Need Help With Stubborn Horse!

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ok, I wrote earlier about our 6 yr. old gelding. We changed his bit hoping that was the problem. I called and talked to someone and he thinks my horse is "barn sour". Now what do we do? He refuses to obey the reins (sp.?), only goes where he wants, etc.. I know some of you are gonna get mad at me but we were even trying to switch his butt with a rope to get him to obey. He just throws his head, bucks gently and refuses to move! If we keep persisting he starts to listen but each time trying to get him to move, it's another battle! HELP!!! We are totally frustrated!!! His hooves are fine, trimmed recently, we clean them out before we ride, etc.. Thanks for the advice!!!

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), June 17, 2000

Answers

Threre are no quick fixes when it comes to horses, you must be patient. If barn sourness is the problem, 1. don't take him out only to ride, take him out for other things, matbe just grooming or munching on some greener grass, 2. never let him pick up the pace or try to turn back to the barn. If at first you cannot get him to move, place a chain end lead under his chin, and when he refuses, tighten it quickly(just like a dog training collar)and ask him to move forward again. Don't let him win, everytime he gets away with the bad behavoir, it will be harder to break. If you know he does something at a certain point or when he gets a certain look, anticipate it and be ready to correct him instantly. Remember patience!

-- ginger (majic99@home.com), June 17, 2000.

I have a 5 year old Arabian gelding who sometimes does the same thing. He just refuses to go anywhere. When he does this, I usually lead him away from the barn, then mount and ride him back to it. If he refusing to move, I found that smacking him lightly on the flank will usually get him going. It doesn't hurt, but he decides it's a lot better to move than to stay and get smacked. Also, is your horse fully trained or only green broke? If he's not trained that well you can't expect a whole lot. Hope this helps. Good luck! :)

-- Elizabeth (mstydale@aeroinc.net), June 17, 2000.

well, I'm assuming he's totally broke. He rode fine the first month after we purchased him. they told us he was a ranch horse, heads cows, herds, ropes, etc.. He does get awful excited around the cows!

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), June 17, 2000.

Hi Pat,

We bought a mare in April who was barn sour and spoiled rotten. She had learned that bad behavior got her left alone. It took awhile, but my inexperienced daughter can ride unsupervised now and the horse is settled down.

Before she is saddled or bridled, if she turns so I can't catch her, I smack her rump with my hand or the reins and I don't let her stop until I say whoa, about 3 minutes, then tell her to stand while I put the headstall on her. She is a little less interested in running and bucking after that.

We have her in a hackamore. They cannot run and buck if they cannot breathe. We wear a riding helmet. It gives us a little more courage to be more stubborn than her.

She likes to act up at the end of the driveway. She wants to run left back to her old home and barn and if we don't let her she starts to buck. With the left rein in my left hand, I grab her mane, and the right hand pulls the right rein real hard to get her to face right. If she starts to buck, I give her the reins and kick hard, and turn her the direction I want to go before she has a chance to think about it.

We keep her out of the barn as much as possible except on rainy days. We feed her elsewhere and restrict her access to the barn. And she gets no grain an hour before we ride or an hour after riding.

Remember, horses have the mental maturity equal to that of a seven year old kid. They may be bigger, but we can be more stubborn and hopefully much smarter. There were days when I was quite sore, and we broke tack, but we won. She is now respectful and obedient and a safe horse for the kids. The best advice I got was, "You have to earn her respect just like you do a little kid."

You can do this. Be brave be firm. We are all here for support and encouragement. Laura

-- Laura Senderhauf (gsend@hotmail.com), June 17, 2000.


