There seems to be a very destructive element out there attacking Y2K writers/activists; i.e., Michael Hyatt, Karen Anderson, and many others.

Go checkout a strange website www.AmericanWasteland.com that was referred to on a previous post. There is a very weird, accusing document posted on this site concerning Michael and Karen.

In addition, it seems Michael Hyatt's site has been hacked or has crashed. (Perhaps by now it is back up.)

I went to Karen Anderson's website. Under "Personal" in the Discussion Group listing, I found that they have had a very divisive individual with the stolen/borrowed handle of a respected poster named BlueBird. "BlueBird's" sister claimed BlueBird has psychiatric problems. Karen has a registration system; however, these things can probably be navigated around by knowledgeable people.

The fact that we, the diehard TB2000 posters, in addition to Karen's and Michael's boards, have not folded our tents and slunk into the new millennium mist is perhaps giving TPTB a bit of grief. Because if these very public networks stay intact and are not dicredited, a venue of free speech will remain open to the average citizen at large.

Are these people, the disrupters, really the isolated crazies they want us to think they are, or is this a co-ordinated effort of some kind? I seem to sense a lot of similarities.

Anyway, I am beginning to smell something fishy or ratty, take your pick.

P.S.: Don't bother to flame me. I wear asbestos britches.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), January 13, 2000

Answers

Got any extra pairs of those britches? I could use some ...

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), January 13, 2000.

JoseMiami,

I think perhaps the most important thing Dale Way was trying to say was that we had allowed the media to put far too much emphasis on January 1st as being the "instant" during which everything would fail or not fail.

It would appear, from the preliminary evidence that we've all seen, that we've escaped any catastrophic embedded system failures. As to the possibility that such failures might still occur at some point in the next month or so (or on Feb 29th, etc.), I'm reluctant to offer any predictions this point -- as I'm sure you can appreciate!

What I still don't understand is how all of the businesses and all of the countries that did NOTHING for Y2K remediation managed to avoid any catastrophic Y2K embedded-system failures. As for the toxic-chemical plants in this country, for example, the last data that I saw in the autumn of 1999 was that there were 66,000 sites (according to the Chemical Industrial Safety Board), of which only 15% were Y2K-ready (according to a survey by Texas A&M university). I can imagine that "fail-safe" mechanisms prevented some problems, and I can imagine that manual work-arounds prevented other problems .... but to imagine that we could end up with ZERO life-threatening problems is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Similarly, an exchange of emails with a computer colleague in India indicates that thus far there have been ZERO reports of ANY y2k problems in that country of one billion people. NONE. ZIP. NADA. And this is the country that suffered through Bhopal, so you would think they would be motivated to jump on any problems that happened to pop up.

The business-related problems are there, and we've seen lots of examples on the forum. Perhaps they're somewhat less likely to be squelched because they don't cause immediate death or physical injury to someone -- just a great deal of aggravation, like a missing paycheck, or a double-billing on one's credit card, etc.

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), January 13, 2000.

Forget the britches, total insanity is the best defense.

Kook

-- Y2Kook (Y2Kook@usa.net), January 13, 2000.

Another thread on Michael Hyatt and Karen Anderson: "What was their real motivation?"

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002J31

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), January 13, 2000.

Pollies--they sure do have a bad attitude.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), January 13, 2000.

This is a coordinated effort to keep the public in the dark about Y2K. There have been several extremely serious problems mentioned already on this forum, that it's clear that the spin machine is working overtime to keep them all under wraps. Hyatt's board was hacked, much like Gary North's and this site were earlier. Clearly we're on to something that a lot of people don't want us to know about.

-- (pete@westridge.org), January 13, 2000.

Lurkess, can you post the URL or a link to Karen's site or that page of it? Her Y2K for Women is one of the many bookmarks I cleaned out.

Thanks,

-- greeneyes (greeneyes@work.yuk), January 13, 2000.

There was another y2k board that was hacked to death, can't remember the name.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), January 13, 2000.

Since the site was only down for a few hours and no data was lost or corrupted, it probably wasn't a hack attack. Most hackers deface the site, or do a massive redirection, like in the case of Fred Phelps' website (the site was changed from godhatesfags.com to godLOVESfags.com). In this case, it was probably just a router that went down at whoever hosts Hyatt's site.

