I've been reading lately thet we are too clean, and this is a bad thing for our immune systems. That we need more exposure to germs to stimulate our immune systems and stay healthy. This was brought home to me recently when my dad underwent emergency brain surgery for a brain abcess. I was trying to figure out why he didn't fight off the bacteria, then I started thinking about this concept. He's a very "clean" person, never really exposed to anything and even has been using those 'antibacterial' soaps so popular now. I always worry that being around so much dirt and muck doing homesteading stuff might be bad but now I think that maybe us homesteaders have even one more edge in that we are healthier because we expose ourselves to a greater variety of bacteria and stimulate our immune systems. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Also, my dad is doing pretty well considering.

-- Christine Allen (cfallen00@hotmail.com), February 10, 2000

Answers

Glad to hear that your father is on the mend..must have been quite a scare !!! A word about anti-bacterial "stuff".The real danger of using this around the home or the workplace is that the germs are not stupid and have begun to build up immunity to antibiotics.Germs exposed to small amounts of an antibiotic are capable of building up resistance to it and then when we try to treat a larger infection, we run up against "smart" germs and are faced with a more complex problem than we thought.A good example is the common use of applying an over the counter antibiotic ointment to small cuts to "prevent" infection. Nice idea, except that unless the cut actually starts getting nasty looking, all you are doing is introducing bacteria to the antibiotic and allowing them to get smarter.Same thing when folks demand an antibiotic to treat the common cold.Colds are caused by viruses...viruses are not affected by antibiotics, yet the germs get another chance to "see" them and build up an immunity.So, the danger of being too antiseptic is not only will your immune system be less prepared, but if folks do not stop using antibiotics inapropriately,the germs will begin winning more and more of the game. I've been preaching this in my practice (Nurse Practitioner) for 30 years and just in the last five have been pleased to read more and more about it in the popular magazines, newspapers,etc.I hope more people will stop buying and using unnecessary "antiseptic" cleaners, etc.Soap, water, and good old friction elbow grease removes almost 100% of the germs from any household.(Thanks for the forum,I LOVE my work !)

-- Lesley Chasko (martchas@gateway.net), February 10, 2000.

Chris and Leslie are right on the money! I'm also a nurse and agree that plain soap and water are the best line of commonsense defense against infection. And some exposure to germs does help to strengthen our immune system. Example: The soldiers in boot camp who were most likely to get very sick with colds and flu were those who came from the fresh air of the farm and country. The guys who went to overcrowded city schools and were exposed to all kinds of germs every hour of the day didn't get nearly as sick. I'm glad your dad is doing well!!! Paulette

-- paulette mark (kiwi333@ipa.net), February 10, 2000.

Hey Christine, I'm not sure 'too, clean', is bad. It's not being exposed to 'stuff'. God bless old country doc's! Dr. Semisa was my old country Doc. Delivered me and my twin sister, (41 yrs ago.) I even remember him making house calls! He told my mother to: "'let them get dirty, once and awhile Teresa!' They need to be exposed!" How wise he was! This simple village doctor! So, a dirty kid is a happy, healthy kid, just wash now and again!

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), February 10, 2000.

Another point against rabid cleanliness. This isn't a problem for most people since they're eating out of the supermarkets' "vitamin enriched" offerings. But the possibility exists for a Vitamin D deficiency. Yes, the sun will "make" vit D on your skin, but it won't do you any good if you bathe the minute you get inside. The vitamin is in the oils of your skin and needs time to be absorbed into your body.

Since we are told not to set foot outside anymore without slathering ourselves with sunscreen, wearing long-sleeved shirts, long pants, and broad-brimmed hats, those of us who faithfully follow the "rules" may need to think a bit about getting enough vit D from the foods we eat or consider taking a supplement. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima@gerbil@hotmail.com), February 11, 2000.

Just another thought on using all the antibacterial soaps, detergents, etc. What is that doing to the bacterial in our septics, which are needed to break down all the "yuckkies?" Probably disturbs all of that balance, also.

-- Jan Bullock (Janice12@aol.com), February 11, 2000.

We lived in Korea for two years, right in a village as there was no military housing available for us, and always wondered how the Korean people were able to eat all the shell fish, fresh fish, meats, etc., which were on display outside, without the benefit of any refrigeration. They never appeared to be sick, although we were strictly forbidden to purchase or buy any of those. They must have built up some immunity to all the botulism, salmonella, etc.

-- Jan Bullock (Janice12@aol.com), February 11, 2000.

I, of course, agree with my old friend Lesley. I will say, however, that I bring out some pretty big guns when it comes time to slaughter chickens (or for that matter, to cut up venison). I use wooden cutting boards, and everything is disinfected with chlorine bleach prior to, and during the process. Initially, full strength, and a weak solution to wash down between birds. I trust I am not smartening up any bacteria, but if they live through chlorox, I guess they'll get me anyway. Whaddaya guys think?

