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I just finished my orientation as an accepted Americorps/Habitat for Humanity member (YAYYY!!!) and at our retreat I discovered that Habitat for Humanity affiliates keep what are called Habitat ReStores - basically a thrift/salvage store that they use to sell off donations that they can't use, or leftover materials from a gut job. You can get building supplies on the cheap ($5 doors I saw in one store, along with $8 rolls of new wall paper) and furniture that was donated by companies and people that they don't use or just get for resale. I saw an impressive table with 2 leaves and contemporary styling (sorta neo-Provencal) that was originally listed for $5530.00 tagged for sale at $425.00. Plus as a member of HFH, I would get a discount on top of that, so if you're looking for a modest income and like to help, the discount itself makes it worth considering. All of the money goes to help HFH house our poorest and neediest, so not only do you clean up money wise, but you can give your karma/soul a good scrub, too.

I am so excited about my new direction. After spending most of my adult life in a stressful job I loved, but that was helping few aside from me, I am now embarking onto a whole new life, doing completely different things and I can hardly wait. I'll be supervising volunteers, building homes, working with homeowners and having a ball. WHEEEEE!!! Scary, yet fun, as all truly new experiences are.

PS, if you're in the mid-NC area (or would like to be) and would like to join on, we have 2 more Americorp slots to fill before the deadline (less than 30 days, I'm sure.) You'd be doing about the same thing, I guess. You get a living allowance of $9000.00 (-tax) for the 11 month period and upon completion of 1700 hours service, a $4725.00 (if I recall correctly) education award, to be used for college. You can do this twice. (two 11 month services) If you're interested, contact Durham County Habitat for Humanity at 919-682-0516.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 24, 2000

Answers

Soni:

Please keep us informated on your experience. I know you are 'charged by the moment,' but I have also heard other opinions on the long-term impact of programs such as HFH.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 25, 2000.


Way to go Soni!!! In our area Habitat is a huge success. Waiting lists for houses and volunteers. I don't know of the down side but there usually is. Maybe Ken would elaborate. Good luck.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), August 25, 2000.

I spent my time with HfH and I hope you find much happiness and joy ! I am also one of it's harshest critics which leads me to respond and ask you--What is this selling of donatated materials ? Is that fair to the donator ? How did a total volunteer program of such good intention turn into a paid program ?

I know Milliard Fuller personally and he can't answer these questions either. I left because the selection process had become so racist I could no longer tolerate the "inhumanity for habitat" ! I learned many things in my time there. Good things ! I also learned that unless you are black and have seven children by seven different men than you ain't getting no house !

I quess I am that other view that Ken spoke of. When I was there (and at Koinonia Farm) we did it for love and there was no money. This does not mean I wouldn't strap on a tool belt and do it again if they would drop their bad habits for humanity !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 25, 2000.


This one is definitely something I know about. I work for the Federal Agency that manages the AmeriCorps program. AmeriCorps is the program where people volunteer a year of their time and in exchange they receive a stipend as well as upon completion of their term of service an education award which allows them to help finance college or pay back student loans. It is called the domestic equivalent of the Peace Corps. The AmeriCorps members are placed to work with various volunteer organizations such as Habitat for Humanity, the Red Cross, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, etc. They serve as full time volunteers which helps these organizations by providing a corps of volunteers that are available to work on their projects full time. As you know, volunteers typically donate a few hours a week. This becomes difficult to work around and the AmeriCorp members help to provide a regular work force who can coordinate the volunteers and keep a project moving smoothly.

The AmeriCorps members can serve up to two years in the program and many do. It is an awesome experience particularly for young people who are not sure where they want to head in life. It also gives them exposure to the lives of others who are not like them whether it is working in the inner cities or out in rural poverty. The intent of the program is geared towards helping the volunteer organizations but it is also to help the member to learn through service. The projects they work on include helping the environment, meeting human needs, education and public safety. Recently we have had members out helping with the forest fires out west. They also help in flooding, hurricanes and other natural disasters. They work with tutoring children to help improve their reading skills, in fact Colin Powell, is involved with the AmeriCorps program through a project called America's promise. It is truly a wonderful experience for the participants and many have made decisions to make national service their life's work. To learn more about this program, please visit our website at www.nationalservice.org.