-- Hey Lurkess (doome@pollywantacracker.com), January 13, 2000.

Lurkess,

>The fact that we, the diehard TB2000 posters, in addition to Karen's >>and Michael's boards, have not folded our tents and slunk into the >>new millennium mist is perhaps giving TPTB a bit of grief. Because >>if these very public networks stay intact and are not dicredited, a >>venue of free speech will remain open to the average citizen at >>large.

Excellent post and point. Until I was "lucky" enough to stumble across TB2000 several weeks ago, I had despaired of ANY meaningful discourse, unencumbered by political agendas and spin doctoring, on timely issues. Whoever has a mind to can go ahead and flame away, but this forum has been a rejuvenating breath of fresh air to me. Y2K and its long term effects were the original attraction, but even if the whole thing really is a BITR, I am hopeful that we can all continue the wonderful interaction and communication afforded us by this medium.

BTW and a little OT, a great book on the subject of who the real PTB are is entitled "Captains and the Kings" by Taylor Caldwell. If TBTB are successful in their efforts to close off the last true "free speech forums" left to us plain folks, God help us all.

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), January 13, 2000.

Greeneyes,

Try www.Y2KWomen.Com for Karen's site. I used a really old bookmark, but it got me there.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), January 13, 2000.

Some of us (Doomsters) have actually been forced to shrinks for treatment as mentally unstable "disrupters" and "isolated crazies" a la Rocker. HeLP! TrUe sItUaTiON/s!! Anyone else?

-- rather (not_say@right_now.com), January 13, 2000.

Thanks for the laugh Ed,Im sure u could use those britches.I apreciate all u have done Ed TY

-- Brad (Fnwyss5@aol.com), January 13, 2000.

Same here Ed. I appreciate you sticking around and commenting on threads from time to time. I am amazed at the anger and venom of individuals looking for someone to blame or ridicule. There seems to be some "millennial maddness" on both sides of this issue with some exteme doomers hoping for a collapse and all the attack pollies pointing fingers and claiming it was a hoax. This whole thing just gets curiouser and curiouser.

Ed, when Dale Way wrote his thesis back in Oct./Nov. I remember you were busy at the time and you were unable to give a reasoned response to his points. Now that we are past New Years, have you given any further thought to his essay? Do you think he is right in saying that the most serious problem will be the admin and accouting software?

If you don't want to wade in and comment right now, I certainly understand. Put on those asbestos britches and keep your fire extinguisher handy! Things do seem to be heating up.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 13, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California My Privacy Page

...if these very public networks stay intact and are not [disredited], a venue of free speech will remain open to the average citizen at large.

Janet Reno Proposes Online Police Squad

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 13, 2000.

Servant- Along with the ability to think quickly; the ability to keep contradictory information in mind simultaneously; the ability to discern the most efficient course of action in a given situation; the ability to grasp conceptual abstracts; the ability to memorize and correlate data quickly; AND the ability to discern patterns from seemingly random and indistinct events are some of the halmarks of genius. (Documented in various books about unusually intelligent people, of which I would name, but it's been years since I was interested in the attributes of genius level intelligence, so the actual names of the books I've read escape me at the moment. Look for titles referring to: "gifted," "exceptional," or books describing intelligence at large). One more: remembering data and information gathered in the past and the ability to bring it forward to present day discussion in a relevant fashion.

-- Aunt PittyPat (PPAT@webtv.net), January 13, 2000.

I tried on a pair of those asbestos britches once.

Next thing you know, I was getting all paranoid about Y2k; worried about massive infrastructure failures, recessions, depressions, marauding bands of bloodthirsty hoodlums, chemtrails, embedded chip failures in my electric shaver, etc.

Theh I took off them britches...and whaddaya know! Sanity returned.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), January 13, 2000.

Ed and Lurkess,

Ed - I share your perplexities. If remediation needed to be done then why have completely unremediated countries had no problems at all? Even more disturbing is the realization that many of the current Y2k glitches may easily have been caused by clumsy remediation efforts.

Was the CIA completely misinformed? Was the IEEE way off the beam? Was the March Senate report a bunch of complete fiction? Maybe the CIA was getting their info from sites like this or GNs. Then those sites took their info from the CIA report and expanded on them in the biggest information circle jerk in history.

I have no idea.

I don't feel any malice or frustration towards those who sounded warnings.

