..it in.

How much money would it take for people to give up whatever dull, unsatisfying job they've got and have total financial freedom to do whatever they liked. I'm just curious, as it seems to me that each stage you get to, the threshhold increases - ie if I were asked the question in my early twenties, the figure would have been a lot lower. Is this due to greed or being older and wiser?

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Answers

100k That'd buy me a good 7 years to work out what I do fancy doing.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

5mill....

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

500 000 stock options in my company...

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Well, that's two very different answers already. Gav, there must be a figure lower than #5 that would allow you a lifestyle change, that's assuming you want a lifestyle change.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I reckon if it's in you, it'll come out. The lucky ones are those who know from the word go. The rest of us end up in some rut that's going downhill at about 1 in 20 and has sides that are just out of fingertip reach.

I'm not sure that even with no cash worries, I'd make any better job of it.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Ooh that's a hard one.
(Above sentence inserted to allow Gav into the thread) It's the "total financial freedom" bit that is tricky. Over the last few years I've been looking at jacking it all in. Conclusion was that I could probably do it now and move abroad. Basically sell the house, take the money and go. If I wanted to stay where I am then the figure would be around the #500 mark to live comfortably and do the things I really want to do. Now then Windy.... is this "jacking it all in" question related in any way to any of your postings on the now defunct 'affairs' thread?

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I'm breaking my new rule of not posting on a thread with notifications turned on here :))

5mill....I considered that a minimum when posting....I spend a lot of cash on very little (waste I think some people call it!) 1 mill wouldn't last me 3 years....deadly serious!....5 mill and I could probably do enough with it so that I'd have a reasonablish income and be able to splash out a little bit...

Geordie, 500quid?!?!?!

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Not so much greed, but maybe as you get older and earnings have gone up it's harder to live on less money. Or something like that. For me to really feel financially free, I'd need something that worked out to around 40k per year(dollars or pounds). Giving me enough to afford a decent, but not over the top, standard of living while pursuing my passions and interests(none of which seem to be in areas that earn much money...if they pay at all), and be able to save a bit for retirement. I could do it on (much)less, have in the past, and am now..but it still means having to worry and give up some things. So really not being able to do anything I want. Though there is still more satisfaction in spending time doing things I really love even if it doesn't pay, than being a whore to the corporate machine. And I still live in hope that one day I'll be able to find a paying job doing something that matters to me. I wouldn't feel quite so dehumanized. :-)

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

There was supposed to a 'K' after the 500!

This debate leads into the "what do you really want to do with your life"... and then the "well why don't you do it?"

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

'A whore to the corporate machine'. This sounds like an extract from the film 'American Psycho', has anyone seen this? (Possibly start a new thread!) Threesomes to the music of Genesis (Gav come on down).

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

No Geordie, only indirectly, I'm in control of that one, I think. But I'm not sure I like the way my work life is going, despite the facts I can't really have too many complaints, as I've been fairly successful by most accounts (despite an inordinate amount of time spent on this BBS;). But it's never what I really wanted to do, and the higher up the ladder I go, the more I dislike my peer group. I've always kept work and social/family life separate and compartmentalised fairly easily, but you realise that it does effect you..even personality wise, which is scary. And I should get the opportunity to take redundancy (after a takeover), even though they're trying to keep me. I'll almost certainly take it, but it's a question of how I use it.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Not seen the movie, but corporate life does tend to make American's psycho. ;-)

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

My boss bought a series of Management Theory books by American 'gurus' which I have to lend out to people. Some of the most frightening, illiterate, psycho-babble you could ever have the misfortune to stumble accross.

I'd quote some of it here just to fry your minds gently, but it would probably quadruple the crazy mf's readership, so we can't have that. What are these people for?

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Take the package Windy!

