The good old days WERE good old days, but I wouldn't particularly want to go back. Of all the inventions, discoveries and conveniences available now, I think I appreciate most the shower. I rarely shower without saying or at least thinking "Thank You, Lord, for this shower. I really appreciate it." We have many, many things to thank Him for. In the physical realm, to name a few: a car that will get me to town without having to "blow the dirt out of the line" or fix a flat or two; also that I can park in our driveway and not a mile from home because of mud roads. Electric iron instead of sadirons heated on wood burner (even in summer) with no A/C or course, and not even fans because we didn't have electricity. Telephone (sometimes it is NOT a blessing!) The luxery of central air and heat. Gas cook stove instead of woodburner--we used it year around, canning almost everything we used in winter, also cooking for threshers. I never had to use washboard but my mom did. Dead last on my list--TV. We are so blessed to be able to own 40 acres, mostly timber and orchard and live in log house set about a quarter mile from the road. The rapid progress of medical knowledge means that our 42 yr. old son didn't die forty years ago, or more recently, that our 40 yr. old son is thriving after a total colectomy 4 yrs ago. I could make a list a mile long, but you get the idea. Oh, yeah, those trips to the outhouse and the old goose gander chasing you to and from! What do you all appreciate most?

-- Ruth Travous (bobtravous@email.com), August 30, 2000

Answers

Indoor plumbing. I don't think anything has done more to improve the quality of life for human, animal and vegetable.

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), August 30, 2000.

R.T.! yeppie! All those things are something to be thankful for but what about the times of big get-togethers? Neighbors had time to set and talk a spell with you. Helpin out with chores when somebody was ailin or just to bring a bushel of tomaters up and even help gett'm ready to can. I barely remember the thrashin rings cuz i's jest a little kid then. I do remember the big dinners [noon meal] with the BIG table full of groceries. How about the wonder drug that saved lots of lives back in the 40's--Penacillin! If'n this old country boy hadn't had it well--i'd be skippin along on those streets of pure gold for the last 50 plus years! Yes! People sometimes gripe about how things are now-[and I'm one of'm too] but life is much better with all those modern medecines etc along with work savin devices-- nopee-believe i'll jest keep livin in the "here and now" rather than tryin to redo the past. Besides all that I'm jest too lazy to work like we did back then. Air conditionin is a must for me now. Thank the Lord for't. Thank the Lord that I can fix'm-for us and other people too. Matt. 24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), August 30, 2000.

most things medical i will keep but beyond that i could get rid of it all. yes i like plumbing, heating{do not use it},electric and so on but my goal is to phase all that out of our lives. now and again when the kids get alittle to ungrateful i go to the basement and hit all the breakers off in the house. shocks the crap out of them, makes them rely on themselves a little more and to work together. i feel modern conveniences are the down fall of our society most are used wronge ..tv babysitter..phone why visit just call...and so on. i am on the computer now but it is not in my house its in the office and in order to play w/ the big boys we need it.

i only wish i grew up w/out all this stuff i think i would be a totaly different person, for the better.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), August 30, 2000.

Electricity, in-door plumbing and the five-gallon plastic bucket.

-- Ken S. in TN (scharabo@aol.com), August 30, 2000.

I guess my appreciations are: for Smokeless Powder & brass cartridges, Air-tight stoves & refrigeration.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), August 30, 2000.

Renee, there is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE IN THROWING A BREAKER ONCE IN A WHILE & NOT "EVER" HAVEING THESE THINGS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED!!!!!!!! I for one grew up without most of these things & I praise God, now for them all!!!!! Many lives have been saved by the phone, electricty-- well you, who have not had those things-- know!!! I'm one who still likes to cook on a wood stove---but in WINTER! I like my oil lamps -- because I DON"T HAVE TO USE THEM ALL THE TIME! The out house is fine for when the electricty goes off for A FEW HOURS! Maybe it is my AGE - -but I'm sooo very thankful for electricty & all of the great things I enjoy because of it!!!!!!! The heat here has been OVER 100 degrees for several weeks/ we have set new records--I PRAISE GOD FOR AIR CONDITIONONG FOR MY SELF & ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE I KNOW! I guess even through it has been years that we did without most all of the things we now take for granted---I STILL REMEMBER LIVING TOTALLY WITHOUT THEM---------I'LL TAKE "WITH" ANYDAY!!!!!!! RUTH, THE GOOD OLD DAYS THANK GOD WERE WHEN I WAS "YOUNG"!!!!!!!! AT MY AGE NOW/(& health problems)-- I WOULD NOT WANT TO GO WITHOUT NOW!!!!! Thanks for the reminder of what we have & remembering what it was like to not have!!!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), August 30, 2000.

