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Most folks would think we were crazy....we own our own 3 acre farmstead in the boonies on the richest, blackest land...we operate our own cafe' where business is booming...our kids go to a small (total enrollment:184; K-12 in one building,) school, but are we happy? No! And I'll tell you why. Lack of community. Small towns where everyone is related can be very painful and isolated experiences for newcomers (We've been here 2 years.) Spiritually we feel like we are dying. Christians are meant to be in community with one another, caring for, encouraging and admonishing one another in love. We are so ready to move...really...but have no roots anywhere; so we are open to where the Lord may lead. We are as a feather in the wind of His Spirit. Please; if anyone knows of pockets of community in mid-sized, mid-west towns; where there may be a small cafe' for lease, let me know; this may be a vehicle of the Lords to lead us somewhere. FYI....we love the Lord passionately...but are not fundamentalists. If you may be wondering what we plan on doing with our 3 acre farmstead;this is absolutely perfect for families that really desire isolation. Believe me some folks do. The house is about 50+ years old, one a good limestone foundation; 5 bedrooms, one bath ( :( ) real cute, solid, forced air furnace, 3 fruit trees, 3 outbuildings, well water, no near neighbors, asking price $25,000. 00 Oh yeah,and located in Hanover, Kansas.

-- Beth Weber (talmidim88@hotmail.com), August 21, 2000

Answers

Beth, my heart goes out to you. As one who has moved more times than I care to remember, I know how hard it can be to break into a new community. We were lucky when we came to our current home....we were able to make our friends among the other outsiders (newcomers). It is almost impossible to break into the existing community. Are there other like-minded folks around who could come together for occassional fellowship? We have been here a total of 5 years and have never been invited into the home of a "native". They are nice enough, cordial, but hospitible? Nope. You didn't mention any denomination, but Iwould suggest staying away from little, ingrown churches that are mostly family-run. Look for a growing non- denominational worship center. They tend to attract the other souls who don't fit in. I would suggest my community, but I'm afraid you would find the same thing here! Too bad, we could sure use a good cafe that doesn't serve everything fresh off the Sysco truck. We have 3 or 4 places to eat in the area and you could be blindfolded and not tell which one you were in. Sorry, I know that's off the subject. Just a new pet peeve of mine. Good luck and God bless you in your search.

-- Melina Bush (goatgal1@juno.com), August 21, 2000.

Beth! Have you thought that He might have you in this location to start a mission for Him? Sometimes He leads us to places we just don't understand but when we open our hearts and minds to His will then things start to change for the better. We will also grow in His service and become more and more satisfied with what we're doin for Him. Ask Him to open your minds to what He wants you to do---He will! If it turns out that you're not where He wants then ask Him to show you His plans. Sometimes, Ive noticed it too, He can't even get into those little tight knit, family run churches! Where the Spirt is quenched He can do no work. You could start a Bible study in your home as a starter. He says in His Word that where two or more are gathered in His name He will be there! A married couple adds up to - TWO! Good luck! Matt. 24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), August 21, 2000.

I moved to Central Florida 16 years ago from New England, I had no friends here, a few relatives.I am not what you would call an outgoing person, It took me probaly 8 years before I met people that I would call close friends, I had quite a few aquaintises but no true friends for the first 8 years.

Florida is a transit state and it is hard to get to know the Natives here, so many people come and go here people get wary of outsiders.

I was told by someone early on not to tell people how you did things "Up North" and how good things are at "Home". He told me to ask questions learn a few things about the area, History, culture and their different methods of doing certain tasks. When I finaly put this advice to use I found it worked good to meet new folks and I learned a whole lot in the meen time.

I enjoy a cold beer now and then but the people I met in local Taverns were mostly all whiners, they whined about how people ignored them, couldn't find any friends, "all the natives are jerks". So I went searching other places my choise were the local Sale Barns because I enjoy livestock and wanted to meet like minded people. Once I gained the trust of a couple of people I was introduced to many more and now most of my friends are Native Locals and they consider me one of them. Sure they kid me about being a "Dumb Yankee" but to me kidding is a good sign that I am part of the "Gang".

Your going to probaly run into theese problems where ever you move into a close knit community. So listen, learn ask questions hang out at places where you might find like minded people. No it's not easy but it is rewarding once you are accepted. GOOD LUCK!!!

-- Mark (deadgoatman@webtv.net), August 21, 2000.