I go through phases of hating/loving my job. I used to do it because I loved it.... now I only work for the money. I resent the time it takes out of my life. There are so many things I want to do and my job consumes the time that I should be using to persue my hapiness. I want the time away from work NOW, not when I'm 20 yrs older and retired.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Well, I'm 46, I,ll guess at 25 years to go, so, in order for me to do "what I want" for the rest of my life, a couple of hundred grand to pay off mortgages, debts etc, another 500k to invest, and another 300k to buy those things I want but dont need, so I'm in for a million (Canadian Dollars) or around 400k Sterling, and thats a very conservative estimate.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Take the package and run!! Even if you've got to eventually find yourself another job, there's tons of them around. Spend as much time as you can afford just unwinding and remembering what it's liek to LIVE. Int hat time you'll certainly figure out what you really want to do, if you don't already know. If it means taking classes to retrain, do it. If it means getting involved in something on a volunteer level to gain contacts and experience..do it. You'll feel much better about yourself, and get a chance to live a bit while you're still young enough to enjoy it.

I chucked in my fat salary a few weeks ago cause I had long ago passed the point of being completely burned out. I only stayed in the job because of the money and scheduling flexibility(it allowed me to make all those trips over to England this season, as well as participating in MLS Cup here). I knew over a year ago that the job was taking me nowhere and certainly wasn't anything close to fulfilling any of my interests. It was mainly about the money...not a high salary in the industry, but higher than I'd ever had in my life and probably than I'll ever have again. Also I felt some sense of duty to people in the department, and they began to dangle carrots in front of me to get me to stay. Change of management, carrot taken away, no more justifiable excuses for me to stay.

Since I've left....haven't been this relaxed in ages! I'm getting to do things I really enjoy, though so far not getting paid. However it's experience that should be very handy in finding some paying work...once I get off my butt and let potential employers know I'm available. ;-) And so far things are all moving towards my fulfilling at least one of my major life goals. :-)

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

With this whore and the corporate machine lark, it's a question of screwing them more than they screw you, although it sometimes get's a bit difficult to work out who's doing what to whom anyway, if you know what I mean.

One other advantage of being taken over, though, is that the work load tails off rapidly. I'm thinking about that sweaty tube again...;-)

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Shit, that's decisive Ciara. Don't worry, I'll take the package unless they really, really make it worth my while to stay. But then it's a question of how much I wind down ya knaa, I've got a wife and two kids under 3 to support - I wouldn't have that much time regardless.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Do we live to work or work to live?

I try as best I can to do whatever I want whenever I want, the money I earn has given me a large amount of freedom but it won't last forever as I'm not really saving anything....

I don't care....I'd rather live now than later...I can always try and get a job back in McDonalds when I'm retirement age ;))

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

So what's this life goal you're close to achieving, dare I ask? Personal or work related?

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Windy-

Just had my second daughter (no sons!) on saturday. Well, it's thursday and only now am I starting to get my sanity back. Days of worrying, how to pay for this, for that etc. But you're right, time is almost as valuable as money- I would love to go to europe right now and watch every football match on the continent but that would require time and money of which I have zero.

But since we're on the subject, 5 million would do it. I don't care, 5 million pounds, dollars, canadian dollars, anything. Just not turkish lira.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Yeah, the family issue does complicate things. Still, if you can afford it, it's nice to be able to spend some time with them.

The goal I was referring to is moving out of the US. I've always known it would either be to England or Ireland, just never quite figured out exactly where or how. That question was answered in March of last year. Since then I've been after the skills I need not only to get a British work permit, but to also get work doing something I somewhat enjoy since a work permit basically means indentured servitude(but with pay and benefits) for a few years until I can put in a claim for permanent residency. :-)

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I really thought I had it sussed. If i could paste the view from our home in Abaco then i would. Its balance. We decided we could not put up with the frustrations of work, and they were bad, despite was a pretty bloody perfect environment.Save the summer when it was too hot. Now we are back, and I'm into the swing of work in blighty - I'm not sure they were too bad. How much - #1mil enough to buy a beachfront property in The Bahamas and use it as a base and come back on the rare time i could get tickets to SJP

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

To do what I would want to do and buy a Scottish football club capable of challenging for honours with Rangers in Scotland, I think I would need in the region of #60 million. I think I could buy both Dundee and Dundee United for #10 million, combine them in a new stadium (#20 M) and with #30 million worth of players I could buy a team to win the league. I'd have Walter Smith as the boss with lots of English players that are coming to the end of their careers along side some talented young Scandanavians in the team. That's my dream..

