....but I haven't read all of the threads recently.....but have we discussed the new referee's laws released earlier this last week....and what do we all think of them?

-- Anonymous, July 29, 2000

Answers

Could someone provide a summary? I saw the headlines, but never had a chance to read the details.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 2000

#250,000 fine to club if serious misconduct vs ref. Will ManU collapse as a business+football club over the coming years? Its possible.

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2000

Not to mention the possible 2 point deduction for ref mishandling. ManU relegation candidates this year?

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2000

Didn't you read the small print which states that 'these new laws do not apply to Man Utd' ;-)

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2000

There's whingeing already about the two point thing. It's said to be illegal even before anybody's suffered from it, and if a team is docked two points that cost them a place in Europe or whatever, the full weight of some legal process will be brought to bear to get them back.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

I hate deducting points - it ruins it. mind you, fines are OK...but they should be realistic like #1m (not #25K)

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Someone is going to have to be permanently detailed to watching Shearer....

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

CIARA: The following are the new rules as outlined last Wednesday. Just in case it is all screwed up, the URL is http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/football/newsid_852000/852841.s tm

BTW: Did you get my E Mail re caps?

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Football clubs and players up and down the country will be studying a lengthy new set of guidelines designed to clean up the image of English football following a number of unsightly incidents in recent years.

Confronting referees and inciting crowds are at the forefront of the FA crackdown, announced following FA discussions with the Premier League, the Professional Footballers' Association and referees' representatives.

Here are the major points raised by the FA paper:

Abuse of referees: Physical contact such as "jostling or holding" by a player or club official with a match official will lead to at least a 12-match ban and a fine of four weeks' wages. A greater penalty if the referee is pushed or suffers injury. Any repetition at any stage of career of any laying of hands on a referee will result in at least a one-year suspension.

Threatening behaviour or words: A range of punishments dealing with threatening or abusive behaviour or words to officials, other players or spectators, which scale from a fine of one week's wages to at least a three-match ban and similar fine for more serious incidents, especially when referees are the targets.

Conduct of players: Clubs are responsible for the conduct of their players and, as such, will be fined if a match official reports that he or she has been intimidated or harassed by three or more players from one team in a game. The level of fine will be up to #250,000 for the Premiership, #50,000 for the First Division, #25,000 for the Second Division; #10,000 for the Third Division; #2,500 for the Conference; and #1,000 for the Isthmian, Northern Premier and Southern Leagues. In "very serious cases only", there is the possible deduction of two points, while repeat offences in the same season would result in a fine of up to treble the above amount or deduction of up to two points. The same level of action would be taken by the FA in cases of mass confrontations between players."

Six or more bookings: When six or more players from any one team are booked or sent off in a match, there will be an automatic fine levied upon the club concerned. This will be a fixed fine of #25,000 Premiership; #5,000 Division One; #2,500 Division Two; #1,000 Division Three; #500 Football Conference; #250 others. Fines increase with each additional offence.

Crowd control: Clubs are responsible for their crowds and in preventing spectators from entering the pitch. Fines and possible points deductions to the same degree as the case of mass confrontations of players are potentially applicable.

Discrimination: Any offence which is motivated by discrimination by reason of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion, sex, sexual orientation or disability will result in double the normal penalty.

Accumulated bookings: Players with a total of five bookings by the end of February will receive a one-match ban. Those given 10 yellow cards by the second Sunday in April will get a further two- match ban. A three-match ban comes into force for 15 cautions and a four-game suspension for 20 bookings. Advisory panel: Incidents deemed appropriate of further investigation by video evidence - such as use of elbows, spitting, head-butting or offensive gestures - will be judged by a new 12-man advisory panel, made up of former managers, referees, players or administrators and no longer linked to any club. The only refereeing decisions reviewed by the panel will be those concerning mistaken identity or wrongful dismissal carrying a three-match penalty.

Disciplinary commission: The FA disciplinary commission imposing final penalties have absolute discretion and for more serious offences - those not involving an incident which a referee would have punished by a caution or red card - they will consider a range of mitigating or aggravating factors before passing sentence.

Tickets: Anyone involved in the game who is found to be selling or offering for sale a ticket for a match in excess of the face value will be given a lifetime ban on ticket allocations as well as a fine.

Betting: Betting by anyone involved in the game is strictly forbidden, other than on the football pools. Anyone found guilty of such an offence would be fined and/or suspended from the game.