To start you need a non leverage bit which is a snaffle to get the horse to give his head both directions. It is important for the rider to pull one rein at a time. Make sure your rein that you are not using is totally slack. Keep your hand down in height when using the turning rein. You can do this with the horse on the ground first.Horses have an instinct to conserve their energy so they will have the energy to run when a predator attacks. Begin working the horse in a place where he does not tend to balk with you. Walk him in a circle and gradually take his head so he is bending it more and more until you can have him looking towards your knee, and he will, on his own, stop. The riders responsablity is to slacken the outside rein so the horse is not prevented from turning his head, sitting in balance which will be slightly to the outside seat bone, your legs will do nothing. The object is to keep getting the circe smaller and smaller until the horse comes to a stop on his own. After the horse does stop, hold the rein for a bit and release the horse. Do the other side . This will show the horse you can take his head from him and control his feet. After you get this, the next step is to ride in a circle and do a circle within the circle and if the horse stalls out use your outside leg and bump a bit with your leg.If the horse will not listen to your leg, take a long willow or crop and use your leg first in a light touch and then use the crop on his outside hip. This will cause him to move forward into the turning rein.It is like when in a car, It turns easier if you move forward and turn. Get those excercises down, may take an hour to weeks depending on the horse and your riding skill. Now back to being barn sour. Remember the conserve the energy instinct? Begin to ride out to where the horse is almost at the place where he begins to act up. Begin circling with using your outside leg to drive him into the turn. Make it hard work to the horse.circle at least 4 times in a small circle. When you're aiming back to the direction you wanted to go, stop the horse and let him rest. do the other side same method.What you are showing the horse is staying home is where the hard work is done and going out is easier. You can gradually extend your place where you can begin to do this doubling.Without seeing your horse behave in person, this is a method that is the best foundation training and the safest for you. Makes sense to horses too.

-- lynda Dale, horse trainer (lyndadan@cyberhighway.net), June 18, 2000.


Pat, this is not really a suggestion but something you just might think about. The big expense for a horse is usually not the cost of the horse but the place to board it, the grain, hay etc. and all the precious time you put in. You might want to think about letting someone with a lot of experience have the stubborn horse and buy youself a young, good-dispositioned horse and train it right from the get-go. It'd be a lot more fun for you and probably a lot less expense. Eagle

-- eagle (eagle@alpha1.net), June 19, 2000.

I am sorry you are still having problems with your horse. I have trained horses for years! The the Best MOST Safe advise I can give you is... find a good honest horse trainer that is willing to work with you.

Or sell him and find another horse that is well trained!

Right now from what you desribe your horse is a danger to you and your family. Play if safe, Please.

-- Bergere (autumnhaus@aol.com), June 19, 2000.


I agree with above post, a horse who wont cooperate is like driving a car with no stearing, sooner or later there will be a crash.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), June 19, 2000.

Keeping or selling is, of course, up to you. If he is only refusing to go and not making moves to hurt you, I think there is hope.

A horse refuses to leave the barn and rushes to return because that is the most comfortable place for him. You have to change that.

Don't feed him in or near the barn. Take some grain along on the ride. Stop about half-way through and feed him on the trail, away from the barn.

When you return from the ride, don't let him go immediately. Work him at the barn. Walk some patterns. Figure eights or put out some barrels and walk patterns. Don't do the same one's every time, that'll get old for you both. Let him know that the barn is not always the best place to be.

Don't take the same path home every time.

Find the book "Problem Solving" by Marty Marten It is a Western Horseman book. If you can't find it at a bookstore, their address is:

Western Horseman Inc. 3850 North Nevada Ave. Box 7980 Colorado Springs, CO 80933-7980

Good luck!

Mona

-- Mona (jascamp@ipa.net), June 19, 2000.


Pat,

You are getting excellent advice here. The horse you have is only 6 and may have been ridden only 2-3 years lightly, which means it is really still a green horse. You need to get your own riding skill up to snuff as well. Absolutely find a skilled trainer to help you if you decide to keep this horse. Otherwise find a school horse or one that is over 10 that is well ridden. Take a skilled horse person with you to evaluate the horse.

I have an Arab that I ride (when I have time) and my daughter's girl friend rides on week-ends. Because my daughter's friend is not a skilled rider, she pretty much lets the horse do what it wants and doesn't make it go the direction she wants. I rode this week-end and had to do a little attitude adjusting with the horse. We are having a discussion with the friend to not allow this behavior and teaching her how to overcome the Arab's strong will. Luckily this horse is a very good horse and very easily re-set in her ways, but any other horse could be a major problem.

If you don't know where to find a skilled horse person, call any horse organization, most have state chapters and they are usually more than willing to help. Many have web-sites as well.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), June 19, 2000.



A horse is a horse, of course...Just kidding. One thing to remember with a horse is that you can't rely on someone else to train him. Think of a horse like a favorite dog. Horses need to build a relationship with you which takes a lot of time. You can't be a part- time horseman. You can be an owner, but that is not the same thing. A horse is a very intelligent animal, and thus, needs to be part of your life if you want it to do things with you (not FOR you, as you might think.) If you pay someone to train it, the training becomes a habitual type behavior, but the horse needs plenty of reward and work time to maintain these habits. If you want the type of 'come-when- you-whistle' horse you see in the movies, you have to live with the horse, instead of visiting him. By the same token, each horse has its own personality, and some of them are bad. These make good dog food, as an alternative. Lewis and Clark preferred the taste of dog.

