Riches in the Vatican

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How can the RCC say that it is the true Church of Christ, when we see the accumulation of riches in the Vatican?. Joseph

-- Joseph Berni (otrora@excite.com), May 30, 2000

Answers

Hello, Joseph.

Just as Jesus was constantly and unfairly attacked, so too his "mystical body," the Church, is constantly and unfairly attacked.

Though it is not really factual, let us assume for a moment that you are correct -- that "we see [an] accumulation of riches in the Vatican" -- implying that the Vatican has humongous stores of cash, jewels, gold, and that it keeps hoarding more and more of the same, with no concern whatsoever for the poor, who could be totally and permanently relieved of their misery, if ONLY the greedy Catholic Church would part with its quintillions of dollars!!!

But how could the idea that the Vatican has "an accumulation of riches" prove that the Catholic Church is not "the true Church of Christ?" Speaking of its members alive on earth today, the Catholic Church [not "RCC"] consists of more than one billion people spread out across all the nations of the earth. They range from a few fabulously wealthy people [none of whom are at the Vatican!] to the destitute poor who are starving to death as I write this. It is not reasonable to judge the Church as a whole based on one's perceptions of people at a certain location (Vatican City). As you will find, by checking encyclopedias and prominent history books not edited by Catholics, Jesus founded the Catholic Church almost 2,000 years ago. As such, she alone is "the true Church of Christ." Anyone who would argue that she ceased to be "the true Church of Christ" upon (allegedly) becoming wealthy would be arguing that God was incapable of keeping his promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church. Obviously, then, one would be wrong. Great wealth, in and of itself, does not disqualify a person or institution from being truly Christian. What must be considered instead are poverty of spirit and willingness to share wealth when it is possible and prudent to do so.

But let us consider the false allegation of wealthiness/miserliness of the Catholic Church, Joseph, so that we can remove this misperception from your mind. It does not matter whether it was placed there by your minister, by your reading inaccurate printed materials, or by the anti-Catholic media which has long fostered this lie. No matter the source, it is dead wrong and unjust.

Several years ago, author Karl Keating was asked questions similar to yours:
He replied: "The Vatican's yearly budget is about the size of that of the Archdiocese of Chicago. The funds go partly for the upkeep of the Vatican itself, partly for missionary and other work around the world. Not bad for an organization with a billion members. If someone thinks the Vatican is fabulously wealthy, perhaps asking for a little proof isn't out of line. If someone is a conspiracy theorist, no amount of argumentation will work. You could give the person a certified copy of all the secret Vatican financial records, and he'd just say that they're fakes ...
"I suppose we could ask why the Vatican has trouble balancing its rather small annual budget. The wealth of the Church is almost entirely in church buildings, hospitals, schools, and missions, plus artworks. You could sell off the artworks, but the proceeds wouldn't feed the poor of the world for even a day.
"... If the Vatican sold all its artworks, they would bring in hundreds of millions of dollars -- but only once. Then they would be gone, and that money wouldn't go very far. (In the U.S. alone we spend hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars each year on welfare-related programs.) Second, the popes are custodians, not owners. They have a responsibility to preserve these [bequeathed/donated] artistic treasures for posterity, not to sell them off to private collections. Third, these artworks are things of beauty, and all beauty relates back to the one Beauty, which is God. The Church knows that we can approach God in many ways, and one of them is through beautiful art.

Another Catholic layman (an expert on social issues), Dr. Jean-Francois Orsini, was asked a couple of years ago: "There is no doubt in my mind that a great deal of the Church's power and influence is a consequence of its property and influence of churches, schools, convents, monasteries, Vatican City, and etc. But my question is this: Other than the necessity of the properties listed above, why doesn't the Church sell its other properties and land holdings, and use the money made for the poor?"
He replied: "Why did Our Lord allow Mary Magdalene to put perfume on His head when the money could have been used to help the poor of His time? [He said, 'The poor you will always have with you.']
The teaching of the story ... does not mean that the Church should not help the poor. It means that the Church can spend money on its own appearance without being afraid of taking that money away from the poor. ... It is very materialistic to believe that the Church is mostly a social aid agency. Of course it must try and alleviate much human suffering. But to believe that is her primarily goal is wrong. Another passage of the Bible states 'the poor have received the good news.' That is supposed to be the best thing that the poor could get: the Gospel, not bread and shelter. Because that is the best thing for all human beings. ... All programs to alleviate human misery should be subordinated to Job #1 [communicating the truths of faith and morals]. Naturally priests and religious should strive to become saints and show us what they mean by example ..."

Perhaps you are not aware, Joseph, that there are hundreds of thousands of Catholic monks and nuns around the world who take a vow of poverty? They own nothing personally, and their shared homes, clothing, and food are not extravagant (sometimes even meager). Surely you know that the late Mother Teresa of Calcutta was a Catholic and that she has thousand of other Sisters of Charity imitating her around the world today. Perhaps you are not aware, Joseph, that the single largest private provider of money and goods to people in areas of drought, disaster, etc., is the U.S.-based "Catholic Relief Services?" -- and that there are other, similar Catholic organizations around the world. There is no entity, public or private, in the history of mankind, that has done as much for the needy (without regard to their race or religion) as the Catholic Church has done and continues to do. Much of the sacrificial giving is encouraged and even mandated by the very Vatican that you have heard falsely accused of accumulating riches.

