I shoot film at the boardwalk and love to start conversations with all kinds of people. Sometimes though the people are just TTTOOOooo cool for words(or so they stink, I mean think) and they come on like it's a big bother for them to say hi back or even acknowlege you're even there. Creeps. What do you do when that happens? (I can't say what I do because we'd have to go back to the Immature thread). James

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Answers

I say, "How dare you, you son of a bitch? Who are you to pretend I'm not cool?"

Or else I don't.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

My mother taught me not to talk to strangers and I generally don't. I have to be nice to strangers all day at work. I'm civil to folks in my spare time but usually am not interested in idle chit chat. James, if you walked up to me with a camera and started small-talking me up I'd probably think you were the creep. It's not because I think I am cool; it's because I just don't want to be bothered.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

James, I might say "hi" back, but I might not. I might be on the boardwalk because I want to people-watch while I'm alone with my thoughts. Like Jill, I have to be nice to strangers in my job, and sometimes the last thing I want to do is deal with more of that. But if I'm in a more congenial mood, I'm likely to chat with you for quite a while.

However, and I kind of hate to bring this up, because you're probably a nice guy, but a lot of women *do not* like being approached by strange men. We have good reason for that, too - check your local news for examples. We're not necessarily jerks or creeps if we don't make eye contact and move quickly away. We may just have had a really bad experience we don't want to repeat. No offense, please.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I have to go with Jill and Tracey on this one.

It's altogether possible that they don't want to be filmed. Maybe they think you are steling their souls with the camera. ;) Maybe they just don't like what they are wearing that day and don't feel like showing it off. Seriously, most of us are aware that once you're filmed, your image and voice can be used without your permission for ANYthing, including some things which you might not be happy about. They have no way of knowing if you're the next "Blair Witch Project" or low-budget porny director hoping for spontaneous and unpaid local color or something for some scenes. And if they've ever seen anything like "Candid Camera", "Real People", "World's Stupidest People, Caught On Film", "Big Brother", "Road Rules" or "Real World" even once, they've learned the power of editing to make you look like a total arse for the amusement of others.

Even if they aren't film shy, maybe they have something on their minds, don't feel like chatting, didn't hear you in the first place, are in a hurry to get to a date, are power walking for exercise, are mute, etc.

Maybe it is as simple as this: they don't feel comfortable being approached by a stranger, esp. and older male stranger. Most unpleasant anecdotes I've heard from my friends involve them letting down their 'street smart' guard to talk to someone who looked harmless and nice. It only takes a few incidents of robbery, inappropriate touching or the like happening to your or your friends for you to decide it isn't worth being incautious.

I'd suggest not expecting anything from anyone, that way when someone does say 'hi' it is a bonus and when someone chooses not to interact with you, you don't get angry and unhappy about it. After all, they probably didn't anticipate being on camera when they left their house that morning and you definitely know that they don't exist solely for your amusement, I'm sure! Just because someone doesn't do what you want them to do or play along with your innocent pastime, that doesn't make them a creep. Unfriendly, busy, unadventurous or wary, maybe. But not automatically a creep. Unless they insult you or throw a rock at you. THEN they are creeps.

I think that your hobby/pastime does sound like a lot of fun, and a lot of my friends make films. As a wild suggestion, maybe you could encourage people to come to you by putting up a sign asking for volunteers to come and chat on film rather than approaching them. Let them come to you, and you'll get approached by camera-comfortable people who will be eager to talk to you and be filmed and no one will get grouchy with you for thrusting a camera in their nose and asking that they talk to you.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

zzzzzzzzzzzz*SNORE*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

*tag ear*

GOT one! Ten points for me.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

So What? What are you going to do? Kick me of GWEN's Boards? I don't recall posting anything that's harmful to anyone. And is it legal for you to track someone's ISP on site that's not yours and didn't give you permission to do so?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I don't care if it's legal -- I just want to know if it's possible. I didn't think anyone could check ISPs but me. Milla, how do you do it?

I'm gonna go with the topic title here and vent a little. I was just now reading the Hissyfit forum. Apparently I'm stupid, horrifying, and anti-feminist because I changed my last name to my husband's when I got married.

Boy, I tell ya, I learn new stuff online every day.

