Modern Camera Prices

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A couple of months ago in this forum, I made some rather disparaging remarks to Bob Salomon about what I thought was rather high prices for Linhof cameras. Last night, I was reading a book published about 1942 which showed the early Linhof as well as many other fine cameras of its day. At the time the book was published, the Linhof, without lens, was listed at $234.00. A Speed Graphic was about $200 with flash gun, and the Juwel B, a Saint Ansel favorite, was about $340. A Rolleiflex was $275. The point of this is that given the inflation factor between 1942 and today, today's cameras are quite a bargain. Remember that in 1942 a new Ford or Chevy could be bought for about $900. Look at the prices of cars today. In another section of the same book, a photographer was bragging that he was doing quite well selling pictures to boxers and wrestlers at the fantastic sum of $25 PER HUNDRED FOR 8X10 glossies. As for me, I think I will stop bitching so much about camera prices and give thanks that I don't have to make 8x10s for twenty-five cents each. Doug.

-- Doug Paramore (dougmary@alanet.com), March 30, 2000

Answers

The price of Linhof Master Techs has actually come down by a factor of about two over the last decade or two, if I remember correctly from some old catalogues I recently saw. Bob can probably provide us with the details. A bargain at any price, says I!

Nathan

-- Nathan Congdon (ncongdon@jhmi.edu), March 30, 2000.


Let's assume that a new car costsaround $25,000. I think you'd be amazed by the number of photographers who would be happy to sell hundreds of 8x10 machine prints from the same negative at $6.95 which is what $0.25 in 1942 is in year 2000 dollars using that multiple.

-- Ellis Vener (evphoto@insync.net), March 30, 2000.

Appreciate the info Doug but you should note that Linhof and Rollei were, and are, made in Germany. That would mean that one of those being sold as new in 1942 was probably not right off the boat from the factory.

Unless you were looking at a 1942 magazine from the Axis powers.

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), March 30, 2000.


I don't know. If I'm understanding the data correctly, the All Urban Consumer CPI has increased a little under 11x since 1942 (from 15.7 to 168.7 1/42-1/2000). A Master Technika 2000 goes for $3695 from Badger Graphic. That's almost a 16x increase over 1942. The comparison to cars isn't really fair; there have been far more technical innovations and improvements since 1942 in automobiles than in 4x5 cameras.

-- Chris Patti (cmpatti@aol.com), March 30, 2000.

There was no Technika 2000 in 1942.

The successor to the old Linhof Medezin (the model before the III) would be the Master technika which is less then the 2000. Also the one priced in 1942 would have included a manufacturers warranty of some sort in the US and the grey version from Badger does not.

Properly imported Linhofs in the US include a 5 year warranty.

In Bruce Barnbaum's case this meant that a 4 year old, heavily used Master with a broken drop bed was repaired at NC

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), March 30, 2000.



OK, what's the suggested retail of a Master Technika w/ 5 yr. warranty?

-- Chris Patti (cmpatti@aol.com), March 31, 2000.

The authorized dealer sets the actual selling price.

There are 3 versions sold in the US. The black bodied (least expensive), the chrome body (most expensive) and a chrome body with minor marks on the chrome that make it less then the normal chrome body.

Any dealer will be able to quote selling prices to you.

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), March 31, 2000.


Bob: The book I was referring to was Willard Morgan's "The Complete Photographer-An Encylopedia of Photography" published in 1941-1942. Since the U.S. didn't enter the war until December 1941, and given the lag time in book publishing, the prices should be close for new cameras. I have read in the past that Linhofs and Rolleiflexes were selling as high as $500 during the later years of the war. Guess it depended on how badly the photographer wanted the Linhof or Rollei. Doug.

-- Doug Paramore (dougmary@alanet.com), March 31, 2000.

Here's a much more recent example of LF price increases. The Sinar F1 was $1850 two years ago at B&H. It's now $2311. That's a 25% increase ($461) in two years.

-- Joel Collins (jwc3@mindspring.com), March 31, 2000.

"Here's a much more recent example of LF price increases. The Sinar F1 was $1850 two years ago at B&H. It's now $2311. That's a 25% increase ($461) in two years."

Want a better example?

Look in the B&H catalog (the big one, not the monthly one and not the web page) and check the 1999 price for the Linhof Kardan M 4x5 full featured monorail camera. It was, I believe, $1995.00.

