Ajax vs. Feyenoord - "The Classic"

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-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000


A nice edition of The Classic took place in the Italian Lounge, Aron Winter's Italian restaurant in the town of Lelystad, where a team consisting of Winter, Rafaël van der Vaart and Henk Timmer played a darts game against a feyenoord team consisting of pierre van hooijdonk and thomas buffel. They wore their Ajax and feienerd jerseys. A company named HD Sports came up with the idea. Both teams were coached by a top darts player from The Netherlands. Ajax was coached by Co Stompé (Amsterdammer), f-word by Francis van Hoenselaar (rotterdammer).

Maybe feienerd should consider to become a darts team instead of a football team. Van der Vaart lost to both feienoorders. Henk Timmer set the record straight by winning twice: 2-2. The final 'double', between Van der Vaart/Winter and van hooijdonk/buffel, had to bring the decision. The feienoord duo won quite easily, to clinch a 3-2 over-all victory.

As usual, The Classic was a true battle. All players did everything to ruin the concentration of the opponents: coughing, yelling, pushing, pulling and even throwing darts to each other's feet. No yellow or red cards were given - perhaps because there wasn't a referee.

For a few pictures of the darts-Classic, check this page on Ajax.nl.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2002

I saw your comments on the web site and you thought that no one would be able to understand what you wrote.

Well, let me tell you that you are wrong. Some of us can read Dutch and English. But then again, being a Feyenoord person, you would not understand that because there is no way that a Feyenoord person is able to learn more then one lanuage. In fact, you probable have problems with the Dutch language.

Also, take a look at the standings in the Eredivisie. I see Ajax in 1st place and your Feyenoord team in 3rd place. Plus Feyenoord is out of the Champions League and Ajax is still playing.

So before you make posts to web sites, think about it first. But then you are a Feyenoord person. You can't think.

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2002

And I'd rather be 7 points up and still in the CL.

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2002

Believe it or not, FSW did show highlights to this game a few days ago. And also showed footage of the brutal tackle on Wampie. Sigh, us poor souls, in the land of the plenty and the free, can only dour on a 1 minute highlight footage to summarize our Ajax' 02-03 season thus far...

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002

Cool, i figured as much. Thanks to all. Im tying to learn as much dutch as possible....tough language though. Ok, heres another question along the same lines, how do you pronounce Ajacied? is it aye ya(ja)seed?

-- Anonymous, October 08, 2002

In addition to the previous posts: the encouraging Dutch word 'hup' has become a little old-fashioned and is hardly heard in football stadiums nowadays. If you would suddenly stand up from your seat in the ArenA, yelling "Hup Ajax!" - that would be kind of funny, as if you were yelling "I say, let us advance, gentlemen!"

However, the word lives on in Ajax' official club anthem, The Ajax March, with its beautiful archaic lyrics: "Hup Ajax, hup red and white horde! Brave fighters, proud and bold. No club can equal us; red and white, our champions!"

-- Anonymous, October 08, 2002

Hi Dan! "HUP AJAX" means something like "GO AJAX". Just a phrase to support our beloved Ajax. Check also Jim's great license plate


-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

'Hup AJAX' means something like 'Come on AJAX' :)

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Great win yesterday, can only imagine what it would have been like to be able to watch it on FSW....:( One question, ive seen people mention "Hup Ajax" a few times here, pls forgive my ignorance, but what the heck does that mean?

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Talk about someone getting their just desserts. Footballnl.com reports that Paul Bosvelt picked up a strained muscle in his leg yesterday . He may have to miss the Euro 2k4 fixture ,in the event it is played close to the 16th date,in Austria.I usually don't wish bad luck on any player. But Bosvelt? I'll make an exception after his hatchet job on Pipo yesterday.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

That's a very fair and gentleman-like analysis indeed.

Strange: the match reports on Feyenoord.nl are very good as well. Always fair; never 'blind'. The editors of Feyenoord sites are apparently very untypical Feyenoord fans. It's very hard to have a reasonable conversation about Feyenoord and/or Ajax with the average Feyenoord fan, is my experience.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Interesting article on Yesterday's Game:

Feyenoord outclassed October 6, 2002

All of the good shape Feyenoord seemed to be in a few weeks ago, has disappeared. Ajax were the better side this afternoon on almost each single aspect of the game.

They were more aggressive, their positional play was better, their ball handling skills exceeded those of the Feyenoord players by far and especially: they defended so much better than Feyenoord.

Especially in the first half the defending of Ferry de Haan and Tomasz Rzasa was appalling and Ajax speeded away to a comfortable lead in the first half. Feyenoord were lucky it was only two, as it could easily have been four or five.

With Kalou and Van Persie in the second half for Buffel and Pardo Feyenoord put Ajax under pressure but always had to be aware of Ajax' dangerous counter attacks. Van Hooijdonk drew one back and then missed another massive chance to the equalizer fifteen minutes before the end. Ajax' victory was deserved and Bert van Marwijk should take part of the blame for opting for De Haan in the center. What a disaster!!!

Where did this article come from - from the Rottendammers themselves on www.feyenoord.net

Very complimentary and fair I thought.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Yeah, yeah... I know. It was a concert by Ja Rule and it was terrible. But hey, it's my job, remember? :-)

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Hip hop? Man,at least I got to see Violent Femmes in the run-up to the match. Now that is a way to spend an evening!But,I digress.

Just to kick a Rottingdam dog when its down, look at the injury list of players who didn't have the chance to line-out yesterday:van der Vaart, van der Meyde(flu), Sikora,Heitinga, O'Brien.The F-word must have had good feelings before hand. So now its match time.Ajax included several playing "nobodies"(he said sarcastically) who weren't 100% in Chivu and Litmanen. Last, Ajax suffered injuries of one type or another; Pipo, van Damme, and Trabelsi; during the game .

Playing at home , against an injury riddled squad that looked more like the injured extras in a hospital drama series,and with an inform van Hooijdonk and a line-up missing only van Wonderen, the dogs took the gas pipe.

The dogs seemingly had alot going for them. All except class on the pitch, exemplified by Zlatan, Jari, Stephen,Cristian ,etc.;a great work ethic; a ton of heart; more guts than a Philadelphia lawyer(if you saw one in action, you'd understand); a Captain who led from the front; and more willpower. They seemed to, from what I've read, tell the F-word: It's our will against yours and you WILL LOSE.

HUP AJAX!! Enjoy your rest lads. You sure have earned it.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Menno?!?HipHop concert?!?Well,i just came back from a hiphop club to be exact,but i never thought that Mr.Menno is a hiphop fan...Maybe you can write some rhymes about today's victory... ;-)

Peace.I'm out... :-DDDD

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

Well,well,well... what a difference a few days makes. No dissenting voices to be heard anywhere about the skills of Ashen-faced Tight- lipped El Supremo, Mr Koeman. Sounds as though somebody did his homework correctly and picked up 100% marks. Congrats to Koeman and his coaching staff on this one. BTW, personally speaking, I view the Eredivisie games with the same importance as CL - finish outside the top 2 this year and no CL place next year.

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

By the way: I thought today's referee, Mr Roelof Luinge, was very, very poor and also very, very annoying. It was absolutely ridiculous that paul bosvelt got away wothout (at least) a yellow card for kicking Wamberto out of the game with a truly hideous foul. He hit him full on the shins with his boot. Pipo had to be replaced minutes later.

Also, Hatem Trabelsi was fouled in disgusting style by (I believe) tomas rzasa. That should also have been a yellow card - at least.

But Mr Luinge (the only Dutch referee who's even worse than The Dickster) did not feel like pulling the cards out of his pocket. That's what I thought anyway. Until Jelle Van Damme was booked for... throwing away the ball after Luinge had whistled.

This made no sense to me. Luinge always does that: he gives yellow cards for 'talking' and other non-violent, rather innocent forms of misconduct. Fair enough, but he should (of course) also use his yellow card for disgraceful attacks on players' legs. By not doing so, he turned justice upside down, if you ask me.

Anyways - today we can luckily say: who cares...? ;-)

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

It's 20:32 and I'm next-door to the ArenA right now, in the Heineken Music Hall, for a hiphop concert. The show hasn't started yet, so I decided to just pop into the (free) Planet Internet Lounge, just to say YEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHH!!!

Ta-ta :-)

(Nothing can ruin my mood tonight)

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002


Just returned from rottingdam. What a great, great game by our boys. They completely played the feyenerds off the park in the first half. Half-time score could and maybe should have been 0-4. It was almost embarrassing. Seriously.

The F-Word played better in the second half and created a few chances, but still: Ajax had more chances, even in the second half. A superb victory, with a truly brilliant Litmanen-Zlatan duo, a spectacularly good Steven Pienaar and a relatively quiet and easy afternoon for the defenders.

Great!!! This is so good. I know: the Champions League is more important and stuff, but purely as a game, a win in de kuip is the best thing there is. I never 'feel' Ajax goals like I do over there: when the chance is coming, it feels as if the oxygen is getting sucked out of me. Then, it goes in... and it feels like a shot of heroin kickin' in (that's what it must feel like anyway). It feels like when you're aboard an airplane and there's some turbulence and the aircraft makes a twenty yard drop or so. Your stomach... as if it's coming up your throat. But in a pleasant way. That's what an Ajax goal in de kuip feels like.

It's so fucking addictive. I'm still high on it.

And the greatest thing is: I missed the 3-1 defeat in the 1999-2000 season. Work, or something. I don't remember. I wasn't there for that one. Which means I'm still 'unbeaten' at de kuip. Just like Jari. I've been there numerous times now. Never lost :-)

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

What a great result, especiaaly as I had them to win @ 9/5. Listened to the game on Dutch radio sitting in the car on the drive - only decent reception that I could get. Couldnt understand 99.99999% of the commentary, but got the jist of it, especially the way you couldnt hear the F-Word fans ( seemed to signify that ajax had the best of it especially in the first half ) and the celebrations for the goals. Hup Ajax

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002


The week end results are simply perfect. Plus a victory vs Fakenerds always gets a particular flave....Go Ajax !!!! Aim for the double !!

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

GREAT!!! I can't wait to watch the game later tonight!!!

5 points ahead of the F-Word. Not too bad of a start this year!

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002


Once again we saw that Zlatan is an artist that needed to be more cooperative in order to offer to the team.What i see in the last games is that he passes a lot more than in the past.So a system with Zlatan in the team and a better scorer near him(Mido,Nikos or Wamberto [in a 4-3-3]),can really work...

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!!!!!! 1:2.Bedankt Pipo en JARI.Jari,The F-word killer, now has 9 goals in 8 career games v. the Rottingdam side.Not too shabby.

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

Alright, I'm off to the ArenA, where the trains to rottingdam will depart at 10:00 AM...

Now psv has lost two points (could have been three) at NAC, Ajax has the chance to join psv at the top of the table. If we do, the F-Word will be six points behind both Ajax and psv.

Thanks to yesterday's psv result, the damage is not too serious if we lose: in that case, we'll have the same number of points as the feyenerds, with psv three points ahead.

Let's GO now. GO AJAX!!!

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2002

An interesting and very nice little fact, as reported by Ajax Netwerk:

Tomorrow's Classis will be the 47th in rotterdam's 'de kuip' since the start of professional football in The Netherlands (1955). Ajax won 15 of the 46 'rotterdam editions' of the Classic played so far. The hosts won 16 times. 15 times, feyenoord vs Ajax ended in a draw.

This means (drum fill, please!) that a win in tomorrow's game will level the all-time, over-all score in (professional) Classics played in de kuip!! Which would be a fact to be very proud of, if you ask me (can you hear yourself saying, in an argument with a feyenerd fan: "Aaaaah man! You don't even win more frequently in your own city!"

Let alone in Amsterdam!

For you information: so far, 47 'Amsterdam editions' the Classic were played: 25 wins for Ajax, 10 for feyenoord, 12 draws, and a goal difference of 114-59 in Ajax' favour. An enormous difference.