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), February 12, 2000.

The fact that we, as a general statement, overuse and abuse antibiotics is so true. Having worked in a Family Practice center a few years ago, I remember patients complaining about not getting perscriptions for them when they had the flu! Another issue that is important is the exposure to parasites. I know I am exposed every day and if I don't "deworm" myself from time to time, I could run into some auto-immune defiencies and diseases. Most doctors don't test for this, or even consider it, yet we are exposed to the worms and bugs through our water, air, and food. A friend of mine, who owns no animals, lives in the city, and keeps her house and kids spotless, was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and was very sick. Come to find out, she was infested with liver flukes. After a parasite cleanse, she recovered quite nicely.

-- Patrice Bertke (herbalgroup@hotmail.com), February 12, 2000.

Yup,Brad, butchering animals and poultry require meticulous techniques to protect you and your meat from the germs and parasites of the barnyard.That is different from washing everything that moves inside the house with an antiseptic...Let's face it, some folks get carried away with "germ theory" if somebody tracks mud into the house. When we speak about "too clean", that's what I have in mind.I have lots of families in my practice who spend a great deal of otherwise fruitful time chasing down germs with all sorts of expensive goodies.Their kids are always the sickest ones in the practice!One Mom even carries around one of those gel antiseptic wipe things and washes her kids hands when they leave the supermarket. Re: parasites...anybody who practices medicine in a farming area had better be aware of intestinal parasites.They are pretty yucky to think about, but they are right up there in the differential diagnosis of many cases of fatigue, intestinal problems and joint pain...One thing i do suggest is that everybody pay close attention to careful cleaning of cutting boards and kitchen counters....well, I'm going to go scrub the fresh clams I just got from Maine,soak them for an hour in my un-sterilized sink,place them in my barely-rinsed- out-from-last-night steamer, sit back and contemplate the "good' bacteria keeping us all healthy.

-- Lesley Chasko (martchas@gateway.net), February 12, 2000.

I've really enjoyed reading these posts. My B.S. is in Microbiology and it is refreshing to hear people comment with a realistic and accepting view of bacteria on and in their bodies. Can't beat them, (wouldn't want to) so you may as well cope with it!

I called the antibacterial handsoap people to argue with them once! Not proud of it, but I was so disgusted by their ad at the time, I lost it. As if! It's well established that you could scour your hands for 20 minutes and still have a host of normal flora in your skin. Hence surgical gloves.

I support the use of Tylenol-only for many ear infections instead of jumping to antibiotics. I wouldn't be surprised if the AMA isn't forced to this conclusion after another 10 years. Repeated and reoccurring ear infections are bred by the one-upping of antibiotics and selection of the most resistant (to flair up after two weeks). Some children have unique inner ear problems, but many toddlers are lead down a path by the pink stuff. In case I sound like a moron, let me interject that I have four kids.

Our bodies are protected and assisted by the bacteria that coat us, inside and out. To rid ourselves of these benign bacteria just leaves us vulnerable to more invasive types. My goats couldn't even survive on their diet w/o ruminant bacteria.

I bleach my cutting boards, because of Salmonella, but I never boiled anything to give to my babies. After all, I couldn't boil MY nipples, so what is the point of boiling a toy that hits the floor?

I love the smell of freshly rained on soil -- the smell of Actinobacter. I like to eat Lactobacillus -- yogurt, cheese, etc. Who said "We have nothing to fear but fear itself?"?

-- Rachel Kerwood (rldk@hotmail.com), February 13, 2000.

Christine. I really don't have much to add to all this really great information. I agree with all the professional advice you have been given. I blame some of our resistant organisms on all the antibiotics that are give to the cattle and pigs on feedlots. We have a lot of that in Kansas. My boss at work {hospital laboratory] thinks I have lots of germs at home cause i raise goats,rabbits, chickens and an occasional feeder pig. But, I think a hospital or the schools are the really germ ridden places. Sure glad your dad is okay. Karen

-- karen mauk (dairygoatmama@yahoo.com), February 15, 2000.

WELL 2 TELL U THE TRUTH I THINK U ALL SHOULD FIND SOMETHING DECENT 2 TALK ABOUT LIKE DOGS AND Y THEY SMELL OR CATS- WHY THEY EAT FISH

COME ON, TALK DECENCY!!!!!!

LUV YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Louise Spellman (96-spellman-l@t-p-riley.walsall.sch.uk), April 11, 2001.

I recently learned that my grand children are playing with tent worms. They caught them and put them in a jar and play with them. Can they get sick from tent worms?

-- Stephanie Widmann (yarn@planetc.com), April 16, 2001.