Now check any dealer for the price of the Linhof Kardan M camera which is the same camera as the E except renamed for the Millennium.

The current price is $1170.00!

If you are a student in a photo school the price through your local dealer is $895.00

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), March 31, 2000.



Pegging prices to a specific formula such as a Consumer Price Index only goes so far. Last year at this time I was buying gasoline for $ 0.87.9 a gallon. At the same gas station it is now $ 1.56.9 a gallon. Same refinery, same dealer. While gas is more variable than photo gear, at least the higher quality stuff such as Linhof, prices do vary depending on more than just a seasonally adjusted inflation rate. Having used Technicas for a long time, I think they are worth the price I pay, even when buying used. They work well, do what they are designed to do and hold up almost forever You can't ask for much more than that. I compare them to the figures I saw a few years ago comparing the "actual price" one pays for high quality versus cheap stuff. This one was a Leica M6 compared to decent quality point and shoot cameras. For the expected life of the Leica and lens in a direct life expectancy comparison to the cheaper camera, the Leica was less expensive over its projected life by around $500 or so. You still get what you pay for.

-- Dan Smith (shooter@brigham.net), March 31, 2000.

Good point, Dan. Another thing which we don't take into consideration is the inflation rate in Germany. I am sure that taking the inflation rate of both countries into the picture, it would work out where the price has not increased that much. Incidentally, in an earlier posting in this thread, I said that I had read that Linhofs and Rolleis were selling at $500 in the later years of WWII. I meant that to mean that price was for USED cameras, but I failed to say so. Speaking of camera and lens prices, many photographers, me included, tend to equate price with quality and desirability. I'll be willing to bet that few of us would be rushing to buy a Lieca or Linhof or Nikon if they were priced at $99 including carrying case. Look at the many good low and medium priced cameras that aren't made anymore. The old all-metal B and J press camera was as good as a Speed Graphic and even had a revolving back, which the Graphic didn't have. It sold for about a third of the price of a Graphic. Yet, everyone wanted the Graphic. Doug.

-- Doug Paramore (dougmary@alanet.com), March 31, 2000.

Well, everyone can decide for him or herself whether a Linhoff is worth the price. That decision will depend on lots of factors, many of which are personal. My point was that it is not really the case, as the original post suggested, that the price of high-end 4x5 cameras (Linhoff in particular)has declined in real terms since 1942. That doesn't mean that to some people they won't be worth the money.

-- Chris Patti (cmpatti@aol.com), March 31, 2000.

All this Linhof talk makes me wonder about an issue I never fully understood. Bob, tell me how Linhof, the Rolls Royse of cameras with a reputation that exceeds all others could be in bankrupcy... or just come out of bankrupcy? This is second hand information, so wait for confirmation from Bob.... however, my question is this... with such a huge reputable name.. high prices (which usualy represent greater gross margins) compared to other makers today.. which is not surprsing, Mercedes Benz will always be more than a Ford... what made the company have such problems? And how long ago was this? It seems with the products and prices they are advertising today, like the Kardan you mention above, they should clearly be dominate and profitable again... are they? could part of this occured from the huge increase in LF makers from the 50's to say the 70's? I am sure many of us would like to understand the story behind this...

-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 01, 2000.

"All this Linhof talk makes me wonder about an issue I never fully understood. Bob, tell me how Linhof, the Rolls Royse of cameras with a reputation that exceeds all others could be in bankrupcy... or just come out of bankrupcy? "

Why do you SPREAD RUMORS OR :LIES?

If, as you say, it is unsubstantiated why not ask us before publishing this drivel?

Linhof is not in and never was in bankruptcy or liquidation. Linhof's owners husband contracted a terminal illness and she announced a couple of years ago that she wanted to sell the company.

The company was sold to another German slightly after Photokina 1998.

Yes there have been recent bankruptcies in the German photo industry. These include Rollei, Minox, Schneider, Bewi, etc over the past 20 odd years. But none of them included Linhof.

If you think you have a hot news item please do the proper thing and VERIFY YOUR FACTS PRIOR TO SPREADING TRASH!

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 01, 2000.



