I need help from you women out there! My sister had a complete hysterectomy in April and is concerned with taking estrogen. She is trying to find the most natural one out there but is afraid of the possible breast cancer threats of any prescription she would be taking. She has very low blood pressure and heart problems already so the black cohosh, etc. does NOT work well for her. We would appreciate any suggestions. She is getting desperate and I am running out of suggestions. Thanks in advance to all who respond!

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), July 10, 2000

Answers

Pat I use a product called Estroven that I buy from my local Walmart. It's all natural. I still have all my parts and have not gone thru menopause yet but I use Estroven, St Johns Wort, and Black Cohosh along with a lot of other vitamins and minerals. My problem was pms but don't have that now that I've been taking this combination. Here is the website for Estroven if you'd like to investigate it. www.estroven.com/

-- Judi (sheepspin@aol.com), July 10, 2000.

Not quite there yet, but wild yam cream has some natural estrogen, and I understand that it as well as soy products work very well. This was from my Med Terms instructor, who was "enjoying" menopause through the quarter (and on and on, I would imagine). Best of luck...I would imagine there must be tons of stuff on the web? Maybe search under estrogen and menopause? If you find more, please post as I am sure there are lots of us who would be grateful for info. Thank you.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), July 10, 2000.

My wife (and I ...) are enjoying menopause right now. I'll check with her and see what she's taking. We are about 90% homeopathic and most of what she is taking does help.

We've been through the breast cancer thing (needle biopsy - YEECH) so we're aware of those wonderful 'chemical' fixes that everyone wants to prescribe...

j

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), July 10, 2000.

Hi - I'm Pat's sister (Carol) who had the complete hysterectomy in April - THANKS SIS! The reason I am having problems with some of the natural estrogens is because plants such as Black Cohosh, St. John's Wart, etc. have an adverse reaction on my blood pressure (dropping it dangerously LOW) and heart (I have Mitral Valve Prolapse and increases the palpatations). It seems that SOY might be a safe natural - - but can I get that in pill or capsule form? I have a lactose intolerance problem - will the SOY disagree with me??

I SURE APPRECIATE everyone's help

-- Carol (cfourman@hotmail.com), July 10, 2000.

Hi - I'm Pat's sister (Carol) who had the complete hysterectomy in April - THANKS SIS! The reason I am having problems with some of the natural estrogens is because plants such as Black Cohosh, St. John's Wart, etc. have an adverse reaction on my blood pressure (dropping it dangerously LOW) and heart (I have Mitral Valve Prolapse and increases the palpatations). It seems that SOY might be a safe natural - - but can I get that in pill or capsule form? I have a lactose intolerance problem - will the SOY disagree with me??

I SURE APPRECIATE everyone's help. THANKS A BUNCH!!!!

-- Carol (cfourman@hotmail.com), July 10, 2000.

If the problem is hot flashes, this is what it says in Prevention Magazine's Practical Encyclopedia of Natural Healing:

...hot flashes can be greatly helped by supplemental vitamin E. In the course of putting her book together, Mr. Reitz (author of Menapause: A Positive Approach) talked to hundreds of women about menopause. "Many women," she writes, "have found relief in two days from taking 800 I.U. of vitamin E complex, also known as mixed tocopherols. I have seen flashes disappear completely when the vitamin E is also accompanied by 2,000 to 3,000 milligrams of vitamin C (taken at intervals throughout the day) and with 1,000 milligrams (also at intervals) of calcium. When the flashes have subsided, usually after a week, the women reduce the vitamin E intake to 400 I.U."

-- Ken Scharabok (scharabo@aol.com), July 10, 2000.

Hey Carol, I think you can go to a nutrition type store (I don't know, do they still have Pilgrims? Fred Meyer out here in the West has a "health food" department, etc)....anyway, those places probably have the soy products...maybe the yam creams as well. I think soy is easier to ingest/digest and doesn't have much to do with lactose intolerance, but I don't follow health food...just try to make sure any food I eat is healthy. I think you can do soy milkshakes, which are supposed to be tasty. Best to you!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), July 11, 2000.

Two words ~ Dong Quai. 530 mg. 100 capsuls/$6.56. One in the morning, one at night.

My dog is even on it. She went the way of many older spade dogs; the spay scar moves down and puts pressure on the bladder. When she would stand up after laying down for a while, she'd leave a puddle. The vet said Estrogen. I said not even for my worst enemy!! The puddling stopped in 4 days. That was about 3 years ago. She's doing great!

http://www.vitaminworld.com

There's probably one near you, or you can mail order. Find out on their site.

-- Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

Why my daughter asked me what she could do about her awful pms mood swings, I suggested she take Dong Quai. My son-in-law has thanked me many times!!

-- Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

You can get soy in powder pills just about any form you want. I found my kids wont touch soymilk so I drink chocolate soy milk about 4 or 5 times a week, I like it much better then regular choco milk but it took awhile to develope a taste for it. start slow so it dosnt constipate you.

-- kathy h (saddlebronc@msn.com), July 11, 2000.

All the brands of soymilk taste different. Some good, some BAD. My family loves Soydream vanilla. You can also eat tofu, canned soybeans, frozen Edamame soybeans (in the pod still), tofu dogs (again several brands and some yucky - we like Smartdogs.) Soy is great with awesome health benefits. We eat some every day.

-- Helen (bluechicken@wildbearnet.net), July 11, 2000.

My wife goes to a doctor (MD) who uses herbs as well as meds and she has compound mixed up that contains Black Cohosh, Evening Primrose and soy plus some wild Yam. I've seen everything mentioned above but the Evening Primrose and Wild Yam. So, you might add those to the mix.

-- Jim Roberts (jroberts1@cas.org), July 11, 2000.

Here is my 2" worth - won't say that it replaces estrogen, just might consider it as a food supplement - raw glandulars. They can be found at health food stores, there are raw pituitary, adrenal, thyroid, liver, eye, brain and a host of others including those for women - mammary, ovary. You can also get combination forms. I have been taking pituitary, adrenal and thyroid for a few months now and feel they have helped a lot in overall energy and health. You might want to look at http://www.WestonAPrice.org which is a website that discusses nutrition in agreement with the Sally Fallon book "Nourishing Traditions". They list glandulars as a superfood - http://www.WestonAPrice.org/guide.html

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

Here is my 1 1/2 cents worth girls. (inflation you know)I visited a naturopath and a herbalist on this very question and they both told me the same thing. IF there is a history of breast cancer, any product that provides a "form of estrogen", even if natural/herbal, etc. should be taken with caution. If there is no history of breast cancer, then you should be safe unless you have other health problems, of course.

-- Marci (ajourend@libby.org), July 11, 2000.

My mother has a history of breast cancer. She's had it 2x, the first when she was 28 yrs, old. So she CANNOT take estrogen. She has been going through menopause for a few years now and has had great success with the combination of vitamins C& E mentioned earlier. She also drinks some soy everyday. She swears by the brand "Silk". It must be popular as she really has to keep on top of it to keep a steady supply on hand. It just flies out of the store. My Mom is quite a survivor. She had reconstruction with the last mastectomy and it's been 12 years now with no more problems. I worry some about the implants but she is happy with them. Well I'm rambling. I hope you find something that helps!

-- Denise (jphammock@msn.com), July 11, 2000.

Hi,

I cornered (just a figure of speech, mind you...) my wife last night and here's what she takes/uses:

"Restored Balance" PMS/Menopausal Natural Progesterone Cream by Restored Balance, Carterville Ga 1800.865.7499

"Remifemin" Tables by Enzymatic Therapy 1800.783.2286

Vitamin E 800 IU

Evening Primrose Oil 1300mg

Flax Seed Oil, cold-pressed & organic 1 tablespoon

And for reference - Prescription for Natural Health, Balch & Balch ISBN 0895297272 It is our standard health reference

The phone numbers listed are just for reference. You should be able to find these products in a good health/natural food store. Also, see if there is a compounding pharmacy in your area. They will _make_ products for you and are usually very knowledgeable about all sorts of health issues.

Good luck. I'm also printing everyone else's suggestions for my wife and I to study and see if they will help us. She's maybe the one living 'in' this condition but I'm the one living 'with' it !

J

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

MANY THANKS to ALL OF YOU who have been considerate enough to reply back - I AM GRATEFUL!

I've tried the Dong Quai and it too lowered my blood pressure too drastically (as did the Black Cohosh) - my reading was 76/50 (YIKES)!

My main concern for NOT choosing to go on the Premarin (as my doctor prescribed) is because my sister Pat & I are victims of DES (a hormone that was given to our mother during her pregnancy with both of us)and consequently we are HIGH RISK with CANCER! We have been told ALL OUR LIVES to NEVER take estrogen! But now that I have been forced into surgical menopause - those same doctors want me to take Premarin! I feel the "natural" route is safer!

