A friend from Montana sent this note to me this morning:

"Two interesting radio and television announcements from Montana just this morning...

"The Asarco Oil Refinery near Helena, Montana exploded during the night, from "unknown causes" and area residents have been evacuated. There were instructions for residents outside the immediate area on how to protect themselves from bad air, etc.

"Also, the Montana State Department of Revenue announced this morning that "the new computer system which was installed in early December and fully expected to be performing perfectly by now, is not performing to expectation. Montana residents' tax refunds will be considerably late in being returned and there are problems in processing many state tax returns. No date for resolution is yet known. "

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), January 25, 2000

Answers

Jim,

Good point -- it didn't occur to me that Asarco would have posted a press release. In any case, I didn't have time to do a lot of research on the matter; I just skimmed down the list of recent threads to see if anyone else had posted anything about Montana. As you can see, lots of other diligent forum-ites tracked down newspaper articles, etc.

As for the issue of its being a smelting operation rather than an oil refinery -- I guess my friend didn't listen closely enough to the radio/TV announcements. She thought she was doing me a favor to pass the info along...

I refrained from claiming that the problems were necessarily Y2K related, but will try to check out the details more carefully next time around.

Thanks, Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), January 25, 2000.

David,

I live in New Mexico, not Arizona -- though I happen to be writing this from New York. I think others have posted some comments on the reasons why western-US oil can't be transported back east so easily. Not having any personal experience in the oil industry, I can't give you a knowledgeable answer.

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), January 25, 2000.

Jim,

That's a good point, and it also had not occurred to me that my posting might have looked like some of the other second-hand and third-hand "my friend's cousin said that her boyfriend's buddy said that..."

As it turns out, my friend is an extremely knowledgeable Y2K person, a personal friend of Jim Lord yadda yadda yadda. I'm sure her mistake was an innocent one, too -- she dashed off the email to me before heading to her office, and I did the same.

But since we tend to jump all over people who post rumors and gossip here on the forum, I certainly deserve to be held to the same standard.

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), January 25, 2000.

Thanks, Ed. Yet another refinery explosion. Were't this many 3 year ago, were there?

I do hope that the pollies here are starting to see the trend.

Any info on how much product this refinery put out? How extensive the damage?

Downstreamer, are you out there?

-- Duke1983 (Duke1983@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

So it looks like "timebomb 2000" was an apt title after all. It is just that no one knew exactly when the little bombs were going to start going off.

-- O Yeah? (worldpage@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Indeed.

I'm thinking it must be a small specialty refinery for asphalt or chemicals. I've never heard of it. I look in my Oil and Gas Journal's refining issue and look on my refinery map its not listed.

-- Downstreamer (downstream@bigfoot.com), January 25, 2000.

Hi all,

The asarco "smelter", in East Helena, is OK.

The fire was nothing unusual, some paper bags caught fire, spread to the roof beams, no one was hurt.

The evacuations were a precautionary measure.

To see more on the plant: http://www.asarco.com/factsheets/ehelena.html

Best Regards,

-- Tom McDowell (bullriver@montana.com), January 25, 2000.

Aloha Ed, Hope you're doing well!!! Here's the story and the link for the refinery fire. I'm looking for the story on the other lead.

Fire at Asarco burns out of control Monday night \ By EVE BYRON and GRANT SASEK, IR Staff Writers

A fire burning out of control at Asarco Monday night sent smoke billowing through the streets of East Helena, prompting health offi cials to warn residents to stay indoors.

The fire began about 6 p.m. in one of the plant's three `` bag houses'' -- four-story struc tures housing equipment that filters air used in the lead smelting process. The bag houses are located just about in the middle of the plant, and the fire was between the ceiling and the roof of the eastern-most bag house, according to Lewis and Clark County Undersheriff Cheryl Liedle.

By 10:15 p.m., no flames were visible and crews were shooting water into and over the burning building. But additional firefighters were being called in as officials worried about the possibility of the blaze spreading. `` We have no idea how it started, at this point,'' Liedle said, her face illuminated by flashing blue and red emergency lights as she watched firefighters scurry about outside the burn ing structure. `` We'll be out here most of the night and into the morning, without question.''

The dust in the bag houses created two prob lems for firefighters -- the potential for an explosion and the possibility that heavy metals in the dust were being carried into East Helena with the smoke from the fire.

Residents living within a mile of the fire were advised to stay inside and to shut down ventilation systems to avoid the thick cloud of smoke that spread over East Helena, said Paul Spengler, Lewis and Clark County Dis aster and Emergency Ser vices Coordinator.

Late Monday, the question of how much threat was posed by the smoke remained unan swered. Spengler said they aren't sure how much dust was carried into the community, but added that air moni toring systems already in place in East Helena may later be able to answer some of those questions.