My apologies Bob S, yes you are right, even though I heard this from several sources, there is a lot of bad information out there, and this was one of them... I should have not assumed this was true before asking you... I did not spread this TRASH to anyone, I posted and awaited your response. I certainly am not afraid to admit when I am in error... and take my backlashing like a man... I'm sure you would do the same....please accept my apology...

How big is Linhoff as a compnay? Is their annual sales figures quoted... is this public information? Employees, etc. I assume you must have been to the plant in Germany before, right? Just curious?

-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 04, 2000.


Bill you did spread this trash to everyone on this list. Take responsibility for your actions.

-- Ellis Vener (evphoto@insync.net), April 04, 2000.

Not to enter into polemics or excuse anything, but I was told two years ago by my official Linhof representative in Switzerland, that the Master 2000 wasn't made anymore. Until end of last year when I was told it was again available. In the same time, I saw it advertised on some websites in the US! Search for the error!

-- Paul Schilliger (pschilliger@vtx.ch), April 04, 2000.

"Not to enter into polemics or excuse anything, but I was told two years ago by my official Linhof representative in Switzerland, that the Master 2000 wasn't made anymore. Until end of last year when I was told it was again available. In the same time, I saw it advertised on some websites in the US! Search for the error! "

The 2000 was never discontinued, at least by the factory, but the finder with the electronic rangefinder was discontinued after the production of them was depleted.

Perhaps that is what they were referring to?

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 04, 2000.


Who would tell a potential customer that a pricey camera is not available if it weren't true? Maybe the person was not well informed (which would be a shame for an official representant). Obviously this was an error, but I'm just trying to demonstrate how rumors can start!

-- Paul Schilliger (pschilliger@vtx.ch), April 05, 2000.

Paul, that sure makes sense! But since when does logic apply? (However, it may get classified as TRASH... so beware of the next post) So in the future, let us both be more careful and never question those of superior knowledge again, fair enough?

-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 05, 2000.

My apologies! I might have thrown more oil on the fire. I'll try to be wiser next time. This forum is such a nice place when it's cordial. Enough fight in the real life!

-- Paul Schilliger (pschilliger@vtx.ch), April 05, 2000.

To come to the defense of our poster who thought Linhof had filed for bankrputcy, I heard this from two separate LF dealers, one of whom handled Linhof cameras. Their explanation was that it is nearly impossible to downsize by getting rid of employees in Germany, so this was done "as a formality" to get rid of some dead wood, get the products more profitable, and wouldn't effect those looking for Linhof cameras and products. It was also discussed on some of the internet lists. Far from spreading "TRASH", if this list isn't the place to post a question like this, then what is? I appreciate Bob Solomon posting here & have solicited his advice at times myself. But I believe Bob over reacts on this one. True or not, the story was making the rounds. As one who over-reacts at times as well, I can understand Bob's reaction. He sells damn good gear, and YES, I own Linhof and have for almost 25 years. Very good gear. And, bankruptcy filing fact or fiction, nothing will change that.

-- Dan Smith (shooter@brigham.net), April 05, 2000.

"To come to the defense of our poster who thought Linhof had filed for bankrputcy, I heard this from two separate LF dealers, one of whom handled Linhof cameras. Their explanation was that it is nearly impossible to downsize by getting rid of employees in Germany, so this was done "as a formality" to get rid of some dead wood, get the products more profitable, and wouldn't effect those looking for Linhof cameras and products. It was also discussed on some of the internet lists. Far from spreading "TRASH", if this list isn't the place to post a question like this, then what is? I appreciate Bob Solomon posting here & have solicited his advice at times myself. But I believe Bob over reacts on this one. True or not, the story was making the rounds. As one who over-reacts at times as well, I can understand Bob's reaction. He sells damn good gear, and YES, I own Linhof and have for almost 25 years. Very good gear. And, bankruptcy filing fact or fiction, nothing will change that. "

It is not a matter of over reacting it is such a stupid statement that if anyone had checked the facts they would have discovered that Linhof owned their real etate and the value of their land holdings was so great that they could not have declared bankruptcy under any conditions. In short their assets far exceeded their debts making your version impossible.

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 06, 2000.


BTW,

How come it is alway "I heard from" but no one names who spreads these rumors?

Also are you speaking of a Linhof dealer who stocks new Linhofs or one who sells used Linhofs?

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 06, 2000.


Bob, on what basis do you set the standard for veracity of posting on photo.net? Take a look around, get real.