Being a minister I know what it is like to move into a new community and not know anyone. I am very outgoing and make friends easily but it usually takes my family 3-4 years before they really feel at home and comfortable in the new community. So don't give up yet. Take all of the above advice and pray. Sometimes the Lord doesn't change our circumstances but changes US in our circumstances.

-- Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), August 21, 2000.

It sounds like you have everything going for you except spiritual companionship. Short of trying to start your own services, seems like about all you can do is to keep trying different churches, etc. until you find a congregation you like, which may be more important than the actual preaching. It may even be in another community. It would seem a shame to move your children out of such a nice environment. They are making friends in school and, if you stay, they will have friends and perhaps inter-marry in the community after they graduate. Try to give it another couple of years.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 22, 2000.


For what its worth, I don't think 2 years is even close to "giving it a chance." Stay put, don't be mislead to believe starting all over again will be easier than hanging with your present situation...it'll be at least another 2 or 3 years anyway to feel comfy again even if you find the perfect community, which I don't think exists anyway. There are no guarantees. Two years down the road, you may feel just like you do now! Small town folks are notoriously slow-warmers...that's why they live in small towns. Travel to find a good church...dig deep into yourself with the help of the Holy Spirit to see if there may be other things going on that are making you feel "uninspired" and wanting to move on other than the lack of fellowship.

-- JimR (jroberts1@cas.org), August 22, 2000.

Dear Beth, we are in the same boat you are & we have tried it for over 6 years now!!!! And today we are looking at a homestead around 75 miles from here & closier to my hubby's work!!!! Some areas will not change--& there are not ANY OTHER CHRISTAINS IN THIS AREA!!!! I totally understand!!!!! We felt like God lead us here---but after much prayer we believe we are suspose to leave. We have given, given, given, & given some more--we do know what it is like to ENJOY each day/ instead of dread what some drunk in the community is going to pull today on us/today because we are those "Jesus Freak--Outsiders"! We are looking at an area that all the people are "outsiders", as none of them have lived there & never left the area & have no idea there is an out side world/ let alone been in it! This is an area that rules & laws Do apply! I feel a non-christain would love this area, where we are!!!!!! It is beautiful country & has everything going for it except fellow Christains. We have a 11,000 sq ft warehouse with 5 office spaces/ our home& guest house & a barn & garage/ orchard, etc. It would be wonderful for someone who was not a christain/ or a far better one than we are/ as the price is 1/8 of what it would be somewhere else!!! If anyone is interested let me know by e-mail. As you all well know I call a spade a spade--not much I haven't already shared about this area with you, already. This town also has an 1800's stone mill across the street from our warehouse---- -tons of possibilities--but I'm tired--want less work & closier to hubbies work & with fellow christain friends! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), August 22, 2000.

Beth , where do you want to move to ? Look at Renee's post how to sell your house , if it sounds interesting to anyone I can put you in touch.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), August 22, 2000.

thank you,everyone, for your gracious replies!!! I'm kind of overwhelmed!!!(smile)

-- Beth Weber (talmidim88@hotmail.com), August 22, 2000.

I know that what I have to say here may not be what is wanted to be heard, but I do not believe christians are meant to be in community if there are none near by to be in community with. We are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together it is true, but sometimes we should be witnessing to others to give ourselves someone to assemble with. When my husband and I worship with our children we are assembling. My question to Beth is, are you attending a church? There are very few places in America where one cannot find a church to attend. If you can't find one than you should do as the pioneers did and start one. Even if there are only two families, you have enough for a church.

Isolation, is something country people have dealt with for a long time. It takes years to get to know people in isolated areas, but witnessing and ministering in a rural area is a different process than doing so in the city. It's about finding all the elderly people locally and stopping in regularly to check up on them. It is about taking a pie or cookies to a new neighbor or an old one for that matter. Community starts with you. It is dependent on you taking the initiative.

A lot of people live in cities and they feel more community because there are more people and they don't have to do anything to achieve it. In a city it is not necessary for most christians to actually get out into their community, because they can just wait at church for people to come to them.

In the country this is different, many times you must seek out those people around you and establish a relationship with them, because often they don't know you are there. My son goes out and works for elderly people in our area, with or without pay to help them maintain their property. In my opinion it is not about what you are getting. It is about what you are giving.