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

I've just done it - arranged for my early retirement starting next Feb. I can't wait. Back in the N.E., with season tickets hopefully. I was (still am) an old fashioned academic valuing mathematics as a cultural activity, (not only as a training methodology), I am obsessed with pure mathematics research, lectured by transmitting my enthusiasm for all of the above. How have things changed - the barbarians are at the door: reductionist, superficial and f*cking well dressed with no passion in them. You can hear the creak of handle turning. I am glad I am out of it all - I can get some real work done.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Early congrats, True! :-)

Is this some kind of millennium effect? Or a cultural shift of some kind? I just got back from a class at the local community ed center. There were 5 students. 3 of the 5 had either recently quit jobs/careers we hated in order to pursue something more fulfilling, another one is going to quit in January and spend 6mos travelling before she worries about what she'll do next. I've also got several friends over here going through similar career/life shifts. And it's not all people of a certain age. The ranges are easily from early-mid 20s to 50-somethings. Interesting.

-- Anonymous, May 11, 2000

Three quotes for you:

"Most people die in their 20s - it's just that they don't get buried for another 50 years or so" --- "Is the system going to flatten you out and deny you your humanity, or are you going to be able to make use of the system to the attainment of human purposes?" --- "Never try and teach a pig to fly. It wastes your time ... and annoys the pig"

OK that last one was a red herring (or pig), but the first two were from a Careers Counsellor (that's me) who finds conversations like this one very worrying, if very typical. Money ("pick a figure, any figure") the answer ? Unlikely. Talk to people who have acquired substantial wealth, and a common thread is their increasing fear of losing what they have. Ciara's comment about millennial/cultural shift is interesting. Unsure about the former. Definitely some of the latter, though all generations have had to cope with (what felt to them) unprecedented change. Part of the human condition it would appear.

For anyone looking to be 'freed up' to start seeing the opportunities in life or work, I can recommend "The Money or Your Life" by John Clark (Tandem Press. 1997. ISBN 1877178063) and "Jobshift" by William Bridges (Allen & Unwin. 1995. ISBN 1863738789).

Enjoy!

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Looney,
If there's one trait I'd love to have been born with it's single aim single mindedness. What I mean by that is that from the word go I'd love to have known 'I'll be a footballer', or whatever, and go for that to the exclusion of everything else.

Instead, there are so many things that catch my eye, so to speak, that I'd regret having to concentrate on one and forget the rest.

I happen to believe that the older you get the more you realise that the worst thing that can happen to a person is to have to work for somebody else.

I've never ever had a job that was worth a w**k, in the long run, and if I could afford to I'd take early retirement like a shot. So, getting back to what this tread is about, a pension that let me maintain the standard of living I have now would be enough, index linked, of course, but what that would come to in hard cash over the rest of my life, I don't know, assuming I'm not going to pop my clogs in the next few minutes.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

PeteT, congratulations on your second daughter! You're a dark horse, sneaking that into the conversation like that. All the best to you and yours.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Thanks Ciara - interesting idea -the millenium effect. However what made up my mind are the massive changes that have taken place in Universities without any proper management. Student numbers have gone up with no extra resources. I went into academic life because I wanted TIME - pay is poor, but what I had was intellectual freedom and space to exploit that freedom. This I no longer have. I can earn more in three months of consultancy using low level mathematical techniques in some p*ss easy industrial problem than one year chasing my *rse in some academic merry-go-round.
Sorry for being so boring - f*cking academics in leather armchairs crying over their mid morning coffee in the Senior Common Room as their penniless overdrawn stressed students wait in vain outside oak panelled offices for a crumb of information or even (if their lucky) an undecipherable hand-out which probably has only a tangential relationship to the forthcoming examinations which will determine thier futures.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

I second the congrats, to both PeteT and True. This thread probably seems a bit self-contemplative and up your arse for some, but I for one have found the responses interesting. I think there is definitely a growing trend, as mentioned by Ciara, of people who are no longer afraid of breaking out of the corporate model of what is supposed to be ambition.