You expect people to check the assets of privately held companies to determine if they could, in fact, file bankruptcy before passing along a rumor? That is ridiculous. Besides you don't have to be devoid of all assets to file bankruptcy, just insolvent. In fact, you don't even have to be insolvent, just unable to service your debt.

-- Dan Brown (dbrown@uniden.com), April 06, 2000.


No,

But asking people who are most likely to know rather then:

" 2 dealers one of whom is a Linhof dealer" would help.

Why do you think a miscellaneous retailer that is posted anonymously would be a reliable source"

In fact why would any retailer or user be more authoritative then someone who has a contract with the vendor directly?

The web is a great source for help but it is one of the worst sources of rumors, half truths, conspiracy and false hoods around.

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 06, 2000.


I heard that Linhofs were actually made by Burke and James --- never mind that BJ went out of business years ago -- theyve got millions of 'em stored in caves in Thuringen! The Pope is responsible for relableing the cameras from "Burke and James" to "Linhof" --- he wanted to get back at Americans for electing protestants as president. So don't waste thousands on Linhof when you can buy a BJ 4x5 for hundreds! That Carl Zeiss lenses are actually "cosina" lenses with "zeiss" painted over "cosina." Tmax is actually respooled Chinese army surplus film from 1958! That Ernst Leitz is NOT headquartered in Wetzlar, but is run by the illuminati of Bavaria, who are closely tied to the Masons and the people who killed JFK. Of course, every morning I carefully line my hat and shoes with aluminum foil and drink a cup of canola oil to protect myself from cosmic rays...Don't be fooled! Believe EVERYTHING you read online! Its only in the newspapers that they LIE!

-- alan (adale6@excite.com), April 06, 2000.

Bob, I posted an aplogy for mentioning this, ... however this TRASH was obviously not unique to my ears... I also heard this again from a reputalbe UK dealer.

Anyway, in all fairness, and I know you refuse to address this issue, don't you think - you should drop your salesman hat when participating on this forum? Why don't you try it... just for awhile.... try not to jump down everyones throat once you sense a post could jeopordize your annual sales goals. Who knows, maybe you can win back customers like myself, several co workers and many others on this forum who have elected to buy all your products grey market as a result of your attitude towards us little people... You may find this approach more beneficial towards your annual sales? I propose you give it a try.... OK?

-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 08, 2000.


Bill,

I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and proved wrong then and any "reputable UK dealer" isn't very reputable if he spreads lies like this. Or he is ignorant.

As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what was sent you at our expense that was far and above your requests.

Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that you make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe issue. And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't properly investigate it.

You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in your town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne their and see what the answers to many of your questions are.

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 08, 2000.


Bill, I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and proved wrong then and any "reputable UK dealer" isn't very reputable if he spreads lies like this. Or he is ignorant.

As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what was sent you at our expense that was far and above your requests.

Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that you make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe issue. And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't properly investigate it.

You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in your town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne their and see what the answers to many of your questions are.

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 08, 2000.


I've never met Bob or communicated with him, but I do greatly value his contributions to this group. Also, from reading his posts, I've never felt like I was being "sold" the brands he represents. The comment about "attitude" towards "the little people" is unfair. I get the feeling from reading other threads that he bends over backwards to make people/customers happy.

Thanks for the contributions,

-- Brad Evans (bevans@best.com), April 08, 2000.


Bob, this is not a forum for personal issues, my comments were generalized for the benefit of the forum... I offered many times in the past for a truce to personal issues, but you refuse, and I think that is unfair to the forum...your posts of false information about people constantly cause people like me to defend my character... it's so unnecessary.

As you have done since we started comm., you distort the truth to suit your position, and frankly that gets frustrating and demeaning after awhile! Although I have explained these things to you in detail off line, you continue to post these false accusations in this forum. This is why, when I look back in the old logs in this forum, long before I began participating, I find one common theme, you have had repeated personal wars with many posters throughout the years... I never saw this occur with any other users of this forum... All these wars were always betwen you and another poster, never between other posters... Maybe you should go back and refresh your memeory, then possibly you will see a pattern here. And while your searching Bob, see if you can find one single personal war I had with any poster, you won't BOB!

