothing for the baby and other necessities and has the names of responsible peole who want to adopt. (Not necessarily GIs.

Our thoughts and prayers are with everyone concerned, especially the mother and child.

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), December 24, 1999.

Gee -- I wonder why my post about "THERE IS NO LONGER ANY NECESSARY CONNECTION BETWEEN SEX AND PROCREATION" was deleted. The kid could have had an abortion if the mother was not a superstitious savage (aka Christian). The mother's stupidity and ignorance has ruined the daughter's life. Christians == dumb/stupid/ignorant cloaked in smugness and self-righteousness.

-- A (A@AisA.com), December 24, 1999.

At the risk of being flamed, and at this late time I could really care less....I shall proceed. Sysops said this appears to be legit, from there this thread went onto everything from forwarding help (which is okay) to all else under the sun...This should have been deleted from the start. After enough folks offered help, and emails were exchanged this should have been gone. This is NO place to debate a child...For goodness sake, I dont say much around here but this is TERRIBLE. I took care of a child and did so for one year. I HAD to go thru a home study be 'approved' and back ground checks, etc...THIS IS NO WAY to help this innocent baby....If you need help, you have gotten many offers....This should end...this is awful and really touches my heart cuz it is to close to home for me. I am downright upset and angry. We delete others, but yet this remains....?????????????? Outrage.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

"A"

Someone is a "superstitios savage" because they believe something other than YOU DO?

Jeez man, I guess the pollies could say that YOU are a "superstitious savage" too! After all, you've prepared for Y2K, something that "they" think is INSANE.

Those living in glass houses should NOT throw stones....

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 24, 1999.

Let me guess, this is another iteration of "Pascal's Wager". Let's see now, who would make the best parents for this kid, the older couple (not sure what this means, when Mom is 15) who have a grip on reality, or do we go with who knows who over the Internet in 8 days - the main criterion being gullibility to millennial hysteria?

Thankfully, even some of the GIs on this thread have a modicum of common sense, correctly pointing out that the baby can manage with Mom just fine for the time being, and making the point that this is a decision that should not be made with undue haste.

In a couple of months the doomers will be gnashing their teeth, bitterly hissing "We have nothing to apologize for! We only took sensible precautions! Nobody knew! Nobody could be sure!". This sad situation puts the lie to their mantra that they are not hurting anyone with their delusion. "If Y2K is just a BITR, nobody will be worse off for having preped". If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, it is only when all of the GIs finally realize that they have been had, will the full cost of this foolishness be tallied.

-- Computer Pro (first_minister@hotmail.com), December 24, 1999.

Midwest, What do you mean by "open" adoption? Does this mean if we only get a BITR mom will want the baby back? I have two kids and would take another in a heart-beat. I could not give it back if mom changed her mind(decided not to keep foster kids for same reason-too much heartbreak). Selfish? Probably, but still a fact. Please PRAY. God will give you a direction. Please let us know.

-- grannyclampett (don'thave@clue.com), December 24, 1999.

Dennis, glad to hear that the contingency plans are in place at present, and that everyone will have a little more time and space to make big decisions.

The offers of help were heartwarming, and you must understand that I know none of you and make no assessment of any of you who offered help. I just want to offer a cautionary tale of the Internet, from my personal experience, when it comes to interacting with strangers, let alone giving your kids to them. It doesn't apply in all situations, and most of my deepest friendships now are with people who live thousands of miles away. But you must not forget this caution:

There were a couple I knew online, from a religious bulletin board. Both were clergy in my faith. This was a board where we dealt deeply in discussion of ethics and spirituality. This couple were ones we could count on for sensible, well-grounded replies about how spirituality interacted with everyday life and behavior. I never in years of almost daily interaction with them saw anything that I would have said indicated anything but the highest level of integrity.

One day I found that the reason the husband had not been on the board was not due to a "sabbatical." Turns out he'd gone to serve a time in jail for pedophilia. I immediately called the wife, who assured me that he was a journalist who'd gotten caught in an Internet sting operation. She said he'd been going to interview someone he met on the Net, and then write about it, just to show how easily it could be done. That in itself was to be his crusading journalist cautionary tale. I believed her, because I'd never had cause to doubt her integrity. She lied.

Later I heard more of the details, from people who had known him face to face. How teens had reported feeling uncomfortable about him, how there had been inappropriate hugs that didn't feel right. I found out what had been in his briefcase when he went for the "interview." It was filled with bondage tools. What people do in their private lives with other consenting adults is one thing, but when I see a journalist opening his briefcase I want to find a pad of paper and a pen.