True, how have you found academic life as a whole? My younger brother 's just got his doctorate, but is far from set on the idea of an academic life, citing pettiness and very average, uninspiring people (but he is in Manchester!). He's into bio-informatics, so he could easily sell out big time to one of the drugs companies. I suspect he'll stick in the academic world, perhaps go to the States.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Handouts? What a shocking waste of resources! They should be placed on the web so that the overdrawn, stressed students can provide their own paper to print them off, freeing up valuable space in the paper store for a desk for a new accountant. The money will allow the Principal to make that vital exchange trip to Bangkok, where he funds an orphanage for pale, young boys....I'm afraid you just have to look at the bigger picture Dr True.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Windy - Bio-informatics, yes thats really taking off. UK universities are starting such Depts. up as it seems to be attracting big bucks. I would head off for the States - at one time the received wisdom was that the States was too competitive - you had to be a research paper machine or get big money. But the same is now true for the UK and salaries are worse.
Quality Assessment with knobs on - value for money - lack of trust of professional judgement of academics (perhaps with some justification) have all contributed to, from a purely selfish point of view, a fall- off in the quality of academic life.
I loved academic life, contact with young people, meeting fellow academics, wallowing in research (really mental masturabation), organising my own work. I did a lot of consultancy and made significant contributions to solving practical problems.
Yes, if you can get away from the suits it is still a rewarding and fulfilling job.



-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

I just need one rich man :-))

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

I just need enough invested to give me a $50,000 a year return. And of course four season tickets for the toon for which I would raffle off every match day with the profits going to a local charity. Tickets would only be a bin lid each.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Ciara,

Good luck to you, I'm sure everything will work out. If you have the desire, things will happen. If along the way things become a bit difficult, don't despair, you will look back one day and joke about it. But try not to burn any bridges! America is the land of opportunity, even the land of second opportunities.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

Softie,

I have to admit, just the idea of having a second child had a powerful effect on me. I read some books about how 1+1 is >2 etc. Yes, it's not easy and its only been six days but I'm back and my head is now screwed on a little better.

Actually, I'm thinking ahead 18 years to the Women's professional league and the WNBA!! If women's sports are still around by then I will have my girls signed up. My 2 year old is already watching soccer and likes it.

How's the Mrs. doing? Let me know if you want any advice for D-Day.

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

I was wondering about your team's distraction in the Corinthian League :-)

It's looking horribly like Bobby will be arriving on the opening day of the season or thereabouts. I've already pointed out that Nicola will have to get it announced over the tannoy and could she also tell them to announce the score because the view isn't very good from the top of the new tier.

I'm a bit more worried about being at the birth. I have a dreadful habit of cracking jokes at inappropriate moments, I'm very likely to say, "Howay, Pet, not bad for a fat lass!" when she finishes pushing the little perisher out and get myself divorced in the process :-(

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

You can worry all you want about the birth, it will just happen. And don't worry about Nicola- she wont remember a word you say!

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

If the tales my sweet, saintly mom tells are true, Softie, you may need to be more worried about the abuse Nicola will be screaming at you in the delivery room. Probably make Howey blush. ;-))

-- Anonymous, May 12, 2000

What a thread! Some great, contemplative posts. This BBS is truly amazing. I'm only sorry I've been off line for several days and missed the opportunity to contribute to what is now probably a dead thread.

I spent several years advising staff who were agonising whether to take early retirement, or voluntary redundancy, etc. - often through misplaced loyalty, or a fear of how they would adjust their lifestyles - to get out just as soon as they felt they could afford it, and without being overly conservative.

Two years ago, at 52, I finally took my own advice - and have enjoyed every minute.

I had reached the top of my own particular corporate ladder, and found I was having less and less time to do the truly creative things that I believe had been responsible for getting me to where I found myself, and also found myself still working for other masters. In this case the 'masters' were the Banks and pig-ignorant, arrogant, uncaring, unsophisticated, unreasonable, demanding investors, who I quickly found where infinitely more unpleasant people than the any of the bosses I had previously worked for, and definitely not the kind of people you would choose to spend 5 seconds socialising with.

To cut a long story short, I managed to get out in before the job killed me - thanks largely to the pressure exerted by my good wife - God bless her.

