Lighting for barn

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Here I am with another question. Hope you can give me some more useful advice. The old cow barn that I purchased has light fixtures but no electic going to the barn at this time. Also needs a new breaker box etc to meet code. Total bill is $700 which is way out of my budget to provide a couple of lights to see my horse in the dark. So, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on alternatives. I am going to look into solar panels but wasn't sure how they would work in a central NY winter where we don't see the sun for days at a time. Also I think the batteries have to be kept sheltered from the intense cold. Was also told about propane lights. Also saw someone who ran small christmas lights off of a car battery. It gave off enough light to see as well as a festive atmosphere. Any one with any ideas or experience I could borrow? Thanks

-- teresa mandracchia (teresam@ascent.net), May 05, 2000

Answers

If being code compliant is essential this won't help you but if just having lite safely is adequate this is what I would explore. Depending on the distance from the barn to the electrical source you can bury a length of 10/2 or 8/2 wire, rated for underground service, run it into the barn and hook it up into the existing panel. The 10/2 and 8/2 are wire sizes, the lower number is the larger wire and will carry greater amperage. The distance is a factor because there is a voltage loss with distance, thus a larger wire for greater distances to compensate. Around here the power companies bury the wires at about 30" however I've found that it's not necessary to go that deep. A word of caution tho. If the line is buried shallow and under a driveway shield the wire in some 160# rated poly pipe for extra protection. The poly pipe is fairly inexpensive, about $30 for 100' of 1". Maybe 3/4" will do. It depends on the wire size selected and how hard you want to struggle pulling the wire thru the pipe.. The wire sizes mentioned will give you 220 volts into the barn and should provide adequate power for 2 15amp circuits in the barn and one 30amp 220v outlet. Just be careful not to overload the circuits which shouldn't be a problem if all you're using is lighting.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), May 05, 2000.

Teresa, somewhere I've picked up that homesteaders didn't like NY state because the whole state used NYC codes. You'd best check into it very carefully. John has some good ideas for you. Sometimes you can find an electrician who will let you do virtually the entire job yourself, then the electrician checks it over carefully and does the actual wiring to the breaker box.

Propane lights give off a great deal of light and heat, not bad in the winter. A fire danger, but people used flame lighting in barns for centuries. Propane lights are also fuel hogs, a 20# cylinder won't last for long. Anything larger and you'll probably need to have a bulk gas supplier take care of it. Price it out carefully first, and be sure that you can find someone who will add you to their list of customers and deliver to your site.

For solar panels, you'll have to check locally for how well they'll work in the winter. The batteries do need protection from the cold and one or two horses in the barn might not warm it up enough for the batteries. The batteries also vent noxious gases and that needs to be allowed for.

Before I went with Christmas lights, I'd check with a camper supplier for 12 volt lights. They'd give of a lot more light even though they'd lack a great deal in festivity. You've still got the problem of the battery. You'd have the risk of running your vehicle's battery down if you used it so you'd need a second battery. The second battery would have to be transported back and forth with you and recharged fairly frequently. A certain amount of danger involved, but do-able.

Some other options would include various flashlights/lanterns that run on 6 volt lantern batteries (the big square ones). Check hardware stores and camping supply stores. There are some which are configured just like the usual gas lanterns. They could be set or hung easily in the barn and would also be easy to carry back and forth with you. Gas lanterns would also work, again bringing in the fire danger. You could also drop skylights (pricey) or corrugated light panels into the roof. Either can cause leaks, the panels also aren't very insulating. But I've been in a lot of buildings that used only panels for lighting. See if there are or have been any windows in your barn that you could fix up. They'd help quite a bit.

You might want to hop over to the thread on salvaging a mobile home. You might be able to find a wrecked camper of some sort and pull the lights out of that. Campers can have 12 volt systems and/or propane systems for lighting. Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), May 05, 2000.


Teresa, If all else fails, go to a camper or R.V. store and buy some 12-volt lights and hook them up to a battery. You will have to charge up the battery now and then but it beats 700 bucks. I was also wondering if you could some how rig up an automobile headlight to the 12-volt battery (for short term high intensity light).

Just a couple of ideas. Scott

-- Scott (scotthom@hotmail.com), May 05, 2000.


A couple more thoughts -- one of our friends in Alaska uses a miner's headlamp when doing chores in the dark. The battery fits in a shirt pocket, so it doesn't get cold. Also, I don't think the propane lights are that bad on fuel; we had several of them in the cabin we were living in in Alaska (until some jerk came in and stole the light fixtures and most of the copper tubing!). We were also using a propane cook stove, and a hundred pound tank lasted us a long time, even running the propane lights long hours -- it's a lot darker in the winter in Alaska than it is in New York!! However, the light fixtures aren't cheap, they don't give off a huge amount of light (more than an oil lamp, though), they require fragile mantles that may be hard to find locally, and they require periodic cleaning of the orifice with a special tool which can also be hard to find -- if you get the lamps, look around for the tool and get a couple, because they are small and easy to lose. If you don't clean the orifice periodically, the light will start to flicker badly enough to give you a headache. I think if it was me, I'd follow John's advice and run a wire to the barn, since you already have light fixtures out there -- if you can get away with it. Second choice would be the miner's headlamp -- cheap, portable, and it puts the light right where you want it -- and a good amount of light, too.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 05, 2000.

