How to plan for a move to the country/ what to think about

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I would appreciate any advice or wisdom any of you could give me. I guess I'll start out with a little about myself. I'm a forty-something single black male living in the southern US. Some college, 10 years in the mlitary and in the real world worked as a manager and a technician. I have struggled for a long time and now finally got a pretty good job after running my own business for some years. I guess I should be thankful (and I am) but, because of the economic turmoil of the past 25+ years in this country, and what has happened to me (you name it... layoffs, restructuring, downsizing, underemployment...it has happened to me) and because of this, I will never trust a job again. I'm sick of the politics, and seeing good people getting the short end of the stick in the modern workplace (especially older workers). I know that we live in good times, but they won't last forever and I want to make sure that I won't be left out in the cold again. I grew up on a farm, and I feel it made me more self reliant, and gave me some good values. I work hard and do good work (I always have) but I'm no longer interested in climbing the corporate ladder. My career goal now is to become a greeter in the local walmart:) I make a good living now, more than adequate to live off of and put some back. Terrible credit,(which I'm cleaning up) but not a lot of outstanding debt. I'm slowly buying some tools and I'm pretty good with my hands. I'm lucky that the type of job I have I can learn anything vocational under the sun (welding, industrialelectricity, computers.. you name it). I live in a city where after you get 15-20 miles out, you're in the country.

I want to SLOWLY "wean" myself off the corporate trough and buy some land (5-10 acres) and start homesteading, but with a twist. I know I have to work somwhere, but blend partime/seasonal work with a small business. I have a few connections with some entrepenuers/employers in this city and could easily make a modest living. I started my last business with not enough captal and I'm a LOT wiser on what it takes to run one. I want to plan this thing out first and would love to hear from people who have done something like this, like what would you do different, realistic expectations, things I can do now to get prepared, pitfalls, ect. Thank you for your advice and input!!!

-- george smith (mocrums@webtv.net), May 02, 2000

Answers

HI George , I would suggest going to school .My hubby is going for instamentational{SP} he is an electrician now .With those degrees under his belt he won't have to work a 9-5 job .There is also very good money in it .What would interest you ? Doing something you like is also important. Keep collecting tools you can never have enough .Lots of people in the country will owner finance , so your credit rating won't matter as much .Buy as much land as you can afford.You can never change or make your A grow , but you can always change or expand your house .And last of all read , read , and read ! Good luck

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), May 02, 2000.

Carla Emery's book,"Country Living" is wonderful and worth the price..she has stuff in there that I never wanted to know (butchering), but it is comprehensive and has hundreds of pointers about choosing land, financing, working, etc....I think it is just what you need for right now...Good Luck !!!!!

-- Lesley Chasko (martchas@gateway.net), May 02, 2000.

George: Of course you should read and listen to all the advice your going to get but if your like me you got to jump right in and see what happens! Thats what I would do but I would rent out in the country first. That saves the time of selling your first mistakes! It really makes my head spin all the stuff to learn not only physically but mentally. But I don't mean to make it sound bad! Its so much fun to go through the learning, the ups and downs, if you can manage to do it somehow without the stress. All the people I know who failed did so because they bit off more than they could chew. No humor and to much stress! This morning I was sitting outside with my coffee, everythings green, the birds were singing just for me, completely at peace. Go for it and welcome to our world!.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), May 02, 2000.

Hi, George -- do you have a subscription to Countryside Magazine? That's my first advice, second is to frequent this forum!!! A pitfall would be paying too much for your land, then being stuck working long hours (my husband is working seven days a week right now) and coming home too tired to do anything towards your goals of self-sufficiency. If I can convince him to get his hand out of the monkey-trap, we'll be selling this place this summer and starting over from scratch someplace cheaper. We do have a very small fixed income coming in, it will be enough to live on if we are very careful and do everything ourselves. (He's a forty-something white male with ten years in the military, and some more-or-less useful skills, so there are some parallels here:-) Anyway, if you are careful (see the frugal living websites) you can probably buy some land close enough to commute to your job, and gradually meet your goals with it. But you'll pay more for your land, because so many other people have the same thing in mind. Is there any way you could telecommute? Then it wouldn't matter how far out in the boonies you went, as long as you had a phone line and a modem! It's harder to do it by yourself, but probably easier by yourself than with a reluctant spouse. Anyway, stick with this forum for a while, and it will at least provide moral support! Good luck.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 02, 2000.