I would not put a child into the hands of those I didn't know real well in person, or who had not had an objective third party verify their worthiness.

As for the other meanspirited and ugly judgements offered by those here instead of anything remotely constructive -- looks like the modern update is not only that the poor ye shall always have with you, but now we've got Jerry Springer too, and all the Internet their microphone. Ignore them.

A lot of us are in vulnerable situations right now, with a lot of people we have to look after. I hope this works out as best as possible for all concerned. My mom may still be on a respirator in an ICU 100 miles away at rollover, so I know some of those stresses. Your family will be in my prayers, especially the little one who has no control over his situation.

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), December 24, 1999.

Firemouse,

Very well said, and thank you. After this thread got started yesterday, and based on concerns similar to yours, I kept hoping it would get deleted.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), December 24, 1999.

I want to add to the information which has been posted previously. I am the little angel's grandmother and we HAVE dealt with two agencies and already have an attorney that we've been working with. The people we've interviewed passed ALL the legal tests but when it came down to it, my daughter who has to make the final decision was not comfortable that although the couple is perfect in every other way to adopt they simply DON'T GET IT! She has been DGI until the last two months when reality set in. No woman who has carried a child so close to her heart would willingly let her child go with someone she felt was not taking seriously a threat as serious as this one. We have no intention of letting this precious bundle go completely out of our lives. An open adoption by our standards is one that allows the baby to know his birth mother as such, she can visit a few times a year, get photos and the first great-grandchild will know his heritage with gifts from his grandmother and great-grandmother to show that he was loved enough to put him in a situation where he could have the love of two parents who are in the position to keep him safe as well as the love of his birth family. We feel strongly that his adoptive parents will always be his Mommy & Daddy, we only wish to be extended family. No baby can ever have too much love or too many people to care about him.

We had no idea that anyone would send items to help us be able to take care of him. We did not start this thread with any idea other than finding a safe place for our first grandchild. Although this child was not created willingly, my child felt very strongly that abortion was NOT something she could live with. We want the best for him as would any grandparents. Thanks again to all and we will be contacting those that have sent supplies to help us as well as Dennis who has proven to be a true friend and what I would call a TRUE Christian by both his actions and his words.

-- The Grandmother (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 24, 1999.

We have limited access to the Internet over the Christmas holiday and are having difficulty getting back to everyone who has E-mailed us. Please E-mail any message you write us to our friend Dennis Olson as well. The responses from people on this forum have been little miracles we were completely surprised by. Thank you all so much for your help, prayers, and good wishes.

-- The grandfather (aka Midwest) (PRIVATEONE@spinfinder.com), December 24, 1999.

We had no idea that anyone would send items to help us be able to take care of him. We did not start this thread with any idea other than finding a safe place for our first grandchild.

If you were looking for a "safe place," then the last place you should be looking to put him is with a stranger on the internet. Perhaps you still don't realize just how incredibly dangerous your idea was. You could never arrange a legal adoption, "open" or not, in eight days. No matter how well meaning the people here are, you were STILL suggesting an illegal act, one which could have caused irreparable harm to your grandchild. The fact that you do not realize this, even after all that has been said here, should be cause for concer

-- (mark@erasts.org), December 24, 1999.

How could a grandma and grandpa give up their grandchild as if the child was a kitten or a puppy. You all are disgusting and you make me sick. Your treating this child as of it your next move was to gas it. You are sick people, and if you can afford a computer or even access to one, you can afford to take care of your own. Your the lowest as low comes. I hope someone finds out who you people are and reports you to CPS or to the authorities. Please print out this thread and take it with you to the authorities. I'm praying that this is only a scam, and before you send any money or goods out, check out the people. Find out where they live, and talk to the authorities. I smell a Stitt Family in action here.

-- I smells a rat (smeelsarat@smellsarattt.xcom), December 24, 1999.

Dear Midwest (grandma and grandpa)

I sent you several private emails. I included my home phone and address. Please respond. If you did not get them please e-mail me back. Address is real.

-- luann (flatuafm@hutchtel.net), December 25, 1999.

What ever happend with this adoption?????

-- (I'm@pol.ly), January 05, 2000.

So what happened to the baby and how much money did Dennis Olson collect?

-- memory lane (memorylane@memmory.zap), October 26, 2004.