The total balance since the start of professional football: 93 Classics played, 40 wins for Ajax, 26 for feyenoord, 27 draws. It is also very remarkable that Ajax scored almost 25% more goals in Classics than feyenoord: 199 vs 150 since 1955 (yes, an Ajax goal tomorrow would be the 200th professional goal against the F-Word!).

In comparison to other 'classics' in Europe (Celtic vs Rangers, Real Madrid vs Barcelona, AC Milan vs Inter and what have you), the historic difference between Ajax and feyenoord seems to be fairly large.

Statstics, statistics. They're worthless and useless, but they can be very nice... :-)

-- Anonymous, October 05, 2002

To further the cause of eternal friendship between the 2 great clubs, well one club anyway :

If s**t were snow, De Kuip would be a ski resort

The Feyeneerd team went to a top class hotel in preparation for the Cup final. At the pre-match meal, the manager was first to order and went for steak and potatoes. "What about the vegetables?" inquired the waiter "Oh, they'll have the same" he replied.

Two Feyeneerd mates walking down the road in Rotterdam when the came across a card in a chemists window which read FOR SALE – F-WORD SEASON TICKET - ONLY €10 - They were amazed. "That's a right bargain" said one Feyeneerd to the other "I'll go in and get it". A few minutes later the Feyeneerd comes out re-faced holding a packet of Durex. "Why have you got a packet of Durex" his pal asked "Well, I was too embarrassed to ask for a Feyeneerd season ticket" replied his pal.

Did you hear about the Feyeneerd fan who studied for three days for a urine test?

Van Hoodwink & Van Pussie walk into a sports bar giving each other high fives and screaming "51!". Another player joins them and the scene repeats with high fives and very excited screams of "51 yeah!" A bystander is so curious that he has to ask the question, "What are you players so excited about and what does this '51' mean?" One of the players explains proudly "We just finished a puzzle in only 51 days and the box said '3 to 5 years!'"

Well that should do the trick.

Good Luck Lads on Sunday

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2002

F.Y.I. On the state of Holland and Dutch football.....

From: The Times on-line: Growing threat of going Dutch by Simon Kuper

Recent events have seen the liberal image of The Netherlands take a battering IF YOU WORK IN DUTCH football, you have a decent chance of being sent bullets in the post (recent victims include Guus Hiddink and Frank Rijkaard). If you go to certain Feyenoord matches, you can listen to thousands of people around you singing: “Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas chamber.” If you attended the Dutch equivalent of the Community Shield last Sunday, you had to wait an hour and a quarter for the kick-off, because PSV Eindhoven fans had hijacked their own team’s bus.

The Netherlands used to be a tame place, where the Prime Minister lived in a terraced house and cycled to work, where fans trying to rile Johan Cruyff would daringly chant “Nose!”, and where no one had thought of fighting at football matches until Tottenham Hotspur fans did so at the Uefa Cup final of 1974 in Rotterdam.

Dutch life has been growing nastier since. The latest escalation can be dated to the day last November when Pim Fortuyn, the gay magazine columnist, entered politics. Fortuyn was funny, original, but above all nasty. He called Islam “a backward religion”, and savaged other political parties, saying they had left the country “in ruins”.

No Dutch politician had been so aggressive. Fortuyn stood for uncomplicated expression of feeling. Traditional Dutch restraint was discarded: if you were angry you said so, and opponents were treated as enemies. Fortuyn’s opponents retorted in kind; one likened him to Mussolini and another invoked Anne Frank’s Diary. The new harshness spread fast. Soon you could hear crude remarks about Moroccan immigrants or jokes about Jews in the politest of Dutch company.

Then, on May 6, Fortuyn was assassinated. The first murder of a Dutch politician in more than 300 years shocked everyone, but the most vociferous response came from hardcore football fans, who had felt an instinctive bond with the anti-establishment leader. On the night of the murder, riots outside parliament featured dozens of ADO Den Haag supporters.

In Rotterdam, Feyenoord supporters draped club scarves and shirts over the railings of Fortuyn’s villa. Two days after his death, Feyenoord played Borussia Dortmund in the Uefa Cup final and, during the game, the politician’s name was chanted as if he were a footballer.

Dutch life grew nastier still. Fortuyn’s friends said the Left had caused his murder by creating a “climate of hate” around him. Ad Melkert, leader of the Dutch Social Democrats, was sent countless death threats including a loaded gun. One reason Melkert’s friends are now trying to find him a job at the World Bank is to get him out of The Netherlands. Some members of Fortuyn’s party also received death threats and went into hiding.

In late May, the threats spread to football. Rijkaard, a legend of the Dutch game and manager of Sparta Rotterdam, was sent bullets in the mail. An accompanying letter blamed him for Sparta’s relegation from the Dutch first division and said that he and his family would be hurt if he stayed at the club.

Being sent bullets is something that was not supposed to happen in The Netherlands. The country had always had the lowest rate of gun ownership in Europe. But Fortuyn had just been shot. Suddenly it was credible that other public figures might be, too. When Sparta went down, Rijkaard resigned, perhaps prompted by the letter.

After the World Cup, which the Dutch sat out pretending that football did not exist, the horrors resumed. First, this month, Feyenoord’s “open day” was disfigured by anti-Semitic chants. These have come to be considered something of a yawn in The Netherlands and would normally have been overlooked, except that Feyenoord’s chairman chastised an MP for daring to complain about the singalong and Dutch TV for broadcasting it.

Then someone posted bullets to Bert van Marwijk, the Feyenoord manager. He said he didn’t mind, but he was upset by a letter threatening his family that indicated the writer knew where to find them.

A few days later, before Feyenoord’s friendly against Spurs, Uli van Gobbel, the former Southampton full back, who was retiring as a player, led the Rotterdam crowd in a rendition of “If you don’t jump, you’re a Jew”. Van Gobbel had got into trouble for singing the same song when Feyenoord won the league in 1999. By singing it again, he and the fans were showing their defiance of the Dutch establishment, of “PC”. It was the spirit of the new Netherlands.

The last week has been without parallel in Dutch football history. Nothing so passé as fighting: rather, it began with disgruntled PSV fans preventing their team bus from leaving Eindhoven for the Johan Cruyff Shield match against Ajax.

Hiddink, the PSV manager and hero of South Korea, told police he had received death threats, apparently from Feyenoord fans vowing to “eliminate” anyone standing between their team and the league title. Hiddink, who had been out of the country for years, said: “I am fairly stable, but I do think, ‘what is happening here?’ ”

Next Roelant Oltmans, the NAC Breda general manager, resigned after his house had been attacked and he and his family were repeatedly intimidated. Henk Kesler, director of the Dutch FA, who receives frequent death threats, was the latest to be sent bullets. This has apparently become entirely commonplace in Dutch football, but is almost never reported because clubs are too frightened.

Nor do they dare ban known hooligans from the ground. Michael van Praag, the Ajax chairman, has said he refuses to risk his life that way.

And so it goes on. Fans who say they are being treated like “criminals” are planning “protests” at Holland’s European Championship qualifier at home to Belarus on September 7. The railways have threatened to stop carrying football fans; Jan Peter Balkenende, the new Prime Minister, has talked of banning away supporters; the police chief in charge of football hooliganism has suggested cancelling matches; Ajax say supporters will have to show a passport, driving licence or ID card at every match. It is going to be a wonderful season.

-- Anonymous, August 19, 2002

More "bullets in enevelopes" (from "DailySoccer.com").......

Hiddink: letter went against what football should be

EINDHOVEN, August 14 (DS), by Robin Wyers--

A deeply emotional Guus Hiddink spoke yesterday of the threatening letter he had received last Saturday. The new PSV Eindhoven manager said, "what happened really is something else. It's really terrible altogether". It seems almost certain that like Bert van Marwijk and Frank Rijkaard before him, Hiddink received a letter with two bullets in it, although he was unwilling to disclose any of the exact details of the letter's content. Hiddink said, "first I thought it was a sick joke. But when I saw that it was real, I fell back in shock. Something like that totally goes against what football should be - a feast which many people enjoy where you're happy when you win and feel rotten when you lose. It should end at that, but this really is of another level".

Hiddink said that he had been threatened once before during his period as manager of the Dutch national team, which brought him into considering a move abroad. But he added, "In Spain in Turkey it's always hectic and full of emotion. It was often not nice, but it never brought fear. As hard as it all goes, there was always a mutual basis of respect". Yesterday chief editor of monthly, 'Voetbal Magazine' revealed that the magazine had received a threatening letter geared towards Hiddink last week. Stolk told De Telegraaf, "it said that the 'Korean' Guus Hiddink should watch out, because everybody who hinders Feyenoord's progress to becoming champions will be eliminated. Written down as the sender of the letter was 'Feyenoord Hooligans'".

Hiddink revealed, "it is a very emotional period. A mixture of anger and dissappointment. Beacuse I am supporter of openness, I told the players about the threat on Sunday. To be honest, I had considered not sitting on the bench, but on the stands for the Johan Cruyff Shield (Dutch Supercup). My decision to leave a lot of matters regarding coaching down to Erwin Koeman, were partly due to the threat".

-- Anonymous, August 14, 2002

They are referring to feyenoord's open day, where a group of fans chanted: 'hamas, hamas, all jews have to be gassed'...

I too find it highly unlikely that this threat comes from Ajax fans.

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2002

Saw this piece on http://www.footballnl.com/ :

"A nasty piece of news is that Feyenoord trainer Bert van Marwijk has received threats to himself and his family in recent days, a letter containing bullets being delivered to the Kuip last week, followed by a second letter. I'll spare you all the details of the ins-and-outs because I think the supposed reason for the threats (a so-called reaction by Ajax hard-core F-Side fans to the racist taunts which were vented by a small section of Feyenoord supporters during their recent open-day) is probably only a vehicle for some other 'sickie' to vent his/her own brand of poison or simply stir up trouble, much as arsonists do in their look-at-me-way!!!! The same thing happened to former Sparta trainer Frank Rijkaard toward the end of last season. There are some really, really sick people out there nowadays!"

Whose open day are they referring to ?

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2002

Apologies for this being old - but it still makes me smile!!

On a tour of Holland, the Pope took a couple of days off his itinerary to visit the coast on an impromptu sightseeing trip. His 4X4 Popemobile was driving along the golden sands when there was an enormous commotion heard just off the headland. They rushed to see what it was and upon approaching the scene the Pope noticed just outside the surf, a hapless man wearing a red & white style football shirt, struggling frantically to free himself from the jaws of a twenty-foot shark. At that moment a speedboat containing three men wearing Ajax tops roared into view from around the point. Spontaneously, one of the men took aim and fired a harpoon into the shark's ribs, immobilising it instantly. The other two reached out and pulled the red/white scum fan from the water and then, using long clubs, beat the shark to death. They bundled the bleeding, semi-conscious man into the speed boat along with the dead shark and then prepared for a hasty retreat, when they heard frantic shouting from the shore. It was of course the Pope, and he summoned them to the beach. Upon them reaching the shore the Pope went into raptures about the rescue and said, "I give you my blessing for your brave actions. I had heard that there were some racist xenophobic people trying to divide Ajax and F-Word, but, now I have seen with my own eyes this is not true. I can see that your society is a truly enlightened example of racial harmony and could serve as a model on which other peoples could follow." He blessed them all and drove off in a cloud of dust. As he departed, the harpoonist asked the others, "Who was that???!" "That," one answered, "was his Holiness the Pope. He is in direct contact with God and has access to all God's wisdom." "Well," the harpoonist replied, "he knows f--- all about shark hunting and how's that bait holding up or do we need to get another one?"


And to all F-Word fans, it looks as though from today's CL draw that you will be able to defend your UEFA Cup trophy through from the very first round ;-)

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2002

come to think of it. would it help the Dutch league in the UEFA competition if Feyenoord wins the cup? So the 4th place can go to CL too.. but i don't think we need that this year..

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2002

No, I'm not happy that F-Word advanced to the UEFA Cup final. I already bought my Borussia Dortmund scarf. It will probably the first and only time in my life to be a fanatical supporter of a German team.

By the way: you know the saying "All's well that ends well".

Just wait and see. We win the championship; you win nothing. As usual.