Freezers, well pump, and indoor plumbing. While I appreciate modern conveniences, I wouldn't mind living without most of them, but my husband isn't convinced. But then I look at things differently than most.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), August 30, 2000.

Toilet paper and electronic forums.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), August 30, 2000.

sonda, i do not want to sound the way i came across but at least you were able to live in a much simpler world.i willnever truley know what it was like but i sure do try. if i could convince the husband to disconnect everything i would,he thinks i am a nut for wanting to do all that extra work i think he is nuts not wanting to try! i guess this is just one more thing that makes us all different

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), August 30, 2000.

Without question, the internet (and tools to access it: PeeCee, Palm Pilots, WebTV, etc). It levels the playing field of knowledge for all, makes communication fast and efficient, and facilitates using all the knowledge and other inventions.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), August 30, 2000.

Renee, I understand about wanting to live a "simpler lifesyle" for you & your family---but when I grew up NO ONE HAD!!!!!!! So if someone's house was on fire--you had to let it burn instead of calling 911 & haveing a firetruck come!!!!! Your family is sick -- instead of sitting next to them & watching them die--you can call a doctor who has all kinds of modern tech & things to help! Instead of never seeing your family or hearing from them--we have modern cameras, phones, cars & planes, internet!!! Instead of not haveing enough food because of no ref. we all have usually more than enough to eat & share. It is a BIG DIFFERENCE IN CHOOSEING WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO DO WITHOUT & NO ONE HAVEING IT!!!!!! If you & anyone else CHOOSES to go without---I can understand that/ you choose to do "without" this or that---but if you want to do "with"---all you have to do is visit someone else who has!!!!!! I agree there are people who take advantage of lots of things--I also think there are people in this world who do not deserve children--because they think bringing them into this world is their only responsibility!! I admire you that you want to educate your children & them not take everything for granted! There were families I knew who had more children/ TO DO THE WORK BECAUSE THERE WERE NOT THE MODERN CONVIENCES--HAVEING MORE CHILDREN WAS NOT THE ANSWER/ (MY OPINION)! I grew up with my parents haveing 13 or more brothers & sisters to be the "work horses"!!! And my Grandmother dyeing & all the kids being scattered to who ever could take them in--& this was common! I prefer the modern conviences & haveing children because they are blessings from God! I think there are problems in every time we are rasied--but we think another time was "better", because we were not there & don't know what it REALLY was like! That is just my opinion & not necessarly right! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), August 30, 2000.

It's 104 degrees again today here. I vote for electricity for air conditioners and indoor plumbing. I grew up in the '50s and we didn't have AC until I was about 10 and then we got the swamp coolers. Didn't have cold air until I was 25. It was fine then because I didn't know better, now it would kill me.

-- Joe Cole (jcole@apha.com), August 30, 2000.

Probably the washing machine. Of course you'd have to have plumbing and electricity to use it, so I'd guess they would be included.

I saw a program on TV, talking about modern conveniences, and they said more than anything, everyone having air conditioning has changed our society. People use to sit on front porches and talk to neighbors. Now they're in the house with nothing to do, so they watch TV. Hence, TV as a baby sitter for kids. Most people don't even know who live next door to them. Even cities are different because of it. Parents and children aren't outside, don't know their neighbors, and gangs take over the streets. High rises are built, because you can now keep those metal monsters cool for office workers. People "live" in their cars, because what's the hurry of getting somewhere, when the car has air conditioning. More gas consumption. Longer commutes. Air conditioning has had quite a few effects that we don't really think about. We have it and it is nice, but technology should be a tool and comfort, not our master.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), August 30, 2000.

I'll have to agree with Ruth about the showers -- I can live without just about anything else if I have to, but even in a remote cabin I would set up some way to have a shower! Sonda is right, too, that we are blessed to be able to choose what we do without, and can get it back if we want. Though, Sonda, when your Grandmother died, and her children were dispersed to whoever could take them, wasn't that possibly better than the government stepping in and dispersing them wherever THEY choose to?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), August 30, 2000.

Hot running water from the tap Hot running water from the tap, hot running water from the tap!!!!!!! And you are correct Kathleen.One caseworker told me once that siblings had no choice as to who their brothers and sisters are and therefore, do not need to be placed together!That is just one of their social work ideas. Dear Renee, please

have a will for your precious ones and who you would want to raise them for your own peace of mind...even tho you may never need it, and God Bless you.

-- Norma Lucas (trooper806@webtv.net), August 30, 2000.

Oh, this is a tough one. I appreciate technology, but in someways our society allows technology to control it. It seems to me that less technology breeds stronger people. Too much technology makes people lazy and useless. I lean toward less technology. But I guess my favorite piece of technology is the refrigerator freezer. To me this is the most truly useful appliance. It protects us against food born disease. Refrigerators are not absolutely necessary, but they are very nice to have.

