This is the place for post-event Tio-Mila discussion. Look for discussion of questions like:

What do you think of OK's coverage?

What was it like to run Tio Mila?

Did Sanna miss that tricky control in the green? What happened?

What in the world is the Tio Mila?

-- Michael (meglin@juno.com), April 30, 2000

Answers

This is a translated article from Dagens Neyheter (a big Swedish paper).

Halden took its third straight Tiomila

"The Long Night" of Tiomila orienteering is more surrounded by myths and legends than all other orienteering competitions. The night leg, which was 15.9 km this year, in technically and physically demanding terrain at Vretagard, west of Gnesta, challenges its men.

25-year-old Vystein Kristiansen, from the Norwegian club Halden SK, wrote his place in history among the legends of The Long Night. He went out 20 minutes behind the leaders, but came to the finish in the lead and set up the Norwegian club's third straight victory.

Halden SK, the winner in both 1998 and 1999, was in a very tough position after less succesful 2nd, 3rd, and 4th legs. The distance to the lead was 20 minutes -- about three kilometers. Vystein Kristiansen, a national team runner, ran it all back. Halden never lost its lead after that.

"There are absolutely too many runners who trust the other runners during the Long Night. [a non-forked leg.] To succeed you have to be responsible for your own orienteering. That is what I did. At the same time I was able to see that there are a lot of runners with poor orienteering skills on this particular leg," said Kristiansen, who went from 54th place to the lead.

The lead during the last five legs varied from several minutes up to ten minutes. Still, it was close at the end. IFK Lidingv and Malungs OK took up the chase through Swedish national team members Johan Ndsman and Jimmy Birklin.

With 2 Km left, the difference was just one minute -- but then the Swedes each missed a control, while Halden's anchor runner Bernt Bjvrnsgerd, a relay world champion, got his orienteering to go better.

Halden was able to, for the first time in Tiomila's 57-year history, win for three years in a row. But, the Tiomila is something extra- important in the club. [Much like the US relay champs for OK].

This was the 30th year in a row Halden has had a team at Tiomila. No other non-Swedish club has been at the race that long.

In the fight for 2nd place, IFK Lidingv outsprinted Malung.

"It was too bad I missed the 5th control from the finish," said Malung's Birklin. "Otherwise we'd have caught sight of Halden and might have had a chance to really fight for the victory."

Lidingv was also second in 1996 and is still waiting for a victory. For Malung third place is the best ever. Other wise there were not many Swedish successes. Leksans was 7th and Orion was 12th. That was all the Swedish clubs among the top 15. Clearly the Norwegians and Finns thrived better than the Swedes in the record warm April night (Sweden's warmest since 1859)....[The article goes on a few more sentences, but I've lost interest....so the translation ends here.]

-- Michael (meglin@juno.com), April 30, 2000.

In case you missed the end, IF Thor 2 finished up in 140th.

What is really interesting is that, although his name is badly butchered, it appears that Swampfox ran the anchor leg for the number 2 IKHP team and moved his team up into 105th place after the 10th leg. He ran his leg in about 127 minutes while the top times were 90 minutes. I think that is a bigger percentage back than he has been in many races, but we'll have to hear his thoughts on how it went.

It seems that IKHP came to its senses at the last moment. Maybe Swampfox knows some of the bigger names in IKHP and they went to the mat for him and he ended up where he should rightfully have been all along.

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), April 30, 2000.

I'll put up more info at www.forestfeet.homestead.com about Tio-Mila later, but suffice to say this year Tio-Mila simply wasn't meant to be IKHP's year, at least not for the men. (The women did well, 1st team was 10th and all 3 teams in the top 100, and this without 2 of the club's 3 best orienteers!) Things got off to a bad start early in the week with 2 "skit skador" (scum injuries), when on Sunday Andreas Rangert cut open a knee and then on Tuesday Fridolf Eskilsson had a heel attacked by an aggressive, heel biting branch on the ground. Stitches were required both times and in the end both decided not to run. These were absolutely key players for IKHP, but our chances were still quite good even after making team changes to fill in the holes. Unfortunately, early in the night one of our runners (and I don't have all the details) lost contact with lead group and lost a good bit of time, meaning a subsequent runner without much night experience in recent years was running with poor company, and then our Long Night runner had to go out entirely by himself--this, while the lead group was about 50 or more teams on the same leg, including some teams with some poor orienteers on the leg but who had good running skills. Since the leg wasn't forked, they were able to do relatively very well. Our last 4 runners did really well, and the race would have been altoghether different had things just been a tiny bit different early in the race, from what I understand. But so it goes!