And you'll be soooooo frustrated. As usual.

Man, am I looking forward to it :-)

-- Anonymous, April 14, 2002

Is everyone here as happy as me that Feyenoord advanced to the final of the UEFA CUP? I mean it is great to have the best team in Holland go so far right? Well, maybe next year Ajakkes can play against Sparta in de Nacompetitie....hahaha

-- Anonymous, April 13, 2002

it was a bad day for AJAX last sunday. Not only because of the draw against our rivals, but maybe more because of the fact that PSV is coming closer to us, and they are the best playing team in holland at the moment. F$#$#"oord is no match for AJAX at the moment, but psv is. they proved that in the uefa cup last week against Leeds United. Leeds looked like some kind of amateurs against psv. So my wish is that Ajax will relegate the two points they are running ahead of psv.

-- Anonymous, March 06, 2002

Ajax deserved to win this game! If only Zlatan, Wamberto or Machlas we're able to score. Ajax was way better than feyenooit. But the story aint over yet. Jorien van den Herik, chairman of feyenooit wants to accuse Machlas for his dive!! This is completely crazy because the strikers of feyenooit do the same thing ervery game. I hope that the KNVB doesn't approve the case.

-- Anonymous, March 06, 2002

I watched Eurogoals on Eurosport too...They had Ajax vs F-word as the "top match"...But thank God a Greek speaker did the comments,so i couldn't hear the english one...And the Greek speaker said that Ajax deserved to win by 3-0 at least...So i didn't have to throw the TV out of the window...

-- Anonymous, March 06, 2002

Bloody Eurosport and especially Frank Stapleton are at it again. Watched the Eurogoal Plus programme last night which had The Classic as their main match and dear old Frankie said that he thought that a draw was a fair result as both teams attacked each other. Obviously, on Sunday I must have attended the wrong match as the one I saw, the home team deserved to win by a mile !!!!! Sorry Kilometre !!!! As an interesting point on the game , please read Menno's report on the recent Young Ajax versus Young F-Word game.Its amazing how similar the two games were.

-- Anonymous, March 06, 2002

I don't think that Zlatan is a bad goalscorer. He has scored lots of goals earlier in his career. He is just having a har time right now. I think it's because of lack of self-confidence. Let him score some easy goals and he will prove that he is worth all the money Ajax paid for him. Litmanen should be the shadow striker (or as he would say in finnish, piilo kärki). Zlatan should be on top.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

Jari is a legend.I still remember myself watching his every move like he was teaching me how to play football.One of my favorite players EVER!I've seen him play lately(well,for as long as they LET him play) and i can see that he has a lot to offer.He has always been a simple player,without doing any unecessary moves,and that's what i like to see in a football player(u know that already).Well Zlatan with Jari would be great.IF Litmanen can score for the both of them...At this moment,if Zlatan HAS to play,he needs something like Van Basten in his best form to play along with him!Cuz i can't think of nobody else that can score for two players alone.And because Zlatan is ineffective in scoring(at least now),that's why i prefer him for a shadow striker.He has the skills to become a great shadow striker.As far as i know,Jari's natural position is a shadow striker too.So if we have to choose between Zlatan and Jari,i would go for the guy from Finland...no doubt...Now if Zlatan proves he is a better scorer than Machlas,then he will surely get his position in the first 11...

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

I agree. Getting Litmanen would be great not only for Ajax but also for Litmanen. He is exactly what the club needs. I'm not only saying this because I live in Finland but also because Ajax is my favourite team and with Litmanen Ajax would be even greater.

Litmanen together with Zlatan. Wouldn't that be just great!!!

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

Not too sure that Zlatan currently has the confidence to play in the number 10 role. Comparisons will immediately be made with Raffy and I believe that this will not do him any favours at all. Is there a transfer deadline in Dutch Football - because if there isnt then I would propose that the club should pay out the £2 million NOW for Jari and not wait until the summer. This would be money fantastically well spent. In fact instead of paying over my wage packets to Menno & Jim for my failed football predictions, I wouldnt mind starting the collection for the transfer fund myself.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

I know that i was defending Nikos when he was in poor form too.Also i know that u don't share the same opinion with me for him,and that is logical,cause u haven't seen many things from him.Well,for me it's different,cuz Nikos has offered many happy moments to his Club team in Greece,his National team,and to his country (by winning the Golden Boot,and going to Ajax).So it is normal for a Greek,to have faith in him,even if he's not in a good form...But the point is,that he is not in a bad form.Can u deny that he offered many important points to Ajax?Can u deny that he is scoring very well lately?(Cmon guys 6 goals in 7 games...if we add the assist to Wamberto with Fortuna,and the dive with the F-word-hehehe-,he helped a lot in getting those two points in the last two games).He saved our ass many times in the last games and we must admit it...It is the Nikos show lately,no doubt...Yeah Andy is playing great in every game.By the way he should be called to Oranje.But playing great,doesn't mean that he manages to give the apropriate passes and crosses in EVERY game.And that's ok.I never meant that when Nikos doesn't score,it's Andy's fault.And someone said that ALL the strikers are not in a good form lately.Well if we mean the last three games i agree.But if we are talking about more than three games,u know it's not true...I was talking about Zlatan playing along with Nikos in every game.Koeman can try a different system.Zlatan will never become a better in-the-box striker than Nikos,and i'm sure about this.I also know that Ajax's future is Zlatan and Mido,not Nikos.But if Machlas is able to score,it doesn't matter if he is 40 years old!Sometimes it's great to combine youth,with experience...Yeah Zlatan made some good passes in the last game,i must agree.But u can't say his passes are great only from one game.Generally,he doesn't make quick ,simple passes,and doesn't see his teammates moving.But he can get better in this...

Conclusion:If Nikos stays in the team,and starts the season with Koeman having faith in him,and the whole team playing well(cuz we saw that everything Nikos was saying about Adriansee wasn't just excuses.He said he will be better under Koeman and he proved it in the best way...),you'll see the real Nikos Machlas.You can be sure about this..

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

In reply to Nikos' press agent ;-), I'll say this:

I think we should play the pair, Machlas as striker and Zlatan as shadow-striker, just as you say. Not because I think this is a great combination, but merely because it's the best we can do in the absence of vd Vaart. Neither strikers are showing very well lately.

Also, Machlas had a very good game on Sunday, I think. He moved well, played well with his teammates, looked solid. But I don't agree that "when Andy plays well,Nikos becomes a killer." vd Meyde has played well most every game, and Nikos has only been a 'killer' once in a while. Arguing that point with you seems hopeless, though. I commend you for your faith in Nikos' goal scoring prowess, but I don't share it. Still, I think he is the most on-form striker Ajax has right now, so he should play. But he is not the striker for Ajax' future, so you can also argue that Zlatan and Mido should be on the field. It's Koeman's Gordian Knot, I guess...

"Of course Zlatan must learn to see his teammates moving,and make some descent passes.But this may come as time goes by..."

Hm, I wonder if we saw the same game. I saw Zlatan making good, early passes which found his teammates in good position.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

First off let me thank everyone with all of the congratulations and well wishes on the birth of my son. It was very nice, and greatly appreciated.

Now for the football. I thought it was quite an exciting match yesterday, and certainly it must have been a great time for all of you guys seeing it Live.

I am happy to report that FSW had Max Bretos doing the play-by-play, and it was a pleasure listening to someone with a clue. Personally speaking, FSW should do a better job getting more qualified announcers for the future. I envy Bretos and Allen Hopkins, but they could use some rest and much needed help I believe.

Anyway about the game, Van Der Meyde is really lifting his game. He is in top form and a callup for Holland must be close for Andy. I also thought that Machlas (Your welcome Geo!) played well, and was really moving himself around a lot to make himself available. Nikos was unlucky not to score, and he also provided a pass to Zlatan who stumbled himself badly on, and wasted a golden opportunity.

Defensively it was pretty good too. Tomasson did next to nothing, and the same comment can be applied to Kalou, while the very dangerous Van Hooijdonk was kept under control also. Though I was shitting myself (So was baby Jack) when he got within range for his deadly free kicks. Fortunately he was off the mark.

I was suprised to read on dailysoccer.com that Van Halst got Man Of The Match. Is this true? I though Andy should have been. Anyway, regarding Van Halst yes he is a hardman out there, but technically very weak. His passing is atrocious too.

I also felt that the subsituiton of Leonardo for Feyenoord would be a problem for us, and he proved to be more than a handful for the defense. He turned JOB into knots and got a the fortune of Chivu's boot to aid his shot past Grim. Speaking of Leonardo I think he is a big talent, and I must give him that just due. If he gets his head on straight he could be a future star. Sorry guys for praising an Fword player, I just call it like I see it.

My only criticism would be a little too much long ball at times from the back. I also think that Trabelsi fouls way too much, and this could really hurt the team in the future as an accumualtion of fouls could leave the boys short-handed. He must become more disciplined and play under control.

I was also shocked by Koeman's decision to play Yakubu with Van Halst, (Never enough steel in the middle of the park I guess) and Nikos with Zlatan. I also think its crazy to subsitute Wamberto as he is one of the team's top players, but then again I am not in charge.

Speaking of Zlatan he is REALLY STRUGGLING. He seems very slow, and it would be better if he played closer to goal as he makes too many unecessary touches far away from the opponents goal. Again you could hear the fans getting on him, but hey its professional footballers out there, and the Ajax fans expect the best right or wrong.

Too bad you guys won't see the Cup match with PSV. They looked real good I thought at Leeds the other day really playing some good football and holding the ball well on a terrible Elland Road pitch.

Enjoy the rest of your trip.



-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I know that i'm getting really tiring mentioning this,but do you really think that we don't have a goalscorer???Have u ever thought the possibility that we don't have a player NEAR the goalscorer that we already have?I mean,when Andy plays well,Nikos becomes a killer.Or if someone else manages to give him the apropriate crosses and passes.I strongly believe that Ajax can play with Machlas as a inside- the-box striker,and Zlatan(who has better tecknique and imagination) as a "satellite" striker,partener of Nikos.Of course Zlatan must learn to see his teammates moving,and make some descent passes.But this may come as time goes by...Koeman has to experimenet a little.He is very stuck to this "4-3-3" system...Of course i agree that WE HAD TO SCORE,with all these chances.Especially Wamberto and Zlatan missed some great chances(and Nikos in some cases).But we must not forget,that in some of the previous games,we scored many times,despite the fact that we played poor games.Remember the 3-1 in the Arena,where the striker got only two chances and scored twice,and the whole team played a bad game?What i'm trying to say is that,Ajax is on top,played a great game against F%&*#$@!*,the defence is doing great,and the team is not THAT bad in scoring.Just be patient.More games to come.You never know what will happen next...

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I believe Zlatan can become that goalscorer. He just have to score some easy goals and get time on the pitch to get his selfconfidence back. He is a great footballplayer and will bring Ajax great success!

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Points well made Geo as usual, but this time I cannot agree with you. The team played really well and created a glut of chances from which they should have scored more - as simple as that. This team is currently having problems scoring as evidenced by the last 4 games when they have accumulated only 4 goals. Mind you on the other side the defence looks a lot stronger. I readily admit that games like this do come along in every season, but unfortunately the last 4 games underlines our need for a proven goalscorer.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Predicted the result as a 12 - 1 victory to Ajax in the football predictions amoungst some members, more of a joke than anything else, but, hey, if Ajax had taken their chances - you know what I wouldnt have been far out. They played the best I have seen them play this season - they were really up for this one and played the fast flowing football everybody knows they are capable of. And what a fantastic save by Grim from Van Hoodwink - out of this world. Thank goodness that we have Bergdolmo to take penalties - what an ice- man he is. A defeat by the F-Word would have been one of the biggest travesties of justice on a football field that I would have witnessed in my life. Oh how I wish for a goalscorer.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

1-1...hmm...at least we didn't loose.

