Good evening, all. I was reading through some emails earlier, visiting some links that were provided to me and through my journey, found myself at the Bob Jones University website. Now, I'm no stranger to it; I visited it after the whole McCain/Bush blowup. I was curious as to what the fuss was about and checked it out. At the time, I didn't see what the problem was. This evening, I found out. After viewing the page below, I must admit, I am saddened and a little angry. I didn't know what I was reading at first. Looked like newsbriefs from around the world that had to do with religion. No big deal. Struck me as odd that an alleged anti-Catholic school would report of Catholic goings on but who knows, right? Ha! I figured it out when I read the small print at the bottom of the page. In part, we provide this so you can know what the devil is up to in the world. So, anyone or any group that doesn't agree with their teachings is the work of the devil??? My, how Christian of them. I'm trying to keep in mind what Jesus said...forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. And love one another, as I have loved you. Any affront to my religion upsets me but I will try very hard to heed His words.

In case you want to see for yourself- http://www.bju.edu/resources/witw/vol27_num06.html

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), March 19, 2000

Answers

Don't let it get to you Jackiea. Bob Jones has always been that way. Hey, at least the Catholic Church was only the target of 2 of those bulletins -- and one of them hit both you and me since it went after charismatic Catholics (since I'm charismatic and BJ thinks that's also of the devil). I'm never truly insulted or hurt by anyone's opinion unless I respect that person and with BJ, that's never a worry.

-- David Bowerman (dbowerman@blazenet.net), March 20, 2000.

Sometimes it is very difficult to know what or why God permitted something to happen in the world. And, unless you have a direct coomunication with him, it is very often very hard to know what the devil is doing. So attributing to him things may be presumptous. There is a story in Spanish: Pedro arrives at his home in the early hours of the morning in a state of complete drunkeness. Juana is really mad. She takes a broomstick and gives him the works. Pedro protests: "Espirate, mujer, why are you beating me? It was all the devil's work. He tempted me to go the bar. He offered me a bottle, he opened it and gave it to me. So I drank it. Then a second bottle, and a third.." Suddenly there is a smoke column in the middle of the house, and out of it comes Satan himself. He addresses Pedro: "Callate, mentiroso. According to the reccords of my secretary which I have with me, all that time I was having a delightful siesta".

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), March 21, 2000.

I always take comfort in the words of Our Lord in His sermon on the mount. At the last part He said, ''Blessed are you when men reproach you and persecute you, and speak falsely, say all manner of evil against you, for my sake. Rejoice and exult, because your reward is great in heaven; for so did they persecute the prophets who were before you.'' We are fortunate as Christians to fall, however harmlessly, into this blessed category. Nobody that I know of lambastes Bob Jones and his followers today; except for the obvious political reason. He and his University cannot be what Our Lord was talking about, ''Blessed.''

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), April 04, 2000.

Good Point, Eugene!

-- Pamela (Rosylace@aol.com), April 04, 2000.

Without in anyway intending to defend Bob Jone's University, the point you make Eugene is definitely one that can be made by both parties in this situation. Bob Jone's University could just as easily use the same scripture to comfort themselves in the face of the persecution they have faced ever since this entire bruhaha began. They perceive their words as being prophetically accurate and the rejection of their beliefs by Catholics and the rest of the world as validation that they are being unfairly targeted for speaking the truth.

It's all a matter of perspective.

-- David Bowerman (dbowerman@blazenet.net), April 04, 2000.

Dear Dave, --You and I know that for human beings, everything indeed is relative. But not for God. I am not the judge of these false prophets, He is. In consequence, I take comfort in Christ's words as addressed to His Church. Their course is to calumnize the Church unjustly. Let them rationalise it as they wish.

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), April 04, 2000.

Dear Eugene,
I understand the point you are making, and I agree with it. (In God's eyes, only the Catholic Church is persecuted, not Bob Jones.)