By the same token I don't see sites such as Karen Weber's or TB2000 as the last bastions of free speech and uncensored information. The net is a big place.

I made my decisions to prep based on govt. sites and documents. Those are the sites which need to be accessible to all. Those are the sites that need to be accountable for the information and stats that they present.

-- River Soma (riversoma@aol.com), January 13, 2000.

I have only been visiting this site for about two months - but have serious about y2k since Dec. 98. I don't post much as I don't know much (understatement). I came to learn, and checked out as much info as I possibly could, to be as informed as possible. As a result me and DH moved, and prepped rather seriously. Most of my friends and relatives did not prep at all, and were not the least convinced by my reasons. Has one of them sneered, jeered, flamed or blamed? NONE, except for my father (but he does that anyway!). Not even one "I told you so". So my conclusion is that people who have such anger towards those who predicted lots of failures have deep personal. psychological and spiritual problems.

Pramada

-- pramada (pram108@yahoo.com), January 13, 2000.

Lurkess,

BlueBird is the company name on many of the white alledged UN buses. I saw 2 here in my home town, both white with drivers in camoflague, BlueBird brand. Here is a link to pics online:

http://www.newswatchmagazine.org/whiteunbus.htm

Interesting coincidence.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 13, 2000.

pramada,

You being new to this forum, I'll assume your basic honesty in motivation.

What you don't understand is that there has been a concerted, organized, and deliberate effort on the parts of the Y2k DoomHowlers these past two or three years to create a climate that would further their ends/agendas. Ed Yourdon is a part of that scenario, there is no doubt whatsoever.

Gary North stated with no uncertainty that he wished for the complete collapse of the present order. In front of God and everybody. So did many people on this forum, which forum Mr. Ed established ostensibly "to discuss preparation issues germane to Y2k." What does wishing for the overthrow of the world as we know it have to do "preparing for Y2k?" Yet there were hundreds of such posts on this forum, and the former forum ruler, Mr. Eddie Yourdon, did NADA (i.e. ZERO) to discourage such extremism. His successors, the censors deleters sysops, followed suit. Proof is out there for all to see (has been archived, both by Doomers and Pollies). It will most probably be in public libraries before too long. Will be in Social Science libraries before that.

The Y2k Doom "experts" have taken to saying since rollover, "well the government said there would be problems! Blame them! It wasn't just us!"

The government said there would be problems because people such as Ed Yourdon, Paula Gordon, Leon Kappelman, and their ilk TESTIFIED and ADVISED government Y2k committees to the effect that there WOULD be significant problems. It's all a matter of who ya listen to, huh.

The Y2k Doom gurus are doing their best to claim "no foul" at present. "The government said it too, so that resolves us of any responsibility".

I might like to remind any who might be reading this that there was a HELL of a lot going on about Y2k before the government had a clue. And that there was (and still is) a HELL of a lot of indoctrination that went on, and is still going on, on sites like this one, independent of anything the *government* does.

Another argument being put forth these days is that "oh it's just the internet...people can make up their own minds".

Simple analogy: if someone yells "fire!" in a crowded theater, should we expect all the patrons to (A) calmly, rationally, patiently sit down and analyze (1) the situation (2) the hollerer's credentials (3) what the governmment's stance on this is, or; (B) run like hell?

The implications are obvious.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), January 13, 2000.

Speaking for meself Pro, and as a former Doomer (don't give a rat's ass who believes that or not) -- glad the remediators got the job DONE.

Life will go on.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), January 14, 2000.

Hi all, it's amazing you are all still beating this dead horse. I'm a VP of IT for a large mutli-national company. We have been working on Y2K issues since 1996. Most of the effort went into proving the systems were or were not compliant. Most were. Of the ones that weren't, none were critcal.

The bigest Y2k problem is that a technical issue was turned into a social issue, by people like North and Yourdon. I read some of Yourdons books while in college, in the early 80s, and respected his knowledge. However, his recent views have been nothing but alarmist. It has always been my philosphy that IT professionals must remain calm and level headed during any actual or perceived crisis. Ed didn't, and his career is over, and any shred of credibility he had, in the IT profession is gone.

-- compliant and happy (a_vp@a_big_company.com), January 14, 2000.

Feb. 1999 chat with Ed Yourdon -- Y2K: Are You Prepared?