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2002

Like Menno said,everything will be decided in the midfield.We must NOT lose the battle there(even though there's no Raffy available now).With no Rafael,all we need to do is to be POWERFULL(cuz we will lack creativity,like in all the matches that he was not in the squad).So,with power in the midfield,we can create some chances.I also agree that there will be a defensive system,so Zlatan will start (not 100%,but it is very possible)...But in order to win,Zlatan(or any other player) must turn ANY chances available into goals.We don't have the luxury to miss many chances in this game...Their defence has some gaps,and i believe that if we take control of the game,we can score...If we can't do it till the 70th minute again,we can sure do it with certain "subtitutes"...hehehehe...u know what i mean ;-)

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2002

I agree with Menno that Van Hoijdonk & Tomasson are a major threat, but tend to hold the view that the midfield hold the key to this match. If we can nulify their midfield it will starve the pair up front of quality ball and thus make Chivu & Bergdolmo's job that much easier. However, if Chivu is effectively put in a straight jacket by having to worry for 90 minutes about this pair then we will lose out on one of our most creative players going forward; aka the Breda game at home earlier in the season. What we must avoid at all costs is giving away stupid free-kicks around the penalty area as Van Hooijdonk is very dangerous from that sort of range. I believe that Zlatan will again be given the nod over Nikos in what I am sure will be a fairly defensive line-up.

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2002

Neither Ajax nor feyenerd are playing too well this season... They're winning their games and do well sometimes, but the average game is rather poor, really.

What makes this game intersting, tho, is the fact that (in my opinion, anyway) the best part of feyenever's team will play directly against the best part of Ajax' team: their striker couple van hooijdonk/tomasson versus our central duo, Chivu and Bergdolmo.

It's hard to predict what will happen. Van der Vaart will be seriously missed, as F-Word's midfield is pretty powerful, with bosvelt and paauwe as two dominant players. feyenoord may win the battle there.

However, feyenoord's true weakness is in the back. emerton's a good player, but dudes such as ferry de haan, tomas rzasa, gyan and van gobbel are really, really poor footballers. I'm not even talking about their defensive abilities, but about their skill, passing and intelligence as players. With Vierklau, Chivu, Bergdolmo and who knows Maxwell, Ajax most definitely has more creativity and ideas in the back. Only Tim de Cler, as a player, is an equally poor player as the average feyenerd defender.

The wingers? kalou and Van der Meyde/Wamberto are really good players. Not much difference in quality there.

To me, the crucial question is: will Chivu and Bergdolmo be able to "neutralize" van hooijdonk and tomasson?

(I think so).

-- Anonymous, February 27, 2002

W00t I've got the tickets!! Damn.. I feel good :) This is like a dream come true, finally i'm in the Arena shouting against those f*********** losers.

I hope you Ajax-usa members have already tickets, the tickets were going very fast. In less than a minute already 6 area's were sold out!!

-- Anonymous, February 14, 2002

An Ajax fan and an F-word fan both go to the toilets at a "classic" in the ArenA. After they've both done a pee the Ajax fan heads for the door and the F-worder goes to wash his hands. Looking over his shoulder the F-worder says smuggly "My mum taught me to wash my hands after going for a pee", to which the Ajax fan says "My mum taught me not to p!ss on my hands" as he walks out the door.

I'll get me coat.....

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

You never know it could happen:

Act of Bravery A man arrives at the gates of heaven, where St Peter greets him and says, "Before I can let you enter I must ask you what you have done in your life that was particularly good."

The man racks his brains for a few minutes and then admits to St Peter that he hasn't done anything particularly good in his life.

"Well," says St Peter, "have you done anything particularly brave in your life?"

"Yes, I have," replies the man proudly.

St Peter asks the man to give an account of his bravery.

So the man explains, "I was refereeing this important match between Ajax and F-Word at the ArenA. The score was nil-nil and there was only one more minute of play to go in the second half when I awarded a penalty against Ajax in front of the F-Side."

"Yes," responded St Peter, "I agree that was a real act of bravery. Can you perhaps tell me when this took place?"

"Certainly," the man replied, "about three minutes ago.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

It would never surprise me:

A man goes to watch an Ajax vs F-Word match at the ArenA. Unsurprisingly the match is completely sold out and the fan feels very pleased he has got hold of a ticket.

When the match kickoffs he realises there is an empty seat next to him. As there wasn't another empty seat in the entire ground the man wonders why this seat was empty, so he asks the man on the other side of the seat why the seat in between them was vacant.

"Well", said the second man "My wife would be sitting there but she sadly passed away last week"

"I'm sorry to hear that", said the first man, "but surely you could have given that ticket to one of your relatives or friends"

"I offered", said the second man, "but everyone I asked was busy today".

"Really", asked the first man surprised. "What are they all doing?"

To which the second man answered. "There at my wife's funeral."

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2002

What do you call one hundred f-word fans at the bottom of the sea? A good start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, January 19, 2002

A little light-hearted banter on a dark, grey, cold November evening:

Little Johnny : 'Mum I want to be a F- Word season ticket holder when I grow up' Mum : 'Make your mind up Johnny - you can't do both'

Q. What's the difference between a F-Word fan and a jet engine? A. The jet engine eventually stops whining!

Money-saving tip for F-Word Fans: 'Don't waste money on yet another replica kit, simply strap a large dildo to your forehead. It will be perfectly obvious to everyone who you support!

Why should F-Word Fans be buried 100 feet deep? Because deep down, they're really good people.

Q. What do F-Word Fans and sperm have in common? A. One in 3,000,000 has a chance of becoming a human being.

Did you hear the one about the kid who asked for a cowboy outfit for Christmas? His Dad got him a F-Word kit!

Four surgeons are having a coffee break. 1st surgeon says ‘Accountants are the best to operate on because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered.’ 2nd surgeon says ‘Nah, librarians are best. Everything inside them is in alphabetical order.’ 3rd surgeon says ‘Try electricians, man! Everything inside them is colour coded.’ 4th surgeon says ‘I prefer F-Word fans. They're gutless, spineless, heartless and their heads and arses are interchangeable’.

If two F-Word fans were drowning, and you could only save one of them, would you go to lunch or read the newspaper?

Q. You're trapped in a room with a tiger, a rattlesnake and a F-Word fan. You have a gun with two bullets. What do you do? A. Shoot the F - Word fan twice, just to make sure.

F- Word Board of Directors are sending their players for diving lessons 'cos they have heard that there are 40,000 leagues under the sea and he reckons they must be able to win one of them.

Did you hear that the UK Post Office has had to recall their latest stamps commemorating Liverpool's treble Cup trimuph. People couldn't figure out which side to spit on.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

I'm not exactly sure to who's post you are replying Ari, but I do agree: a lot of PSV and (especially) Feyenoord fans will roll over the floor laughing now Ajax is eliminated early for the third time in a row.

I can't blame them, cos I always hope Feyenoord will screw up in Europe as well. Which they always do and did again this year, by the way. They're fucking up just as badly as Ajax did and they're eliminated too, if it weren't for that weird 'continue-in-the-UEFA- Cup-rule'.

Anyway: I keep wondering why think it's so much fun to see Ajax fail, because they don't seem to be aware that all they're doing is looking in a mirror. In other words: the only thing we've been doing over the past three seasons is screwing up as badly as they always do.

The Dutch seem to have forgotten about Ajax' achievements *very* soon and they seem to think that Ajax has not achieved anything special in Europe anymore since 1995.

Which is, of course, nonsense. Ajax played another final in 1996, reached the semi finals of the Champions League in 1997 and the quarter finals of the UEFA Cup in 1998. PSV reached the quarter finals of the UEFA Cup last season. This was generally regarded as 'pretty good' in the Dutch press, which it was. But people seem to remember 1998 as a year in which Ajax was already shit, which is a bit strange.

My point is that PSV and Feyenoord almost never achieve anything in Europe. Ajax does so every once in a while (but not now) and will simply always be a club of a completely different international caliber than Feyenoord and PSV. It takes more than three poor seasons to wipe out that huge, huge, huge difference.

I don't know *when* Ajax will reach the second stage of the Champions League (maybe next year, maybe in ten years), but I *do* know that Ajax will be the first Dutch team to achieve it. PSV and Feyenoord never will. Cos they're hopeless in Europe. The first Dutch club to win an international trophy will be Ajax. Don't know when, but no-one will do it sooner.

-- Anonymous, November 01, 2001

For the record:'Feyenoord has NEVER deserved to win against Ajax' I admit, Dutch football is not what it has been but it is a disgrace to see PSV and Feyenoord making such a mess and a mockery of our way of playing in the Champions League while Ajax is a bit off for a while. We won the Champions League 6 years ago, goddamnit! After that, all the players were bought ( if you can't beat them, buy them, F****NG AC Milan!). It is time for Ajax to take charge and show f***ng PSV an f***ng Feyenoord how Dutch football ought to be played.

-- Anonymous, November 01, 2001

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay......we kicked feyenoords ass!!!!!!!!!! won 2-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Zlatan!!!!

-- Anonymous, September 08, 2001

True about Bergdolmo. I was just about to post something about it on this forum.

After the celebration of an Ajax goal (I think the second) the Ajax players were celebrating very close to the Feyenoord stands. Since the stands are very close to the pitch it was no problem for a morron to throw his lighter to the group of cheering Ajax players.

Bergdolmo got hit in the face and the wound had to be sutured. Bergdolmo was very relaxed after the incident and stated that 'it wasn't very smart of us to celebrate so close to the feyenoord crowd'. In today's newspaper he also said: "I never felt any moment of fear. I never feel any fear at all when I play soccer." And about the atmosphere in De Kuip: "In Glasgow the atmosphere was ten times bigger..."

Bergdolmo rules!!!

-- Anonymous, August 27, 2001

Someone posted to the Ajax-Listserv that, after the second Ajax goal, Bergdolmo was hit in the face by a lighter thrown from the crowd. On TV it looked like he might have caught an elbow from another Ajax player. Any more details known? If it was debris from the stands, will there be punishment for Feyenoord? Let's hope so :-)

The same post mentioned that the Ajax staff on the stands (chaiman, treausurer etc,) were attack by Feyenoord 'fans'.


-- Anonymous, August 27, 2001

Wow, man... This was just great. Finally. After the Roda JC game, Bastiaan and I were just telling each other: last season was not that bad as such (3rd, 85 goals, etcetera), but it *felt* bad because there were no victories to really celebrate: we went out of the UEFA Cup against a shit team (Lausanne), were eliminated in the very first round of the Amstel Cup (again) and grabbed only one point out of four top games (PSV, Feyenoord). All the good games (Sparta 9-0, Heerenveen 6-2, NAC 0-3) were against minor teams.

So, our main wish/demand was: a few good wins in *real* games. Games in which you *are* the winner, but - more importantly - really feel like one, too. Et voilà... The Celtic away game and this Feyenoord game were exactly what we meant. Even though we didn't advance against Celtic, the second game felt glorious. Winning at Parkhead in such sovereign fashion is a major European away performance - simple as that. And winning in Rottingdam still feels better than anything else.

The Dutch press has been criticizing Ajax from the very first pre- season game. There was nothing the team could do right and they weren't even mentioned when the candidates for the 2002 championship were discussed. And now, even though I've become somewhat critical of him myself, Co was right when he said (in response to the question whether this win had saved his 'position'): "We have had a very good pre-season campaign, we won the Amsterdam Tournament, beating the team that has now proved the best team in Europe (beating Bayern Munich for the Super Cup), we have played one very bad game and one very good game against Celtic. Is all that so bad? Journalists writing that I'm under fire, after only one game in the league, are making themselves look like complete fools."

After three weeks of Eredivisie football, Ajax is the only unbeaten team out of the 'Big Three'.

-- Anonymous, August 27, 2001

Now the result was 'given away' before the FSW broadcast anyway, I would like to say the following. Bastiaan will write the 'official' Ajax USA match report. Here's mine:



That's it. Thank you.

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2 :D

YES YES! I think the new system works great hiihihihihahahah!

Ajax Amsterdam OLE OLE!

-- Anonymous, August 26, 2001

I'm going to Rotterdam tomorrow, by 'combi train'. I have a good feeling about this one. A much better feeling than last year, anyway.