I say reduce your technological dependence if possible, and don't let it control you. I would instantly live with no technology if I had too. I think it is a mistake to think that it will necessarily always be available in this world of change. So enjoy your electric lights, but keep those oil lamps. Be happy in your shower, but get a solar shower too, etc... Most importantly make sure you have a pure source of food, and don't be a slave to the grocery store.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), August 30, 2000.

Indoor running water, and the fridge. When we go primitive camping for a weekend or a week, it is the lack of water close at hand that is a pain--one event had it a mile away! You had to THINK when you used it, how to get several uses from it. We even caught the melted ice water from the cooler that held our veggies and milk (so it was clean, no meat juices, etc.) to wash dishes in. 'N the kids really appreciated hot showers when they got home. And the ability to keep food cool and safe to eat...conveniently. NICE.

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), August 30, 2000.

I think it would be either the water pump, or the washing machine. I have lived for years without running water, plumbing, electricty, etc. One place didn't have ANY water, so we had to haul it in 55 gallon barrels, and wrestle them off of the truck, into the house, talk about a workout!! Another place had an artesian well, it was an open well about 4 feet across, and I always worried that my son would fall in it and drown. The water had to be hauled uphill in buckets, even when I was 9 months pregant, winter or summer. Water is so necessary, and in those situations, clean, drinkable water was precious. Often, meals were planned around whether or not we had enough water to make something. Baths were taken once or twice a month, if that. I wouldn't have minded if there was only a hand pump by the sink in the house, though. Gardening is also a lot more challenging when you can only use old dishwater to water it with. I really didn't mind doing without the other 'conveniences'. You learn to get up with the sun, and you cluster around the lamp on the table in the evening rather than dispersing to the corners of the house after supper. We had a lot more quality family time in those days. We still have an outhhouse, and I for one, like it better. It is more discreet, and doesn't need the endless cleaning like an indoor toilet does. We heat with wood, and I like that,too. We have solar elecricty, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we didn't have it. I think that a lot of our present dysfunctional society is due to having so many modern conveniences.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@transport.com), August 30, 2000.

That's a very tough question to narrow it down to one item. I suppose that it would be the harnessing of electricity and its multitude of uses, whether by AC current or DC and modern storage batteries. At the same time, I can live for a time without it if I need to. Unlike many of you I'm not using air-conditioning though I have a central air system. I just don't want to plunk down the money for the bills it brings. I enjoy electricity in the form of 12 volts for starting my diesel tractor via modern storage batteries. This sure beats hand cranking. Also electricity allows for telephone communication, the Net, television for news, education, and entertainment, and the instant light when I go from room to room. Thank you Mr. Tesla, Mr. Edison, and others.

Like "hoot", modern medicine is right up there and probably should be in the number one spot. I'm told that I was ill as a baby, and when no proper diagnosis could be determined, I was injected regularly with penicillin until the ills went away. The doctor always figured that it saved my life. I've been healthly every since, so I guess it worked. Modern medicine allowed my brother a by-pass, my father cataract surgery and mending of a broken hip, and eased another brothers cancer death. While the cancer was said to have given no pain, other meds eased his discomfort. Modern medicine leads me down the pathway to a healthy and ripe old age of ??

With religion in the United States we are not only given "freedom of choice", but "freedom from" if we so choose. The same applies to which items and conveniences we choose to have or do without for whatever reason. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness pretty well says it all.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), August 30, 2000.

I say Democracy, and agree with Notforprint. All of the things mentioned before, meds, elec., toilet paper, AC, refridgerater, would have been harder to invent, and nearly impossible to market effectively to the people at large were it not for our unique style of govt. In many less perfect (my opiniion) societies, helpful inventions are often commandeered for the use of the rich and priviledged and only are available to the underclasses when, and if, the ruling party says so. True, market forces often mimic this in miniature (high initial price, followed by lower cost as the supply approaches the demand) but only in a free market, demacratic society are they universally available to all takers from the get go, excepting military stuff. Without the gvt. supported World's Fair electric extravaganza, electrification would not have been anywhere near a swift and complete as it was. Ditto nearly all breakthrough technologies,which are often govt. assisted through grants, subsidies, etc, like vaccines, county health clinics, computers in school, school lunches (and the running water that serves them, et al), etc. That's my opinion, and although I agree that our country has it's share of foibles, I don't see too many of us lining up to get out any time soon!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), August 30, 2000.

I appreciate all of 'it'! It, being the right to earn an honest dollar, In a free world, however depreciated! What do I miss the most?. I miss running thru the grasses, without fear of lime diease. I miss basking in the sun without thinking about cancer. I miss not being able to send my kid to the store, without wondering if he/she will be kidnapped, by some deranged person who was just let out of jail. I miss a world that didn't fear guns (they were for hunting). I miss the world I grew up in, that I wish my children, could have known.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), August 30, 2000.

i like all the new stuff. i rember the old days flys blowing the meat and butter in the well and 4 mile walk to school. bob in s.e.ks.

