The Dark Side of Capitalismgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Corporate Suckup Forum : One Thread
I'm confused about something; Is it " of the people by the people for the people, or "of the corporation by the corporation for the corporation"? Elections don't mean much if the latter is true. --------------------------------------------------------------Also, when there is no limitation on greed in the USA, you end up with some people's annual salary being one million time that of others. Are actors, athletes and CEOs really that valuable to society where they need or should be paid that much? No. Think of where they get their money from......from consumers, the lower paid middle America. I call this trickle up economics.
-- Steve Rasmussen (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 05, 2000
What you say is true, I suppose.
But why does everyone worship at the altar of movie/sports business celebrity? Why do we think that the latest hypester multi-million dollar twit should be held up like a hero?
-- Robert Roaldi (email@example.com), December 20, 2000.
Greetings: Our concern should be how we spend our time, as each breath is a gift, wich one day shall be required of us. I believe Timothy said it best 2 Timothy 3:1-4 But realize this, that in the last times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobediant to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irrecociabile, malicious, gossips, without self control, brutal, haters of good, treachurous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather then lovers of God. I pray that you come to the knowledge of Jesus to understand whats is here and coming! Jesus saves
-- Alex a follower of Jesus (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), March 07, 2001.
I'm not Religious---->KNOWLEGE IS INTERESTING THOUGH FOR IT DOES EXIST AS MUCH AS IGNORANCE
ABSTRACTIONS ~ although relevent because you can not deny that You Exist~ Besides Indiviguality IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION<<<< their is no indivigual without the social, i find it strang that it is always the few who controll the many in any economic system created my man!!! WHO ARE WE AGAIN I BELIEVE THAT WE DO NOT QUESTION AND THEORIZE ENOUGH! LOOK INTO THE GREEN PARTY!
FREE MARKET DEMOCRATICLY EDUCATED SOCIALISM!
DISMANTAL TO KNOW AND FIND A SOLUTION! UNITE FOR capitalism is the equal to communism~they are two sides to the same coin and are ABSTACT~ we must creat something NEW! ~That WORKS !!! AND NONVIOLENTLY ALOW IT TO TAKE HOLD!!! it is called~(careful some of you might be in for a shock) TRUTH AND REALITY~ LOVE HEALS (ABSTRACT~don't be attached to the symbols)
-- Chris Conroe (Unknown Deapth@hotmail.com), March 22, 2001.
Evangelism is nothing more than prejudice against people who believe differently. That's how wars start. That's how hatred begins. See Northern Ireland or the Christian/Islam problems in Egypt. My make believe friend is better than your make believe friend? Sounds crazy, doesn't it?
-- Steve Rasmussen (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 16, 2001.
Returning to the subject of this thread, I'd say that Capitalism doesn't have to be like this, but the way it is in the 'developed' World (USA, Europe etc) is centred around a few things:
The ownership/running of powerful corporations (more powerful and influential than most of us realise) by a small number of people. Look at the pharmaceutical multinationals, oil companies, Microsoft etc - they all have control of vast resources.
The value placed on shares and the stock market. Share prices (individual greed - since we buy shares so that they make large profits) are considered to reflect the worth of a company. However, they reflect the hope of dividends and profit by share owners. This distorts the company's priorities. Many companies think that keeping shareholders happy is more important than pleasing customers or employees. Short-term profit is the main goal in the UK, and it is hurting the economy, as investments are not geared towards long-term benefit. This impacts negatively on staff & customers.
The growth of celebrity endorsement is part of the great drive of marketing. We are told what we should buy, which brand and even which specific model suits us. Not just our needs (a car must be reliable and get us from A to B) but our aspirations. We Westerners are aspirational - in the sense that we want to do better than our peers. We want a better education, nicer clothes (or a specific logo) which all reflect on us as being 'better', having succeeded in some way.
It's all twisted, and a route to disaster for individuals. It makes companies (in other words directors) lots of money, but they either shed employees like unnecessary baggage or treat them like dirt. They invest unethically, they happily destroy natural habitats, they take shortcuts (to save money) which cost lives. All for profit, nothing else. Don't ask about UK rail privatisation and the state of our railways, it's not funny - it's a mess.