But I would recommend that you avoid using the expression, "... for human beings, everything indeed is relative." This could be (mis)interpreted as an agreement with the heresy known as "moral relativism." According to this way of thinking, there are no moral absolutes -- no intrinsically immoral actions. Each person makes his own reality. The spreading of this poisonous anti-theology is "legally protected murder" (such as abortion and euthanasia), the availability of pornography, etc..

I am certain that you did not intend this, but young people so easily misunderstand when they hear those words ("everything is relative") that I encourage folks to find a different way of conveying the idea they wish to express.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), April 05, 2000.

I understand and agree, and it was clearly (I thought) my meaning--I juxtaposed the human and the Divine in this point of view. Thanks for the reply. Please continue, you are on a roll.

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), April 05, 2000.

It's good to see that Catholics here are taking the Bob Jones situation seriously. Some of you may not be aware of the background of the situation or may be thinking that Catholics are overreacting to "Bob Jones University." BJU, which has about 5,000 students, is located in Greenville, South Carolina. Its Internet pages say that it "was founded in College Point, Florida, in 1927 by well-known evangelist [writer of the fifth gospel?], Dr. Bob Jones, Sr., son of an Alabama sharecropper."

Here are a couple of revealing articles about BJU and its attitude toward Catholicism, taken from the Catholic League's current journal, "Catalyst."

Your friends, the
Concerned Catholics
#################################

Most Catholics are aware that some Protestants still carry a deep-seated animus against their religion, and if ever there were any doubt, the Bob Jones University controversy removed them all.

It was the patriarch himself, Rev. Bob Jones, who commented in 1928 on the prospect of seeing a Catholic, [Democrat presidential candidate] Al Smith, in the White House. "Id rather see a nigger as President" is how he put it. His son, Bob Jones II, was just like his father, calling the Catholic Church "the Mother of Harlots" and a "satanic counterfeit."

Bob Jones III is another loyal son; it was he who decided to post "the Mother of Harlots" comment, and others like them, on the Bob Jones University website in 2000. Moreover, Jones decided in February to speak directly to this issue: "If there are those who wish to charge us with being anti-Catholicism [sic], we plead guilty."

Oh, yes, Jones hastens to add that "we love the practicing Catholic." Theres a catch, though. Jones and his followers are praying that the practicing Catholic "leave the false system that has enslaved his soul." Otherwise, we Catholics will all go to hell. This takes on special significance when we remember that on March 3, Bob Jones III announced that the school was dropping its ban on interracial dating. What this shows is that the university is more passionate about its anti-Catholicism than its racism. We dont expect this will change anytime soon.

On March 14, it was reported that Bob Jones University had dropped from its website the charge that Catholicism is a cult. The next day president Bob Jones III explained it was "totally misleading" to conclude that this was done "for suspect reasons or because of embarrassment or cowardice." He added that "In order to leave no doubt in anyones mind of the universitys integrity and absolute commitment to its biblical principles, the article in question has been reposted."

We countered by saying that "In order to leave no doubt in anyones mind of the Catholic Leagues integrity and absolute commitment to its Catholic principles, our previous accusation that Bob Jones University is anti-Catholic has been reaffirmed by the presidents latest decision."



-- Concerned Catholics (clrcrmems@aol.com), April 08, 2000.

Be that as it may-- Let's not go to the deep end and accuse Geo W Bush of being anti-Catholic! No matter what this (ugh) University stands for.

All of this is nothing new. A few years ago, just walking down a sidewalk, I saw in a store window something that made me sick. It was a ''Christian Bookstore''; the type in which you can find pretty calendars, religious gifts, etc.,

A book selection in plain view showed one cover with Pope John Paul II on it, in his vestments and mitre, with his hand held up in blessing. But on his face was an expression of evil-- a mask so gross! Smiling wickedly, with nothing but the horns missing. He was pictured as Anti-Christ / Where does it go from there? Truly, the Devil hates the Catholic Church; and he has his own flock.

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), April 08, 2000.