Co has sort of confirmed that Ajax will play with the same they as in Glasgow, that somewhat unusual 5-3-2 system: Grim; Trabelsi, Vierklau, Chivu, Bergdølmo, Maxwell; Yakubu, Wamberto, Van der Vaart; Machlas, Arveladze.

I really want Ajax to play with wingers, but I can understand Co's problem at this point. Van der Meyde, Ikedia *and* Van der Gun are injured, so he really has a lack of wingers. And this team played an excellent game against Celtic, so why changing it now? It resulted in good football anyway, so I don't see a problem to continue playing like this for a little while.

If Ajax can reach the same level of play and - more importantly - show the same fighting spirit and determination as they did in Glasgow, then we can win this one.

Looking forward to it.

-- Anonymous, August 25, 2001

i really hope you aren't the real connolly, i have a bone to pick with you....two goals against us in the arena this year, that's a no- no. well played,but i am diehard ajax.....sorry, not a fan of yours. nothin more bitter than the feyenoord/ajax rivalry. go ajax!

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

I like the cult-aspect of soccer. As I said one of the biggest cult- players at Feyenoord was Kiprich. Contrary to Schip, his hair definitely was not too good (which is not the case for all Rotterdammwers), but his humor was. He was "Rotterdam/Feyenoord" in the sense of being very nice, approachable and boy next door. Did you know that even when he was a big star at Feyenoord you could find his name and number in the phone-book?

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2001

Yeah... from section M (and the rest of the stadium) people were constantly taking the piss out of Van 't Schip, especially beacuse his hair always looked a little too good :-) But that was just Amsterdam taking-the-piss humor.

The funny thing is: he's now very popular, and for some reason people have started remembering him as a legendary player. Which is not true; Van 't Schip was completely shit for 50% of the time. He would definitely not have been good enough for the 1995 team, for example. Maybe that's why people loved him so much: he was not a superstar, but a human being. He digged section M taking the piss out of him: if he scored, he celebrated his goals with that section. Always good for a laugh.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2001

I do see your point and you really should be very happy you won all these prices. I think I can only dream of that. I am happy with the 3 championships, few KNVB cups and some Supercups…so respect for me as well please. My first game was at age of 4… I hope that now your Ajax-love is hurt so badly, your personal love will improve hahahah Rgds your underrating remark; that’s due to Dutch culture and mentality. We are not very good at honoring our historic heroes. If Gullit would have been an American sportsman, he would be honored and treated everywhere he would come. In the Netherlands a lot of people don’t have the respect for him he deserves. Same counts for Cruijff. In a way this Dutch “critical” mentality is good because it has helped become the rich and globally successful nation we are. But sometimes we shoul be a little be more American in praising succesfull accomplishments. Ps: I thought it was a big sport under the at that time Vak-M crowd to joke Van t Schip?

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2001

Okay - now we're talking (although I still think we constantly were, and neither of us was being *really* childish).

"Would like to stress that I was not glorifying violence."

- Okay. Accepted.

"they never stress the “Boeren” that Ajaxfans sing against Groningen, PSV etc. Isnt that discrimination either? Or the songs about the bombarding of Rotterdam during the war? Or what about the way we treat the Germans?"

- In a way: yes. But I do think no spectator or player of Heerenveen or De Graafschap is seriously offended are hurt if Ajax fans yell "boeren" (= farmers, peasants). Songs about the Rotterdam bombing of 1940 may hurt people who witnessed it - I can't deny that. I think racism tops the scale of bad things. But I have to add: I last heard it at De Kuip in the 1995 season or so. It's been six years, so let's forget that subject.

"Must see that your type of Ajax-fans is almost Feyenoord-like."

- Hmmm... think I will take that as a compliment :-)

"I have more problems with the succesfans (which Ajax obviously has most of, do not deny that)"

- Absolutely right. Although I would not call them 'success fans' (since they're still coming) but rather 'fake fans'. It annoys the crap out of the real fans. I mean: if Ajax lost, my friends are I disappointed and quiet after the game. If it was an important game (like the one against Feyenoord, recently) I have a shit weekend. There's too many people at the ArenA who are just laughing about it and are already calling on their cellphones on their way out of the stadium, babbling about all kinds of other things than the defeat they just witnessed. There's too many people leaving five minutes before game's end, so they'll reach the parking lot early enough to avoid traffic jams. Really, really annoying, and I wish those people will f*ck off. I know, I can tell there's more passion at Feyenoord. This does not necessarily mean they're louder all the time, but they seem to care more.

"Obviously Ajax has chosen to target businessmen as their spectators, simply given the fact these people have more money to spend."

- Sadly: yes.

"I am personally not of the “lets sing all match” type. I rather watch the soccer, analyse the game etc. Singing is ok but I do not come for singing to a stadium. Although sometimes you have to do the singing just to outcompete the opponent."

- That's right. I'm the same kind of fan. During home games I sing along, but I also chat with my friends and watch the game in silence. During away games I usually yell and sing throughout the game, simply because everyone does. All the 'singers' from the ArenA go to away games, which makes for a pretty noisy section, which is always fun

"It is difficult to identify with guys from all kind of countries or simply lousy players."

- Same here. I became an Ajax fan for guys like John van 't Schip, who was definitely not a fantastic player, but sort of represented everything that Ajax is: a real Amsterdammer, typical winger, fast, good skill, (too much) self-esteem, swagger and grace.

"I think for both teams the gaps with PSV are not as big as thought. (...) I would not be surprised if Ajax, if buying some good extra defenders + goalie, could become champion nxt year."

- I would be *very* surprised, frankly, but I hope you're right.

"Key point Menno is that pure love is formed during crises. You recognize that in your private life."

- Absolutely right, as far as the football is concerned. In my private life, falling in love usually *causes* a personal crisis, but anyway...

"I am proud that I was a Feyenoord-fan, when we were fighting against going down. (...) The moment you win a cup then, it is the most beautiful thing that happens to you…it’s like an orgasm."

- Yes. This proves I am not a 'success supporter'. Okay: Ajax won the national title in the first year I can remember: 1983, the year Johan Cruyff returned to Ajax. But after that, Cruyff went to Feyenoord and in the latter half of the 1980s PSV won five league titles in a row. Also, Ajax got eliminated in the first or second round of the European Cup tournaments five times in a row. Winning the European Cup Winners Cup in 1987 was great, but the club was almost dead. After that, the FIOD tax scandal followed, and the bar incident against Austria Vienna. Ajax was almost bankrupt. I didn't even realize they'd won three European Champions Cups in the 1970s, since it was completely irrelevant.

You can imagine what it feels like if your club then wins the UEFA Cup and the Champions League in three years time. If I brag about that, I'm not bragging about the trophy cabinet in the Ajax Museum, but about the fact that I've all witnessed it myself. I was already a season ticket holder. They really were 'my' cups, if you know what I mean. The incredible atmosphere at the Olympic Stadium, the away section in the empty Turin singing "We Are The Champions", Kluivert's tears after the final. I am very young (26 years old), but I have seen my team win *everything*, as I already was an 'active' supporter. That's unique. Even Real Madrid and Barcelona fans of my age can't say that.

To me, Ajax is part of that little elite of European clubs. I know they've been crap for a while now, but Real Madrid and AC Milan have both been crap for thirty years, but the world has always regarded them as two of the world's football giants. I think Holland underrates Ajax' achievements, most of the time. They don't realize what an incredible list of honor Ajax has. People in this country still regard Celtic, Benfica and AC Milan as 'big clubs', and they always will be, but apparently Ajax is not a big club anymore because they've been doing shit for three seasons... See the hypocrisy there?

What I'm most proud of, is that Ajax won *all* their international trophies with completely self-built youth teams, playing the style of football that soccer fans throughout the world recognize as 'the Ajax style'. See what I mean?

-- Anonymous, May 22, 2001

Menno, this is the kind of feedback I expect from an intelligent guy like you. This time you are not disappointing me. Would like to stress that I was not glorifying violence. I will do my best to understand you but please do not use your image of a standard Feyenoord-fan (whatever that may be) to understand me. There are not too many serious (!) racists at Feyenoord. As you know some of the hardcore Feyenoorders are black. Ajaxfans and the media always like to present as if everybodys is against them, but they never stress the “Boeren” that Ajaxfans sing against Groningen, PSV etc. Isnt that discrimination either? Or the songs about the bombarding of Rotterdam during the war? Or what about the way we treat the Germans? I will do my best to understand you better. Must see that your type of Ajax-fans is almost Feyenoord-like….true love and passion. I have more problems with the succesfans (which Ajax obviously has most of, do not deny that) as well as the media who is always supporting Ajax (no need to mention names). I do not care a shit about what stadium you guys play. The discussion about De Meer vs Arena has been hot since transferring to Arena among your Ajax-friends. Obviously Ajax has chosen to target businessmen as their spectators, simply given the fact these people have more money to spend. I am very happy if the atmosphere in the Arena is improving. We need that. I am personally not of the “lets sing all match” type. I rather watch the soccer, analyse the game etc. Singing is ok but I do not come for singing to a stadium. Although sometimes you have to do the singing just to outcompete the opponent. I can tell you a lot about the current Feyenoord team and the heroes I have seen in the past. Willem van Hanegem, the best Dutch left foot player ever, Wim Jansen, Ruud Gullit, Mario Been who made it from Vak- S into the team, Jozef Kiprich (the most cult Feyenoord-player ever) etcetc. Pls bear in mind I do not mention guys like John De Wolf or Peter van Vossen, who the press always would like to position as pure Feyenoorders, although a lot of the fans kind of laughed at these guys. Or about the memorable away-games, specifically in Germany. Or the championsgames in Tilburg when I was a kid and Groningen, when the whole traintrip was full of people waiving and filimg us. Today I do not care to much about individual players as when I was younger, unless I know these guys personally or have seen them playing as a youth player. It is difficult to identify with guys from all kind of countries or simply lousy players. Besides I can have a nice discussion about the current Feyenoord as well as Ajaxteam selections. I think for both teams the gaps with PSV are not as big as thought. Little things can be huge swing factors in soccer, Menno as you know. I would not be surprised if Ajax, if buying some good extra defenders + goalie, could become champion nxt year. Especially if Feyenoord & PSV will be busy playing CL again. Key point Menno is that pure love is formed during crises. You recognize that in your private life. I am proud that I was a Feyenoord-fan, when we were fighting against going down. Did not win a cup for years. Heard stories from my father and grandfather about Coen Moulijn, Israel, Laseroms, Van Hanegem. Went to De Kuip (my father and grandfather were still in the same stadium!!!) and saw jerks like Rovina, Steur, Griga, Nortan (I can give you a list of hundreds of losers). It is a popular sport among Feyenoorders to mention the jerks you have seen playing. You know what? The moment you win a cup then, it is the most beautiful thing that happens to you…it’s like an orgasm. Even although it was at that time a KNVB-cup against Den Bosch (after beating PSV in Eindhoven)…

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

All I can say is that I have never done anything else than having an adult conversation with "David Connolly". I have never given you stupid hooligan-like crap answers or something. All my posts made sense. At least I use my real name and I don't glorify violence (that was you, remember?).

And as far as the comments by "FRFC 1908" are concerned: what makes you think I started supporting Ajax because they won so many prizes? I never said so and it's complete nonsense. I started supporting Ajax as a very, very young boy, because I liked their skill, their play and their attitude. I love Ajax, and I always will, because I think it's the most beautiful, traditional club in the world, with a completely unique football philosophy. That's what it's about to me. Feyenoord fans *never* talk about the quality of their team, or the beauty of Feyenoord's football. They only talk about the stadium and the fans, often - not always, but often - displaying some sort of pride because there's so many hooligans (and let's not forget the impressive number of bald racist Nazis) amongst their fans. I'll never forget the 'monkey sounds' when black Ajax players had the ball, even though Feyenoord had five or six black guys in the team as well. That would *never* happen at Ajax.

I follow Ajax wherever they go. I will have a season ticket until the day I die. This makes me a supporter of your category, so to speak. We would understand one another.

