I withdrew over $10,000 for y2k and now, because i won't sign this disclosure form, my bank won't print up my much needed new order for checks. What right does the gov't have in this matter? What right does the bank have to refuse my new checks? I'm steaming over this and would appreciate any help.

Crow

-- Crow (suzan@monad.net), February 22, 2000

Answers

crow:: years ago when the Hunt brothers were attempting to corner the silver market 78-79, I cashed in all my silver, i was delivering papers when the conversion from silver to clad was in place. when i went to cash it to pay my first house off the banker who was childhood friends with my mother in law would not allow me to pay off house with cash. IRS wanted to know if anybody deposits more than 10k they had to be notified, so we did it in 3 increments. What the bank regulations are today is that anybody depositing over 5k has to be asked where the money came from, drug laundering fear. I would filter in 1k at inconsistent intervals so the IRS/bank does not ask questions or do not withdraw any more money and spend this cash.

-- bobby knight (rknight@nb.net), February 22, 2000.

The Financial Recordkeeping and Reporting of Currency and Foreign Transactions Act of 1970 (31 U.S.C. 1051 et seq.). The regulation issued by the Department of the Treasury (Treasury) (31 C.F.R. 103) under the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) was originally intended to aid investigations into an array of criminal activities, from income tax evasion to laundering of money by organized crime.

The BSA consists of two parts; Title I Financial Recordkeeping and Title II Reports of Currency and Foreign Transactions. Title I authorized the Secretary of the Treasury to issue regulations, which require insured financial institutions to maintain certain records.

Title II directed Treasury to prescribe regulations governing the reporting of certain transactions by and through financial institutions in excess of $10,000 into, out of, and within the United States. The recordkeeping and reporting requirements are contained in the implementing regulations, 31 C.F.R. Part 103.

Currency Transaction Reports

A financial institution within the United States generally must file a Currency Transaction Report (CTR) Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Form 4789, for each transaction in currency over $10,000. Multiple currency transactions shall be treated as a single transaction if the financial institution has knowledge that they are by or on behalf of any person and result in either cash in or cash out totaling more than $10,000 during any one business day. In certain cases, transactions spread over a number of days may also constitute a reportable transaction. See "Structured Transactions" for details.

A transaction in currency is any transaction involving the physical transfer of currency from one person to another and covers deposits, withdrawals, exchanges or transfers of currency or other payments. Currency is defined as currency and coin of the United States or any other country as long as it is customarily accepted as money in the country of issue.

Information Required

All CTRs required by section 103.22(a) of the regulation must be filed with the IRS within 15 days following the date of the transaction (25 days if the financial institution files electronically). The financial institution must retain a copy of each report filed for a period of five years from the date of the report.

The regulations specifically require financial institutions to provide all applicable information. Each party to the transaction must be identified by name, address, social security number or taxpayer identification number, and date of birth. A street address is required. A post office box number is not acceptable. Additionally, the account number and the social security number or taxpayer identification number, if any, must be recorded for any person or entity for whose account such transaction is to be effected.

The method used to identify the person presenting the transaction must be recorded on the CTR. If the customer has no social security number or taxpayer identification number, the word "none" should be entered in the appropriate block. For an alien, or a person who indicates that he or she is not a resident of the United States, verification of identity must by made by passport, alien identification card, or other official document evidencing nationality or residence. For others, the identity verification procedures that would normally be used in cashing a check should be performed, e.g., driver's license or credit card.

Financial institutions should designate one person to collect, review and file CTRs for all offices and keep the copies in a central location. These procedures will aid in internal control and auditing and will indicate to the reviewer which customers may be making large cash deposits at more than one office. These procedures will also aid in the uniformity and timely filing of reports.

The IRS, in processing the forms, edits all CTRs filed for accuracy and completeness. When certain critical information is incomplete, illegible or is not provided, IRS corresponds with the financial institution to obtain the information.

-- nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), February 22, 2000.

thaanks for the info. I guess I'll just go down tomorrow and sign the dang thing. It's now 60 days later....what difference, if any, does that make?

Crow

-- Crow (suzan@monad.net), February 22, 2000.

nabi,

Great info. I was aware of all of those regulations especially since we were doing quite a bit of cash in and out and around for Y2K cash, some bullion purchases, bullion in and out of Pension Profit Sharing Plan, wires, etc. Have a question though. For many years I have frequently deposited more than $10K for business usually 1-3 checks. Untill a few years ago about half of the deposits were cash. Although I am aware that all these transactions are probably reported I have never worried because it is all legit business expense/income and reported to IRS. BUT the bank has never even informed me that these transactions are being reported. I've never signed anything unless it was something I signed while opening an account. Don't remember anything related though.

Few months ago opened a corporate account with bank where had only had small personal account. I've deposited over $10K in that account without doing anything special.

Comments please. Do they just assume I know they are reporting these transactions and/or I've been banking there so long they make other assumptions? Peace and thanks in advance.

-- granny-TX (westamyx@bigfoot.com), February 22, 2000.

Crow,

When you opened your account with the bank, you signed a signature card...that card is a contract with the bank and an equity relationship with FRB and UK...you agreed to abide by all their fraudulent rules by signing that contract.

These sites might help you understand this:

http://www.gemworld.com/USAvsUS.htm

http://www.worldcommunityedu.org

-- Eagle Feather (links2u@hotmail.com), February 23, 2000.

CHANGE BANKS!!!!!!!

-- ... (...@...COM), February 23, 2000.

I already changed banks...and this is only a 2 bank town! My first bank sent back all of 1 months checks to my payees, stamped " account closed". They did this twice and the reason? "We're looking into it, we're so sorry, we just don't understand how this could have happened"

The 2 incidents were about 9 months apart. Hmmm, anyone know if I have any recourse ( other than the bank swallowing the fees and sending letters of apology...which they did)?

Crow

-- Crow (suzan@monad.net), February 23, 2000.

Crow, you don't need to depend on the bank to print your checks. You can walk into any print shop in your area and they can take care of the matter. As a printer, I can print checks in shop or I can sub it out to any of virtually many dozens of trade printers that specialize in check printing.

If you have an account with a number that's all you need. Go see your local printer. ...sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), February 24, 2000.

1) Ain't it grand to actually SEE the law??

2) Sunday Coupon Section. There should be at least 2 check printing offers that'll be cheaper than the bank.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 29, 2000.