As for me, I was moved up to 2nd Team anchor when the teams were re- shuffled. Our team didn't have any special success, but we were doing at least ok until our 8th leg runner smashed a toe into a rock and was forced to break the race. He limped in, and we ran out the last 2 legs, and while it was fun to do that (fun to at least get to go out and run, I mean) I also knew our runner hadn't finished, so for me it was simply a training run. While it was tough orienteering, both the terrain, map, and forest were all better than I had expected, and mostly I orienteered well. It's hard to say how different it would have been had we still been in the race. I'm sure we would have been a little higher in the placings, probably in the 80s to 90s, so I would have had better runners around me, but not so different than what I had. I would have tried to push the pace harder, but mainly I would have tried to concentrate better and completely focussed on doing a really good, sharp race. There were a lot of controls, and you did need to be sharp all the way along because there were very few "gimmees". I would like to think we could have finished better than our last year's placing, which was 81, and I think we at least had good chances to fight for that.

-- Swampfox (wmikell@earthlink.net), April 30, 2000.

A quick look at the leg times and positions for the final legs--which I hadn't seen yet--and now my guess is that given where our 2nd team was going into the 8th leg, we would have had a tougher time than I had imagined getting into the 80s, let alone improve on an 81st. But, who knows? It might have been possible.

-- Swampfox (wmikell@earthlink.net), April 30, 2000.

What is Alternativet? Was this the source Mook and Mike had to the race? How were they aware of OK's presence? Congrats to Swampfox, Sanna and Magnus for good runs! I read the men's race late Sat eve. Didn't realize the tremendous effort Mook went through to follow the event. Tusen tak!

-- Mean Gene (gmw@ukans.edu), April 30, 2000.

What is Alternativet? Was this the source Mook and Mike had to the race? How were they aware of OK's presence?

Alternativet is a Swedish web page that covers orienteering. It is a very good site, but is Swedish-only. If you feel like taking a look, it is at www.alternativet.nu

When I was getting ready to go to sleep last night, I discovered that Alternativet had begun to provide live commentary on Tio-Mila. The live coverage didn't start until the last few legs because the volunteers who run the site were busy running.

Just before I went to bed, I put a note on the Alternativet discussion board -- I explained that OK was providing live coverage. (Mook and I were mostly relying on the official site that gave frequently updated results). I also sent Mook a note that Alternativet would be worth taking a look at even though Mook doesn't read Swedish.

Mook managed to make some sense of the Swedish site, while the freindly folks at Alternativet were following Mook's work! So, to cater to the needs of OK, Alternativet went English!

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kcmo.org), April 30, 2000.

One of the teams we followed a bit was OK Skogsstrovarna. (A club I ran for back in the late 1980s). Here is a summary from the club's homepage.

"Now the year's biggest relay is over -- Tio Mila -- and it brought with it great disappointment. After several good races, the team was not able to beat Linkopings OK. We finished just 97th, which was a bit below our expectations."

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kcmo.org), May 01, 2000.

Apparently, a Swedish club (Leksand) filed a protest against the winning team -- Halden. (I've been reading some post-Tiomila discussion on a Swedish O' forum). The protest was that a runner on Halden's team took off his headlamp during his leg and gave it to someone from his club. You might remove your lamp if your leg started in the dark but then ended after the sun had come up. The protest was about the club leader being out in the competition terrain. The protest, however, was apparently not upheld -- the story is that the runner took off his lamp and left it in the competition area, but that a club leader was not actually out in the area.

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kcmo.org), May 01, 2000.

Spike wrote: Mook and I were mostly relying on the official site that gave frequently updated results

In my opinion the official site didn't update the results all that frequently. I would like to see a system in which as soon as the runner punches at the end, his time would be available to anyone in the world.

A step up from that would be to have radio transmitters at the controls that instantly send up all splits to a satellite which then sends them to various websites around the world. Then these splits could be listed instantly and one can envision various graphs and things that show how each runner is doing. I think this sort of system is ready to go, or close to ready. I'm sure we'll see some races with this sort of coverage soon.

A more sophisticated system might track each runner instantaneously through the forest much like an air traffic controller watches planes on radar. The runners could be pinpointed on a map. Of course I don't know that you want to show waiting competitors the map!

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), May 01, 2000.

I don't know about transmission time costs, but essentially everything has been developed and is in place to have real-time results from every control now. It wouldn't be much of a trick to hook a control to a cell phone and deliver results that way. Of course, in a forked relay such as Tio-Mila, you can't necessarily compare all the runners on a given leg as they're running the leg and know how they're really doing without also knowing more about the forking.

But for those who don't know it, Tio-Mila is always (almost always?) held in terrain that has already been used before since in the area that is used for the Tio-Mila, any decent terrain has long ago already been mapped, so older maps are always available. And then, you can buy the actual competition map itself--it comes in the race program booklet. So Mook's comment about not wanting to show waiting runners the map simply doesn't apply.

IKHP took the decision this year--as I think the club does every year--to observe "fair play" in the race, and among other things, this means we don't take out the competition map and start drawing in our legs and controls to try to build a picture of the courses for the runners waiting to go out.

-- Swampfox (wmikell@earthlink.net), May 01, 2000.