Joseph, we are praying for you. We ask for your prayers in return.
To God be the glory.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 30, 2000.

JFG,

I heard that Vatican City was actually BUILT on the Pope's personal hoard of gold and jewels, hence the law forbidding the removal of sidewalks/streets or digging in one's basement as the treasure would be exposed.

Are you saying that this was an exaggeration, that only SOME of the Vatican is a hidden storeroom of treasure?

Eagerly awaiting the truth of the matter,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 31, 2000.


Frank,
I think that your tongue is so firmly planted in your cheek that surgery may be necessary to remove it.
JFG
PS: The only "treasure" that was buried below the Vatican was the mortal remains of St. Peter.

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), May 31, 2000.

JFG,

Well, maybe ;-)

Actually though, you did inspire a more serious question, though. Do you happen to know where the remains of John the Baptist are located?

Thanks,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 02, 2000.


I did not know anything about this, Frank, until I checked the Catholic Encyclopedia. Here is what I found:
John
---------------------------------------------------

His burial-place has been fixed by an old tradition at Sebaste (Samaria). But if there be any truth in [early Jewish historian] Josephus's assertion, that John was put to death at Machaerus, it is hard to understand why he was buried so far from the Herodian fortress. Still, it is quite possible that, at a later date unknown to us, his sacred remains were carried to Sebaste. At any rate, about the middle of the fourth century, his tomb was there honoured, as we are informed on the testimony of Rufinus and Theodoretus. These authors add that the shrine was desecrated under Julian the Apostate (c. A.D. 362), the bones being partly burned. A portion of the rescued relics were carried to Jerusalem, then to Alexandria; and there, on 27 May, 395, these relics were laid in the gorgeous basilica just dedicated to the Precursor on the site of the once famous temple of Serapis.

The tomb at Sebaste continued, nevertheless, to be visited by pious pilgrims, and St. Jerome bears witness to the miracles there wrought. Perhaps some of the relics had been brought back to Sebaste. Other portions at different times found their way to many sanctuaries of the Christian world, and long is the list of the churches claiming possession of some part of the precious treasure.

What became of the head of the Precursor is difficult to determine. Nicephorus (I, ix) and Metahrastes say Herodias had it buried in the fortress of Machaerus; others insist that it was interred in Herod's palace at Jerusalem; there it was found during the reign of Constantine, and thence secretly taken to Emesa, in Phoenicia, where it was concealed, the place remaining unknown for years, until it was manifested by revelation in 453. In the many and discordant relations concerning this relic, unfortunately much uncertainty prevails; their discrepancies in almost every point render the problem so intricate as to baffle solution. This signal relic, in whole or in part, is claimed by several churches, among them Amiens, Nemours, St-Jean d'Angeli (France), S. Silvestro in Capite (Rome).

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 02, 2000.


JFG,

Thanks, and more importantly, thanks for reminding me that I *do* have the Encyclopedia linked. Sorry to put you through the work of looking up something I should have checked for myself.

John really paid for his faith, both in life, and even, it seems, after death.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 03, 2000.


Dear Friends,

I returned this week from a visit to Spain. The first 2 days my wife and I spent in Santiago Compostela, the shrine of the holy Apostle St. James. Afterwards the cities of Leon, Burgos and Madrid, all of them replete with great art treasures and lavish churches.

Pilgrims still walk the way of St James, from all over Europe, and we were happy to attend the Pilgrim's Mass, concelebrated by Spanish, French and German priests. The great Botafumeiro, a huge censor, was raised during the communion prayer; a most wonderful sight. All the images, altars of precious gold leaf and the holy silver coffer, reliquary of the remains of the Apostle-- are unforgettable attractions to thousands of visitors.

Now, many sincere people may object to these ''ostentations'', but I have to tell you, every single penny's worth of these are evidence of the people's love of God and His saints! In the hearts of these people, no expense is too great for God! Every stained- glass window, every altar and every work of art is lavished on GOD!

Furthermore, I've never yet met a priest who had the authority to sell any church property; so any concept of ''wealth'' --as the world knows it, is false. The Spanish government, in fact, clearly marks these sites, as well as monasteries, schools, etc., as Patrimonios de la Humanidad, or the Heritage of all Humanity. It belongs, not to the church, or the government, or even the Spanish people. It is the eternal property of all human beings on the earth

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), June 05, 2000.


Dear Friends,

I returned this week from a visit to Spain. The first 2 days my wife and I spent in Santiago Compostela, the shrine of the holy Apostle St. James. Afterwards the cities of Leon, Burgos and Madrid, all of them replete with great art treasures and lavish churches.

