Hot Buttons 2...a faster download...11:00 PM PST : LUSENET : Sound Bytes : One Thread

This should help the download. The first Hot Buttons thread remains as a permanent archive.

-- (Benevolent, July 14, 2000


Lisa - you're welcome. Are we getting to be the only ones who come around here ? I actually prefer this place to VIP.

-- jac (, July 27, 2000.

i come and check about every day, just generally don't bother to post...

-- nicole (nicole@you.know), July 27, 2000.

Jac, we are two of the few.... I actually went into VIP last night and actually caught people in there.... It wasnt so bad, once we figured out how to keep the posts from turning gray.... you have to keep typing in the font color before each post.... I started c and p ing yellow...... otherwise, its a typical chat pro type program....

-- Lisa (, July 27, 2000.

I like this place better than VIP, too, but there's never anybody here.

-- GRC (, July 27, 2000.

We are here and we are somebody.... :o)

-- Lisa (, July 27, 2000.

OK, be all you can be....

Here's an exemplar of the utter ridiculousness of the notion that Shrub can be a decent President:

"Newsweek reports today that W. was always 'somewhat oblivious to the political power of his family ties.' Running for Congress in 1978, he went to a Republican candidates' school. 'David Dreier, now a Republican congressman from California,' Newsweek says, 'recalls young Bush excitedly telling him, "I've got the greatest idea of how to raise money for the campaign. Have your mother send a letter to your family's Christmas card list. I just did and I got $350,000!"'"

Wow! Who'd'a thunkit!?!

-- GRC (, July 30, 2000.

Second generation Bush "Born with a silver foot in his mouth"!! Anne Richards, where are you when we need you???

-- Lisa (, July 31, 2000.

Oh, well; I just enjoy posting these, even if I am talking to myself. (High level of conversation, at least.)

The whole story is quite a bit longer than this excerpt. It points out that it would have cost the equivalent of several thousands of dollars in today's money to ship bodies back home for burial, that the families didn't have it, and that the Territory/State of Alaska didn't, either (although it had the money to get the living people there to begin with, of course). Life in these United States....


By Liz Ruskin Daily News Reporter

(Published July 30, 2000)

Sitka -- It was a small paragraph, hardly a mention, hidden in a 1998 environmental assessment the state commissioned for the expansion of the Sitka airport.

There are two World War II-era ammunition bunkers near the runway, the report said. The bunkers contain human bodies.

'It was such a shock to my system,' said Diane DeRoux, the Department of Transportation official charged with clearing land titles for the airport project.

She soon learned that the bodies were of patients from all over Alaska who died between 1947 and 1966 at nearby Mt. Edgecumbe Hospital. The hospital served as a tuberculosis sanitarium for Alaska Natives. Amid the territory's raging TB epidemic, administrators of the federally run hospital decided to use the bunkers as tombs. The concrete vaults, partially hidden by a thicket of grass and salmonberry bushes, sat undisturbed since a set of doors was welded shut in the 1970s.

Once they adjusted to the information, DeRoux and other transportation officials pledged to find out who these people were and consult their next of kin.

She got a list of the dead at the hospital. There were 133 names, handwritten, on notebook paper. Each entry had a three-digit crypt number and the date of entombment. That was it. No ages. No hometowns. No names of family members.

She knew she needed help.


Unlike other deadly plagues that racked Alaska, TB churned slowly and relentlessly, starting at least with the arrival of the Russian explorers in mid-1700s.

The disease known as 'consumption' struck white Alaskans, too, but it was particularly hard on Natives. In the first half of the 20th century, it was by far the biggest health threat facing Alaska's indigenous people.

'It was a disease that Native people lived with every day in that era and saw their families broken up and their children killed,' said Dr. Robert Fortuine, a medical historian from Wasilla who wrote about TB in his book 'Chills and Fever: Health and Disease in the Early History of Alaska.'

In the 1920s and '30s, about one of every three Native deaths was caused by TB and the TB rate among Natives was 12 times that of Alaska whites.

'We found figures in Alaska that are hard for medical men to believe,' said a medical investigator who came to the territory in the late 1940s.

In 1950, nearly 90 percent of 10-year-olds in Northern, Western and Interior Alaska were infected.

The territorial government mounted a campaign at the end of World War II to identify new cases and halt the spread of the disease."

-- GRC (, July 31, 2000.

GRC, TB is one of those diseases with "ethnic preferences". White folks can catch it and linger on with it for years. Among many North Asian origin groups, death can come quite quickly. American Indians, Japanese, Chinese, Manchurians, Mongolians, Tibetans, etc., all have a particularly rough time with it.

That 90% infection rate you noted above is pretty consistent with Old World (European and African, but not Asian) disease infection rates among American Indians back in the 1840s on the US East Coast.

The young, of course, are more readily infected, but the rates among adults are pretty high.