"Bill, I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and proved wrong then"

Bob, did it ever occure to you I never saw that post? Forgive me for not following the forum 365 days per year. Couldn't have you mentioned this posted before and reference the previous post? It was a simple question... had this not been one of your product lines, you would have never jumped down my throat, that was my point! Had I asked if Sinar went Bankrupt, you would have provided a peaceful answer. (assumming you knew) Thats my point of taking off your salesmans hat when on this forum.

"As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what was sent you at our expense that was far and above your requests" I did not mention support Bob, I mentioned your attitude towards us, or at least me. So don't switch it around to suit your post. Re read my post!

"Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that you make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe issue."

Out right lie Bob... I am amazed you can not let this issue die... I addressed this loupe issue to you 3 times, as well as 2 other LF photographers. We performed every test you advised us of, and none of us came up with the results you anticipated, we contacted you, and you told said all 3 of us were wrong? And you are accussing me of not accepting incorrect statements that I make? Re read my posts Bob, I admit being wrong many times, and it does not bother me the least...Even as arrogant as you have been towards me, I still offered apologies and stated I was wrong to you. You need to acquire that personality trait! YOU NEVER OFFERED THIS TO ME OR ANYONE ELSE, INSTEAD ONCE CONFRONTED - YOU START A WRITTEN WAR. Being wrong on this forum is nothing to be ashamed of, this forum has some incredibly well educated and very knowledgeable people in all areas of photography... I feel privlaged gaining knowledge and offering support to help others where ever I can, because so many people have offered me help in areas I had less experience in. It's such a great arrangement, I truly respect the forum, it seems others do also.

"And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't properly investigate it."

The investigation of these topics can clearly be done on this forum. Just as a poster mentioned above... the only reason you take some issues personaly and jump down our throats, is because you are financially connected with these companies. To the last poster, I just want to mention, that in all fairness, I too appreciate Bob's wiliingness to offer help on this forum, he has made some excellent contributions even outside his product line...I am never afraid to give credit, where its due. But these persoanl issues and arrogant resposnes only arise when it relates to the product lines he represents, that was my point.

"You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in your town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne their and see what the answers to many of your questions are."

Thank you Bob, for telling me how best to handle my photography issues. I have been quite content using this forum, thank you. I also could direct you to some places for help, but that's not the purpose of this forum Bob, so I won't respond.

I apologize to everyone for this "non photography talk" It is very unlike me to enter in personal issues with anyone like I have here. However, unlike the real world, when some says something to you that is false or arrogant, its easy for one to dismiss it. But in a public forum where everone can read false accusations about me, I unfortunatley feel the need to defend myself. I appreciate this forum for the purpose it serves. But like many before me, and probably many after me, it seems you will not cease this type of posting? I guess for as long as anyone does not agree with your opinions or suggests anything potentially negative about your product lines, you find posting arrogance and lies necesary.

Sorry Bob, I am not a door mat, and will not allow you to post half truths and false statements about me without defending myself. But its obvious, not matter how many times I email you offline about these issues, you will ignore them, and continue this rediclulous public behavoir.

Although I have been warned by many people off line about dealing with you.... "no one ever wins with Bob S", my point is, I don't want to win. I am trying to be the bigger person here Bob, and like I have suggested many times in previous posts, can you once try to bury the ax and stop the personal assaults? I don't want these unproductive posts to continue and clog up the forum... do you? For once I would like to see you address that question, but if history repeasts itself, you will ignore it. I am always available off line of by phone to resolve any issues so that we can productive from here on.. My apologies to everyone on the forum...



-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 08, 2000.


Bill, you have a wealth of anonymous sources. Why not name some?

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 08, 2000.

Yeah Bob, I am going to drag innocent people into this for your amusement, right. If you want a good half dozen sources to start with - just check the last years casualties of your "war" posts. How's that for a start? Anyway, is this really the relevant issue here?

More importantly Bob, as I anticipated, you once again ignored the key question at the end of my post... so I will just assume this has been, and will continue to be your mode of operation. Attack anyone, anytime if they question your knowledge or post anything remotely negative about your product line. OK, at least you make yourself clear... Lets end this... I will continue to defend my self against any false accusations you post about me! Thanks for being a gentleman about resolving this situation????

-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 08, 2000.


The more two people fight, the more they become alike. (Confucius) Please take your diagreements off-line.

