We are in the process of building our house-still. The kitchen isn't done and I could incorporate lots of good ideas into it. We grow and process most of our own food, including meat. I've read the Robinson's book and another one from the library but I'd still like tried and true ideas from the good folks here. What do you REALLY like about your kitchens? Or what do you really dislike? The only great thing I've done so far is put the washer and dryer in a corner of the kitchen. And the dryer is on a 16" platform (I built myself) so I don't have to bend over to take the clothes out. The space underneath is for storage. So what works for you?

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), July 26, 2000

Answers

we converted our front guest closet into a small pantry. If I could do it over again I would put in a large walk in pantry and wouldn't even try those lazy susans.

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), July 26, 2000.

If you're on the grid, put an electrical outlet on every stud in the wall. Can't have enough of 'em. We turned a small room off of the kitchen into a walk-in pantry. Best idea we ever had. I have all my stores of food in there, plus all the pots and pans. We have to move soon due to jobs, but I'm taking the pantry with me.

-- Julie (rjbk@together.net), July 26, 2000.

Our kitchen is in the works , but here goes 1] stainless steel stove 6 burner 2]counter with bar stools for snacks 3]large pantry , enough room for the freezer 4]mud room /laundry room 5]breakfast nook 6]center island with sink 7]wood cook stove 8]lots of windows 9]doors to herb garden

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), July 26, 2000.

ooooh,I'm so glad you asked because I do NOW...the contractors will be back tomorrow to finish up and I am so excited..now before all of you accomplished do-it-yourselfers get too righteous,those of you who already know us are aware that husband Neil is disabled and I have been in Nursing/Medicine for eons....I only know that as far as construction, my hands are not connected to my brain....our home is a two room log cabin which was moved to this site and then had several rooms added on..someone in their exuberance divided the kitchen and the dining room with a Dairy Queen-like see through counter...Now the wall is gone,the cupboards have been changed around so I have great space for my bread making and canning..the refrigerator now lives in the pantry..and my very old Hoosier cupboard lives in the kitchen...this leaves four counter tops,a double sink,my wood stove,the electric stove for Summer,a microwave hidden in the cupboard by a double mesh door (makes it look like a potato bin thing).There is an eight by six pantry as well as a smaller room for laundry..all adjacent to the kitchen.One of the neatest things is a combination ironing board/footstool/highchair/seat thing...when not in active use, it just sits there next to the woodstove looking quaint..when I need to iron, I just rotate two bolts and fold it down for the chair back to become an ironing board...I LOVE this thing....thanks for letting me share about the kitchen of my dreams..now we are going to build a farm table which will extend into both rooms..happy happy, joy joy..God Bless...

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), July 26, 2000.

Consider ditching the dryer and hanging out instead. I have lots of cupboard space, and really don't need it, since I don't use all that I have in there! I am working on that.

I like the piece of marble I have sitting on top of the counter, over the regular formica covering. I prefer a gas stove for the control of the burners and the efficiency.

We haven't given away the microwave, but its in the basement, if that tells you how often we use it. In fact, we took out the dishwasher and now have a vacancy where we put the cat food/water out of our feet-way. I would like to rig a better composting system, two buckets for compost and chicken feed scraps. I have seen the ones that have counter lids and have buckets under. Maybe we'll try that. That is in my future kitchen plans.

Plain wooden cupboards of good quality last forever and don't get boring. A good window over the sink for the breeze and the view. An energy efficient and easy to clean refrigerator, I prefer the freezer on top.

Thats all I can think of for now. Good luck.

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), July 26, 2000.

might sound strange but i would love a floor made out stone or brick with a drain in the middle just get out a hose and wash it of the water would drain into my kitchen garden which would be filled with wonderful things and ofcourse a greenhouse . ok now for the real world i would any kitchen except mine it use to be a porch then divided in half you stand at the sink and you almost touch the other wall the frige wont even fit in there.I HATE IT!!!

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), July 26, 2000.

We just need lots of room for all the folk who gravitate to the kitchen whenever we have company!! I like lots of counter space, good lighting, and even though I would love the hard surface floor with a drain in it, my legs get tired when I am putting up food...therefore something soft to stand on...maybe a good rug? I also am a big fan of everything in its place...no wasting time looking for something. Having good ventilation, a homey atmosphere (our kitchen is red and our accessories are green!!) is really important...and a deeeeeep sink!!!

We put our laundry in the M. bedroom...that's where all the dirty clothes and stuff from the bathrooms accumulates....saves steps. We spend a lot of time in the kitchen so spending a lot of time planning makes a lot of sense!!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), July 27, 2000.

when my gram built a new kitchen she had one pull out drawer devoted to spices. in the drawer she had dividers installed that looked kind of like those things they have that hold up your cookbook so you can see it. that way she could read all of the labels and she didn't have to go digging around in a cupboard. she also had a pantry that had large pull out drawers so she never lost anything in the back. a small cupboard with small dividers to seperate her cookie sheets too. she said it came from 45 years spent in a real dingy kitchen. i'm sorry if this post is too long or doesn't make sense. i just realized how tired i was when i tried to formulate this thought. : ) going to bed now.