As to the specifics of this thread on Habitat for Humanity, like most things, each one is a reflection of the people running it. Some are better than others. I have worked as a volunteer for HFH here in Washington, DC and was very impressed with how things were run. Others could have had different experiences, as it appears Joel did. But please don't let some bad experiences for a few color the whole program. Just like United Way a few years ago had an executive stealing millions of dollars from them, there can always be a few bad apples but it doesn't mean the program itself is bad. I hear so many stories of the positive things the AmeriCorps program is doing throughout America not only for those they serve but for the ones doing the serving. It is truly a win/win situation.

Hats off to you Soni and I think you will look back on this experience as one of the highlights of your life if the stories I hear everyday are an indicator.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), August 25, 2000.


I have never been involved with HFH, but I do know that here in Central NH a few years ago, they built houses for several white families -- married couples with children. So Joel's comment may have been true for the area he was in, but not in all places.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), August 25, 2000.


HfH originated at Koinonia Farm, and BTW, it was not Milliard Fuller's idea. The original ida was practiced by Clarence Jorden the founder of Koinonia Farm to break the hold landowners had on sharecroppers. I take offense at the idea people think they know more than me about HfH. I was there when Koinonia threw the founder of HfH out on his ass, and still I helped him. They did it for a reason and the reason is more pronounced by this post= You have no right on heaven or earth to sell donated materials or pay stipends to supposed volunteers from this money. The whole ( good system) is corrupted to fulfill Milliards dream. Talk about a self proclaimed God--I cannot belive any one doesn't see threw him ! The idea is a good one ( barn Raising) but like most other things -IT IS SO CORRUPTED ! If the government is involved you can bet your sweet backside that they are making a profit off it ! I was there when Clarence made it work! The rest is a downhill slide ! It was beautiful once and now it reaks of a septic tank !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 25, 2000.

For "evidence" that my words carry blood, I offer for your reading pleasure --" The Cotton Patch Evidence" by Dallas Lee. Subtitled- The story of Clarence Jordan(pronounced Jur-Dun'} and the Koinonia Farm Experiment. Harper and Rowe publishers.

A quote from Clarence that guides me " Never did Peter,Paul, or Stephen point to empty tomb as evidence of the resurrecution. The evidence was their fellowship ! I speak as a result of that resurrection !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 25, 2000.


All I know about HFH has been from TV reports and programs. My understanding is the new homeowners receive a substantially reduced rate mortgage and, even then, the default rate is something like 50%. I once met a guy at the laundromat who had worked on several HFH homes. About two years later he drove by to see how they were holding up. He called them 'instant slums'. His opinion and experience, not mine.

As long as the money from the sale of excess donations is funneled back into the program, I don't have a problem with it. Not everything needed is going to be donated, so some must have to be purchased outright.

If cities want affordable housing they can clean out entire neighborhoods and bring in doublewides. You have housing within a couple of days per lot. If you get a chance stop by a manufactured home lot. The quality is getting to be very, very high and it is getting harder and harder to tell them from stick-build housing. When they are trashed you haul them off and bring in another one.

And yes, I live in a single-wide. Governor of Arkansas is living in a triple-wide while the Governor's Mansion is being renovated. The Governor of Tennessee has a double-wide in Florida for vacations. John Granville would probably call all of us 'trailer park trash'.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 25, 2000.


Yes Ken, Mobile homes are built better. Many homes built by habitat are built in flood planes or other city confiscated areas (slums) ! So, we are tearing down the old slums and building new ones.( and I've helped on over a thousand of them ) A man that is used to throwing his whiskey bottles out his kitchen window does not stop because you move him to a new house. He doesn't stop beating his wife because you furnish him with a new house to do it in.

You have to do "500 hours sweat equity" to get a Habitat house---kinda like the 6 months you just did in county jail for non-payment of child support without free meals but you can add profit from cocaine sales.