God, I hate judgmental know-it-alls, whether they call themselves feminists or not.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Gwen, you forgot the bit about buying into mindless patriarchy because the kids have his name, too.... Why, I'll bet you wear a bra and lipstick and shave your legs! How stupid can a person get?!

James, personally, I'd find an approach like that -- a guy with a camera trying to start conversation -- to be an invasion of my privacy, annoying, intrusive, pushy, and potentially threatening. There are many reasons why you might not be getting all these different kinds of people all excited about talking to you, you know. You might even want to consider that, yes, it MIGHT be a big bother for them to say "hi" back. I mean, if I was in a hurry to get somewhere or preoccupied with bad news or just plan in a bad mood, some guy getting pissy because I didn't say "hi" to him would likely be the straw to break the camel's back. Chill.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

(And, for the record, I was being TOTALLY sarcastic in my response to Gwen. I am fully aware that one can be a feminist/humanist regardless of name, marital/parental status or what one wears....) Perhaps it's time for a Mindless Patriarchy topic...?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Forgive me if I'm missing something but... some guy lurking around on the boardwalk with a video camera trying to get people to say hi and getting upset if they don't?? You like to film people?? You are probably a nice guy but come on! If I am at (insert social environment here) with a video camera and try to get people to say hi, they will probably be suspicious, let alone a public place where Ms. Davis is walking to forget about her bad day at work and watch the waves. Think about it. You may think it is a nice hobby/pastime, but people are going to have reservations about the whole scene. My advice, do that window shopping that you covet so much (my condolences Mrs. Mickelson) a little more tactfully, and that doesn't mean use a hidden camera!!

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I think I see an unasked question and I need to say right up front that I did not hack your site, Gwen. I didn't even think about it. Promise. But I will say that IP addresses and ISP identifiers get logged eight ways to Sunday all over the Net. Computers send out unique identifying info. Some sites make it obvious by using a script that will read this info...these are the ones that have comments that say something like "hi, I see you're using a Windows browser on a Dell laptop from yourinternetproviderhere.com" or whatever. I've been online for ten years, since before the web was graphical. Since before the web. Since before GUIs, for that matter. You pick up on things. If you eat dinner with your primary ISP providers several times a month, you pick up even more. (And my primary ISP is not, of course, web-based...nor is it my work account.) You do not have to do anything even remotely illegal or unethical. Illegal or unethical would include things like stalking / harrassing (several Internet- related cases have been filed) or using credit information that isn't yours. Duh.

The question asked ducks the more important one, though- -how do you pick up on something 'odd' in the first place? There's something cryptographers call a 'fist' (because it used to refer to Morse coders), and everyone has a 'fist' or style signature. It cannot be hidden, because, like the back of your head, you don't have the perspective to see it. It is what tips people off in the first place so that they get curious enough to poke around. And when you bust someone on their style signature, they never believe that they are actually that transparent and get pissed off. It comes through in subtle things such as word choice, topics of interest, hot buttons, reading level, interaction/social behavior, etc. Example: I guarrantee that if I posted here under ten different pseudonyms, using multiple jargons, spellings, genders, typing styles and so on, you'd still know it was me. I know I have a 'fist', but I will never be able to get adequate perspective to hide it. It's particularly obvious if your audience has seen forty or fifty more skilled pseudonymous gameplayers before. I suggest trying to troll alt.2600 if you don't believe me. :)

I've satisfied my curiosity adequately, shall we say.

.

.

.Apparently I'm stupid, horrifying, and anti-feminist because I changed my last name to my husband's when I got married.

Of course you're not. It was your choice, and a valid one. If the critics don't agree with your choice, they do not have to make the same one should they ever be in the position where they are asked to marry someone. It would be stupid, horrifying, and anti-feminist if you let other people dictate to you what is best for you. I'm glad you don't. It would also be anti- feminist (in that you'd be implying that you don't have the courage of your own convictions enough to speak for yourself as an individual) if you felt the need to gang up on someone from behind the protection of an opinionated 'gang' online. Which you also don't do.