`` There is a lot of speculation going on,'' Spengler said. `` But right now we just don't have the answers to those health questions.''

If a decision is made by this morning that the situation remains hazardous around the plant, residents will be advised over local radio and television stations, Spengler said.

The location of the fire also posed problems for those try ing to put it out. Liedle said the metal roof on the building made it too hot for firefight ers to approach it from above, and the close proximity of the burning structure to the two other buildings made maneu vering difficult. She was also hesitant to have firefighters enter the bag house because of the danger.

About 50 firefighters wearing air masks worked in shifts in an attempt to minimize exhaustion and exposure to the potentially harmful heavy metals. Still, one man was sent to St. Peter's Hospital for treatment of exhaustion. `` We only let them go in for about half an hour,'' Liedle said. `` If someone gets hurt, we'll contain their turnout gear. We're being real cau tious about this.''

Just about every fire department in the valley -- East Helena, Eastgate, Lake side, West Valley, Baxendale, Birdseye, Lewis and Clark County and the city of Helena -- were paged out to the fire. The Red Cross also was on scene, bringing food and hot drinks to the tired volunteers.

Tuesday, January 25, 2000

Link to story:

http://www.helenair.com/headline/story1.html

-- Carl Jenkins (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Helena, Montana Independent Record

http://www.helenair.com/

Fire at Asarco burns out of control Monday night

http:// www.helenair.com/headline/story1.html

(Cant seem to copy the article).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 25, 2000.

Ah, Thanks Carl.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 25, 2000.

It seems that the oil dominos are beginning to fall. A living example of cascading failures.. oil, gas, kerosene, soon imports to follow and unemployment as those of us who drive long distances for work, are knocked a huge blow.

Ed, please think about writing an editorial to warn people about the implications of the Oil issue. People need to be aware of how this will affect them (long term) and prepare for it. Please think about it.

-- River (Riverwn@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Hey kfj,

Chill out. Try being nice for a day, you might like it.

Thanks for post Ed. =)

-- Dee (T1Colt556@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Hi Ed and all,

In stories such as this, they always seem to state (most likely truthfully-initially) that the cause of the blaze is "unknown."

We rarely ever hear follow-up reports that actually tell the true cause. At some point won't these "unknown" causes become known? The press seems to cover the "hot" topic in a superficial manner, and then move on with no further analysis. It is frustrating!

-- No Polly (nopolly@hotmail.com), January 25, 2000.

Thanks Tom,

NOT OIL!

ASARCO Incorporated is one of the worlds leading integrated producers of copper, as well as a producer of other metals, specialty chemical and aggregates...

Home page...

http://www.asarco.com/ index.html

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 25, 2000.

The fire began about 6 p.m. in one of the plant's three `` bag houses'' -- four-story struc tures housing equipment that filters air used in the lead smelting process.

humm...interesting.

Thanks Ed.

Interesting also about the Dept of Rev tax system. I wonder how many other gov entities use the same or similar systems?

Mike

===================================================================

-- Mike Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Diane,

You're welcome.

The tax story is another to add to the "new systems implemented" file.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/region/20000125_reg01.html

The setbacks are caused by the conversion to a new computer system the department installed in December, Bryson said. She added that the department hasn't notified the public about the delays because staff is working hard to iron out the wrinkles and the delays should only affect people who file their tax returns in January.

Best Regards,

-- Tom McDowell (bullriver@montana.com), January 25, 2000.

Haven't heard much about chemical plant problems to date, as I understand it there are around 55,000 located throughout th US.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), January 25, 2000.

Mr. Yourdon, first let me introduce myself. I'm David Whitelaw from Washington State. I am new to your forum. I understand you are form Arizona. Can you explain to me why we seem to have no shortage of fuel here in the west? Secondly why can't some of our reserve be shipped to the east coast to help them out? I notice our prices have risen but as of yet have seen no shortages or lines. Is this problem only back east? I value your opinion and would like to get your slant on this oil thing. Thankyou

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Mr. Yourdon, first let me introduce myself. I'm David Whitelaw from Washington State. I am new to your forum. I understand you are from Arizona. Can you explain to me why we seem to have no shortage of fuel here in the west? Secondly why can't some of our reserve be shipped to the east coast to help them out? I notice our prices have risen but as of yet have seen no shortages or lines. Is this problem only back east? I value your opinion and would like to get your slant on this oil thing. Thankyou

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Ed,

Before posting this, why didn't you go to the ASARCO web site to confirm the information? I found the site simply by typing ASARCO in Yahoo. You then would have known that your friend in Montana doesn't know the difference between a copper smelter and an oil refinery. It's hard to put faith in your postings if you don't do some simple checking first.

Jim

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), January 25, 2000.

River:

Interesting comments regarding how this situation will affect those who spend a lot time driving to work, visiting clients, et al.