When you live in a new area it may take years to build relationships as in many rural areas trust is a tenuous thing. If you make a mistake it may follow you for years, not because people are unforgiving, but because they are cautious. When you move into a rural are it is important to establish a reputation of absolute honesty in all things. Shopkeepers remember the person who comes back to return the money the gave in overage to the customer by mistake. I once went back to return $20, and those ladies that helped me that day can't do enough for me. It was a little thing, but the never even bother to check my drivers license anymore when I write a check. These are the things that build community.

Communities were oiginally built by committed christians who were willing to stick it out and establish churches and schools in the westward expansion across America. They were built by people who went out and helped their neighbor when they needed it. I say if you want community be the first on the spot when there is a fire, or when an elderly lady needs help, or when someone's tractor gets stuck. I got my van stuck in the mud last spring and someone with a winch came along and pulled me out. I will always remember that man and the company he worked for.

In our local town, there are many activities sponsrred and planned by the community. We have pioneer day where all the merchants in town feed the entire town chilibeans(pop. 22,000). The main street is blocked of several times a year for parades, cruise nights, and other events. At christmas another street is blocked of and all the people walk down the street surrounded by various singing groups, dancers, actors, free popcorn, free hot chocolate, free cotton candy. The children sit on santas lap, and the whole town communes together with a good time to be had by all at the expense and sponsership of the towns merchants. The most popular exhibit of all is the elderly man at one house who plays scrooge, who stands on the roof and shouts insults at the passerbys with a gift for language like no other.

The city park, is the gathering place of the town and many events are scheduled there throughout the year. Never is there any fear of taking your child to this park where young families and young lovers can always be seen strolling and relaxing everyday of the week. The library is equally wonderful where the retired elderly people of the are gather to help nurture the children toward literacy. Our library has shelves and shelves of learning games and puzzles which can be happily played with the committed retired volunteers. I know all of this sounds unreal, but it is all true, which is why I love Paso Robles California. Some would ask then why are you moving away? my answer to that is Unfortunately Paso is in California, which I want to get away from.

Living here has taught me many things though, which I want to take with me wherever I go. First it has taught me that community begins with me. None of the good things about this town could happen without a committment from all involved. Second it has taught me that everyone has something to give. Young, old, short, tall, each person can contribute to making their community a wonderful place.

Little Bit farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 22, 2000.



Beth, Save yourself a whole mountain of heartache and stay put for another 2 years before moving on. You will be glad you did. I am not fond of our town either, with a local business you must not get the chance to say that very often. I am in that same boat. But, consider how everyone feels in your family. And find a surrogate town! I am in love with a town one hour away but can't leave our present location. So, I go there whenever I need a fix. Develop a friend or two in that town. One friend might just have to do for now.

Remember, what you want in another town may also bring you a load of other troubles. Good Luck! Christina

-- Christina (crublee@homer.libby.org), August 24, 2000.


Beth, It took us 10 years to really feel comfortable here, so don't give up. There are good people in your community, you just have to remember that they are already involved and have been probably all their lives with their old friends and family.

You have a perfect opportunity to interact with locals through your popular cafe. Be friendly, smiling, non-judgmental and listen a lot. Join a quilting group- there are no nicer people than quilters. Or a garden club, volunteer an hour or two in a nursing home, deliver meals on wheels, etc. There are lots of ways to be a person someone wants to know.

Now I'm going to add something that you probably won't like but it is truth: If you are preaching your religion to the locals they will never accept you. They will run when they see you coming. They have their own beliefs and don't want to be preached at. No matter how right you think you are, you won't make friends shoving your way of thinking on others. This probably doesn't even apply to you but it does happen.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), August 24, 2000.


Beth: Peg makes an excellent point. Nothing turns me off quicker than someone else trying to convert me to their religious philosophy. Basically religion and business don't mix unless you are running a religious book store or something. Same goes for friends of your kids visiting your home. Trying to get them to participate in evening prayer or discussion sessions may make them never want to visit again, somewhat depriving your children of that friendship. I'm not saying you cannot make your views known, but there is a time and place for everything.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 24, 2000.

Yeah....I would never throw out my faith in a superficial way....I believe alot of times you have to "earn the right " to be heard if you REALLY want to be heard. Hope that doesn't sound wishy washy, but it means so much more if your life is a testimony to your faith; for that is what it always comes back to. Does one practice what they preach? Whats the first word people say when there is a glaring inconsistency in ones words and life?