Of course: if you are a supporter of a club, you are proud of the club's special achievements. As a result, Feyenoord fans always talk about their stadium (indeed, the nicest in Holland) and their fans (indeed, the most 'English' of Holland). In reply, Ajax fans usually point towards the trophy cabinet, one of Europe's most impressive. I am proud of the fact that I saw my team win *every* trophy you can win in the 26 years of my life. Bragging about your trophies is not more stupid or less relevant than bragging about your stadium. It's both understandable, and it both has nothing to do with what it's *really* about: the quality of the current team. As far as that's concerned, we're both crap and we both look like fools compared to PSV.

By the way: the attitude of Ajax fans has changed. We've had three completely crap seasons now, but there's still 35,000 season ticket holders and over 100,000 fanclub members (by far the largest fanclub in Holland). No-one left, although I agree and admit that there's too many spectators at the ArenA who don't really seem to care about the result. But there's a *lot* of real, passionate Ajax fans, even thoug you don't want to see them. The away section for Ajax fans is *always* sold out, we always sing for 90 minutes (did you see FC Twente vs Ajax yesterday?) and not only if we're winning.

And as far as the ArenA is concerned: you simply don't know enough about the stadium to be able to judge. If Ajax is doing well, the atmosphere is fine. When Ajax beat Glasgow Rangers 4-1, or scored four goals in ten minutes time against VfL Bochum (making it 4-2, after going 0-2 down), no-one was complaining about the atmosphere, cos it was simply electric. The atmosphere at the ArenA against Feyenoord, two weeks ago, was exactly as good as it is in De Kuip. I can tell, since I've been to many Ajax vs Feyenoord games in both stadiums. But you simply refuse to see it. We just haven't had too much reason to party, and that's why people think the ArenA is crap.

I think I'm trying harder to understand you than you are to understand me, actually.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

If you go back and remove the personal remarks and the silly comments about, you'll see that what remains is in fact an adult conversation, and very interesting too. It's not so much about the rivalry as it is about the relative merits of the two clubs, but then I guess that's what a rivalry is all about. Anyway, I appreciate these remarks from Menno and (unnamed). Keep in coming.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

Menno, I was hoping to have an adult-discussion with you (as you suggested), but you keep making silly remarks about little minds and Feyenooit etc. That’s a pity and not in line with your earlier mentioned sensitiveness. We are definitely not euphoric about the season, dude! But yes we are very happy of beating our long term natural enemy twice this year and ending above them in the league during the last years. There is nothing wrong with that. On the other hand although your season was crappy, you do regret being beaten by us, just like it helped us in suffering from the pain of a terrible 2nd half season. It is also obvious that Ajax-fans have a lot of general trouble besides the sportive lack of progress: Arena sucks and is fully of day-trip-fans, Ajax is a product iso an emotion, the old vs modern logo. The best indication of Feyenoord-loyalty is fact that number of spectators went up in the 2nd half of season although results were down the drain.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

And I wanna add, eventhough I support "the other club" I still think you guys from Ajax-USA did a great job with this website! very informative and well-done, too bad you chose the wrong club!

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

Seeing Menno talk about all this shite what Ajax has achieved in their career, it makes me wanna say one simple thing: I'm a true Feyenoord-supporter and why? I just find it the greatest club of the Netherlands, my family is from Rotterdam and I like the mentality. I'm not supporting a club because they won the most prices. Ofcourse, prices are nice, but if you become a supporter of a certain club just because they won the most prices, you'll never experience the feeling of true club-support. Its about feeling connected with the club and not about supporting the club cause they were most succesfull.

Those kinds of supporters we'd rather see leaving De Kuip than entering De Kuip. I admit, Ajax definitely won the most prices, but Feyenoord definitely got the best supporters and atmosphere! But I didn't have to tell ya this, you probably witnessed it yourself last game in the Arena. And read the comments of Roel about Feyenoord supporters at Stillem II- Feyenoord in the Ajax-ster! You know it makes sense!

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2001

To our founder and webmaster, Jim McGough. You couls also call it our Ajax USA club banner. Jim was not in Enschede this afternoon. he left the banner at my house in Amsterdam after our Ajax In April trip of last month. I will bring it to every Ajax game from now on. It will be behind the south goal (F-Side) during home games, and in the away section during away games :-)

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001

Hi Menno,

i saw today a banner with Ajax-USA" in the stadium of FC Twente. To who belong this thing?

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2001


Despite Ajax' crap season, feienooit still gave us the chance to leapfrog them for over six weeks. And despite the fact they're acting so euphoric (after having beaten Ajax twice in a year for the first time since 1985) their season is in fact exactly as crappy as ours, for they have won nothing. Little things please little minds, they say. It doesn't say much for feienooit!

You only post on other clubs' fan forums when your winning. That's exactly the attitude you accuse Ajax fans of all the time... Doesn't say much for feienooit fans!


-- Anonymous, May 19, 2001

GO FEYENOORD!! Despite Feyenoord's recent poor performances we were still able to beat A**x . Doesn't say much for that team!


-- Anonymous, May 19, 2001

Menno, Menno, it is obvious to me that a sensitive and intuitive person like yourself is still struggling with the 2nd defeat by Feyenoord this season. On one hand you don’t like the over- aggressiveness and hate that some of your co-fans show and you would like to be more adultative and friendly to Feyenoordfans like myself, on the other hand you have to make jokes about my dads (and grandfathers) European Cup and Rotterdam dockworkers. I was thinking of making a joke about your intuition and sensitiveness, but although some Rotterdammers can indeed be pretty aggressive to other people, we do not like humor at cost of other people. I think you should have more respect for Feyenoorders like myself, who have won less cups than a 10 year old PSV or Ajax fan. I am not suggesting at all we were humiliating you guys. My idea is that Feyenoord, although not in its most successful period, at least won a title 2 years ago, Supercup last year and played Champions League all years including next year. Obviously we have been the most succesfull Dutch team in Europe recently (beating Lazio, Juve, Marseille). Which is obviously better than what Co “we need to be in the top 5 this year” Adriaanse has accomplished. What I have learned from the less succesfull periods of my team, is that hate and jealousy against the natural enemy increases especially when they are so successful as Ajax was couple of years ago. My impression is that during the last 3 years Ajax-hate has grown against Feyenoord (maybe I am wrong). For all clarity: I personally am NOT satisfied with Feyenoords performance this year. Some more clarification so you understand not all Feyenoord fans are stupid: Van de Herik needs to go, John de Wolf was definitely no hero…(neither was Van Vossen). Well Menno, I am very positively surprised you went to Nighttown. Rotterdam is becoming more and more popular for party people. Nighttown is one of the better places in Rotterdam. I partly agree with your aggressiveness observation. I have been partying very often in Amsterdam (from the house scene to the Plein cafes) and did shout about my club from time to time. Actually Sunday night I did have dinner in the Jordaan. No problemo. Indeed this would be rather unthinkable in certain scenes in Rotterdam. But pls realize there are certain scenes where it is no problem if you are from Amsterdam (I do not mean the gay scene here hahahah). I think it is just a matter of Rotterdam being more of a crazy city in general with a club with the most and bizarrest hooligans in the Netherlands…

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2001

There's nothing wrong with Mr "Connolly"s post. He's welcome to post here, is obviously a person who can provide good explanation. It's absolutely worth the effort to talk to him. I'll respond to some things he said.

"Obviously Menno there were a lot more Feyenoordfans all through the stadium than you guys expected."

- Not really, no. The official away section was packed, and that's not always the case. It was a great sight to see it full. But all through the stadium? No. There was a little group on the 'neutral' south-west side of the main stand, but there's always a group of away fans there. Plus, there were a few Feyenoord fans in Ajax sections, but that's the same every week, too.

"So where does your suggestion come from that I was not in the stadium."

- As I said: 'no proof; just intuition'. Mainly because you wrote: 'THEY sang all game', instead of 'WE sang all game'. Anyway: forget about it. If my intuition was wrong, I aoplogize for that.

"Fact that I saw Ajax beat us several times (including all those games you are referring to) did not help. Same happens in Amsterdam now: hate against Feyenoord seems to have grown during last years where we were more succesfull."

- I'm sorry, not trying to provoke you, but do you *really* mean this??? Do you really feel as if you're humiliating us like we humiliated you? Your victory of this season in Rotterdam (two goals difference) was the first since 1994; the one in Amsterdam (one goal difference) was the first since 1987. Do you really want to compare that to a series of 0-3, 0-4, 0-5, 0-5, 5-2, 4-0, 3-0 in a few years' time? Or did you just succeed in your attempts to forget those games? It's gonna take you many years of complete domination (with some better football than this Feyenoord team is capable of) to make up for the past. But if one victory in 14 years is enough to satisfy you people - fine with me.

Apart from that: the 1992-1996 era was not great for Ajax because we beat Feyenoord so often. The games against Feyenoord were just games. It was a great time because we played brilliant football and won every trophy you can think of. Are you Feyenoord fans *really* satisfied about the last few seasons because you beat us and finished higher on the table? Amazing. That would be unthinkable for an Ajax fan. Really. You won exactly as much as we did: nothing. It's been crap; it's been horrible, for both of us. Are you really so proud that your team will finish a few points higher than *this* Ajax team? You were as chanceless in the league as we were (and in Europe, and in the Amstel Cup).

"Jim, I am not as terroristic as you think. I was just giving you an advise not to show your Ajaxstuff in public in Rotterdam."

- Jim accepts this explanation; I don't. You're an intelligent guy, Mr "Connolly", so I'm trying to talk to you as a grown-up. let's just face it: you wrote that down with pride. Even a little kid could feel the connotation. You can deny that if you want, and I can't possibly prove it. But as you were writing your first post, you were sort of proud that it's not safe for Ajax fans to support their team in your stadium. I think it's really stupid and it really disappoints me from a guy holding an Economics degree.

I've been in trouble in Rotterdam once because I was talking to a girl at Nighttown and someone heard me tell her I lived in Amsterdam. I was talking about music to that girl, and it was in a non-football- setting, but all of a sudden there were three dudes standing around me. The words 'Amsterdam' is apparently enough reason for certain Rotterdammers to harrass a person. That's unthinkable in Amsterdam, even in the roughest areas. People don't give a fuck where you're from. They just don't care about Rotterdam, or any other place. Two defeats will not change that. If you shout in the middle of a bar that you're a Feyenoord fan, someone might say: "Well, maybe they'll find a cure for it once", or whatever. To me, Rotterdammers and Feyenoorders come across as more agressive and frustrated, even after they won. I don't know why. Maybe I met the wrong ones.

"Again sorry for beating you guys"

- Don't worry about it. We're not as bad people as you think. Know what? We'll give one away every ten years, cos it's in general Dutch interest that the working spirit and the morale in the Rotterdam docks are good. By the way: you know what's even more fun than beating Ajax? Winning a European Cup of some sort. I can really recommend it. Ask your dad.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2001

yep, im from the phils. i work at cebu. im in japan right now for training...they got a lot of soccer goodstuff here...

ajax emphasizes on speed, right? then why is their game slow??? i saw ipswitch town play and their game was much faster... ajaxs pace is walking while ipswitch is jogging and manchester united is running...hehehehe

run ajax, run!

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2001

Okay, a tiny bit of history. I have tried to conduct meaningful "rivalry" discussions on this discussion board before. The great majority of Ajax AND Feyenoord (and PSV and ...) fans are well- intentioned football fans who love their club and the game. It's tricky -- because "hating" ones rival is an acceptable indulgence and sometimes unavoidable -- and so meaningful conversation between clubs can be difficult. But it's not impossible. I for one seek it out.

Unfortunately, whenever a good debate begins, someone usually comes along and shits all over it. Why would we ignore "Connoly" (other than the fact that he's breaking my "rules" by not using his real name -- but oh well)? His contributions to this discussion are no worse than some Ajax fans, and better than a few.

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Yeah, pls keep ignoring us so we can kick your asses again twice next year!!!

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Ignore Connoly guys!!! F-side rules forever!!

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

"Connoly" wrote: >> Jim, I am not as terroristic as you think. I was just giving you an advise not to show your Ajaxstuff in public in Rotterdam.