-- Amber (ambrosia75_@hotmail.com), July 27, 2000.

My dream kitchen will have a big window over the kitchen sink, so that washing dishes can be a more pleasant task. Maybe a view of a pond? I'd like a wood cutting board that slides into the counter (like a drawer) when not in use. I'd love to have a wall of shelves for cookware; Now I have to get down on my hands and knees and search if I need a muffin pan. I'd like cabinet doors with glass fronts, so I can see all the pretty dishes I've picked up at yard sales over the years. More room....for dogs, craft projects, plants....enough room to actually sit at the table and enjoy a meal.

-- Cathy Horn (hrnofplnty@webtv.net), July 27, 2000.

Having recently been doing some jam making and pickle making I would definitely be thinking about plenty of counter space particularly near the stove so you can have those canning jars lined up ready to be filled. It would also be nice if there was some area of counter without a cupboard above it so if you are trying to empty a big pot you aren't bumping up against the upper cupboard. Having vision problems I also appreciate plenty of lighting especially over the work areas up under the cupboards. If you don't have workspace lighting your back can sometimes block the ceiling light which is behind you. Good pantry space is also a must. I don't like deep cupboards where things get lost in the back so I would use up more wall space with flatter cupboards. For example, one thing I would like to have is a wall with a huge cupboard that is one or two can depth from the wall so I can just have a wall of cans that I can easily see what I have when I open the cupboard instead of having to fish around five rows back. I would also like to have some kind of inset in the counter next to the stove that you can put a hot pan onto without burning the surface. This is great for making mashed potatoes or adding other things to pots when you are cooking so you don't have to be working directly over the hot stove.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), July 27, 2000.

Bits and pieces: one from my father - make sure you can get at least your toes under the cupboards (recessed base or kick-rail), otherwise you end up bending over the cupboard rather than standing up to it, and it's hell on bad backs. My preference - have the cupboards well off the floor - say 15" or 18", so you reduce insect and rodent problems, and can sweep under them easily. Anyway, any low cupboard - preferably drawers, rather than shelves; and if shelves then a fair height to reduce bending and peering into low narrow spaces - bad back again. When I get to it myself, I'm going to put the bench-tops at an adequate height, and let everyone else stand on boxes or ladders if they have to (which they can keep under the cupboards:-). I may well think about having the sink raised more than the benchtops too, so you're working in the sink at benchtop level.

Came across warming cupboards in New Zealand - whatever hot-water system they have, they build a cupboard over it. It's just warm enough to reduce residual dampness in clothes fresh off the line during continual damp weather (which sums up New Zealand). It's a great place to do home-brew too.

Make lots of cutting boards from bench-top off-cuts.

Yes - power-points are cheap while you're putting in a kitchen, and replacing wall-boards with power-points up to the ceiling wouldn't be overkill.

Depends on how electric my kitchen goes, but I'll think about doing a benchtop with a roller-door (like a garage, or a roll-top desk) so that all those little electrical thingummyjigits can stay plugged in on the benchtop, waiting for me to roll up the door, rather than having to be continually taking something out of a cupboard, plugging it in, using it, unplugging it, putting it away, taking out the next one ....

I'm going to give a great deal of thought to putting in a solar cooker, dehydrator, etc (along with solar hot-water), and investigate solar grill/hotplate, in a gauzed outdoor area, for summer. May be able to avoid lighting the stove for much of summer, and that would be a GOOD thing. A wood stove makes a nice cosy kitchen in winter, but in summer ....

Yes - a walk-in pantry. Yes - window over sink (double sink, so you can rinse). Leave services easy to access (wiring, plumbing) - when you need to work on them, you don't want to find only a contortionist could access them, or that you need to start dismantling things to fix a leaking pipe.

Give a LOT of thought to work-flow in the kitchen.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 27, 2000.

Well, I thought so when I designed it...still a few things that I will change next time around.

We have a large extended family and often host the holiday get togethers (except Thanksgiving - so many come to it, we have to rent a hall!). We put in an L of cabinets, with a window over the sink, facing the driveway, hummingbird and finch feeders. Six feet of counter top between sink and stove gives plenty of room for canners and jars; three feet between stove and fridge allows extra room.