I retract my statement about not wanting to show runners the map.

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), May 01, 2000.

I don't know about transmission time costs, but essentially everything has been developed and is in place to have real-time results from every control now.

This may seem a bit strange, but I think it is more interesting if you don't get updates at every control. There is something special about having to wait to see what is going to happen. There is some added suspense. It is probably best to get one or two updates per leg, but I'd rather not have an update at every control.

I think Tiomila is very interesting on the radio. The Swedish radio provides live coverage. They have reporters sitting out in the woods at a couple of controls. They usually play music until a couple of minutes before the runners are expected at one of the controls. Then they cut to the reporter who describes sitting in the forest and waiting for the runners. Then the reporter gets excited as a runner comes in to view. Who is it? Is it the runner they expected? Does the runner look strong? Does the runner miss the control? After the top few runners have gone through, they cut back to music. It may sound silly, but it is actually quite good.

While Mook and I were following the race on-line, you got some of that same suspense. Mook would tell me that the results should be ready in a few minutes. We'd wonder what would happen? Who'd be in the lead? Would the lead be big or small? When we knew Magnus' would be starting soon, we could imagine Magnus -- looking a bit nervous -- jogging around the exchange area.

If you got an update every control, or could watch a little dot moving around the screen, you'd lose some of that suspense.

Sometimes there is a long time between legs that could be filled with interviews with runners who'd already finished. It would have been interesting to hear an interview with Haldens Long Night runner while we waited for the sixth leg runners to complete their courses.

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kmco.org), May 01, 2000.

I agree practically in toto with Spike's comments about the charm of having only occasional reports from the forest, as contrasted with the possibility of having constant updates from every single control. However, I think it is inevitable that the direction of reporting will move more and more towards continuous updating from the forest. It seems the normal tendency of society/mankind is to begin using new technology as soon as it becomes available, regardless of whether it makes any sense.

-- Swampfox (wmikell@earthlink.net), May 02, 2000.

Here is another use for earplugs. You can have the results any way you want them - instantaneously and continuously, or you can wait to take your earplugs out for a couple minutes every half hour. I think it would be good to have live TV coverage of the Tio-Mila in the US. Some small network could do it as some are now covering events like the Tour de France live, all day - that wouldn't have been done a few years ago - now there is a specialty network for many different things. I would embrace trends towards making o' a more widely appreciated spectator sport.

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), May 02, 2000.

I have "watched" a few KU basketball games on the web. I must say I much prefer the TV versions. For instance the last game of the year I had to watch KU lose to Duke on the web. When I saw KU was ahead with a couple of minutes to go, I thought things would work out. They didn't. I felt a bit helpless not being able to do anything about it. On TV I could have seen when the dookies were shooting free throws and could have influenced their results, I believe. Watching a game live gives me a greater stake in it and I remember it more. I feel better about it.

-- Mook (everett@psi.edu), May 02, 2000.

Courtesy of Magnus, scanned copies of an old map of the area where Tio-Mila was held. I believe the three files are all the same map, but are scanned at different resolutions.

http://www.ifthor.c.se/orientering/features/10mila/10mila_72.jpg

http://www.ifthor.c.se/orientering/features/10mila/10mila_150.jpg< p> http://www.ifthor.c.se/orientering/features/10mila/10mila_300.jpg< p>

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kcmo.org), May 02, 2000.

It was very interesting to read your 10mila coverage... o'news cosmos - Finnish orienteering netpaper - will follow the world's best orienteering relay Jukola relay in June live in internet. Since all our readers are present in Jukola, there is no sence to make this service in Finnish. Thus we decided to do it in English. Probably you will suffer because of our poor language skills but anyway it might be good idea to visit our web-site on 17th-18th June.

Heikki Levonen o'news cosmos http://personal.inet.fi/urheilu/cosmos cosmos@sunpoint.net

-- Heikki Levonen (cosmos@sunpoint.net), May 02, 2000.

Thank you Magnus for the view of the map. It's an inspiration to see such wonderful terrain. I'd be more prone to train more often knowing I'd have to tackle terrain like that. I think Mark Maher had a great time on the more complex terrain in New England. He had a few booboos but recovered - never totally out of it (certainly better than me being lost for awhile at Cle Elum 2 years ago. The Tio-Mila terrain is certainly a graduate-level of mapreading compared to Shawnee Mission Park.

So are we going to follow the Jukola in June?

-- Mean Gene (gmw@ukans.edu), May 02, 2000.

Some news from IF Thor's homepage (i.e. Magnus and Sanna's club)...Magnus has moved up 4 places in the club's relay rankings. In the report of the Tiomila, Sanna got a note of thanks:

"Ingert, Dorthe and Sanna made a strong contribution [to the men's team's efforts]. They stayed awake all night, kept an eye on the men, and kepts us fed with sausages and bananas"

-- Michael (mike_eglinski@kcmo.org), May 03, 2000.