I have just completed some tests on Kodak Fine Art variable contrast fibre paper. The results are very disappointing. The highlights are coming out gray (about zone 7) no matter what is attempted. Developer is Kodak Polymax-T, the enlarger is a Durst L138S and the darkroom is DARK. Tests were carried out with and without safelights on with identical poor results. I can load sheet film in the darkroom without fogging so there is no stray light. Paper stored in dry darkroom away from wet room. Temperatures tyically 20degC and not more than 25degC. A comparison with old Agfa paper showed no problems except with expected colour shift in Agfa paper base due to age. The Kodak paper came from freshly opened packs of 10x8 and 11x14, not long from the wholesalers. I have sent the test sheets to the wholesaler who is returning them to Kodak. The wholesaler has reported numerous problems with Fine Art keeping qualities but said that they have been advised of a new coating formula about to appear on Fine Art. 1. Has anyone had problems with Fine Art straight out of a fresh pack? 2. Has anyone had problems with rapid deterioration of Fine Art in opened packs (no frozen storage)?

-- Alastair Fordyce (afordyc@attglobal.net), July 05, 2000

Answers

I tried the Kodak Fine Art paper when it first came out and was also disappointed with the tones. After a few sheets of muddy looking prints, I went back to Ilford Multigrade FB.

-- Don Sparks (Harleyman7@aol.com), July 05, 2000.

Yes. I don't use Kodak Fine Art(Fogged Art) paper after my experience with the gray you described. This crap doesn't keep very long. I had Kodak send me their form #390006 "Stock Rotation Codes for Kodak B&W Paper". This form will help you determine expired paper based on the Stock Rotation Number on the box. I've been able to return paper back to Kodak directly, due to the problems I've had. Kodak has sent me replacement product. Call 800-242-2424 and ask for extention #19 in the Professional Imaging department. Also, make sure your source for paper knows the expiration codes; most stores aren't going to take the time to check their stock rotation. The solution to your problem is simple: use the Kodak paper for placemats and buy Ilford, Oriental, or Bergger paper from now on.

-- Tom Rand (TR.PUR@SCHOSP.ORG), July 05, 2000.

I tried Polymax Fine Art for the first time a few months ago. The 25 sheet 8x10 package was part of a B&H shipment I received in January, and I kept the paper refrigerated (not frozen) from then until first using it in May. Interestingly, the package I received had an actual expiration date on its label: 9/00. I was extremely pleased with the prints; this paper is a superb match for T-Max negatives, and the whites were brilliant. Although I toned some samples in Selenium, color and maximum black density are very pleasing right out of the fixer. I may just skip toning future work and send washed prints for a Sistan swim instead.

Concerned about Kodak's instructions not to leave Polymax Fine Art in water too long - - which would supposedly diminish the brightener's effect - - I made two identical prints, washing one for an hour and keeping the second immersed for twenty four hours. After drying, a side-by-side comparison under several types of light revealed virtually no difference. While there will always be some negatives that better match the unique characteristics of other papers, I now intend for the most part to standardize on Polymax Fine Art. Whatever problems others have experienced seem to have been overcome in current production samples.

-- Sal Santamaura (bc_hill@qwestinternet.net), July 05, 2000.

There is a way to get the tones you want. Use some Benzotriazole in your developer. This will help to brighten your highlights. Also, this paper has a large dry down. What looks good wet will DEFINITELY look dark when dry. Take a good 30% off your printing time (take it off the time of the print that looks good wet) and you should be alot more in the ballpark when dry. Cheers, Scott

-- Scott Walton (scotlynn@shore.net), July 05, 2000.

I dunno, maybe I got some of that "new coating formula." There was very little if any drydown effect in my prints.

-- Sal Santamaura (bc_hill@qwestinternet.net), July 05, 2000.

I experienced the same fogging and dry-down problems when I tried fine-art. Since I print on no regular schedule with no huge blocks of time to spend printing I really couldn't use the paper fast enough I guess. Sal makes me think I should try again. It's one of those polypapers that my local store does carry and would be nice to have in a pinchy paperless deadline. I do agree with the other posters in that if you can't get "it" and consistently then you should find a stock that will work better. Me? I'm still testing.

-- Trib (linhof6@hotmail.com), July 05, 2000.