I'm less than 5 feet tall, so we built in an island (3' x 10') parallel and about 3 1/2 ' from the long side of the L - used vanity height cabinets...much more comfortable for the shrimp to work at. The island has an overhang on the dining area side, with bar stools tucked under - the guys like to sit on them when we're working up produce. The overhang, was made with extra boards under it so I could attach my Victorio strainer and apple peeler and other clamp type attachments to it. The island has outlets set into the sides of the cabinets at each end - good for dehydrator, etc... We also use it as the buffet for family dinners - plugging in an outlet strip at the far end for the crock pots.

Our dining table sits parallel to the island and will stretch out to ten feet, with the addition of some home-made leaves - the difficulty is finding a twelve foot tablecloth!! Usually we hae it at it's no-leaf size of 42" X 42".

I use an odd sized over-the-basement-stairwell closet in the guest room as a pantry. I have 12" wide shelves on one side for storage of staples we don't need many of, or that don't take up much room. The other side is shelves three feet deep, for canned goods and staples we do store a lot of. The ironing board and some folding chairs live in the flat space on the back wall, between the shelves.

Things I will do differently next time: The floor will not be vinyl. Gouges way too easily. I'm thinking maybe tile or wide planks. The counter tops, at least the main work surface will not be formica - again, I'm thinking tile. They darn sure won't be white!! (What WAS I thinking?!?) The room will be at least 20 x 20 if it includes a dining area. There will be an area for recyclables. I will have a trash can that pulls out of the cabinet, like I do now; but it will also have a cut out for a smaller, round garbage can for scraps/compostables. I'll have a bigger pantry. There will either be a closet or an enclosed entry before you get into the kitchen proper for coats, boots, etc... The stove will be at least 42" wide, maybe 48" - and I'd love a double oven. And while I'm dreaming - can I have a well with lots and lots of pure water!?!

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), July 27, 2000.

Two years ago I came across some used cabinets that looked like they might fit...I ripped the old ones out and made the new ones work. one thing i really like about my kitchen...I flipped the old over the stove cabinet fitted for a hood (my stove is so old and big a fan won't fit over it!). I use the empty space left by putting three baskets there. It is located right by the back door. One has bug spray, bee sting things, bandaids, all that first aid kind of stuff. One has camera stuff (so you can catch that priceless picture!) and the other has a hammer, wrench, couple of screw drivers...all those tools you seem to need a lot. The best part is that when we put the counter on it it provided a place to attach our victorio and apple slicer and grain mill. It is a great place for using those manual tools that seem to work better than the electric ones! The key is that our counter top is only plywood with formica on top. The formica looks like cherry. Not what I really wanted but what I could afford. I think it looks great and the best part is that it is functional. One other thing that I did that I really enjoy is on the wall over the stove I hung three rows of 6 inch pine shelving. On these shelves I have every grain and spice, noodle oatmeal (you get the picture) that I use every day stored in 1/2 gallon canning jars. It looks really neat and doesn't close in the space because I'm only using 6 inches! Most people ask "Do you really use all those?" and I always say YES! They don't even know what most of them are! Sorry the post is so long....Lesley has what sounds like the ultimate dream kitchen! I'm sooooo jealous!

-- Jennifer (KY) (acornfork@hotmail.com), July 27, 2000.

Hey, just what I ahve been thinking about, since we are thinking about building with all those old logs and Hubby asked me what I wanted in a kitchen. Renee, I have wondered about the same thing--a drain in the middle of the floor, so you can skeep and then spray it down. Won't happen in this kitchen, so I will settle for the wood flooring that we salvaged from an old home. Deep sinks are a must, and those faucets that go curve up high, so filling a deep pot is NO problem. My countertops need to be a bit taller than standard, because I am tall. A pantry big enough for the freezer--neat idea! Lots of counter space, and an island that is heavy enough, and has inset legs, so that the clamp for the grain grinder and Squeezo strainer will fit comfortably and firmly. The shelf underneath will be big enough to hold 5 gallon buckets for the storage of staples, since we buy lots of stuff in bulk. A place for a wood cookstove, as well as my electric one; some Amish friends sell the ideal cookstove. It is nice to look at, and heats water, and holds a fire all night, making a contribution to keeping the place warm in the winter, 24/7. Isn't it fun eating "dream scickles," as my Hubby calles them?

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), July 27, 2000.

I've been trying to think of what to add to all the excellent ideas already given. One thing I really want is windows on more than one wall, for cross ventilation. Another is a small greenhouse attached to the kitchen, so I can take care of starts and etc., as part of regular kitchen work. In the greenhouse wall I would build in a solar dehydrator, solar cooker, and solar water heater. Also would find a place for worm bins -- possibly the pantry. I would like to build a walk-in freezer, but it would have to be very efficient. We aren't using the two old freezers we have now, because they run the electricity bill up so high. I think my ideal kitchen needs to be at least twenty by twenty four, because we really only use the kitchen for living in, don't need a *living room*! And I want direct access to the vegetable and herb gardens, the laundry area, and outdoor clotheslines (preferably under cover, for when it rains). I do have a wood cook stove, and would also want direct access to the wood shed.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), July 27, 2000.