If you really want to help the United States or the homeless than practice the biblical saying--he who does not work, neither shall he eat !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 25, 2000.


Here you only have to do 250-400 hours "sweat equity" as a home owner and the houses and Habitat neighborhoods I've seen are really nice and other local groups usually take some initiative to help clean up the rest of the surrounding area. One Habi-hood I saw had a project housing next door that was really bad until Habitat came and built on the the adjoining land. When the local sorority saew that we were investing home owners in the area, they raised money to buy (yes BUY) the project and fix it up, and tenent it with people who were actually interested in the area and its stability. Cool. Just went to a two-house dedication today, where Hab. has built, and is building, several homes on one street in a nice, but tired neiborhood. It seems to me that the presence of resident homewoners in an area, as opposed to landlord owned rental housing, boosts the neighborhood"s "self esteem" and since the folks have a vested interest in the area, they go further out of their way to improve the area and its entire population. Could be that Joel has just had bad experiences. From what I hear, we've only had a handful of mortgage- losses in the program at Durham, and that's not bad considering the rate of bank-financed foreclosures in the area. HFH will work with the homeowner who is having problems meeting their mortgage payment because of illness, family issues, etc, sometimes carrying them for as much as a year on interest and taxes alone. That, along with homeowner budget training and other preperatory classes seems to keep the failure rate low in most areas. Of course, there are badly run HFH affiliates and areas where they just don't work out for many reasons,like northern CA, where even HFH homes cost so much that its nearly impossible to fill them, but every rose has its thorn, if I can quote Axl Rose on this forum without being tarred and feathered. I will be doing my best for the people of this area. Things and organizations change, and if it takes government man-handling to get the most bang for our buck, assistance-wise, I'll be the first in line for a beating. PS, we aren't paid, as such. We receive only $9000.00 for 11 months (minus taxes) as a living allowance, because it's nearly impossible to do the work we do 40+ hours a week and still earn enough for rent at another job. Some of our affiliate are VISTA volunteers and they're not even allowed to have a second job, needed or not. Even the group who will be living on HFH quarters have to pay rent. As a matter of fact, our first worksite will be the renovation of the boarded up abandoned shell that they will be moving into. I'll try to keep an eye on the half full glass and go into the work with a positive mind. Since I have been working nights for most of my adult life, I have been amazed at the variety of flowers that are open in the early daytime that are not open at night. If this is the ony thing I get out of this year, I'll have gotten my metaphorical money's worth.

PS to Joel, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, most sincerely concerned, Don't you ever have any fun? You always sound so world weary on your posts that sometimes I wish I could just hug you and make it all better. I hope that your life is fullfilling for you and that you're just a grumpy typist.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 26, 2000.



Yes Soni, I have fun ! I also understand that your on cloud 9 with Habitat. Soon you'll learn (if you are in the admimistration) that is a suckers game built on obliging and using the down trotten of society. Actually to be part of Habitat is to use the poor --not help them. The whole program is designed to make Milliard look better than the asshole who stole Clarence's idea and was thrown out with it. It was better to send the theif packing with the idea than to argue with him. The whole process has become a theif with a bag of goods--have fun but remember when you lie down with dogs you get fleas !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 26, 2000.

I tend to lean Joels direction on this one. I have never been involved with HFH, and there is a good reason for that. I feel that much of what is going on with housing difficulties in the US has to do with handouts, building regulation, and lack of property rights. It drives me absolutely nuts that we prevent people from building their own house by making laws so stringent to do so that it pushes poor people out of the home market, and then we turn around and throw them stop gaps like HFH and other programs.

Government supported handout programs are what have resulted in the situation being like it is. Recently in our town, we installed an anti-camping ordinance, to stop poor people from living in trailers on private property. By far the whole purpose here is to keep people homeless so that they can be "helped" by the government. So the government gets into the "help" out the private charities game, which ultimately ends up as a do it our way or else proposition.