I have not seen the problems of fogging and muddiness when I have used Kodak Polymax Fine Arts FB. Quite to the contrary, I have been very satisfied with it and consider this one of my two preferred papers.

-- Sam (sselkind@home.com), July 05, 2000.

I have used Polymax Fine Art for about 2 years in the F 8x10 and N 11x14 surface and have just started working with the C surface 11x14. I have not encountered any of the problems mentioned. I get brilliant whites solid blacks & no drydown with the F surface, slight drydown with the N surface.I haven't used C surface much but the initial results are good.I am using an Omega B8 XL condenser enlarger with an el nikkor 50mm f2.8. Above the lens gelatin filters.Developed in Dektol or Edwal Platinum. The Platinum gives the best results with all surfaces.Film is usually Delta 400 developed in XTOL, ei 320 & 20% developer pull. I store the paper in my basement darkroom that has a temperature range of 60 to 70 deg F with no problems. I buy my paper from B&H in NYC via maill order.

-- Robert Orofino (rorofino@iopener.net), July 05, 2000.

Alastair, are you sure there is no stray light from the enlarger itself? It happened with the smaller Durst that I use, but it took me a while to figure out what the problem was. There are two sources of light leakage that I have discovered: the lens board mount and the hole where a condenserlamp contact can be inserted.

I have not had the problems you described with my Polymax fine art.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), July 06, 2000.

Just confirming for Peter Olsson that there were two tests carried out. 1. Test for minimum time, maximum black with no safelight, processed as recommended by Kodak instructions. 2. Sample of paper removed from packet with absolutely no light source present, and processed as recommended by Kodak instructions.

Please note, I have no problems at all with Kodak Polymax II RC paper or Agfa fibre paper with safelights on.

Similar issues have been found by a Master photographer/ printer whose opinions I value.

-- Alastair Fordyce (afordyc@attglobal.net), July 06, 2000.

Well, I certainly hope that you get all of your money back + expenses. The paper shouldn't behave like that. I did forget to mention that a photo-dealer said this paper is degrading after 6 months if not kept in a freezer. He was referring to complaints from his customers. Another thing about this paper, it seems that it needs some extra time in the developer for the blacks to come to their right. But your problem was with the whites, so that doesn't help.

-- Peter Olsson (peter.olsson@lulebo.se), July 06, 2000.

I've been using FineArt for about 8 months and have not experienced these problems. I've been very happy with it's tones. I buy 100 sheet boxes and it usually takes me a couple months to finish one off. I usually store the paper in a closet that does see some heat fluxuations over the course of its storage.

Might be interesting to kill all lights, pull a sheet straight from the envelope into the developer, (skipping any kind of exposure), and then cover the trays with a mat board as you process and see how that compares. If the problem is the paper, simply processing the paper should show the problem.

-- Rick Simpson (rsimpson@adobe.com), July 06, 2000.

I find Polymax Fine Art FB to be exquisite paper. I've never had a problem with it except it runs out to fast. Maybe you have a "very" old box of paper thoughy I have some I've had for over year that still looks great. I use 8 different makes of paper and I find Polymax FA FB gives me the deepest blacks of all the papers I use including Agfa and the new Oriental Seagull. Or maybe your "master print maker" friend just wants you to use his favorite paper and this is just some more Kodak bashing which comes in many disquises. There are many very good papers out there on the market. Get one you like and use it. But don't diss something just because you don't like it. It's naughty. James

-- james (james_mickelson@hotmail.com), July 08, 2000.

I like the Fine Art paper, have never had a problem with it. One thing I like, is that I have noticed very little "dry Down" with it, unlike some of the other premiums papers. Like Sam, it is one of my favorite papers.

-- Bill (bshaden@rocketmail.com), July 11, 2000.

I have used Kodak Fine Art paper and have not been able to keep it over nine or ten months without it fogging. Whites come out as a silver grey when the fog sets in. At first it appears to be a contrast problem but if you have print borders, the fog jumps out pretty fast. I usually print borderless but was using an easel with borders when I first noticed the problem - The borders were grey. I like the paper but it just doesn't keep. I have had three partial 8x10 packs go bad in the last couple of years. I now buy in 25 sheet packs and use it quickly. There were a couple threads on the rec.photo.darkroom usenet group - check dejanews.

-- Mike Carr (b10down@mailcity.com), July 12, 2000.