Ed Yourdon

Y2K: Are You Prepared?

ABCNEWS.com

Feb. 12  What will happen on Jan. 1, 2000? Will the computer glitch known as the millennium bug cause life-support systems to fail and planes to fall out of the sky? We talked to Ed Yourdon, one of the world's leading authorities on software development and author of The New York Times best-seller Time Bomb 2000.

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Moderator at 1:01pm ET

Ed Yourdon now joins us. Welcome.

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Sterling Hill from dialup.mindspring.com at 1:04pm ET Please explain the difference between Y2K ready and Y2K Compliant.

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Ed Yourdon at 1:04pm ET

Everyone is inventing their own definitions for Y2K ready and Y2K compliant. It's important to ask the companies what they mean by these terms since there is no universally accepted definition.

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Brent Larson from mnext.umn.edu at 1:05pm ET

With all the computer technology available, why can't these situations be simulated in the critical environments we hear so much about so we know what is going to happen?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:06pm ET

The difficulty with simulation is that there are so many interconnections between components of any system. So it's impossible, for example, to simulate the behavior of the entire international telecommunications system or the behavior of the entire national power grid.

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nglover from [38.29.63.42], at 1:07pm ET

Don't you think the Y2K problem is really overblown and meant to be a money pit for ignorant people who just don't understand the problem completely?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:07pm ET

No, I don't think it's overblown. There are some areas that have been exaggerated but, in general, it's a potentially very serious problem that has been underappreciated by most people.

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Al Conger from [206.242.150.66], at 1:08pm ET

Does the average person need to make special preparations for Y2K? If so, what?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:10pm ET

The average person needs to assess where he might be vulnerable to Y2K problems and then needs to decide whether to prepare for a disruption of a few days, a few weeks, or a few months. For most people, this would usually involve a modest amount of stockpiling for basic supplies. For example, the Red Cross recommends stockpiling a weeks' worth of food.

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Shedel from [207.4.188.144], at 1:11pm ET

Mr. Yourdon, My big question is this: What do you really think the odds are that the power grid could go down for a significant period of time? In my opinion, this is the one big factor that could lead to a doomsday scenario. Everything else, we'll recover from... eventually.

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Ed Yourdon at 1:11pm ET

Most experts now believe that we will not suffer a nationwide power failure. But we may experience localized power disruptions in various cities, perhaps lasting as long as a few days or a week.

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Dan Campanelli (dkc114@technol from [131.220.59.85], at 1:12pm ET

Mr. Yourdon, Do you believe the fallout from the Y2K situation will be seen before Jan. 1. 2000? I have heard that the markets will take a tumble in the last half of the Year.

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Ed Yourdon at 1:14pm ET

The Wall Street reaction to Y2K will probably depend upon the outcome of certain Y2K "Trigger Dates." These include April 1st (beginning of 1999-2000 fiscal year for New York State and Canada), and July 1st (beginning of 1999-2000 fiscal year for 46 additional states).

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Brett Dalrymple from sugar-land.omnes.net at 1:14pm ET

How have your views on the Y2K problem changed since your book on the subject was published?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:15pm ET

My opinion about Y2K has become more pessimistic since the original publication of my book. The reason is that we have more evidence now that small companies are not preparing for Y2K. Similarly, there is more evidence now that small towns and small countries are not preparing for Y2K.

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Mike McKulka from [144.170.168.203], at 1:16pm ET

After reading the world bank report about non-industrialized nations, and realizing that 3/4 of them will never come close to being Y2K compliant, what are your thoughts on how this will affect the rest of the world and the global economy. How can we support contingency planning for these masses of humanity?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:17pm ET

Most recent studies agree that developing nations are far behind schedule with Y2K. This will almost certainly cause a massive disruption in the global economy. The United Nations discussed this problem in a Y2K Summit Conference on Dec. 11, 1998, but there is no obvious solution to the problem.

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Timothy G. from [146.132.234.8], at 1:18pm ET

Mr. Yourdon, With the number of embedded chips in computer systems estimated as high as 70 billion, only a small percentage of some reportedly will be affected by the millennium bug. But this small percentage is still a very big number. How will these rotten eggs spoil the meal?

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Ed Yourdon at 1: ET

The concern about embedded systems is that they are used to control critical manufacturing processes. It's often difficult to locate and identify the non-compliant embedded systems, and there is often significant delay in obtaining a compliant replacement. Thus, if a problem does occur, it may not be possible to fix it quickly.