It is all about money people. Programs like HFH are just ways to keep the masses happy, so that they don't rebel and dissolve the chains that bind them. The real solution to housing problems is deregulation, but deregulation will create a devaluation of real estate. And that is where the rubber meets the road. The current real estate market is artificially created, especially in states like California, where regulation has become so entrenched. If you live in a less regulated state and wonder why those Californians get so much money for their property, it is because we are all held hostage by one another. You see when people are prevent by zoning ordinances from building on their land, or they are forced into a more expensive house by building regs, then their neighbors house goes up in value. Do you honestly think their neighbor is going to lose that value to see tham get a roof over their head? No, they'd rather go volunteer for Habitat, and "help" poor people.

Little Bit farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 26, 2000.


I had to come back and say that this is a great thread, because I got to know you better Joel. I had to go look up Koinonia on the net, because I didn't even know they were ever a part of HFH. I find myself now wondering what took you from there to here? Life is so wonderful as it leads us on so many different paths, takes us to so many different places, and once in a while we even get to hit a dead end.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 26, 2000.


Boy, Little Bit Farm, you ask tuff questions. Why did I go to Koinonia ? I couldn't remember till I thought a couple of hours. I was Lost ! Not physically lost--emotionally lost. Clarence Jordan took one look at me and knew he had his work cut out for him. It was a farm and I'm a farmer. The people are considered "nuts" and so are homesteaders, so, I fit in well. Milliard Fuller and Clarence Jordan were both inspirational speakers and men of strong faith. I learned much from both of them. I believe Clarence was probably a prophet in bib overalls. After Milliard was ask to leave Koinonia I was torn so since the farm and HfH world headquarters are 10 miles apart than I stayed real close to both. In 1988, Millird ask me to build him three buses that could hold up to a 2800 mile journey. I did so with great pride. They would be transportation for 300 people to walk from Portland, Maine to Atlanta, Georgia and build 110 houses on the way. I did not intend to go with them. I went to see them off and they had no one to drive the third bus. I went back and packed a suitcase and I was off. I drove the lead bus the " Galactica" a 1960 International that I resurrected from a junkyard. When we returned most of the staff required a physciatrist. I felt like Moses must have felt, leading 300 grumbling christians, to a promised land. There used to be a plaque in HfH headquarters with a quote from me about that long summer-"Do Your Job ! Think About How You Feel Later"

I was lost again and Clarence had died sometime back and Koinonia had changed. The answers would not be found at Koinonia again. I got a job with a pipeline contractor and buried myself in 14 hour work days. It has been years since I reflected on my life at those times. I miss Clarence and I miss Milliard when he was just a homesteader. I'm sorry his life has taken him from a volunteer to a CEO. He is a quite brilliant man and fun to talk to.

P.S. Soni, I live on less than $ 9000.00 a year and you really don't need to make money to volunteer or build houses. It was much better when we did for Love I also wish you much love in your endeavor ! Make it Happen !

I realize that this is not as good as " Why I went to the pond and why I came back " by Thoreau

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 27, 2000.


Joel - So glad to here that you do indeed enjoy life. After being married for 12 years (and counting) to a man with chronic clinical depression, I am instantly sorrowful for anyone who seems (on the surface, anyway) to lack this day-to-day joy that the rest of us seem to take for granted. Very happy to be wrong about you.

I agree with the posting that said that we create the problem only to solve it in a different way and I know full well that what I am doing is only a stopgap measure that is only neccessary because of the way regulation screws anyone not able to build their dream home out of pocket. Yes, I would prefer to change society's mores and mindset so that anyone who wanted to could build their own home without oppressive gvt. intervention, but I also know that while this is a noble goal, and perhaps achievabele eventually, unfortunately the people here and now who have taken their share of gvt. funded carnal knowledge need my help. Would I prefer to be un-needed? Definately. Like the police and the ER techs, I would love to have nothing to do, but I learned a long time ago that 'tis better to do what needs doing while trying to ensure that it won't need doing in the future than to leave the victims of the present situation hanging while I go off and try to change the world for their great-grandchildren. At least this way, if we do change the world for the better, there is a chance that my aid now will increase the ability of those great-grandchildren to take advantage of that new world successfully because they had a home and a sense of being able to exist on the same level as those around them, rather than being disposable in a community that will throw away anything that doesn't work or fit in at the moment, regardless of its possible future worth.