Pilgrims still walk the way of St James, from all over Europe, and we were happy to attend the Pilgrim's Mass, concelebrated by Spanish, French and German priests. The great Botafumeiro, a huge censor, was raised during the communion prayer; a most wonderful sight. All the images, altars of precious gold leaf and the holy silver coffer, reliquary of the remains of the Apostle-- are unforgettable attractions to thousands of visitors.

Now, many sincere people may object to these ''ostentations'', but I have to tell you, every single penny's worth of these are evidence of the people's love of God and His saints! In the hearts of these people, no expense is too great for God! Every stained- glass window, every altar and every work of art is lavished on GOD!

Furthermore, I've never yet met a priest who had the authority to sell any church property; so any concept of ''wealth'' --as the world knows it, is false. The Spanish government, in fact, clearly marks these sites, as well as monasteries, schools, etc., as Patrimonios de la Humanidad, or the Heritage of all Humanity. It belongs, not to the church, or the government, or even the Spanish people. It is the eternal property of all human beings on the earth.

-- Eugene Chavez (rechavez@popmail.ucsd.edu), June 05, 2000.


Welcome back, Eugene! I (sinlessly) envy you. What a beautiful trip it must have been!
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), June 05, 2000.

At one time the Church did have the power and did impose a tax on every kingdom. The wealth of this did build the Vatican. The use of this bothered Luther, and contributed to the loss of Germany, England, and many other countries.

The dude has the facts, they just are centuries out of date. Smiling at it all, Sean

-- Sean Cleary (sean_cleary@bigfoot.com), August 03, 2000.



Hello, Sean.
You wrote, "At one time the Church did have the power and did impose a tax on every kingdom. The wealth of this did build the Vatican. The use of this bothered Luther, and contributed to the loss of Germany, England, and many other countries."

I am not familiar with the sweeping charge you have made. The Church "tax[ed] ... every kingdom"? Could you please cite specific facts for us and give us your sources? I'm wondering if you obtained this information from reliable writers or from anti-Catholics who are not in possession of the facts. I wonder if you would allow me to take your detailed description, book titles, authors' names, etc., and ask a noted church historian about them (a man who answers questions online)?

I had previously read that Fr. Martin Luther, an Augustinian monk, objected to the practice of certain priests in Germany [not the pope/Vatican] who were alleged to be selling indulgences. To my knowledge, this was not related to taxation.

Thanks, Sean.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), August 05, 2000.

Hello all,

Wouldn't the Church on Earth Jesus Christ himself established be the richest in wealth and spirit! Who would dare say Christ's Church is too wealthy. Who would dare say Christ's Church is too big. Jesus said he would always be with us. He said the gates of hell would not overcome his Church. The Holy Spirit dwells within, actively guiding it. If you say the Church has too much wealth you are saying the Holy Spirit has too much influence!

Who would shortchange the majesty of our Lord!

-- Michael (pickandpen@aol.com), August 11, 2000.


if we want a perfect model how to live and love like jesus said we can look at mother teresa.jesus said to a young rich man.if you want to be a good{religious leader } sell everything you have ,give to poor and follow me. he did not mention places like palace, vatican city,banks,church courts,church private schools.etc etc. jesus him self was born in a cave.if he wanted he can be born in a palace of gold.but he showed us that he in this world was rich in his heart!!! and give him self to us.even his life he gived us!! the holy spirit is the vicar of the church.be blessed the name of jesus.

-- antonio (baksi_jacob@yahoo.com), December 04, 2003.

The Vatican was sacked in 800 AD by Sarecen pirates who stripped St Peter's basilica of its gold (that was the basilica constructed by Constantine in the 300's).

The Vatican was later abandoned in the 13th century when the Popes moved briefly to Avingon, France, to escape the civil wars raging in Italy.

In the 1520's Rome was invaded and sacked by a German army - the Pope just barely escaped to the castle Saint Angel and 127 Swiss guard were killed en route (which is why to this day the Vatican has a Swiss guard...)

In the 1790's Napoleon's armies invaded, conquered Italy, sacked the Vatican and took the pope prisoner back to France.

So if the Vatican was sitting on some massive horde of gold and jewels...it certainly hasn't had them in centuries! The French Masons certainly didn't find any terrible secret in the "secret archives"!

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), December 04, 2003.


To say the vatican church is anything but the richest organization on earth is like saying most lawyers are good people trying to help people in the name of justice. I don't need to know the history of a person that drives by me in a 100.000 dollor car and watch him park in front of his expensive house to figure out the fact he's wealthy. If you think that the vatican hasn't enough money to save some lives, then I think you're faith has blinded you. You seem like a very nice fellow and I wish someone like you ran the vatican and allowcated the funds. ty

-- vincent phillips (vinman3@mts.net), December 31, 2003.


There is no ''Vatican church'', Vincent. You don't even know the name of the Catholic Church and you're passing judgment. I suspect you're one of those dollar-hungry misers who never thinks of God at all. Just who has riches & who has no riches. You won't give God a nickel without screaming like a panther passing razor-blades. Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 31, 2003.

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