-- neil poulsen (neil.fg@worldnet.att.net), April 09, 2000.

Niel, as I mentioned, I have moved this offline many times with Bob, but he continues to post false accusations about me in public forums. I unfortunatly feel the need to defend myself. I am sorry if you would react differently. Moving things off line with Bob does not seem to resolve this situation, he still feels compelled to make untrue personal attacks in public forums?

-- Bill Glickman (bglick@pclv.com), April 09, 2000.

Well,Well, Well, Q.E.D. It looks like I wasn't the only one to quarrel with Bob. I do not want to re-open old wounds but, once and for all, I think someone has an attitude problem here and since the name which keeps on coming up is always the same, wouldn't it be time to ask oneself: "Am I doing anything wrong?". Wisdom would suggest that if many fingers point to a certain direction there might be something to look there! We all have our ways and our idiosyncrasies but , Bob, give us a break and play the gentleman whom, I am sure, you are. We all love Linhof, we might not own one but we are all aware of its enormous merits. We are with you there! Please give your informed answers without sarcasm, this last one travels so bad on the net! No offence, but I got so sick of my quarrel with Bob that I stepped out of this forum, is it worth loosing people to this kind of behaviour? Adults might argue but not in this fashion, it is childish! Everyone is entitled to its opinion, one might rectify what another writes but there is no need to get personal. I mean, Bob, you import Linhof and yes your livelyhood depends on the credibility of this and other companies which you import. I respect that, but, I have been working in my father's vinegar company as well, and yes, sometimes customer's (or would be so) get you somewhere where it hurts (remember it was my family's company for the last 111 years!), however, the perfect sales person reacts with elegance and although might be tempted to strike back keeps professional and makes his or her point without antagonizing the author of the misinformed comment.

Linhof is expensive.

Rolls isn't cheap.

Rolex isn't sold at every street corner.

Mouton Rotschild is a dream.

Some people love this things and can afford them, some others love them and can't afford them. I doesn't matter wether they are or not, value for money or if their price is actually gone down in proportional or real terms. You cannot compare prices of time past with time present because the terms are so revolutionized that it makes a useless exercise even to attempt doing so. I have no quarrel with highly skilled equipement, only a small problem when it comes to overprice products which Linhof only retails under its name after having bought them from an other company. Linhof is not the only one. Many do so and frankly speaking if a company does that (I am not talking of specially selected lenses, I am more in the line of spirit levels, lens boards, Cable releases, loupes........) has only limited range before of being called a cheat. Again, this was meant friendly. Those who might feel hurt, please accept my apology, I didn't mean that. Oh! By the way!To Whoever disconnected my automatic URL at the time of my quarrel with Bob. How childish to do that! I am not hinting that this was you Bob. Whoever did that .........I simply have no words to describe the contempt with which I look at his/her action. Peace,Love and, if possible spend some time making pictures.

-- andrea milano (milandro@multiweb.nl), April 14, 2000.


Well it can be pretty easy to tell what items Linhof doesn't make. They usually start with the catalog # 02 or 03.

If you feel that items like cable releases are not unique to Linhof then, except for the pro release, you might point out one other company making the same release.

Obviously no manufacturer with as extensive a line as Linhof makes every single item. There are always sub suppliers. But these items are not the camera itself. if you feel that someone else makes a similar accessory that is as well made by all means buy it from them.

As for your computer I am afraid that that is a skill well beyond me. Have you asked your ISP?

-- Bob Salomon (bobsalomon@mindspring.com), April 14, 2000.


Off subject: The problem had nothing to do with my computer. after our little quarrel someone, again I am not implying that this was you Bob, disabled the automatic sending of all the posting to this forum. It is a rather thing to do if you have the e-mail of the person whom you want to be nasty to(obviously anyone does since it appear in any posting), once you have that you only have to fill in the form which is meant for people who are going on holliday and don't want to find a pile of e-mails generated automatically by receiving all the posting to this forum. Someone did it to me twice, I have been complaining about this with Quan-tuan Long and unfortunately there is nothin to do about it at present. Still, it happened! Whoever did it is the most childish person I can imagine and doesn't even have the guts to stand by his opinions.

Accessories come often from various sources, again, overcharging for this things is a matter of poor style, in life and business fair play is paramount

-- andrea milano (milandro@multiweb.nl), April 16, 2000.


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