I have been experiencing Hot Flashes (BIG TIME), insomnia, and INCREASED Heart Palpatations (which I already had due to Mitral Valve Prolapse). The Hear Palpatations were more controled on the Black Cohosh and Dong Quai - - BUT - - caused the blood pressure problem.

I think for now I will try the SOY and Wild Yam methods and see how I respond to those. In the meantime - I will watch for more suggestions from those of you who have been through this. I SO MUCH APPRECIATE your feedback and THANK YOU ALL!!! GOD BLESS!!! - - Carol

-- Carol (cfourman@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.

Why don't you consult an herbalist or homeopath? It seems like this is something that would warrant the expense. In light of your many health complications, it seems that this would be the safest/most effective route. Also, acupuncture or acupressure might provide some relief from symptoms.

-- Betsy (sassyweitzel@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

Carol - regardeing lactose intolerance and Soy. There is no lactose (milk sugar) in soy products. Soy is plant based and lactose is strictly an animal product. Should have no problem there.

-- Deborah (ActuaryMom@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.

Don't replace the estrogen....progestrogen is what you need. There is a cream called "progesta-care" that my mom has been using for hot flashes, and one of my sisters who has had more female surgeries than I can rmember...ovary removed, other ovary, radical hysterectomy, crazy endometriosis with self forming tumors, and on and on, she started using the cream as well and says it helps quite a bit. Here's the number 888 999 7440.

-- Doreen (livinginskin@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

I have terrible PMS and use evening primrose oil for the two weeks prior to my flow. It's made such a difference in my life that my husband assures me I will never be without it. I also use the Vitamin E as it is wonderful to help keep breast tissue healthy. I too have grave concerns about breast cancer. My paternal grandmother had it, my maternal grandFATHER had it (which increases my chances about 10 fold)and 3 of my maternal cousins have had it. I have fibrous cysts, a precancerous condition, that make mammograms lots of fun. I've found that they get a better picture and I don't suffer as much if I have that procedure right after the flow. I also avoid caffeine in any form as it makes the FC's much worse.

On the vegetable sources of estrogens, try dry roast soy nuts. They are similar to peanuts, are a good snack out of hand and can be used as nuts in other foods. I sort and soak a type of bean grown for tofu, cook an hour or so to slightly tenderize. Drain the beans and spread them on a lightly oiled baking sheet. Roast at 300o until lightly browned and crunchy. Stir as necessary to all all to dry and roast. Spray lightly with olive oil so seasonings will stick, season, cool and enjoy. I like plain or garlic salt best but a little chili powder or taco seasoning is good too.

-- marilyn (rainbow@ktis.net), July 11, 2000.

Enzymatic gladular-Overy-uterus complex works wonders for me (black cohosh too). Soy is excellent, cut out the sugar and caffeine. Relax, take time for yourself. Take a relaxing bath in chamomile, or go for a walk, might not stop the hot flashes, but makes you feel better.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), July 11, 2000.

-- 2,000 to 3,000 milligrams of vitamin C (taken at intervals throughout the day) --

Jeez, you must have a cast iron system! Using 250mg tablets, I've tried to slowly raise the vitamin C up, but if I go past 500mg/day, I get a terrible case of the runs. But then, 2 oranges will do the same to me. Fruit doesn't like me, so I rarely eat it!

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), July 12, 2000.

http://www.vitamins.com/store/categories/228.html

This has the supplements and you can also ask their professionals! Hope it helps! God bless!

-- his hands and feet (help4U@right.here), July 13, 2000.

Hi Carol.

Some of my old books recommend Hollyhock flowers as a good source of balanced hormones, even calling them the farmwife's best friend. I think hibiscus would also have plenty of hormones, also. Probably most flowers do. They are also quite yummy and easy to grow. I also enjoy eating violets.

Some of my friends chose to go hormone free after their complete hysterectomies. While some admitted it was hell for a few months, they are comfortable with their choices to not be dependent on outside hormones, and seem to be doing quite well even twenty years later. I guess it is all personal choice and tolerance level for discomfort. Others gotta have the premarin.

As for me, I sneak soybeans into everything, eat hollyhocks when I can find them. I tamed the raging hot furnace down to a warm glow that allows me to go anywhere without a jacket.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), July 14, 2000.

Get thee to a homeopath!

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), July 14, 2000.