George, we (husband and I)thought about the big move quite a while before making it. We worked at jobs we didn't really enjoy that much, but that paid the best that we could get without compromising our values too much. When we moved to the country, we kept those jobs for a long time...commuting and being tired a lot. We really wanted to get financially set as much as possible before the inevitable burnout occured, which we could see on the horizon.

We set up an "end game" goal plan, which was based on what we thought we would want to be doing in 20 years (we were 30), and then backed out smaller goals into 5 year breakdowns. An example would be that in 20 years, we wanted to feed ourselves, own our own self sustaining farm, be totally out of debt, be in good health, know most of the people in our community, etc.. We "walked backwards" from there to create the other goals. Like: 5 years, not work weekends, learn small livestock husbandry,etc.

I guess the important things that I am trying to suggest are: 1)Keep your day job, even if you hate it, UNLESS you can make the same $$$. 2)Get out of debt as soon as you can, and stay out of debt. 3)Have goals, so you can feel in control, and not overwhelmed! It helps us to realize that while we don't butcher or know how to fix a tractor yet (15 years into it) there's plans for it sometime ahead, so we don't worry about it prematurely. And conversely, when we feel down, we can remember that we did accomplish what we set out to. There is power in that.

Yes, we have revised our plans many times, but not in a huge sense. I am going back to school, which was never in our plans, but we need to get to a point where a small income (mine) could float my husband starting his own business to work from home. Both of us want to work part time from home. We like to travel once or twice a year, and need money and connections to do that. We can pretty much see doing that, since we have been meeting our objectives.

You sound like you have got it together, so good luck to you, and please stay around the forum and let us get to know you!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), May 02, 2000.



Welcome, George, and good luck in your endeavor to move beyond the sidwalks! I would add that while you are looking for land, if you can't find a place to rent first, be sure there is water available on the property you consider. You probably don't have as much problem with that in the South as we have out here on the plains, but here, a lot of folks have gotten suckered into buying property that seemed reasonable, but then found there was no water to be had, no matter how deep a well was drilled. There are lots of good folks on this forum, some of us are more skilled and knowledgable in one area than another, but you can always get an answer, or at least some stimulating "conversation" on this forum, which might trigger other things to think about. Good luck to you! Jan B

-- Jan B (Janice12@aol.com), May 02, 2000.

Hey George,

One of the things that you might try doing is stocking up, Maybe food is not a big issue for you, but what about all those things that can eat at a pay check like shampoo, aspirin, that new pair of shoes, because the old ones just fell apart.

Yes I did stock up on a lot of things for the Y2K issue, but the side effect of that was when the first of the year rolled around and there was a lot of sickness and bills ($13,000. in uninsured hospital bills for an operation we found out how lucky we were to have the everyday things around. It is amazing how a tube of toothpaste, or dish soap can eat at a budget when you only have gas money left. It also lets you buy things when they are on sale, and not on a run out of full price item. This would give you some leave way when you do make the move.

Good luck. Beth (NC)

-- Beth (NC) (craig@icu2.net), May 02, 2000.


If you are going to buy the land, but not move onto it right away, why not plant some fruit and nut trees,so that when you mave onto it, they will be bearing already, or closer to bearing than they would be if you waited. Bear creek nursery is a very good and affordable place to buy trees from, I have bought peach and nut trees for a little over $2.00 each!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), May 02, 2000.

WOW!!!!! I am overwhelmed by the responses. Thank you all very much.

-- george smith (mocrums@webtv.net), May 03, 2000.