Athletes, celebrities and politicians are all JUST like us. They have only significance because sad, weak people watch TV, buy magazines and invest these individuals with some kind of status, an almost mythical quality. They're just people, ordinary people. Their talents are valued out of all proportion to anyone else's. I feel everyone has talents, just that some are worth more than others.
It's sick, and the only way to start putting it right is to ignore the hype and start thinking for yourself and about other people. Offer respect to people you deal with. My motto is to treat other people as I wish to be treated myself. It goes a long way, people respond so incredibly to good words and actions. Why should I respect pop stars? They sing; so what? I respect people who mend my car without ripping me off, or someone who makes a piece of furniture or a painting that I enjoy (they don't have to be famous, in fact I prefer it if they're totally unknown). I sometimes take photographs which please other people. Seeing their pleasure is a treat, but it makes me no more or less than anyone else. We are all equal. Start treating others as such and the world will be a better place.
-- Simon E. (email@example.com), August 07, 2001.
Simon, I have to tell that your understanding of enjoying the simple for their gifts is beautiful. Are world revolves around names, brand names, yet no place or name is above the other. We all have been given talents, unfortanately the loud and fooloish get paid for their nonscence "did i spell that right" because people choose to worship them, they choose to follow their 2 cent opinions without knowledge. I love how Jesus put it what men hold highly amongst one and other is an abomination to God. Why? because it doesn't allow the greatist treasure of honouring and serving one and other. A day is coming in wich the words of truth shall be revealed where all this foolishness of self gratifiacation will be put to rest. There is one name that is above every name that at the name of Jesus Christ every knee shall bow and confess he is Lord, he alone gives peace. Have a nice day everyone!
-- I am free (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), August 24, 2001.
I would delete all that nonsense that i tuped, but the page does not have such funtions, so i'm adding a remedy, to what ever i forumed before, at a time when wisdom did not seem as improtant, and gulibility had me by the balls, heh
capitalism, i am nither for or against, you can keep your money for all i care. there would be no capitalism if there was no state of nature( john lock ) which gives rise to ( the state of the nation ) or political philosophy. Economics is just a burocacy comited to a from of social organizaion for finding subsitence for the overall comunity, which happens to be amplified by our rather distinctly large population numbers, although considering that if we were to all be hunter gathers we would esentally live in an egalitarian form thus giving rise to the premis of john locks political phillosophy, that all men/and women are created equal, and consent to the government so that complicated societies can exist and a surplus be achieved, thus giving rise to the various endevors and organizations for social urbanization. All forms of economics weather capitalism or not are required to fundamentally conform to the the constitution of whatever governmental that such a buisness is practicing within. Other wise the society experiences drastic organizational and administrative problems, in distributing food which can lead to riots...for the farmer is ultimatly the provider to any urbanized society, nation or "civilization". (historicaly at least) Capitalism allows for anyone to pursue the endevor of aquireing wealth. Although there might me a certain realm of ethical considerations to such an endevor witch is why it must conform to the constitution and even then you still have the problem of corruption, and inhumane aquasitions of wealth which cause discontent in a nation and can evenchually lead to uprisings. corportaions are just organized burocuracies and i am not agains it but i fermly stress that the whole premmis of capitalism was that if you worked the land you did the labor you reep the benefits not someone else, that was why the founding fathers came up with life liberty and the purcuite of happyness which used to be the purcuite of property but got modified considering the falacy of the discusting trade of slavery. it is not capitalism that is failing it is the people who are failing them selfves, the executives are reeping to much than the laborers which is not unlike a fudal organization in which every laborer has to pay rent to to whomever is higher up on the latter and evenchually you get to the king who ones all, ex...the major stock holder of the company, who really does not do any of the work at all. but just makes administrative discisions. The needs to be a way to reak a ballance onto such drastorous unfainess. where those that creat, reserch, and produce the product all have coresponding and measurable equivalents for what labor they put in, including share options, this is what unions do. they make sure that this happens. otherwise there is no government in charge anymore and all the values inherent in the constitution have been forsaken. The same needs to be considered with monopolies so that the values inherent in the, equallity of men and women in a society are not trampled on. other wise you are ignoring the true state of nature of things and the value's that hold together a democracy: and paramenities put it rather beautifuly as to why a democracy is better than some despotic rule, : to read it look up speach of "Paramenities" greed advocate of democracy.