Mr. Chavez,
Rest assured that our message had no political overtones, but was strictly an expose' of the fiasco known as BJU.
We are supporters of Alan Keyes, probably the best man ever to have run for the U.S. presidency, but would support Bush over Gorey Al (successor to Bloody Bill and Killary), if they were the only two candidates.
Concerned Catholics

-- Concerned Catholics (clrcrmems@aol.com), April 08, 2000.

Hi, Friends,

I have nothing but respect for Keyes. In order not to instigate a political controversy here, I refrain from what must be obvious, if you've read my posts.

As for BJU, you can take them with a grain of salt. We should worry about OTHERS, with much more clout. Such as the motion picture moguls and the abortion industry. This last Oscar for ''Best Picture'' and Best Actor'' shows how the agenda is being forwarded. The movie-going public is as ''broad- minded'' as it has ever been. Nobody learns as much at the University as it does at the movies. It chills my blood.

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), April 08, 2000.

Let us consider the beginning.

Imagine endless empty space that goes on into infinity non-existence no awareness EVIL.

If we consider the old saying life finds away. GOD came into being by his own will to be, the awareness. Born out of the non-existence the EVIL.

Imagine an awareness hovering in endless space or Darkness as HE would see it.

After a time his thoughts become collective and he begins to think. He is aware of himself and begins to wonder if there were another. After searching for countless billions of years, the loneliness consumes him into obsession with finding another. But there is no other but him. He splits into two separate entities (schizoid only for real) that are equal and opposite in nature. Light - that which creates (Life - the future). Darkness(SHE : Spirit that inhabits the Darkness- The past) - Destroys makes desolate. Each has the same goal to end the loneliness only they have diametrically opposite positions on how to go about it. Chaos vs. Order, Light vs. Darkness, Life vs. Death, Existence vs. non-existence or Good vs. Evil. GOD is the awareness of being before the Darkness. We stand between the Darkness and the Light. Our true purpose is to Be. For that is the will of GOD - to be because HE is. Ja'El they said. When GOD comes again if he comes into Darkness the Earth will be cleansed with the fire of GOD (His true form). If GOD comes into the Light he will make the Earth a new with the Tree and the River of Life. All things are possible if we believe. The power of the Holy Spirit is promised to us by Jesus Christ.

That is why no one has seen GOD because he became separate from himself. The two have to be united into their new form. They want to come and live us,their children and the Angles of Light and Darkness. We are the key to setting them Free from the loneliness forever. Revelation chap 17 Behold the Beast that was (EVIL or non-existence reined in the beginning there was no awareness) and is not (Evil- the tendency towards non-existence cannot exist in pure form) and yet is (If we lose our sense of awareness the EVIL will return and nothing will exist)

The River of Life is man's final salvation. The fruit of Tree of Life is for the Fallen Angles Consummation, Turn from Darkness back to the awareness of GOD. The Leaves are for the Healing of the Nations. The sword of Power blocks our way to it and blinds us from The one who was (The True GOD, the past) The one who is (Man the children of GOD, the present) The one who will be (Christ - the son of man, the future). We will become like the others and they will become like us. The evolution.

The way is through Awareness - GOD's will to be. Understanding is Knowing the Truth Understanding is Accepting the Truth The Truth leads to Understanding which leads to Awareness which strengthens our will to Be.

The Truth is put before us but, they do everything they can to keep us from Understanding it.

We have to show them that we are not children anymore. That we have learned to Understand the Truth. And the Truth shall set us all Free. They are counting on us and we can't let them down. But it is ultimately up to them to change - Free will.

Mystery? Who are you? Man who stands between the Darkness and the Light. What do you want? Freedom Why are you here? To bring order to chaos. Where are you going? The Future

The End of Time - The New Beginning

-- Darian Borne (shadows@vmbc.net), December 01, 2000.

Friends,

If you wish to converse with Mr. Borne, please go to the thread he started (and to which I responded). It is called, "I'm looking for intelligent opinions not blind lashings Thank you." He posted the same message to start that thread. Please do not respond to him here.

SN

-- (free@long.last), December 02, 2000.