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Ray from [198.85.45.138], at 1:20pm ET

Can we take some "comfort" in the fact that the Gartner Group has stated that only 8% of Y2K related problems will occur at the "witching" hour? The rest of the problems are already starting to happen now and will continue to happen well past the year 2000.

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Ed Yourdon at 1:22pm ET

There is some comfort from the statement, because we may have an early warning of Y2K problems that would otherwise have been ignored. And it may give us more time to fix the problems rather than being confronted with a need to fix all the problems at one instant in time.

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Kelly Moore from [209.75.154.110], at 1:22pm ET

What are you planning to do to prepare for Y2K, and what do you suggest families on a strict budget do to prepare?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:24pm ET

I have moved to New Mexico and have installed a solar panel on my roof to generate electricity as well as making many other plans. For families on a tight budget, you need to begin making modest preparations as soon as possible, a little at a time. Buy a little bit of extra food each week and set aside a little bit of extra cash each week.

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Emily Turrettini from zurich.ch.pub-ip.eu.psi.net at 1:26pm ET

Dear Mr. Yourden: I Follow Y2K news daily and I have never come across an article with regard to the automobile industry. I know cars have many embedded chips but not if they have dates in them. Will we be able to open our car doors, use our breaks?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:26pm ET

The vast majority of consumer automobiles should be safe. A few models of high-end sophisticated automobiles may have problems with GPS Navigation Systems and other embedded chips. But most of the problems will occur in industrial vehicles such as buses, fire engines, and heavy duty trucks.

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Amy from atlanta-05-10rs.ga.dial-access.att.net at 1:27pm ET

How likely are we to experience a disruption in the supply of food and gasoline, and to what extent?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:29pm ET

Food disruptions could occur in many different areas. For example, most grocery stores are re-stocked every 72 hours. So if there is a disruption in transportation, that could cause a disruption in availability of groceries. And if there is a disruption in shipping, it could cause a disruption in imported foods. For example, 60% of the fish consumed in this country is imported. Regarding gasoline, there may be disruptions in oil wells, the oil tankers, refineries, and the distribution of refined gasoline to the gasoline stations.

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Inman (thinman@digisys.net) from [205.138.110.159], at 1:30pm ET

Mr. Yourdon: Are the large cities more vulnerable to extended power and other utility problems than the rural areas? If so, how are the police and other agencies gearing up ahead of time to prevent widespread looting? In my opinion, this will be catalyst for the breakdown of society.

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Ed Yourdon at 1:34pm ET

Large cities and rural communities are both vulnerable to power disruptions. However, residents of the suburban or the rural community usually have the option of buying their own generator or providing some form of alternative energy (such as solar panels). Residents of an urban city usually have no control over their basic utilities. A long term disruption in power or water or other basic utilities certainly could lead to civil unrest. There are rumors of plans being made by the National Guard and other government agencies to provide emergency services in the event of a Y2K breakdown, but none of this has been confirmed by government authorities.

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Gary Hansbrough from mix1.sacramento.cw.net at 1:34pm ET

When I talk to computer industry insiders, most of them seem to think Y2K is mostly hype that a lot of people are promoting to make a buck off of. Honestly, how much are you profiting from it and why should I believe this doesn't skew your views on it?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:37pm ET

I am a making no more of a profit for my Y2K activities than I was in the past with my other computer activities. Regarding the question of hype, you should ask why the IRS is spending $1 billion on Y2K repairs. Why is AT&T spending $500 million on Y2K and why is Citibank spending $650 million on Y2K repairs? If Y2K is so simple, why has the federal government budget for Y2K tripled within the past 18 months.

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Arnoldo Rodriguez from [160.94.112.88], at 1:37pm ET

Who is responsible for the Y2K bug? Should we press for further action against them?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:40pm ET

The best history of the Y2K bug was published in an article in the Jan. 1999 of Vanity Fair Magazine. Historically, almost every programmer created Y2K bugs deliberately in the 1960's because we had such limited computer memory available. So the question is not who created the problem, but why we did not start dealing with the problem sooner. The answer is that procrastination is a universal American habit.