Speed of disciplinary process: All charges will be brought within a maximum of four days after a match and often sooner. Hearing dates will be set within three weeks of a response to a charge letter.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

ITK, have responded to your email. Thanks for posting up the rules. Seems reasonable enough. It's more a matter of whether they'll be implemented fairly and also take into consideration circumstances. I could see this easily becoming a situation like the rash of cards at the beginning of last season with officials getting a bit overzealous with the new mandates.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

I reckon that most of the new 'rules' are pretty good and sound in basis, however, the one that 'slightly' worries me is the Incidents deemed appropriate of further investigation by video evidence - such as use of elbows, spitting, head-butting or offensive gestures - will be judged by a new 12-man advisory panel, made up of former managers, referees, players or administrators and no longer linked to any club. The only refereeing decisions reviewed by the panel will be those concerning mistaken identity or wrongful dismissal carrying a three-match penalty.

So if a player makes a bog up and gets caught on video, he can be punished later, However, if the referee makes an enornmous cock-up, say disallowing a goal that is perfectly legitimate, there is no legislation for his errors to be rectified by video evidence.

It seems to be a Protect the referee at all cost edict, but the fans can still get sh*t upon from a high height.

On the side, it is not mentioned in the rules above, but I also like the new lose 10 yards for dissent rule that is being brought in....ala rugby.......it just begs the question, when are they going to extend Old Trafford so that the pitch is 300 yards long. ;0)

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

What about the six bookings rule. There are some referees who just love to show the card, and I'm sure we've had six bookings in a game before and we will again.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Kegsy,

We're one of the cleaner teams so we're more likely to escape punishment than the Spurs and Leeds of this world....

Now if only we could get rid of stupid red cards like those shown to Shearer and Dabizas last year then we'd be laughing at the rest :)

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

But that's what I mean. The Shearer and Dabizas sending off show just how badly refs can lose it. Leeds are nggly and deserve it, but It wouldn't surprise me if we have 6 booked with the likes of Jeff Winter in charge and that pillock who reffed the Derby match a few years back.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

>>>>However, if the referee makes an enornmous cock-up, say disallowing a goal that is perfectly legitimate, there is no legislation for his errors to be rectified by video evidence.

The video evidence in question here, happens after the match so it would be ridiculous to alter the result after everybody's gone home. However, I think it would be great if video evidence could be used during the match much like it is in cricket at present. All the usual warnings about stopping the game and holding things up are important here but I think it could be accomodated without too much mither.

As for refs making mistakes, I think I'm in a small minority who think that they do a remarkable job in almost impossible circumstances. How many games do we see where several commentators and "expert" summarisers scream offside, only to alter their opinion after the slow motion replay? Neither the ref nor linesman get benefit of that evidence and yet their judgement is often (certainly not always) superior to those in the studio.

But the job, as it stands at present, is impossible to get right and games will always be marred by mistaken decisions. Video evidence during the games would lessen these errors and take some of the weight off the ref's shoulders. Refs, after all, aren't paid #20k per week to make their mistakes, unlike the primadonnas they attempt to control.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Spot on as usual Jonno....I quite enjoy seeing TV pundits like Trevor Brooking get decisions totally wrong and then still not change their minds after seeing the slow motion replay...it's hilarious :)) The refs do a remarkable job but it's still not quite good enough....

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Jonno, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking referee's per se, but I do worry that while everyone else's actions are being called to book, and quite rightly for some of them, the long suffering supporters are regularly being short changed by what I can once again only describe as the Premier League and FA preoccupation with the protect the referee at all costs attitude.

I wouldn't nescesarily advocate changing a result after everyone has gone home, although it wouldn't be the first time a result has potentially been shelved (Toon v Forest 74 - Arse v ???? 99?) but what I think is required is when there is quite clearly no doubt about the fact that the referee got it wrong (was it Romania at SJP in Euro 96) then the "heirarchy voice of officialdom" hold up their metophoric hands and say "Yes, our guy got it wrong

I don't care who they are, everyone at some time in their job make a mistake......it takes a big man person to admit it......it's a real coward who always covers it up.

I agree, referee's in the main do a bloody good job in what really are often horrendous conditions, but I just don't want to get cheated season aftre season after season by incompetant bone heads who think they are bigger and better than the game itself.

They are there to officiate, not to star. I reckon the best referee's are the ones who, at the end of the game you have to ask who they were. The bad one's have you reaching for the programme in the pre- match warm-up.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

now the bold is off as well, hopefully......sorry

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Phew!

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

No wonder you're climbing the stats league with all these bloody HTML errors ;))

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Why do you think I do them!

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000

Why do you think I talk to you ;))

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2000