-- Beth Weber (talmidim88@hotmail.com), August 25, 2000.

Beth, you have exactly the right attitude!! And it sounds as though you have a wonderful place- that's a great start. Just hang in there. 4-H is another good place to meet good people.

Someone should start a "dating service" for newcomers! Match people up with like-minded folks for community and companionship. Maybe you could even do that. Like someone pointed out, there are lots of people who feel just like you do. Best of luck to you and your family.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), August 25, 2000.



Hi Beth - what a dilemma you've found yourself in - and how sad. I was in the same "fix" two years ago until I moved from a small community in Southern Illinois. I was determined to stay because I had old roots and fond memories of the area. It was not until I went to an old established church to find consolation and comfort did I decide that I had made a horrible mistake. How did I make the decision? It was very easy - the people who were in church turned out to be liars and fabricators - nothing that was all that bad, but still enough to let me know that not all Christians are who they say they are. Your town drunk may be a more substantial member of the community forever than you will ever be - trust and integrity will not have much to do with it. Your heart is telling you something and you should listen. The discomfort that you are feeling is an accumulation of a lot of facts that you have gathered, knowingly and unknowingly. How sad that my memories of Southern Illinoios will always be tainted by "church" people. God can only speak to you through your heart.

-- Jerry Cummings (futures8@bellsouth.net), August 27, 2000.

Sounds like you have agreat setup, other than your spiritual problem. Don't bail out yet though. You say you run a cafe, how is the traffic? If people frequent your establishment, your not a total outsider. I have friends in Huntsville Al , he was given a nice Methodist church that had everything, but members. It took him 3 years preaching only to his family, now that beutiful building has a firm congregation of 75 and a lot of us that drop in. David didn't give up, instead he faced life as the "field of dreams". I've found people are like horses, charge em, they bolt, be patient , they eventually come to you. As a previous answer said, you may be there for a purpose.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), August 28, 2000.

hi,

i just felt i had to answer, having lived that situation twice over. First, spent 2 years in rural Yankee country, 2 years, and now, just moved from LA to rural WA state. So, i know about isolation, community. I agree with what others have already said, give it at least 3 years, if not more. We just moved, only here 2 months, but we have met some nice people at the local church! In fact when we moved, were so exhausted with lifting heavy stuff, we went to church that first Sunday and asked for help. On a holiday weekend, six men showed up!!! that's community! That's part of the reason why we moved, and we had no friends or relatives here at all! The people we thought would be our friends, the contractor of our home & a christian man, shunned us after the job was done, when we looked to him, (our big mistake, when we should look to Jesus!)for advice, help, etc. I'm in it for the long haul, it's a beautiful area, and God sends people into my life almost every day reminding me why we moved from the city! When i'm homesick for the friends and one sister i left behind in the city, I know I can cry and then wait on Him who holds all the answers! Beth, if you're interested, move here! if that's what God is calling you to do, I'll be your first friend! I have more compassion now for the newcomer, the outsider, the one without family, as the Bible states in the Psalms "He places the lonely in families". Sorry i don't have the verse! Last night, we invited a couple over from our church, with kids around the same ages as ours, we're trying to "fit in". This is a very Christian community, and I've found that the people we thought would be our friends, the Christians who built our home, were total snobs, I hate to say it. I guess they thought it was fine when we had a business relationship, but after that, forget them. That's not the kind of Christians I need for friends anyway...but i digress. I would advise anyone to pray, seek the Lord, and ask him for clear direction, He will do it!!! I really know what you're going through, it took me 2 years to make friends in rural Connecticut, 5 years in LA, & hopefully a lot less time here in WA state--but we are planning to stay, and we decided to get involved with the community immediately! When i finally had "community" in LA, (the people in my apt. building & my local church) we had to move!!! While it did break my heart, I believe we made the right choice in the long run. And I will echo what others have said, walk the walk, don't just talk the talk, join & volunteer, and you'll find what you've been looking for. Remember, Jesus is with you always!!! Beth, you've got an established business, that's an incredible blessing right there!! Other ideas, hold an event, sponsor an event in the town. What one person on this forum said is sooooo true! Community starts with YOU!!

-- Gloria Geary (mistymt@theofficenet.com), August 28, 2000.