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Leslie W. Elaine,AR from [150.208.115.118], at 1:41pm ET

How and why do you think that there is going to be a global economic depression as a worst case scenario?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:43pm ET

We are likely to see failures of some international banking systems. We are likely to see bankruptcies of industrial organizations around the world because of Y2K problems. And we are likely to see problems in air transportation and air shipping which will disrupt global trade.

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Melissa from [205.188.195.26], at 1:44pm ET

Mr. Yourdon, Do you see any real possibility of threat to our national security as a result of Y2K on nuclear tracking devices?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:45pm ET

There are potential threats caused by terrorists who might try to take advantage of Y2K disruptions. And the military has expressed concern about possible Y2K problems in early warning systems. But they express confidence that nuclear weapons themselves will remain safe.

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Karen from [209.240.197.33], at 1:46pm ET

In your opinion what, if anything, should the government be doing differently in the way they are handlng the Y2K problem? Especially with regard to what they are telling the public?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:48pm ET

I believe the government should be much more candid and forthright about potential Y2K problems. And I think the government should be publishing recommended Y2K contingency plans much like the Red Cross has done on their website. Unfortunately, government is likely to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

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Jason Brittain from [216.15.103.34], at 1:49pm ET

Mr. Yourdon: I have read several news stories on the Net about the potential for Y2k nuclear disasters such as nuclear reactor meltdowns and Y2k-triggered nuclear missile launches from around the world. As a software engineer, I see this as a very real possibility, and I worry about it. What (if anything) have you heard about serious government effort to prevent these life-threatening Y2k problems?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:50pm ET

As you might imagine, most of the information about nuclear weapons is highly classified. So we can only hope that military officials have had the common sense to carefully check potential Y2K problems in nuclear weapons.

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Prasad Ram from [4.11.247.69], at 1:51pm ET

Would the Y2K bug affect Bio-electronics, like heart monitors and so on? If so, will the liability to correct fall on the manufacturer? Lastly, how will Y2K bug affect such equipment sold to third world countries? Thanks.

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Ed Yourdon at 1:53pm ET

Most hospitals have discovered that they have hundreds of medical devices that contain embedded systems and each of these must be checked to see whether a Y2K problem might have life-threatening consequences. Pace makers for example, will not stop or explode if they have a Y2K problem, but they might record erroneous information about a patient's heart condition. This could lead to a faulty diagnosis on the part of the doctor.

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michael from [206.148.52.140], at 1:53pm ET

It seems inevitable that some sectors will try to take advantage of a global crisis. Which businesses or people in power do you see benefiting the most in the Y2K fallout?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:55pm ET

Some companies may achieve competitive advantage simply because they are Y2K compliant, while their competitors experience Y2K problems. On a global scale, the United States might gain an advantage because we have taken the Y2K problem more seriously than most other countries around the world.

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Brent Sundberg from kellogg.com at 1:56pm ET

What risk do we have of losing money in the financial institutions at the turn of the century? Are there good alternative havens during that period?

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Ed Yourdon at 1:58pm ET

Of all the industries working on Y2K, the banking and financial industry has the greatest sense of urgency and has made the most progress in achieving Y2K compliance. But there is no absolute guarantee that every bank will be safe, or that the American banking system will remain unaffected by Y2K problems that might occur in international banks. On the other hand, there may be a greater risk caused by panic and bank runs than the risk of actual Y2K problems.

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Dennis Chimelis from [208.225.13.10], at 1:59pm ET

Aren't we creating a potentially dangerous atmosphere by overhyping the so-called Y2K bug? Making the public aware is one thing, causing the public to panic with a run at the bank in 12/99 is quite another.

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Ed Yourdon at 2:01pm ET

There is a fine line between awarenes and panic, and the best way of preventing panic is to provide detailed credible information that can be verified by an independent third party. Unfortunately, none of the banks have provided a detailed description of the state of their Y2K compliance that has been subjected to a third party audit. They are simply asking us to trust their assurances of Y2K progress.

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Moderator at 2:07pm ET

Any final thoughts, Ed?

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Ed Yourdon at 2:08pm ET

I'd like to offer my best wishes for whatever Y2K plans you might be making. For more information, feel free to visit my website at www.yourdon.com.

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Moderator at 2:11pm ET

Thanks for joining us everyone. Sorry we couldn't get to all of your questions ... we had nearly 500 in the queue!

-- (for@the.record), January 14, 2000.