I have an idea. And when I tell it I get two simutaious reactions: 1) it is not enough, you are wrong. 2) You are a wild optimist for even thinking that the Body of Christ will achieve even that anytime, ever.

The idea is that with the Eastern churches, the Protestant revolution and others like the Copts, the Body of Christ will never be united under one administrative head. So what would be cause for hope? If we respected the brother/sister-hood of each, considered each as a vauled member of the body, appriciated what the other can bring to the body, and maybe were open to new viewpoints, that the respect would be enough to have enough unity to say that the Mystical Body of Christ *is* unified, not administrately, but spiritually in respect and reverence. Wild eyed dreamer, Sean

-- Sean Cleary (sean_cleary@bigfoot.com), August 15, 2000

Answers

Hi Sean, You are not dreaming at all. This is already a reality in many places, for instance, a community called Madonna House in which lay men and women and priests live together. Their spirituality is very much a combination of Roman Catholic and Orthodox, and there is not a great deal of substantitive difference recognized there between the two. I think anyone with a compassionate and open heart would agree that we are all united in Christ. Certainly the present Pope does. You aren't dreaming. It's already here. Don't be so fixated on the legalism here. Loosen up. Roman Catholics really don't have a big problem with the Orthodox. Reformed Protestants are another story. They really are different. But still we are all Christ's sisters and brothers. But Christ loved the Samaritan woman at the well, and everyone else who was "outside" too. So too should we. But Jesus still very gently led her to see Him for who He is. Living water.

Sean, you seem to have a sweet heart, and to be really searching for Truth here. God bless you. But the answer really isn't here, or even in your own mind. Someone I met once said that we need to "fold the wings of our intellect" and open our hearts in prayer. Some things just need to be answered in prayer.

Don't look here. Ask Him.

You are in my prayers. Pray for me too.

Love, Jane

-- Jane Ulrich (carlos.eire@yale.edu), August 16, 2000.

I agree with you sean. I have that hope too. and I agree that the reformed protestants seem to be something else. living here in the south, in august, the revivalism is getting a little too hot, and I grow weary of a religious ideal less than 200 years old, telling me what I believe. Most of them have heard untruths and don't even want to inquire into my real beliefs out of the fear it might "taint" their souls. I don't mind them believing as they do, I just want to live in peace.

-- terry (tmcmi@alltel.net), August 18, 2000.

Hi, Sean.
God wants us to have a firm hope for unity.
You wrote: "The idea is that with the Eastern churches, the Protestant revolution and others like the Copts, the Body of Christ will never be united under one administrative head. So what would be cause for hope? "

There are two foundations for hope -- one divine, one human.
Jesus prayed that we "may be one" as he and the Father are one. DIVINE: Jesus's prayer to the Father is the most powerful prayer that can be made -- hence a great foundation for hope.
HUMAN: 1. Huge number of the Orthodox parishes in Central and Eastern Europe (for example, in Western Ukraine) have reunited themselves with the Catholic Church, under the primacy of the pope, at various times since the great schism of 1054.
HUMAN: 2. The Fathers of the Second Vatican Council fashioned one of their 16 documents, "Unitatis redintegratio," on the subject of reunification of Christians. This has led to tremendous amounts of theological work and meetings between Catholics and various churches [i.e., Orthodox, Coptic, and other apostolic churches of the East] and "ecclesial communities" [church-like bodies that do not have apostolic succession (e.g., Protestant denominations/communions)]. The Vatican II work has also led to other friendly and hope-filled documents written by the popes, most especially "Ut unum sint" and "Orientale lumen" by John Paul II.
HUMAN: 3. My understanding is that a schismatic Christian church that broke away about 100 years ago in the eastern U.S., is near to rejoining the Catholic Church. (It is called the Polish National Catholic Church.)

Let us pray that, as the Pope says, the Church may soon breathe with both lungs.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), August 18, 2000.

Yes,Yes Sean,

This is my prayer. For all those who proclaim Jesus Christ as Savior and make Him the Lord of their lives to be united as "The Body of Christ".With Christ Himself as the Head. Why do we sweat the small stuff? All that head knowledge is not important when it comes to real FAITH in Jesus. We need to read GOD'S WORD...THE HOLY BIBLE...and hide it in our hearts.

1 Peter 1:3-5.....Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has BEGOTTEN US AGAIN to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Love is the key. Jesus embodies LOVE. When Jesus lives in our hearts, there is no room for hate, disrespect,selfishness. His love makes your heart overflow with unspeakable JOY, that spills out and reaches those who don't know Christ Jesus.