Take my advice with a grain of salt...I can't stand the smell of horses......I just grew up around a couple of them.

Never try to teach a pig to sing...It wastes your time and annoys the pig. Just learn to sing with the pig.

-- Dan Conine (dan@invedyne.com), June 21, 2000.


Pat, my advice is still the same---learn how to handle the horse & be able to show him who is boss-- be able to teach him instead of him teach you! Or get one you can handle! An oldier horse who is able to put up with many different riders that are not experienced! You have not told us the purpose of the purchase of this horse--pleasure ridding or what? My brother has been a horse trader for over 45 years! (also has broke & trained horses). Wish you were closer, so he could find out your families knowledge of horses & your abilities, & your proposed uses for a horse, then be able to locate a horse for your families needs. Sounds like you have way tooooo much horse for your family. I'd still consider a trade--to an oldier horse your family is able to handle! Also, I would have your family read & learn (in what ever methods), all they can about horses, because you can still buy or trade for an oldier horse & if you still don't know how to handle it---the next horse can do the same thing! As you said, you had no problems with the horse when you first bought the horse! Too many people get the cart before the horse---in other words, buy a horse before the family knows how to care & use it for its best purposes! My brother has bought several horses for my sister's family---& there is ALWAYS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE HORSE --they just aren't horse people & each horse knows it! They have no control over any horse & then blame the horse! My sister, grew up the same as I did & had all the same chances--but she just isn't a horse person! What ever, you decide, there is NO QUICK FIX! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), June 21, 2000.

The first horse I sponsered as a teenager was a huge old gelding named red, He was 18 and had seen it all,and absolutly refused to listen to me. We took a few rides were he wanted to go,I was small and he was big and strong and he refused to listen to me. I ended up sponsering a 14 hand welsh/ quarter and she was great, she was much smaller so I didnt feel intimidated and we had many great times together. Sometimes the chemistry just isnt there [ kind of like dating]and alot of geldings need a firm hand when riding[alot of mares to].

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), June 22, 2000.

Horses are lazy creatures. The barn is where they get fed and have shade and warm in the winter. When your horse wants to stay there by the barn,makeit uncomfortable for him. Make him walk small circles, anything to keep him moving right there. Make him sweat, make it hard for himto stand still. Then try to ride him away. If he wants to come back there,let him. Don't fight him. But don't let him stand there. Go back to making him sweat. Make him work! When he does go away from the barn or gate let himrelax. Make going away fromthe barn a pleasant experience. Feeding him away from wherever he wants to be is an excellent idea. Make the barn an unpleasantplace to be. Get or rent some John Lyons tapes or books. Also Mary Twelveponies is a good down to earth trainer. Your confidence and patience will be a big help. right now he thinks he has you buffaloed. Maybe,but you have opposable thumbs. You can outthink him. Patience and persistence and a bill of sale will go alongway if you really need them.

-- carol ulen (fairweatherfarm@i2k.com), June 23, 2000.

Pat, I know exactly what you are talking about I recently Bought a 13 yr old Tennesse walker gelding. I have had him now for about a month and I have almost cured his barn sour problem. Like others have said the barn is a horses lazy spot so they want to return there quickly. With my gelding he didn't buck but Rared up. what I have done has help 90% of his problem. I started working him in his lazy spot even if I wasn't planning on ridding him that day. also when I returned back from my ride and we got to the barn I made sure that the work was not over for him. The saddle does not come off as soon as we get home and I make sure I ride him in his lazy spot as part of the cool down. Please feel free to e-mail me if you have anyother questions on what I did. I hope this advise helps. natalia

-- natalia Brubaker (natalia_21_44@yahoo.com), June 19, 2001.


Just a few more suggestions--NEVER, NEVER feed your horse within one hour of riding him. He will become barn sour this way. NEVER RUN, LOPE, TROT to barn or within 100 yards of getting to the barn. Also, when you are through riding, TIE HIM UP for at least an half hour, preferably an hour or more. Of course, if it is hot, pick a shady place and needless to say, pick something sturdy to tie him to. Tieing up after rides is a really good way to prevent barn sourness.

-- Shauna Rowan (shamelesscowgirl2001@yahoo.com), September 22, 2001.

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