Is there anybody using XTOL. I'm constantly getting bubble marks in some frames when I use it. No matter how much I tap the small tank in the bottom to release bubles. It seems that during agitation it bubles too much. Is that a characteristic of this developer?

-- Herbet Camerino (hbrasileiro@cihi.ca), May 31, 2000

Answers

Sorry to bring up such an obvious point, but how aggressively are you agitating?

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), May 31, 2000.

5 inversions in 5 seconds (turning the tank upside down) at each 1 min.

-- herbet camerino (hbrasileiro@cihi.ca), May 31, 2000.

Well that sounds OK, but I meant how 'violently' are you shaking the tank? I.e., is it possible you are creating the bubbles through motion? You only need to agitate aggressively enough to get the first layer of developer broken up at the film plane...

-- shawn (shawngibson_prophoto@yahoo.com), May 31, 2000.

Usually the cause of bubbles is the water - or the gases (air) in it. If you use tap water, let it stay for a while or, better still, use warm water and cool it down, then soluble gases do not make bubbles.

There is no obvious reason why a deveveloper would make more bubbles than another, the main ingredients are usually very similar - or is there?

Sakari

-- Sakari Makela (sakari.makela@koulut.vantaa.fi), May 31, 2000.

My first films with Xtol got bubbles. I didn't use a water pre-soak, because I think I read where Kodak didn't recommend it for this film.

I had this problem many years ago with Plus-X in 120.

So here's what I suggest.

1. Use an initial water pre-soak. Make sure the water is the same temperature as the developer, and run it for 1 to 2 minutes. The emulsion absorbs the water, and wets it. It reduces the chance for air bubbles to cling to the film. Dump the water and drain. By the way, this also helps disolve the anti-halation backing and dyes, so don't be surprised if the water is colored when it comes out.

Note that this reduces the development slightly, but I've not found it to be of any consequence. And those air bubbles ruin the negative.

2. Don't use an acid stop bath. Use a plain water bath instead. Running water is the best, but impractical for most tank processing. Use 2 or 3 exchanges of water. Again, make it the same temperature as the developer.

3. Use an alkaline fixer. Photographer's Formulary TF4. This keeps the whole process alkaline, and prevents gas bubbles from "erupting" in the emulsion. In addition, TF-4 has great capacity, doesn't smell, fixes fast, and washes out easier than acid based fixers.

Actually, 1 & 2 will probably solve your problem. But TF-4 is so great, I had to put in the plug.

-- Charlie Strack (charlie_strack@sti.com), May 31, 2000.

Sakari, Xtol is an ascorbic acid based developer part of the environmentally safe chemicals from Kodak. I think that's why it produces more bubles than the others. It's like C vitamin :-)

Thanks for the suggestions Charlie, I'll try the pre-soaking process. Is the TF-4 fixer you've mentioned from Kodak?

-- herbet camerino (hbrasileiro@cihi.ca), May 31, 2000.

Woooaaa! Bubbles? That means that I wont try Xtol! I tried Neofin Blue a couple of times, but got those nasty bubbles. Tried to agitate slowly, but still got them. You can get bubbles if the water or the film is alkali (spelling?) and reacts with the acid in the developer.

For the moment I use D-76, Rodinal and Acutol/Aculux 2 with good results. No bubbles whatsoever.

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), May 31, 2000.

I use about 5 liters of Xtol each month and I have never gotten the bubbles. I do pre-soak and I always use distilled water to mix the powders and for the dilution. Use of distilled water is probably an overkill but it works for me. I agitate continuously for the first minute and once each minute afterwards. Consistently beautiful negatives.

-- Bob Bedwell (rlb@triad.rr.com), May 31, 2000.

I have bee using XTOL for about 2 years and I do not have the air bubble problem.I don't presoak, I use 1/2 strength KodaK Indicator Stop Bath and "plain old" Kodak Fixer. Needless to say I don't use distilled water. I'm starting to feel guilty. The only problem I've had with XTOL is the faulty packaging but Kodak seems to have fixed that problem.

-- Robert Orofino (rorofino@iopener.net), June 01, 2000.

Do you use a wetting agent on your film after washing ? If so, how well are you washing the reels afterwards ? You could be carrying some over into the developer. Just a thought.

-- jim megargee (mvjim@interport.net), June 01, 2000.

First, the obvious, are you sure you are getting air bells (bubble marks)?

Second, how are you adding the developer? The best way is to have the tank full of developer in the dark with the top off. Once you get the reels loaded, just drop them in the tank and then put the top on.

Have you tried a wetting agent? You could add a SMALL amount of Photo Flo or Edwal LFN to the developer.

ANd as others have asked, what about your water? I would try some mixed purely with distilled water (for both mixing the powder and for diluting the stock). This will remove that variable.

-- Terry Carraway (TCarraway@compuserve.com), June 01, 2000.

I use Xtol. Stock mixed with distilled water. Diluted 1+2 with tap water. No presoak. 1/2 strength indicator stop. I use Patterson tanks with the reel "twirler". Never had bubbles in 4 years.

-- Tim Brown (brownt@ase.com), June 01, 2000.

Herbert, here is an idea: Do a test on your water. Maybe it's a bit alcalic and that makes bubbles if it's mixed with acid like the ascorbic acid in X-tol. Take a glass of water and put a little citric acid in it and mix. See if you get bubbles. You can also use ph test paper. If you get bubbles or the indicator paper shows that your water is alcali, use destilled water when you develop film.

Hey! Why is X-tol made of ascorbic acid? How come that vitamin C can develop film? Hmmmm...

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), June 02, 2000.

I don't know why, but if you want to check kodak's page here is the link to the XTOL description: http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/global/en/professional/webCatalog.pl? cc=US&lc=en&product=XTOL+Developer,+KODAK

It is indeed ascorbic acid. Not so strange to me anymore after I read here that you can use cofee as a developer as well :^)

The best thing of it is that it is environmentally safe.

-- herbet camerino (hbrasileiro@cihi.ca), June 02, 2000.

How about carbonated X-tol with lemon flavor? :-))

Sorry, but I just had to...

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), June 02, 2000.

Would make impossible the task to eliminate the bubbles from the negs, but would definetly be refreshing :^)

-- herbet camerino (hbrasileiro@cihi.ca), June 02, 2000.

Herbet,

All developers are environmentally safe, they are all bio degradeable. What they are not is safe for skin contact. Going to Ascorbic acid as a developing agent makes it safer for YOU to use.

-- Terry Carraway (TCarraway@compuserve.com), June 04, 2000.

I've used XTOL on a variety of films with no pre-soak and no bubbles. I do use Ilford's (and others') recommended agitation scheme: 4 s-l-o-w inversions over 10 seconds every minute. Using distilled water is another good idea; it can make a big difference, depending on your tap water.

-- Brian Hinther (BrianH@sd314.k12.id.us), June 06, 2000.