Perhaps I've got my head in the clouds, perhaps I'm just doing this for me. I do have other motives besides altruism in my choice of service: I hope to learn more thoroughtly how to build my own home more, I hope to save all of the living allowance for part of a downpayment on my own homestead (living off my husbands income), I hope to spend the next year or two doing something that I enjoy (const. and remodeling), and I hope to wean myself from my career of the past 11 +/- years that makes me keep vampire hours and tears up my body. For me, the fact that I will be helping others, regardless of how unneccessary their plight, is just so much extra, bonus motivation to help me stick with it. All that and so much more, seems to be my current attitude toward this undertaking.

The fact of the matter is, this position is the perfect thing to happen to me at the perfect time. I am neither idealistic in my expectations of how much I can do to prevent or help people out of poverty (as one post alluded too, people don't change just because their circumstances do), nor do I feel that the(se) term(s) of service will be sweetnes and light. But, I've made new friends, I feel good about my new "job", I'll be doing some good for some folks who need it and I'll be having fun despite the challenges and setbacks. From what I've gathered from this forum and from those around me, you can hardly ask for more out of life.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 27, 2000.



Good for you, Soni ! Yes, you will learn to build a house in two years. Make them move you around. Don't stay on one aspect of construction too long. Move from foundation, to framing, to finish, to roofing. Keep a note pad and write your new found skills down for future reference.

On the 88 walk we built 5 or 10 houses around Raliegh/Durham--that is a big Habitat chapter. The neat thing was instead of staying in a church or a armory the people took two "walkers" into their homes. I had the distinct privledge of staying with a widow that lived on an acerage at the foot of Mount Airy(about 45 miles away). She insisted on having me because I had come from Koinonia. She was an inspired soul to say the least. I am sure she must still be active. Ask around, anyone might know her as her homestead is such a distinct location. I'm sorry but I have forgotten her name but I'll never forget the awesome view from her back porch.

On depression ? Due to the number of highly controversial subjects and political endeavors I take on, I can not say for sure that I am not slightly depressed. My joy comes from watching someone else succeed, from watching crops grow and winter months are hard on me. I am afraid you caught me during harvest, a very tiring time of year. Is it possible that you are reading the fatique in my letters ? Anyway, I hope that is all it is.

I remember my day of Epifany when I realized that all my hard work had not saved anyone. You may be able to move a mountain one rock at a time, I believe that is possible. However when a system is collapsing faster than you can can carry rocks to shore it up, than what ? I quess you do what you have said "Do what you can " ! Go have fun doing it and forget Joel's politics. If you have a big build than send me an invite and I'll come and bend some nails with you some day this fall. I'm about three hours from there. I'll swing a hammer and tell stories about how it all began. Take Care, Joel

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), August 27, 2000.


Joel, you never cease to intrigue me. I know that I have a tendancy to get right to the heart of things. Makes most people uncomfortable. I have always been this really empathetic person. It got me in lots of trouble when I was younger. I can't help it though, I am truly a people person. It's kind of funny because when people meet me they think I like crowds, but the truth is I am much more a one on one or small groups person. The problem is I am intense, one of those that people have to step back and get their space from. Consequently there are few people in the world that I am truly close to. My husband Joe and a few others. This is mostly due to the fact that I have high expectations I think. Most people these days don't want to get too close to anyone. They want many aquaintances, and they call them friends. I find it all interesting. Anyway, I don't know what started me on this subject, except to explain my nosiness. What I really want to say is that I hope that you find the answers you are looking for. I also want to assure you that they are out there. Of course, I am basically an optimist at heart. My mother says I am resilient. But I have a basic belief in the good things of life. I believe in God's eternal plan for man. I believe that all things work together for good to them that love the Lord and are called according to his purpose. Don't be lost, God is with you. Sometimes we have to be lost and all alone to really turn things over to Him. God Bless you!

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 27, 2000.


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