-- Anonymous, May 13, 2000

C,mon folks listnen to Buff, Clarkie has got it right, you aint got nothing if you aint got your health, this stupid aul bugar has been on the slippery slope since Xmas, not many postings of late, cos I have been in hospital with a jam tart that is to quote a Autoclinic Report, "Unrepairable", so thats frosted tatties oot the window and I say Buff steady on the fluid intake, allowed 4 pints a day (everything) so its whiskey and more whiskey. Got oot last Tuesday, got my own little re-hab nurse, waiting to go onto this new drug, under ward conditions so apart from that everythings tickety boo, back to work and posting,missed you lot when interned, dollar saved is a dollar wasted, see Gavs posting, happy borthdays to Jonno (me and Jonno, the boys from the balcony)also to Jay. To finish, you know what I hate about my present situation as a Geordie, wor lass is going to employ a gardener, totally against the grain, not one nurse/sister in hospital could identify with Nye Bevan. Its aal the tablets, am rattling!!!!

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Get well soon bonnie lad , more time on the BBS than anyone else now , so nae excuse for not overtaking Gav or Ciara : - ) Good to hear you and hope you're back for pre-season training .

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Hey Buff!!

Long time no hear mate!! Over the moon to have you back!!

Just make certain you don't leave us again!! or else you'll have the dingle in the hat to deal with!!

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Welcome back Buff, you've been missed.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Great to hear from you again Buff. Keep taking the tablets! Hopefully the close season won't be as stressful on the old ticker as a season following The Lads.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Good to have you back Buff. Health is the thing we take most for granted...until it suffers. Best of luck and take it easy.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Good to see you back, Buff! :-)

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

A gardener, eh? The sneaky option would be to shout 'advice' at him all day so that people would be so affeared for your health they'd reinstate you as the man with the mower. This would in turn allow you to work up a thirst. Everyone's a winner.

Seriously, Buff, you need to get down here next season to keep an eye on that whippersnapper Robson and his new-fangled notions. Let us know what you think about the stadium redevelopment. I reckon that I'm well overdue a clip round the ear and some words of wisdom from yours truly :-)

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Buff,
I'm sure there must be someone on here who can advise you what to look out for in the hedge trimming department, just so this gardener guy doesn't try to get away with arboreal murder. :-))

Good to have you back.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Following on from Bill's kind offer of Screacher's services...I'd also like to volunteer Galaxy's gardening services....I hear she's really good!!

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Thanx all, I needed that, don`t pretend to know the reason but I was a wee bit nervous posting again,it seems like a new start, everyone at work knows the BBs and Newcastle UNITED are my love affairs, into work this morning at 6.30 am handover, "Jeez Buff, your gonna have some catching up to do on the BBs" was my welcome back. I am 3/4 thro a 12 hr shift and honestly I feel fine, even better, 1600 early operations crew coming aboard, first one Jock Massie wearing Newcastle UNITED baseball hat, on asked why he follows UNITED retorts , I loved the football they played, and I loved the buzz of the people, that perks me up no end. Must mention, whilst in hospital I was in a small room (4), part of the ladies ward, it was there that I came into contact with The Patient from Portsoy. I think she was a veteran downhill cardiaccer, so she got my respect, also ex-ladies capt at well known golf club, problem being full coverage from the Belfry, nice lounge, the lady was also a soap nut and when I say soap I am talking major washdowns, Take the high road to Corination St stopping en route , saving Brookside Omminbus for Saturday night. Every time I entered the lounge, she would say, "Like the golf", oh yes, luv it, well our lads are not out yet so I will just watch the finish of Home and Away, her knuckles white clutching the remote. Give me strength, Taking a rest from football, the cup final was a insult, will be shouting for the team I have championed all year in the CL, Valencia and Mendetta, just got something I like about them, could be honesty

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Great to see your monica at the bottom of a post again Buff - I've been wondering where you've been.
Take good care of the old jam tart, and keep posting - your wit 'n wisdom are an integral part of this thing.
Welcome back & best wishes.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Gan canny big fella, and keep us all tickin I:o))

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000

Buff....!!

You see from the above postings how much you are cared about and have been missed.

Good to have you back.

val.

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2000