Thank heaven for telecommuting and flexible bosses/clients...at least for this coder. :-)

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), January 25, 2000.

Aha...a fire at a lead smelter, where they refine lead (and probably, other metals, as well...).

On the other problem, it sure sounds like they didn't put in enough testing before installing the system... It makes one wonder how many similar cases are waiting to fail badly...and how long it will take to fix or replace them.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), January 25, 2000.

David, the distribution system in the US is separated into East and West of the Rockies for fairly obvious reasons. Nobody has pipelines through the mountains.

And fuel IS being diverted to the East Coast, it's just it needs to go via Panama, in tankers. Surface transportation over the Rockies isn't economically feasible at this point in the price curve.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 25, 2000.

Ed

Thanks for your quick response. As far as your little mistake goes it was an honest one and the day people quit making mistakes is the day we will have a perfect world.

David Whitelaw

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

Ed,

Thanks for the response. I've seen many "my friend told me" posts here, some of which turn out to be solid information and some which turn out to be wrong. I guess I just expect more from you than other posters in terms of verifying information and I'm glad to see that you've taken the point in the spirit it was intended.

Jim

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), January 25, 2000.

Let's encourage continued posting of ALL problems of any kind, anywhere. Sooner or later even a blind squirrel finds an acorn.

-- ImSo (lame@prepped.com), January 25, 2000.

Agreed. These problems are so serious there's really no time to check them out fully. Just post them on the board and we can deal with the details later.

-- (Steve887@cirstin.org), January 25, 2000.

Ed, Have you or anyone posting obtained any additional information related to the refinery problem in Delaware City? I briefly read something earlier in the day. p.s. We`ve gotten 14" of snow thus far- expecting another 4-6" here in the Northeast Chesapeake region!

-- NoJo (RSKeiper@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

I read in the local paper the Delaware City refinery is up and running. GM Boxwood plant is still re-tooling.

Having set up environmental monitoring on waste discharge, I expected embedded chip failure due to the time/vol calculation. There seems to be a common thread of failure in reactor cooling flow control, refinery flow controls, tank pressurization and pump feedback loops. In the case of the Del City refinery, the sludge from the discharge stack is redirected to storage and additional refining to capture the "last drop". When the flow valves for the sludge line did not close (stuck on last command), the storage tank over pressurized, ruptured and caught fire. The relief system relieves to the head of the transfer pump until the pump burns out (ignition source). The metal refinery bag house has vol/min monitoring. If sensors indicate no flow is in progress, the blower motors run until they freeze up.

We have had small rolling black outs in northern Del. for the last 2 weeks. Nothing long. Medical billing(wife) is getting gummy(her words). Mainframes are slowing down, taking up to 5 mins. to refresh a screen. They have been isolating input to select insurance companies and physicians groups due to corrupt data coming in.

We have 12" snow, state of emergency, up to 40mph winds and tight oil.

-- Surrounded (hiding@thefirststate.com), January 25, 2000.

Valves are closing-safety alarms are not telling the Operators of these plants that anything is wrong. BAG House's have long sleeved Bags in them made of fire resistant material that catch the small particles from the emissions--If the exaust gates would close maybe it could cause a fire or a mini explosion to start the fire at Assarco. In Washington State-valves slammed shut killing millions of Salmon at a hatchery--alarms didn't sound when oxygenator failed. Same thing happened at a Waste water treatment plant in the same state-news said that a pump started to vibrate bad--sounds like back pressure on line and they had to by pass cleaning process and dump raw sewage in the ocean. IT'S HAPPENING-But they wont admit it Y2k that is?????????? jbear <(..)> Northwest Montana

-- D Griffiths (jbear33@webtv.net), January 27, 2000.

ED & COMPANY, GREAT STUFF, ANYONE HEARING ANYTHING ABOUT WELFARE CHECKS? YESTERDAY WAS THEIR FIRST GO AT IT. REMEMBER THEY MADE SURE JANUARY'S WERE DONE AHEAD OF TIME. I GUESS GAS IS MOOT IF OUR EVER INCREASING LOWER-MIDDLE CLASS IS HUNGRY. DON'T SHOOT THE MAILMAN!

-- GREGORY WESTGAARD (GWESTGAARD@INVESTMENTRARITIES.COM), February 02, 2000.

Tampa Electric's Gannon Plant exploded too, however this occurred before Y2K. The cause was human error....ooops no computers here. Seems someone forgot to properly evacuate all the hydrogen coolant from the turbine. The worker who opened it caused a spark and rode a column of flame to his death. Bottom line here is human error may be responsible for the Montana refinery explosion as well. Before this hype about Y2K how many refinery accidents did we have? Did you ever take notice? I'm having trouble with the IRS, but I've always had trouble with them. No surprises here the federal government has always had its head up its ass.

-- Copperhead (Barry5431@email.com), June 05, 2000.