I second almost all of the above. Put in more electrical outlets than you think you will ever use. Also have the wiring put in for under-cabinet lighting, a garbage disposal and dishwasher even if you don't ever expect to put them in. Far cheaper and easier to do it now. On counter heights, consider resale. What is comfortable for you may not be for someone else. I'd trade off most of my under the counter cabinets for drawers if a pantry was available.

Make a day trip to a couple of the huge home supply places (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) for ideas. They probably also have books on kitchen design for more ideas.

-- Ken S. (scharabo@aol.com), July 27, 2000.

All I can say is "WOW"! What great ideas. I love the "hose-down" idea. I've long thought that bathrooms should be all tile/stone and hoseable,(if that's a word). I've got the big sink over-looking the pond so I guess I'm headed in the right direction. I prefer a single large sink to a double. My canners won't fit in one side of a double sink. Many, many, thanks. I'm printing this one!!

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), July 27, 2000.

colleen, as far as ligthing goes. gram also has lighting installed on the underside of her upper cabinets. that way you can light the area right where your working at. you can buy them at almost any hardware store.

-- Amber (ambrosia75_@hotmail.com), July 27, 2000.

My husband just put in pull out shelves in some of my lower cabinets so I don't have to so much bending to find things (I have a bad back too). they are the best thing we ever put in our kitchen and were not hard to do. He just got some drawer slides at Lowes and attached them to a nice piece of plywood which I stained and added a 4" lip on the front and back to keep things from falling out. They are wonderful! You can actually see what is in the back! I also second the need for a pantry. I have a 3x6' pantry in my kitchen with a 4' door on the front and also a 8x10 foot pantry in the basement where I keep my home-canned foods and other supplies and yes I keep them both full! I would love to have a wood cook stove in my kitchen but don't have room for it!

-- b.Williams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), July 28, 2000.

What terrific ideas!!! I'm printing this out for when we get around to our dream kitchen - sometime in the next 15 years, I hope. We are not hooked up for gas, but I've always wanted a gas stove. Does anybody know if it's possible to run a line to a small tank out in the yard without a great deal of trouble? Surely one stove can't use that much gas.

-- glynnis in KY (gabbycab@msn.com), July 29, 2000.

glynnis: A gas stove doesn't use much gas and is very easy to have installed- at least here. You have to make SURE the orifice is set for propane ( different than natural gas) but here the local propane company will bring out a 30 gallon tank and set it up on a concrete pad, run the pipe and check out the stove for not much money. The pipe is just copper- I think the type will depend on local codes. If the stove is on an outside wall, it will be VERY easy.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), July 29, 2000.

The only thing I pine for is a walk-in pantry with upper & lower cabinets, drawers, a flour bin, wood counter top and a window. I used to have this one in a former house! Oh, and a tin celing in the kitchen. Book shelves are nice for your cookbook collection.

-- Jean (schiszik@tbcnet.com), August 02, 2000.

Jean, Im sure this is a dumb question....but, what is a tin ceiling? I love reading everyone's ideas! I will also be printing this!. Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), August 03, 2000.

Wendy, a lot of older houses (turn of the century, I think -- circa 1900, not 2000 --- LOL!) had lovely pressed tin ceilings. They were usually high ceilings, and had lovely designs on them, often with a medallion design around the central light fixture or ceiling fan. They really are nice. It is possible to put in a new one, but very expensive. I think they were originally imitating sculptured plaster ceilings that were found in the homes of the very wealthy.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), August 03, 2000.

Something else occurs to me after spending more time in the kitchen this week...I don't think I will ever do a kitchen with cabinets hanging over an island or peninsula again. I hit my head on those cabinets every once in a while as I'm cooking. (We currently have a tiny kitchen that we haven't touched since we bought this place.The cabinets are tight and built for people a lot smaller than we are!) And....while I love my little hanging light fixture over the dining table, I hit my head on it sometimes (more so for my husband who is a good head taller than I am). Maybe that's what's wrong with us??? :) Anyway, lighting will be recessed or at least placed better.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), August 03, 2000.

Thanks Kathleen, now I understand! Sounds wonderful! Wendy

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), August 03, 2000.

-As many windows as possible for ventilation and view. -I buy in bulk. Have an open cabinet mounted on wall to hold quart jars of misc. ingredients in alphabetical order. -Slide out shelving under cabinets for pots and pans. -Hooks overhead in ceiling to hold all cast iron pots and skillets. -An extensive spice rack in alphabetical order. -Instead of cabinet fronts I have curtains. No wiping cabinets down: just wash curtains. Can change fabric to change the look, also.

-- kathy baker (kbaker@duo-county.com), August 15, 2000.