George-After 5 years on our farm, I can think of several things I would advise. First ask around about things like the price of fence, building supplies and feed. Fence can put you out of business the first year if you arent prepared for the cost. You cannot operate a subsistence farm without fence for livestock and to keep everybody else critters out. Know your local feed dealers and ask about the best prices but also be sure you are getting the best feed for your stock. We lost animals when our feed dealer changed his recipe. It didnt have the protein our animals needed. Have some basic shelters built with room to grow before you buy animals. Have some equipment like tractors and planting equipment. Most importantly handle your farm like you have been trained to handle business-have a plan, plan on how much and what kind of livestock you want, what crops you will grow and how much time, energy, and money you are willing to invest. Farming is not for the faint of heart. The better your plan the more successful you will be

-- Susie Stretton (nightsong@beci.net), May 04, 2000.


George, all of the answers are very good about the essence of getting into homesteading but one thing I wanted to point out is that you mentioned you have terrible credit. If you think that some entrepreneurs are going to invest in you when you still have bad credit, you are mistaken or they are very stupid. You mentioned that you learned from your mistakes but you are going to have to prove it before they will take a risk with you. If you are not willing to get your credit back on solid ground then you should forget anyone investing in you. And since income is going to be critical, you should consider other avenues as well. Just a thought.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), May 08, 2000.

George, it sounds like you really have it together and can see your positives and negatives quite clearly -- the first step for success, Know thyself! I am really puzzled by your statement that your career goal is to be a greeter at Wal-Mart because isn't the greeter usually a person who is in a wheelchair or has some major impediment to working? Aren't the greeters the lowest-paid jobs? It's hard to tell if you were being sarcastic or sincere on that one since the rest of your post has a different tone.

What you might consider doing is paying for psychological testing to see what sort of "career" (meaning well-paid job you would like) would fit your needs for freedom and self-expression, keep you outdoors in the country, utilize your military training and background, and give you space since you obviously don't seem to be the kind of guy who wants to be penned up in an office or working for the postal service.

Perhaps you could be a forester or game warden?

To rebuild your credit you need a good income and a steady one. You can always make a second income from a home business.

One way to save money and get experience would be to find a job where the "living" is included, such as a caretaker on an estate. Being single has some advantages and some disadvantages in this kind of work.

At 40, it's time you found yourself and somehow from your message, you sounded like a much better person to me than a greeter at WAl-Mart. But then, I do not like to even go IN Wal-Marts! Can't stand the noise and the crowds. Can't imagine working in one. that would be heavy-duty torture for me.

One thing I would suggest is, you can make quite a bit of money and have lots of different and very interesting work experiences if you go to a temp agency. Go to SEVERAL and get on all their lists because you can't count on just one. You can be doing book-keeping one day and demonstrating foods in a Sam's the next day and coloring oil maps the next day ....

As to buying land -- well, the first thing to do is see where you want to buy it, in what state and do you like mountains or plains or ocean or really want to stay in the south. That is a very big topic. Perhaps you could barter for land but most people need money to buy it. There are all sorts of clever ways to buy foreclosed or seized property at a giant discount but you really need a stash of cash for that.

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 08, 2000.


Elizabeth, if someone really feels the need of career guidance, it can often be found for free at a community college. I certainly wouldn't pay for psychological testing -- psychology/psychiatry is the biggest snake-oil business around!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 09, 2000.

Community college career counseling? Based on what? The counselor would need some data and a good way to obtain the data is with some testing. This might be snake oil to a person who already has clear preferences and abilities and has excluded many of the possibilities out there on the planet, but for a person with a wide range of potential who is capable of abstract thinking, the testing can be quite relevatory and is an excellent investment.

So for you, it's snake oil. For me, the testing was quite helpful at a critical time in my life and the investment repaid itself many times over.

-- Elizabeth Petofi (tengri@cstone.net), May 10, 2000.


Elizabeth, I didn't mean that the testing was snake oil -- only that you wouldn't have to pay for it, as it is available for free at most community colleges. I meant that Psychology/psychiatry is snake oil - - i.e. not science, and usually they do more harm than good. Do you know how many psychiatrists there are in schools nowadays? And the schools keep going down hill. That's only one example -- they cause a lot of problems -- and I've never met a person in that profession who was all right mentally themselves. I think it attracts people who have problems -- or the training *causes* problems. Maybe both. Anyway, sorry if that's what you do for a living, but . . .

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 10, 2000.


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