-- Bob Condry (bobco@hit.net), August 30, 2000.

Vacuum cleaners, stereos, air conditioners.

-- Hannah Maria Holly (hannahholly@hotmail.com), August 31, 2000.

Y'all are forgettin' about duct tape, I reckon.

-- Mike O (olsonmr@yahoo.com), August 31, 2000.

Birth Contol pills, and other prophylactics. Especially my vasectomy!

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoffjoe@yahoo.com), August 31, 2000.

Not to mention Countryside! Thanks Belangers! This is way too much fun! I'm just learning so much here!

-- Sandy (smd2@netzero.net), September 01, 2000.

Toilet / tissue paper, indoor plumbing, the light bulb, and refrigeration top my list in that order.

-- Eric in TN (ems@nac.net), September 01, 2000.

Well in a tangible sense, I'd probably have to say the Internet, since I am doing without much of what others have mentioned. Yeah, temps over 100 for a week might make AC tempting, but getting used to the AC makes the heat even worse when you have no choice but to deal with it. I'd rather live with nature than isolate (and insulate) myself from it.

Fridges are nice, but in this heat my propane fridge isn't trustworthy. I have a bunch of eggs in it--it's been too hot to light the stove to cook them, but I don't rely on it for keeping much food for long-term. I try to get foods that won't spoil.

Several people have mentioned showers, and how they thank God for them. Walking down into the hollow for a shower under the small waterfall is truly a spiritual experience. Granted I'll not be doing that in the winter!

Anyhow, living without many things can give one time to reflect on this world and our own place in it. I'm not saying that everybody should live this way, but I do think most people would have a better outlook if they gave it a serious try for more than a week's camping out.

With all of that said, the one thing that isn't tangible that I will never, can never, give up is modern knowledge.

Penicillin and other modern medicines are wonderful, but I read a rather convincing article some years ago that said the understanding of the need for sanitation and the way infectious diseases spread, and the understanding of nutrition have done more for longevity and quality of life for the average person than all medicines combined.

Even most heirloom' plants date to the late 1800's to mid-1900's. That's well after plant breeders had a good understanding of genetics. Animal husbandry has benefitted greatly from the same understanding. With even a hint of genetic understanding I could, if need be, breed wild plants up to provide the same increase in utility in a decade or less as it took our ancestors millennia to do my random chance and usually misguided seed selection.

It is our understanding of the world we live in that I value the most.

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), September 01, 2000.

Guns, rototillers and mute buttons! GL!

-- Brad (Homefixer@SacoRiver.net), September 02, 2000.

The hot shower!!! I've been without a kitchen sink now for more than 2 years (I don't want to risk getting the strawbales wet since it's all unfinished on the inside as yet, moreover there's wiring that needs to be done next, and if we put in a kitchen sink we'll be SO comfortable that we won't EVER finish this house...), and I sure do look forward to a real kitchen again.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), September 02, 2000.

Coffee makers, flush toilets, electric drills and rabies vaccine.

-- Doreen (liberty546@hotmail.com), September 03, 2000.

Indoor plumbing, A/C, antiperspirant (I don't care if it isn't healthy) & most of all contact lenses.

-- Lenore (archambo@winco.net), September 03, 2000.

Very interesting thread. And if HOMESTEADERS have these different views, just imagine what others would say!

But I cant help but wonder... would some of these answers change if, say, the original question stipulated starting from NOTHING, just stepping out of the cave, as it were?

Either way, Id vote for running water and refrigeration (even though my beer does stay pretty cool in the cellar).---Jd

-- Jd (belanger@tds.net), September 04, 2000.

As someone who has uncorrected vision of 20/200+, I would have to say that my vote goes for the invention of glasses. I would have a much more limited world if it were not for them.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), September 05, 2000.

Colleen, that is true -- my eyes are about the same, and my glasses are so much a part of me that I didn't even think about them. I guess if I could only have one modern invention, I would have to give up my hot showers and keep my glasses! it would be hard to never be able to see clearly again -- though, count our blessings, at least we can see!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 05, 2000.

After reading others' respongses, I'd like agree with: hot showers, glasses, rabies vaccine and mute buttons.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), September 05, 2000.

After reading all the responses, I couldn't help but think that our kids view of the good ole days may well include Countryside Forum and slow modem connected PCs instead of pocket terminals and smart clothes. Time marches on.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), September 05, 2000.

Sorry if I'm giving a bit too much info here, but in light of JumpOff Joe's response, I think I'll say it anyhow -- TAMPAX -- who (of the women here, anyway) would want to go back to what they used to use??? Sorry -- not me!!!

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), September 05, 2000.