OK, Teresa, Where are you in NY? E-mail direct if you don't want the other (myself conveniently excepted, of course) weirdos to know! Anyway, how far from the house (vicinity of your entry, panel) to the barn? We've got 2 choices here, either bury, or use "strain relief baskets" at either end and string overhead. 10/3 wire, to carry 240 volts, split at the barn to 2 - 120 volt circuits is usually ample. I suspect the electrician who is asking 700 clams is either a scalper, or you are in downtown somewhere. No matter, it's cheaper than that, and pretty easy! Propane and solar are the answer only if you have a loooong way to go! Come back! I've been there, and the solution was pretty cheap. In any case, GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), May 05, 2000.


Thanks for all the advice. The barn is about 1/2 mile from my house. I bought is as a separate piece but did not buy the farm house that went with it. Electricity originally came from the house itself. The present owner is not interested in letting me run juice off of his meter. Also, the electrician is a friend of mine and is doing the work basically at cost however the electric company is charging me $350 to run the wire across the street. Since this is not a "residence" it is considered commercial property and I get hit with all kinds of extras.. I will look into the miner's hat ideas and the 12 volt RV stuff. Any other ideas??? THANK YOU

-- teresa mandracchia (teresam@ascent.net), May 05, 2000.

Teresa: Now that i know more info I'd be looking at pv instead. You should be able to do a quick and dirty version suitable for lighting only for $200 or less. I think theres a renewable energy fair out east and shop there for a used pv panel, a small 12v charge controller. Go to the junk yard and scope out the tail lite or turning signal lite fixtures on the older cars. You should be able to find something suitable for cheap. Used marine batteries around here are $15-20 each. You'd need one only. Or call some of the renewable energy suppliers and ask about used panels and charge controllers. Definitely look into used cause new you're looking to spend $5- 6/watt. Used I bought a 30 watt panel for $100. several years ago which I use for remote battery charging. I'm thinking you might be able to get away with a 15-20 watt panel, depending on lite size and how much you used them. Winter considerations are valid. The battery should be in its own insulated box and vented to the outdoors. If you contact a RE dealer they should be able to help you size things properly.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), May 05, 2000.

Given your distances, and the "electric company" scalping technique of only allowing 1 residential connection per owner, I think John's ideas are good. GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), May 06, 2000.

Use a Coleman Lamp, or a kerosene lantern. The Amish use lanterns in their barns when they milk cows. It sounds like your electric company might be NYSEG or Mohawk, fuel costs at .14c per KW or more, I would not bother with them.

-- Hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), May 07, 2000.

Teresa, believe it or not automobile running lights (the tail lights and such) give off a surprising amount of light and are sized to run off 12-volt. Rather than searching for a camper to salvage, try an automobile wrecking yard -- that way you already have sockets and wiring to go with them -- and run them off a car battery. The last time I used this arrangement, for an old shed, I bought a used solar recharging panel, the kind that plugs into your car cigaret lighter and sits on the dashboard, through a classified ad to keep the battery charged up. I'm not a big fan of using open-flame lanterns in barns these days because most people just aren't accustomed to handling them properly anymore. The Amish being a notable exception, of course.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), May 07, 2000.


Teresa,

What about a small portable gasoline generator? Put a plug on the existing wiring in the barn and plug it into the generator. With a portable generator you also have emergency backup power at your house in the event of a power failure.

-- Jim (jmackay@magnus.net), May 07, 2000.


Thank you for all the help. I really like the 12 volt ideas and will do some research on the solar panels vs marine battery. Hope I can return the help sometime.

-- teresa mandracchia (teresam@ascent.net), May 07, 2000.

Teresa: I don't know if I was clear. You use the marine battery with the pv panel, thus the need for a charge controller, so the battery will be charged but not overcharged during the day so you'll have juice for lights at night. In your last note you mentioned pv vs marine battery as in one or the other instead of one with the other.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), May 08, 2000.

Teresa, We light our barn with 1 solar panel 13inches x 36inches & a marine battery. We live in North Eastern Ontario & we had light in the barn all winter long. The battery is in an attached, insultated & vented box outside the barn. Listen to John L. that's the way to go. Brenda

-- B.Reise (d+breise@norhtcom.net), May 08, 2000.

I'd go with a buried cable from the house, and oversize the wire to give you some expandibility, maybe for an outlet or two, and a phone line also, just in case you decide to add more on later. 8 gauge or 10 guage wire should be plenty for what you want to do, and since you sill be using the breaker box in the house, you will not need another one.

-- mike graveman (graveman@ku.edu), June 07, 2001.


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