After a total hyst 3 years ago and my dad passing away I decided 6 months ago to give in and take the "natural" estrogen. Severe side effects and 2 natural estrogens later I tried the Premarin. My Gyne started me on the highest dose and what a nightmare for me! Migraines 24x7, bloating, gas, breast tenderness, facial nightmare with pimples (at 41!), etc. Gyne had me reduce the amount until I was on the smallest dose. Same side effects. I stopped it altogether and now I have hypothyroidism I am dealing with! The doctor says they are no way related but I know they have to be. You can't "overdose" on estrogen and think it doesn't do some damage. The thyroid is a small fine tuned organ that effects your entire immuno system. Thankfully my thyroid looks fine in ultrasound but the parathyroid is large. That might be normal for me but it is causing hypothyroidism. I will keep you posted.

Wild Oats Market is the greatest if you have one in your area for information. I now take Nature's Way Garlicin, Vitamin C and Vitamin E for hot flashes, tumors and as a cleanser. They work wonderful together!

Good Luck.

-- Debbie Lamb (debylamb@hotmail.com), March 01, 2001.

I saw that Remifemin advertised on tv..suppose to be natural..might look into that...think I will also..getting near that time to seriously start looking for alternatives.

-- Lynn(MO) (mscratch1@semo.net), March 01, 2001.

She could try increasing soy intake in her diet--make sure it is organic. Try soy milk, tofu. She can try dong quai and Vitex agnus castus. I don't know what kinds of heart problems she has, but Hawthorne and Motherwort are both heart tonics. Motherwort has good sedative properties. Cold Sage tea is good for hot flashes. Whatever she does, make sure she reads up on these recommendations and realizes it takes time to change health with herbs and diet. These are not magic bullet "cures." This info shouldn't be a substitute for medical diagnosis and treatment!

Also, have her get Susun Weed's book "Menopause the Wise Woman Way." You can find it on Amazon.com. This is *the* best book on menopause in my opinion. Susun gives wonderful advice and describes holistic ways to go through the change, whether it is surgically induced or natural menopause. Susun is a Wise Woman healer--the old way with simples. She is a brilliant herbalist.

-- amy (acook@in4web.com), March 02, 2001.

I need to know if taking a 'natural' product for menapause is ok because I take Lipitor daily.

-- Mardel Rick (arick@chibardin.net), September 06, 2001.

Thanks for all the great info;i thought i was going nuts- my headaches and hot flashes...really we have to laugh now some... what us humans suffer eh? I feel so much better. and i'm going to try the cream, definately cutting out the caffeine and suger, that part i'll miss but this state- yikes! if thats all we have to do eh?I take tofu in yogurt loads of yams but then i stop taking them for a while and it all comes back vit c and e and all those flowers, staying away from st john and black cohush for now. Yeah we really have to stop and take a check of ourselves and become aware of our selves every now and then, and thats not always easy to do. But I love it when i get to this point, a deliberate slow down- gee am i really drinking chamomile tea now-isnt that great! oh yeah brown rice no white stuff.

-- Jacqueline Howett (jacquelinehowet@yahoo.com), February 06, 2002.

I had a complete hysterectomy when I was 26, that was 15 years ago. I've tried all the HRT out there. Your fat cells continue to make a low dose estrogen, so if you are a little on the heavy side that could be to your advantage, as long as it doesn't effect your blood pressure. This will keep you from having to take a high dose of estrogen. You also lost progesterone. You need to supplementment this with a natural cream (a small dose). Also you lost your testosterone. You can get a natural cream of testosterone and you only need to use a small amount. It is by prescription and you'll need to find a pharmacy that will compound. This is what I'm doing. I've gotten my muscle tone back. My energy is soaring like it did in my 20's. I'm sleeping like a baby and haven't had a hot flash in years. Your doctor can prescribe the progesterone and testerone for you. They are bio-identical to your bodies and made from plants, they are "natural". The estogen I take is ESTRACE 1mg. It is a pill that is also made from plants. There is no way you can take enough herbs to replace what you have lost. Prescription is the way to go, especially since you can get it natural now. I stopped taking hormones for 2 years and went with the herbs. I now have osteopenia. Since I've added the progesterone and testosterone creams most of the bone loss has been restored. Make sure you get a full dexascan to check your bones. Good luck in your search to feel normal again. After 15 years I've finally found what works for me.

-- Pebble (pebjo@aol.com), March 02, 2002.