Jesus , your Holy presence living in me is the air that I breathe.Your very Word spoken to me, this is my daily bread.

Love, Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), November 13, 2000.

Susan,
Many of these just-expressed thoughts of yours are beautiful and moving. And so I hesitate to find any fault with them.

However, they do contain one extremely serious error -- so serious that I must bring it up. I am very much afraid that it is one of the errors that may have led you astray when you left Catholicism, and I have to answer it, so that other folks who will read this thread do not similarly slip.

You wrote: "Why do we sweat the small stuff?"
But this raises the question, "What is the small stuff?"

I'm sorry to have to say that some things that are being shrugged off as "small stuff" are actually matters of life and death. And that is why we need a "teaching Church" -- the Catholic Church that Jesus founded -- to help us to know what matters and what does not matter with respect to our spiritual lives.

Unfortunately, you and Sean are mistaken about this. A certain significant amount of "head knowledge" is vital, and it must be linked with love (expressed in good works), in accompaniment with the faith that you so rightly proclaim to be great and vital too.

We need both "faith and reason," as Christians have always known. If a person casts aside reason, he may be full-hearted but also empty-headed, and this can lead to following dangerous people (or even evil spirits).

We must pray for wisdom and prudence. You are right, Susan, to see in the Word of God your "daily bread." But what you have unfortunately not yet regained is the knowledge that the Word of God is both spoken/written and present to us in the flesh. Jesus intended us to receive our "daily bread" both in the form of the written word and in the form of the Holy Eucharist (his very Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity), without which our souls will die (John 6).

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), November 13, 2000.

My Dear Friend John,

First, I just want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my writings. I want you to know that I think it's OK that we don't always agree. Conflict can be a good thing.As long as what is said is edifying.

We are not on the same page on this "head knowledge" thing. I'm not talking about intellect or reasoning.(and where did I say to cast away REASON?) Take what you know about Jesus and put it in your heart. Love with your heart, not your head.

What Jesus taught is very SIMPLE (not easy, but doable with Him at the center of ones life). God put this verse in my heart this morning after I prayed about my answer to you. Matt.18:1-3...At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying,"Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said,"Assuredly I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Now, about GOOD WORKS. Good works are not what gets you into heaven. Paul said in Romans 10:9-10..."For if you tell others with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord, and believe in your own heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For it is by believing in his heart that a man becomes right with God; and with his mouth he tells others of his faith, confirming his salvation. GOOD WORKS are an outward sign of Jesus in your heart. But there are people doing GOOD WORKS (for their own gain)whose hearts have nothing to do with Jesus. Right.

You're right, we all need a church, where only TRUTH is taught. Where we can receive the wonderful gift of Christ's Body and Blood in Holy Communion.

Love through my Savior Jesus Christ,

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), November 14, 2000.

I been away for a while. I just got a wonderful idea, and I have gotten some responces to this posting. I want to reply to the post before posting the wonderful idea. Head knowlege or no head knowledege, I was trying to bring 'respect' into the discussion. Love would be a bit much to hope for, but I felt that we might have a hope of being united in respect. I really do not know how to start this, but I will be working on it, may be only at our parish level.

Because of the prior exploration and discernment I went through the last time I can say why this is important to me. I tried to get a priest to say a mass for a protestant friend when I was young. I was nervous, I had just learned the 'magic' words from the nuns, and had forgotten the formula; I knew that money was involved and did not have much. And it was a Catholic priest and a protestant friend. So I tried honest-is-the-best-policy, was not slick as the nuns tried to teach us, and blew it. I got a lecture on the sin of buying a mass/prayers/Christ instead of the expected help. Let the past bury the past: it was gross miscommunication on everyones part. But the sensitivity remains.

So, let me count the ways that we could respect each other more, in the Name and Body of Christ.

When a great man/woman of any church dies, let all the churches in their own way take note. When Billy Grahmn dies, let the Catholic churches acknowlege that we have lost a great warrier against evil and a great man for Christianity. Whan the Pope dies, let the Protestant churches likewise pay respect. This should be easy, but since it may cool the fires of Hell, I do not expect it soon. The extreme is when the Catholic Church notes that someone outside of their ranks should be sainted. (Saint C.S.Lewis anyone?? Like Never.) Still any progress in this regard would be wonderful, there is so much progtess that could happen it is so easy to start anywhere.

Let no one hate, and especially no church hate anyone or any church in the Name of Jesus. Seems simple? Alas, I suspect there are too many counter examples. Thank you for not increasing their number, however.

May the next contributer contribute one example of how we can grow in respect, and how we can better show basic respect for each other.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (sean_cleary@bigfoot.com), December 20, 2000.