Yeah, I figured that out later. I think I *chose* to interpret your comment the way I did. I see your point and your intentions. My apologies for that.

>> Obviously the people visiting US games are way more passive all through the country...


>> therefor I thought you Americans would feel more comfortable with the theatre public in de Arena.

No, any American who travels thousands of miles to see football would prefer great, European atmosphere (as was displayed in the Arena last Sunday), so I think you're wrong there. My guess is that the atmosphere in the Arena would be fine if Ajax were a more successful club in it. Feyenoord, PSV have more traditionally shaped stadiums, and the atmosphere in De Kuip seems great (on TV). But I don't think the fact that the Arena is "modern" automatically means bad atmosphere.

>> Again sorry for beating you guys :)

To the victor goes the spoils, including rubbing our noses in it. :-P

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Obviously Menno there were a lot more Feyenoordfans all through the stadium than you guys expected. So where does your suggestion come from that I was not in the stadium. I do neither know what you mean with IQ? I have a degree in Business Economics, but does that make me highly intelligent? I think there are different levels of intelligism...even within soccer the most stupid players can do the most esthetic things on the field. I always say I have been a Feyenoord fan before I was born given my family. Consequently I do not like Ajax. Fact that I saw Ajax beat us several times (including all those games you are referring to) did not help. Same happens in Amsterdam now: hate against Feyenoord seems to have grown during last years where we were more succesfull. Jim, I am not as terroristic as you think. I was just giving you an advise not to show your Ajaxstuff in public in Rotterdam. I have seen a lot of the USA. Including basketball and baseballgames all through the country. Obviously the people visiting US games are way more passive all through the country; therefor I thought you Americans would feel more comfortable with the theatre public in de Arena. Again sorry for beating you guys :)

-- Anonymous, May 16, 2001

Oh yeah, one more thing: for some reason I sense that Mr "Connolly" wasn't even there on Sunday. He was watching TV. What a great supporter.

No proof; just intuition.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2001

Actually, standing on the F-Side, I didn't hear the Feyenoord fans at all in the first half. To me, they started singing as they were winning. I'm probably wrong, which already indicates that Mr Connolly (why do Feyenoord fans never use their real names here... sigh) may be wrong as well about the noise coming from our side. I mean: you didn't hear us because you were singing yourselves - and the other way round. From the TV footage, you could tell the atmosphere was fantastic throughout the stadium. You need a lot of great fans from *both* teams for that.

Admitted: we dropped almost completely quiet after those three goals in fifteen minutes, but I can tell you from my own experience that De Kuip is dead silent as well when Ajax is 0-3, 0-4 or 0-5 up. Experienced it several times :-)

I go to *all* Ajax' home *and* away games, so I can compare that kind of stuff. I can tell you that the Ajax crowd is definitely not the quietest in the Eredivisie (that's SC Heerenveen, Willem II and PSV) and that the Feyenoord crowd is definitely not the loudest (FC Utrecht, FC twente since they moved to a new stadium and - to my huge surprise - De Graafschap: keep on going boys!).

Feyenoord deserved the victory indeed, although I think the best 30 minutes of football were shown by Ajax. It says a lot about Feyenoord that two wins against Ajax are actually enough to make their season. Pretty much sums up there history. It's probably because there's not been so many highlights to choose from over the past three decades. Still, I don't get it: you've beaten us twice, and you didn't lose to us last year, either. So there's no reason to behave like frustrated idiots anymore. But you still do. Weird. I guess there's nandrolon in Rotterdam's drinking water. Plus a brain-damaging substance of some sort.

BTW: I saw a few lonely Feyenoord fans in Ajax sections getting seriously beaten up on Sunday. And I am not proud of it. Are you listening Mr "Connolly"? Not proud of it. I guess it's just a matter of IQ.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2001

There isn't much to say in response to "Mr. Connoly" except that you're mostly right. Feyenoord deserved the 3 points. It's a dark criticism of Ajax that they were outplayed by *this* Feyenoord team, which even you must admit is pretty poor (based on recent results).

Of course Ajax and Feyenoord both have good fans and bad fans. And the atmosphere in the Arena on Sunday undercuts your criticism a bit. But I agree that the Feyenoord supporters were impressive, cheering throughout the first half despite being utterly outplayed.

You do expose your ignorance by summing up a country as large and diverse as America as being of a single type. But you won, you've earned some bragging rights. Ajax fans have to expect this sort of thing for a while.

I would like to visit a Feyenoord home game one time, but I'm afraid the caveman territorialistic attitude of many Feyenoord fans (including you, judging by your threats about tatoos and gear) make that impossible. Too bad.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2001

It was obvious nobody else but Feyenoord deserved to win this game. Ajax played marvelous 30 mins but then they simply sucked. Witschge was completely overrun by Emerton and De Cler is still working on separating his right from his left leg as Kalou played him. Feyenoord Fans showed they are the best (like they showed often before) as they sung all match. Even when 2-1 down they sung We love you Feyenoord we do we love you Feyenoord we do for 30 mins. Obviously as you Americans are used to a silly guy with a piano saying you what to sing during a hockey or baseball game, you are probably more comfortable with the theatre public in the ugly Arena. If you ever would like to enjoy a soccer game with real soccer fans you should have come to the Kuip, the one and only Dutch soccer stadium (with real grass). I only would advise not to bring any visible Ajax outfits or tattoos … We shall not be moved.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2001

Hi everybody,

I have seen the match live. I am supporting ajax on the f-side. I saw ajax playing marvelous the first half, the second they played to defensive. They created their own problems. But one thing is sure; they have to buy new wing backs!! De Cler is not good enough and Yakubu is a player for the center. It is a pity that there were a lot of trouble with the "hooligans". Too much fights with the cops, and i think there are now a lot of people (especially women and children) who would not come back to see a game of football. It was sometimes frightening.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2001

hey joel are u from the philippines? am from qc. if you are then how were you able to catch the classic? did any of the cable operators carry it because if they did then i'm switching!

though i didn't get to see the game i can emptahize with all the agonized ajacieds out there. dunno what's worse- losing to F-word or missing out on outright 2nd!

anyway let's keep our hopes up and wish the team would do something about the current lack of talent (and youth) at the GK position. and maybe miracurously qualify for a champions league seat next season!

mabuhay ang Ajax!

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2001

oh, one more thing. the left side was overrun becuase when an attack begins on the left side. wamberto usually cuts going to the middle. he is a winger for christs sake. he should cross the damn ball. by moving to the middle he cloggs up the center part which doesnt give the strikers room to maneuver...which they badly need. the the center forward channel was declogged fouls might happen or chances might happen. wamberto should minimize moving toward center and move to the left wing and cross...then the balls are the strikers problem. take ikedia for example, he cuts to the middle then moves back away from the center just flirting with the edge of the penalty box...so if he gets fouled, bang...penalty kick in the bag... also when wamberto moves to the center then de cler has to cut to the left wing to provide a cross, then this makes the left side of the defense...weaker...then chivu goes on the attack mode with 2-1 in their favor...what a crap... all is left is pasanen in the inside right back and yakubu way on the right back... spacing gentlemen...

spacing ajax!!!! damn why the hell did you have to lose...you are not suppose to and you are not capable of losing that game.

-- Anonymous, May 14, 2001

He gets all the big games in Holland, because he´s one of the best international referees (thinks the Uefa)! But in my opnion, he has also made weird decisions in internatiol games the last years. Several years ago there was an official investigation againt him, because he was gambling on soccer-games. Yesterday it had maybe more to do with the linemen.

Anyway it doesn´t really matter, losing that game was our own fault.

-- Anonymous, May 14, 2001

I'm gonna split the difference between the two of you: I say Jol had another poor game (I don't know why he gets appointed to all the 'big' Dutch games - his decisions are erratic and his behavior is bizarre), but I don't believe he affected the outcome. Ajax lost on their own (lack of) merits. But Jol is very poor quality, I think.

-- Anonymous, May 14, 2001

I agree it was Ajax´s own fault losing this game, but i don´t agree about Jol. This wasn´t his first Ajax game in wich he made very strange decisions. I´m not saying we lost the game because of him.

Let´s hope Ajax 2 will beat Utrecht 2 tonight!!!

Simply Jewish

-- Anonymous, May 14, 2001

I'm still sad, even after a night's sleep. It's been many years since I looked so much forward to an Ajax game; it's been equally many years since I've been so depressed about it.

Let's get one thing straight: it's ridiculous to blame referee Jol for this one. He seemed to be slightly in favor of Ajax in the first half, and slightly in favor of Feyenoord in the second. It didn't by any means influence the result.

I think the best football in the game was shown by Ajax (the first 30 minutes, especially, even though they went down 0-1), but in the end Feyenoord's victory was deserved. It's just devastating how they kept slicing up the left zone of the Ajax defense. Three of the goals came to stand in an almost identical way.

If Ajax had scored the 3-1, it would have been a done deal. But they didn't (whereas Van der Gun, Van der Meyde and Van der Vaart should have). This is their own fault; not referee Jol's.

I wish this was the last game. I'm fed up with it. My fanaticism- batteries are empty for this year. It was one more crap season after all. Simple as that. I wish it were over, but the thing is: it isn't yet. We have to keep going, since we can still qualify for the Champions League by finishing third.

Know what? Let's just see what happens. I just can't give you anything more enthusiastic than that anymore... :-(

Jesus, two defeats in one season, against such a shit team... The first time since 1985-1986 we lost both our games against them. How can Ajax do this to us?

-- Anonymous, May 14, 2001

Ajax needs to play O'Brien in defense. I thought he played well agianst RKC Waalwijlk. The second half of the "Classic" was a joke. The only real Ajax performer of the day was Arveladze. I don't think this team deserves the Champions League but I hope they make it.

-- Anonymous, May 13, 2001

Greetings, In responde to the Classic-- I am seventeen years old, but it seems to me that every time I see the ball in Ajax's third of the pitch, I am that much closer to dying of a rare myocardial infarction in my mid-thirties.

-- Anonymous, May 13, 2001

The defense was the worst, but Jol the referee.............i guess he´s gambling again!!!!

This Ajax doesn´t even derserve to play Champions League, but i still keep up hoping.

Simply Jewish

-- Anonymous, May 13, 2001

I don't want to talk about it.

-- Anonymous, May 13, 2001

damn! damn! damn! shit! shit! shit! a win was within reach. damn, we were killed on the left side. the left side of the defence was poor. chivu should have stayed back. de cler and chivu cant attack both at the same time. that left pasanen all alone. those 2 goals showed it. co adjusted but it was too late. wamberto should have been substituted first (he wasnt much also in the previous game). he wasnt a threat on the left side. co has to choose between de cler and chivu on the left wing back spot. yakubu and pasanen work well together in the middle (ive noticed in the previous games). i dont know who to put on the right back position. but i think o'brian performed well there. maybe in the future, the back four will be able to function properly. chivu should bear in mind not to go too forward when de cler has moved forward. oh well, another game...another day... why did they have to throw it away??? why.... damn, i want to scream!!!!!

wake up ajax!

-- Anonymous, May 13, 2001

It seems like Ajax will have the entire squad available: not only Chivu, but also Knopper and Machlas are back with the group.


-- Anonymous, May 12, 2001

One of my favorite Ajax-Feyenoord games was just 2 seasons ago. In the spring of 1999, Ajax met Feyenoord in Amsterdam in the semifinal of the Amstel Cup. Ajax' form was pathetic, proven by defeats of 1-3 by Fortuna and 4-1 by Cambuur. Feyenoord on the other hand was on it's way to the Dutch title and was determined to make it a double.

Ajax started the game ok, with small chances for Litmanen and Tim de Cler. Right before halftime, Jesper Gronkjaer sent a good cross to the center to Wamberto. With an incredible bicycle kick, the Brazilian left Dudek with no chance, Ajax was leading!

Despite dazzling performances by Litmanen (finally back from an injury) and Melchiot, who was just told that he was not needed by the club anymore, Feyenoord levelled. A free kick from Van Gastel just went past the wall and via in the inside of the post and out of reach for Edwin van der Sar, it was 1-1.