Only modern medicine broke the back of the TB plague among the Alaskan native populations. Notice that 1/12 infection rate for Alaskan whites. Has nothing to do with better medicine, since there was none at that time. It has everything to do with heredity.

-- Billybob 9 (, August 02, 2000.

That's true, BB9.

Has nothing to do with the point of the post, of course.

But it is true.

-- GRC (, August 03, 2000.

val kilmer made the best of "consumption" in his portrayal of doc holiday...."i'm yer huckleberry".... on a serious brother supposedly brought that shit back from germany 3 yrs ago....since he was in contact with all of us upon his arrival, we all had to be tested for TB...they tried to tell him the only way he could've caught that certain infection, was thru playin' with corpses....i'm not hackin' up any lungs....niether is he.......if i ever catch him beatin' a dead horse,.....

nevermind...he can kick my ass about now...

-- LunaticFringe (, August 03, 2000.

my brother and the US contingent also called the german people "herms"...i asked why...he had no answer....(i do know why, tho)...

-- LunaticFringe (, August 03, 2000.

LF, I received your email today. It's hard to tell, but it would seem to be some sort of insult I confess to not understanding.

-- (Benevolent, August 03, 2000.

BD, that's our LF, even when he is being nice, he manages to sound insulting.... :oD

-- Lisa (, August 04, 2000.

i haven't sent you any e-mails, musta been someone impersonatin' you have the address?...

-- LunaticFringe (, August 04, 2000.

My apologies, LF. I rechecked, and the email sender was BG ( who sent a vague insult in a style very similar to yours.

-- (Benevolent, August 05, 2000.

OK, biggie....

-- LunaticFringe (, August 05, 2000.

What insult? Send it back to me please!

-- BG (, August 08, 2000.

Now I've really screwed up. I got two email addresses crossed up. This email came from on 8/03, with a return path that replies back to you, LF:

i have been on the net for 5 years...i'm not goin' to wait another 28 "to see if the internet catches on" to post in yer hall...think of that what you like...

As you said, no biggie. I have pretty thick skin. Just not sure what to make of it, or what was meant.

Please accept my apology, BG.

-- (Benevolent Dictator@needs more.sleep), August 09, 2000.

OK, BD...fair enuff...but i must tell you that i do *not* have that e-mail on my "sent" addys...(28 years??...huh?)...i will contact my server to see how that came from my address...and yes, that IS my address... i also apologize to BG for himself gettin' confused with my e-mail...(altho i don't know how that happened from yer end)....i've been on the net since july in 1996...i didn't get to DB until 1997...i DO know a few people in town that have the same ISP as i do and have told them where i post....this is shit...i am pissed...accept my apologies from me, becuz i am certain i've shown too many, too much...and dammit, if they can post as me, that means they are interceptin' my e-mails i've been waitin' for... BTW, i'm sure i can talk for BG and definetly for myself....we'd appreciate the fact, if you could delete our e-mail addy's from the board....

-- LunaticFringe (, August 09, 2000.

i feel i have to explain myself, somewhat...ummm...if i was at yer house and on yer PC, BD....all i'd have to do is type my user name and password, + the ISP home number in....i could get my e-mail at yer house....not a prob...i have shown this to "friends" with the same ISP...(28 yrs. does not ring a bell, tho)...i am done runnin' my mouth off on tricks and plays over the internet.. again, i apologize...

-- LunaticFringe (, August 09, 2000.

and personally, BD....i'd appreciate if you'd respond to me in e-mail, if ya get an e-mail from me.....just say in here that ya sent....i'm sure we could eliminate alot of apologies that way...even if i did send it...(i'm thinkin' of 8 people i'd like to hurt about now and don't know which one to hold accountable)......which is why i asked for the return addy to begin with...

-- LunaticFringe (, August 09, 2000.

'Mornin, LF. I do understand why you'd be pissed that someone "spoofed" your IP. I'll send you an email reply with the headers for you to forward to your ISP.

You may notice that BG posts his own email address as part of his signature, so I didn't reveal anything confidential. On yours, I just told you who the provider was...didn't post your email address...but, I have edited it now anyway.

I should have replied to you by email to begin with. The reason I didn't is that I've sent you a couple of emails in the past that have gone unresponded to.

Thanks for your answer. Although it was far from being offensive, I'm still glad to know the email wasn't really from you.

-- (Benevolent Dictator@home.still), August 09, 2000.

It sure sounded like him though... so its probably someone who knows him well.... how weird.......

-- Lisa (, August 10, 2000.

curiouser and curiouser... lot of weird things going on in our little community lately.

-- Absalon (, August 12, 2000.

you can say that again abs!

-- nicole (, August 12, 2000.

i have taken care of things with my ISP...and with BD...i assure this will not happen again...

-- LunaticFringe (, August 13, 2000.

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