Always look at things from both sides, and remember they are treating you like strangers because you are! 2 years is nothing to folks who have lived in a place for generations, just ask me! We tease that we were sent in to add new blood! And that is only half sarcastic! They have certainly seen folks come and go alot, and look at you! Two years and you are going!

Remember also that when you pack up all of your stuff to move, yet again, you will be packing up all the problems also, and you just unpack all those problems at your new place. So now, what are you going to do to fit in? Church, volunteer, join groups, I took over the local 4H? Open the cafe to the ladies who do needle work, or a reading group, I met the old ladies in our area that truly run this small town, in a quilting club, where I by far was the youngest gal, but I still enjoyed myself! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 28, 2000.


Keep in mind as you read this post that I am not trying to point a finger at you and say you did something wrong, but I am sharing from my experience and from what I have read from other's experiences.

When God prepares someone for a work or purpose many times He takes that person aside, puts them where they don't have anybody to rely on but Him and then says, "Okay, I am here when you are ready to learn the lesson(s)."

Loneliness can be the best place to meet God from a new direction. It's in that isolation and loneliness that He can best get my attention and get me to work on me and me alone. It's in that place where the solitude allows me to sort out my true thoughts and feelings and get really honest with God. It is also in those times where 'personal revival' takes place. We often see 'corporate revival' in the Churches, but we don't often hear of a personal revival or times of refreshing.

When God wants us all to Himself and wants to take us in a new direction He oftentimes takes us away from our peers and those friends whose opinions would possibly cloud our perception of God's will or whose opinions matters more to us than what God wants for us.

Every time God raises up someone to do a special work He takes them off into their own personal wilderness, but when they get their direction straight from God, nothing can stop them!!

The following people could definitely relate to where you are at right now:

1. Noah- they thought he was crazy. Thank God He obeyed. 2. Joseph-he dreamed a great dream and was put in a pit, sold to a drug caravan, a dungeon, and then came out on top to save God's people. 3. David- He used different armor, killed a Giant twice (spiritually and physically), was chased all over the place by a jealous forerunner and finally became king. 4. Moses-God took a long time to work on him, but hey! He had a big job ahead of him! 5. Paul-he studied for three years off by himself and the Holy Spirit before he was ready for the ministry God called him too. 6. Amos-a prophet who used to trip fig trees and herd sheep. God needed somebody who wasn't over educated and He sent Amos to the school of the prophets. 7. The donkey's colt-Jesus said, "Tell him I have need of it." 8. Jonah-He didn't like the job God called him too, didn't like the people or the place. He even tried to get out of it because they didn't want to listen to him.

God bless!

-- stephanie nosacek (possumliving@go.com), September 09, 2001.


My experience is a bit different when it comes to moving. Having moved more times than I care to remember,two things really stand out when it comees to meeting people. The first thing we look for when seeking a place to live is a lack of churches. Our experience has been that if you dont want to join their church they are less than open to outsiders. The only exception that I remember to that is Unitarians who seemed truely interested in others as human beings. Aside from that I like a place where there is a bit of an influx of people. Coming from somewhere else they are as eager as we are to make friends. Having traveled a bit they realize there is a big world out there and just because someone doesn't think as they, it doesn't mean they're not worthy of acceptance. Everyplace that you go seems to have it's plusses and minuses. Last but not least 'no matter where you go, there you are'

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), September 10, 2001.

Beth, Been there done that with a twist.

As a pastor's wife, when we've moved into a new area I've had instant "community". But more often than not it is a false community. When things have gone sour or the honeymoon is over, the community dissappears. At each place we've lived there has been at least one true friend for our family.

We've been blessed to be in the same house now for 5 1/2 years. We have many aquaintances but few real friends. One of my best friends I've ever had in my 38 years only lived here for about 2 years. She moved into the area and had no other friends and we just "clicked".

There are no real roots here or anywhere else for that matter. If dh lost his current postition we wouldn't have a reason to stay or go.

The Lord has used these experiences to teach me that this world is not my home no matter how long I live in one place or how many friends I think I have. He has used these 16 years of marriage and moving (about 10 times in the first ten years) to teach me to lean on Him; that He is the ONLY constant.

I have been in the spiritual desert you describe and know how refreshing community can be. It is hard while you are in it but if the Lord is meeting your physical needs wait and see if He will meet your spiritual needs as well in His time.

-- LBD (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), September 10, 2001.


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