the diffenence between marxism, which also considers that all men and women are equal is that the wealth should also be distributed equally, (irrelavent of the labor qoaficient) which can be a dangerous way of doing things.
no it is not capitalism that is in corupted it is the peeple, and they are the ones who make up the society and the government and the buissnesses, because they do not really understand why it is that we have ethical things. they loose sight of the dream in a ravouns purcuite of wealth, to a point were they don't even see people anymore. instead they only see a buck. this is dangous, considering on the whole how a sociey functions, such economic uneathical practice such as, MUNIPULATING THE LAW, so that an organizaion can bypass certain ethical quallities which can be considered Barriors to the aquasition of capital is out right, war on the integraty of the local people, there freedom and the reasons for such in the first place, which so many americans enjoy, but never apreciate. just because u have money and wealth does not give you the right to violate the rights of the people and the right that are upheald of the people by the people for the people. let us not forgit the emphasis on john locks emperical philosophy of the state of nature and how it contrasts as well with other phillosophies, for inherenty there would be no capitalism, or democracy if there was not an understanding of the state of nature and we would all be reduced to fear, oppression, and religious declaratoins by arbitrary despots, who's word is law and there is no contest or innocent till prooven guilty for it is stallenism at its best and if you threaten the institutional seet of power then... off with your head!. this is not good, this is not peace, this is not freedom, this is not joy, this is not enlightenment that we live as members of an embodied society that uphold values that rejuct such organisations of society, due to there unreasonable and unproobable truth, ultimatly. It is fundambental that we work together as a human comunity or we may never come to understand anything that we may believe. And the manipulation of the wealthy on our democratic republic has to stop now or we shall all see our own doom, of the freedoms that we as peopl and seekers of knowledge enjoy.
-- chris conroe (MagnusIstari@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.
Hello, My name is Srinivas. I live in India, am 25 year old young guy, single. I'm Christian.
My Postal address:
Pilla Naga Srinivasa Rao, Jillellamudi Vari Lane, Eastern Street, Eluru-534001, Andhra Pradesh-India.
-- Pilla Srinivas ( Pilla Naga Srinivasa Rao ) (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 04, 2002.
Steve, you sound like a communist to me. Not that the idea of equal pay is really that bad of a communistic view.
-- Myachi (email@example.com), December 02, 2002.
The dark side of Capitalism is the worship of capital with a total lack of consideration for your fellow man. It is a self centered, arrogant, selfish point of view that should have died out with the fall of the Monarchs. The king in HIS castle with all his riches, subverting the masses for his own benefit. Sound familiar?
Communism has proven to be a very inefficient political and economic system. Its people are not motivated to get jobs done. It's not the answer.
Our current economic system needs to be modified so that the greed factor is regulated. Our want-to-be-Monarchs need to be controlled. Our Government has a hands off policy when it comes to busines, but when it comes to regulating people, there are plenty of controls. Just because I say "DARK SIDE of CAPITALISM", doesn't mean I am a fan of Communism. But, our brand of Capitalism needs help.
-- Steve Rasmussen (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 02, 2002.
okay, i probably dont really understand what you all mean, but from what i know its the profit & money a country makes..........?? i think...anyway, i think itz dark and sickening. companies like; Nestle...(ther list goes on) well, they all pay workers something like 85 cents. which is a loada ***. and they all do it 4 greed. sick. in the USA theres tonnes of it. no doubt... people get paid loads 4 nothing. i guess that why i despise celebs. but thats a different issue altogether.
half the profit USA makes is also on cigarettes. and its probably gonna get worse. as their profit goes up, they take more and more advantage of vulnerable people in '3rd world war' countries. who dont know the effects of smoking.
there are millions of ways to make a profit. but its all done badly, (and mostly in the US)
-- Hannah Parkens (email@example.com), May 18, 2003.