However deep in the second half, the two best players on the pitch set up the winning goal. Melchiot passed in Litmanen who with a great backheelpass sent Melchiot on his way to the goal. Despite two defenders chasing him, Melchiot managed to put the ball past Dudek!

Ajax was in the cupfinal and went on to win the cup and save a terrible season!

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2001

Hello All,

Here a sign from a Dutch Ajaxfan from Holland. I readed an article in a Dutch magazine that there exists a Ajax-usa fanclub! Thanks for supporting us ! Next to come the important game against Feyenooit ( nooit = never *S*) We have to get three points to get a good view on a place to reach Champions-Leauge, witch will give Ajax the nesseccery money to invest beside youth in some god players to talent the other CL-clubs!

Veel groeten uit Holland,


-- Anonymous, May 11, 2001

This may be a very dreadful match to watch. Ajax is playing bad and Feyenoord is probably even playing worse. But the stakes are very high, we could still become 2nd and thus we do not have to play the qualification rounds, which won't mess up mister Co's pre-season and so he hopefully won't be having any excuses handy so as to why we shouldn't aim to become champions.

Anyway, we must win this, loosing twice from the dockworkers is even worse than not playing European football!

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2001

The following was posted to the Ajax Listserv, and I just had to re-post it here. I trust Thierry won't mind. :-)
A personal memory of Ajax - Feyenoord.

Over the years I have seen lots of matches between Ajax and Feyenoord, one memory takes me back to the olympic stadium October 24th 1993, one day before my birthday.

Feyenoord had a great start of the season and were ahead a couple of points (I believe 3 or 4). A loss in that match would have put Ajax a long way back in the championship race. Ajax hadn't lost to Feyenoord at home in years and had just beaten Feyenoord in the dutch 'supercup' (charity shield) 0-4 in Rotterdam. The champions didn't stand a chance against the 'new' Amsterdam squad. Ajax had bought players like Rijkaard, Van Vossen Overmars and Finidi and later that season Kanu would also join the squad. While players like Bergkamp and Jonk had just left the club. Unfortunately Rijkaard picked up a pretty dumb yellow card the week before (talking to the ref.) which was his third so he was suspended.

The match took place in a totally packed olympic stadium and before we realized what happened Feyenoord scored twice -- Harvey Esias (an ex Ajax youth player) and Arnold Scholten (another ex-Ajax player).

Luckily Ajax had a young talent we would prove an excellent replacement for Dennis Bergkamp. A young Finnish player called Jari Litmanen had taken his chance when Ajax first choice number 10 (Dan Petersen) had gotten a foot injury. Litmanen scored a lot of goals and he wouldn't lose his place in the team untill he left to join Barcelona.

Right after the 2nd Feyenoord goal, Litmanen struck his first to get some hope back into the hearts of the Ajax fans. The match went on and on, and though Ajax had the better of the chances, the last minute of the match arrived with still the much hated score of 1- 2 on the scoreboard. It looked like Feyenoord had taken a huge lead in the competition in a very early stage. But finally in the very last minute of official play our 'goalmachine' struck once again.

The match ended in 2-2 and after being down 0-2 Ajax felt like the moral winner. Ajax did manage to win the title that season and I think we all know what happened in the champions league the next year.

p.s. the author is not responsible for mistakes in the story that are formed by the disfunctioning of his memory. :-D

Ajaxlist beheerder

-- Anonymous, May 10, 2001

After Sunday, I bet they'll claim that they lost because of all those injuries. Let's not forget that Co Adriaanse did not even mention the fact that Ajax missed Chivu and Machlas in De Kuip... They'll miss the same players again this time - but it doesn't matter.

Man - I can't stop babbling about Sunday's game. It's been a few years since I've been looking so much forward to an Ajax vs fe&%^@##d game. A direct battle for Champions League qualification; these are the *real* ones. It's gonna be a hectic affair...

-- Anonymous, May 08, 2001

Hey listen to this: both feyenoord key players (at least they were in the line-up yesterday) Rzasa and Smorarek are suspended for next match due to their 4th yellow cards they received in yesterday's match against Dead Tuna ;-)
And next to Bosvelt (who is injured for the rest of the season) AT5 reports today that Korneev probabely will miss The Classic also because of an injury. Note that Korneev scored both feyenoord goals yesterday! And on top of that Kalou missed today's training also because of an injury...

Are the gods with us???

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2001

I think it's gonna come down to this: if we want to finish second, we need a victory against Feyenoord. Otherwise, we're f*cked. If we beat the, we need six more points from three games. The last one of the season, at home against AZ, is the easiest one: they will be safe by that time and will not care that much. We'll win that one easily. Which means, we need to beat either FC Twente (away) or Vitesse (home). FC Twente are playing their last few games for nothing ans will probably be thinking of the Amstel Cup final against PSV they're playing the Thursday after their game against Ajax. But: Ajax is crap in away games. They lost at AZ, NEC and Sparta and they couldn't do better than a draw at FC Groningen. So I think it will have to happen in the home game against Vitesse.

We'll have to show what we're worth in the two upcoming home games, against Feyenoord and Vitesse. If we win those two, we'll easily grab two points from the remaining two games).


-- Anonymous, May 07, 2001

Hey Menno, do you remember the Fe@#$*^d guy we had over here. He is very quiet all of a sudden. Please lets do these guys(Fe@#$@**&d) man. I hope that Chivu is gonna be fit for this one. Grim was good throughout the season. He has found the best time to start screwing things ( hopefully the last one was not the start of something). He is gonna be there at least till the end of this season. So hopefully he'll be good for at least the next 4 games. SO lets hope for the best ( for Ajax & Grim ).

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2001

feyenever vs Fortuna Sittard 2-3, making for the F-Word's 5th defeat in 6 games and the 8th defeat since the winter break. The message is clear: they don't *want* to finish second. Shall we volunteer (at f*ckin' last)?

We've got it in our own hand *AGAIN*. If we fuck up *AGAIN*, I'll go NUTS.

-- Anonymous, May 07, 2001

1) At the moment, we are not good enough for the Champions League. 2) We are not near as good as PSV. 3) The Ajax team is not in balance and we need a handful of new players to become a good team.



-- Anonymous, May 06, 2001


-- Anonymous, May 03, 2001

The latest team news is a bit worrying: Cris Chivu playing against Feyenoord is out of the question. His injury needs more time. Bummer, but we played our best game of the season (Heerenveen) without him. The *real* problem is that André Bergdølmo and Nikos Machlas are in bed with the flu. Machlas seems easier to replace (Arveladze upfront, with Van der Gun and the recovered Ikedia on the right wing) than Bergdølmo. We would be in trouble without him: a Kanu, Pasanen, Witschge and De Cler defense would be one of the very few options, or maybe get Winter back to defense, or use Yakubu.

Anywayz: have some more aspirin, Bergdølmo... :-/

-- Anonymous, December 09, 2000

this feyenoord-Ajax could get pretty nasty on the stands or elsewhere around the stadium. Menno if you're going to the match and are inside the visitors section I'd advise you to find a nice place somewhere in the middle where the bricks, fireworks and other stuff can't hit you. A lot has happened the last few weeks but you'll probably know what I'm talking about.

As for the match... I'm counting on a victory so we can show the scumsuckers their place. feyenoord are a shit team. Always have been, always will be. this year their play is better but even then. The feyenoord squad still hasn't recovered from the three years that Ajax- feyenoord was a 4-0, 5-1 (and the other way around) kinda game, so they are probably gonna shit themselves. A victory would be very good for the confidence of a young team full of talented players. On the other hand, young talented players can fall quite hard every now and then. Let's hope not next weekend!

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

After seeing yesterday's match, I would say there's a definite possibility of beating F*******d!

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Ten days to go... YEAH.

-- Anonymous, November 30, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

It seems a shame to write Grim off - although I think he probably will be replaced; but I think he had some very good games this season - he even got Man of the Match once (usually a bad indicator for the general performance when the 'keeper gets that).

Some of his saves have been pretty impressive - the main worry is his strange desire to occasionally go one-on-one against opposing players - maybe he forgets he's allowed to pick the ball up? I don't think he's too old to improve yet - some 'keepers play at international level even in their late thirties.

Failing that, my girlfriend was in the same class at school as Sander Westerveld - I'll see if she can persuade him to join Ajax instead :-)

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

Grim has been the number 2 keeper for a long time. This season he was given the just to show that he can be number 1. He didn't live up to expectation. As what Westerhof said...

"We need a victory against Vitesse. Simple as that. Of course, there is a lot of pressure on our shoulders. But as a professional, you should be able to deal with that. If you lose this game because of the pressure, you're just not good enough." Hans Westerhof about Sunday's game against Vitesse. 24 April:

Grim can't deal with the pressure. I hope we can find a keeper next season. I'm not convince with Mokoena playing in the defense, as what I have seen in the game. I'd play Winter on the rigth back position and Yakubu on the midfield. Does Vierklau play the position of Verlaat or will Chivu play in the center of defense.

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

Loyalty is a virtue, for sure, but that's not enough for Ajax to keep the faith in him. I mean: we're a professional club, so we're not gonna keep working with him because he's such a nice guy. Besides: he's an old dude. If a youngster plays bad, you can try to make him better. For Grim that's too late. Any effort would be a waste of time. I'm sorry Freddy, but you're off. Not even to mention Frank Verlaat... how many goals has this man given away now? I lost count. He should become Santa Claus, so it'll be his job to give presents.

Anyway: Ferdi Vierklau is currently doing the 'Bobby training' (Bobby Haarms' last task...), so he'll be ready for Sunday. Mokoena, Vierklau, Van Halst and Chivu will probably play in defense. Maybe we can keep the opponents from scoring, for the second time in 45 games...

-- Anonymous, May 04, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

Verlaat is a fuckin tragedy. On the other hand, one thing good i saw in his game was his ability on the air. His heading skills are good. He knows how to use his head when hitting the ball with his head only but he doesn't use his head when playing football. I guess his head is made of metal? Grim totally lacks self-confidence. Maybe because of his defence? If his defence was strong, i guess he would also push himself to be strong. Grim has been loyal to Ajax, loyalty has it's virtue. He has been with Ajax for a long time, right? I guess i wont let Grim go but put him on the reserve. Verlaat definitely has to go. I guess the draw was the right result. In the second half, once Ajax had the chance to attack or had the ball, they were dangerous. I saw that feyenoord was somewhat panicky when ajax attacked. Do you agree that Ajax needs taller striker/forward? With wingers like Gronkjaer, Laudrup, Wamberto, Babangida, these guys work well with tall strikers. With these wingers, they can easily cross the ball. But with center forwards like Wamberto, the cross is wasted.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

I don't know if this was shown in the US. In the Philippines, it was shown on ESPN Asia, midnight. Time doesn't matter when watching Ajax play. Ajax (dutch league) games shown on TV in the Philippines are hard to come by...that's why i hope and pray they get into the Champion's League which get tremendous coverage.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

Was this match shown in the US ?? I try to keep an eye on soccertv.com but do not remember the match being listed.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

Response to Ajax - Feyenoord game

I almost completely agree with you. Feyenoord was obviously dominating the game, which is completely 'not Ajax'. For a fan from the 'good days', who gets to see Ajax for the first in a very long time, it must be pretty shocking to see the team struggle. Times have changed (but they will again). I agree on your opinion about Frank Verlaat as well: the guy's a fuckin tragedy. But be patient: when Jan Wouters was fired, general manager Frank Kales announced that a number of players were held responsible for Ajax' bad play as well. Frank Verlaat will definitely be one of them, and so will Fred Grim. I think they'll be gone next year (hallelujah!)

I don't agree on one point you're making: no matter how bad Ajax played, I don't think they deserved to lose. Feyenoord had much more ball possession and was pressuring much more, but - especially in the second half - Ajax had (by far) the best chances in the game. And since goals are scored from chances, Feyenoord were pretty damn lucky that Shota Arveladze screwed some excellent ones up. Let's put it this way: Feyenoord deserved to win because of their play, but Ajax came closer to the victory. I think a draw was the right result.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2000

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