It happens all the time, especially online where you (Ms. Hypothetical You, in this case) can hide behind a computer and forget that the text on a screen actually represents another human being with thoughts and feelings--just like you. People who feel disenfranchised, ignored, powerless, bullied and/or angry offline are thrilled when they are accepted online. It is easy to find groups of people who share some of the same interests and ideas and they happily become part of a very inclusive group. When the group they get a lot of positve reinforcement from seems to be threatened by the influx of Nonstandard Groupthink or Not-Socially-Nicey-Nice behavior, it is not uncommon for the group to defend itself by being bullying and exclusionary if they feel they can get away with it...often they mete out the same abuse they had handed out to them when they didn't have the perceived power of a group standing behind them. It is sad, and it is worth noting that it is likely that very few, if any, of your critics would have the nerve to be rude and judgemental to you if you were sitting down over a couple of cups of coffee face to face.

A true feminist makes choices for herself, based on her personal opinions and guidelines, and stands by them. You were an adult when you chose to take your husband's surname--you were not forced to--and that is a valid choice whether or not someone else wishes to view it that way. Hell, you could choose to call yourself "Rabbit 12" legally if you wanted to go through the trouble of changing it and that, too, would be a valid choice.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

And aren't there plenty of people who want and like to be filmed? Everytime there's a news crew out there's usually tons of people mugging for the cameras. Just focus on those people and leave the rest of us alone.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Hey, I would be able to tell it's you without all that IP crap. No matter what name you used, I doubt you could keep the posts to an acceptable length. Can you look into the best ways to avoid wasting bandwith? Now that would be productive.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I'm sorry your attention span is akin to that of a goldfish, but that does not instill in me the obligation to dumb down my responses to please you. Can you just skip over my posts without being personally insulting? Gee, Beav, I think you CAN. Because I am not going to ask how high when you demand that I jump. Also, this is old territory re- hashed, and I'm betting that the brick wall is getting a dent in it the size and shape of your head.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

There you go, short and to the point! I applaud you.

Now: 'Can you just skip over my posts without being personally insulting?' I have been trying but I get that carpal tunnel thing.

Next: 'Can you just skip over my posts without being personally insulting?' Uhhh, 'attention span is akin to that of a goldfish' and 'brick wall is getting a dent in it the size and shape of your head'. Something about those that have glass IP addresses shouldn't throw stones...

Finally: 'Also, this is old territory re- hashed'. Are you saying this has been brought up before by other people and then I come on here and within a matter of days see this as an issue too? Yet, it's everyone else's responsibility to skip over your posts? Please try to at least consider the point of view of others.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

So, this topic has become Insult Central?

Kd, I'm sure if Gwen -- you know, the person who runs and moderates these boards... i.e. not you -- thought Milla's posts were problematic, she would've said something weeks and months ago.

If I was as quick as Milla -- both in wit as well as actual typing speed -- you can bet I'd post BigLongMongo things too.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

So what you're saying is that you have nothing better to do than look at ISPs? Who cares? I tried to read through your post(s). Really, I did, but I just couldn't. Nobody is asking you to "dumb down" your posts. Just shorten them by...oh, I don't know, say 4 or 5 paragraphs. Is that so hard for you to do?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

No, I'm saying you brought it up before. Though I will go along your protestations that 'you' didn't if you really want me to. Doesn't make any difference to me.

This is indeed Gwen's forum and I would gladly tailor my posting style if Gwen asked me to and if she found it offensive. It would not hurt my feelings if she asked me to do so as she goes to a lot of trouble to host this forum and her website, and to repay all her work by doing something that causes her difficulty would be insensitive of me. IMHO.

Much like it would be insensitive to expect total strangers to scramble to fulfill my whims...say, if I bought a camera and got mad if people didn't want to be filmed or play nice. Or if I decided I didn't like a certain fellow poster's style and demanded that they change because I harped on it and made bitchy comments about it repeatedly, just so I could try to have my preferences catered to.

But no one here would be that rude, I'm sure.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

To answer your question--on occasion, I even get paid--very well indeed--to look at/up certain things. It's not that difficult nor time-consuming. Whereas I prefer to be more on the creative side of things, true, I have found that being inquisitive and being well- informed about how things work has always proven, in the past, to be a good way to spend my time. :) I highly recommend it.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

You go, Milla. I have no idea why people think it's acceptable to complain about the length of your posts. It's rude and it's so stupid - if they don't want to read them, they don't have to. Sheesh.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Oh Milla, why are you getting so defensive? Maybe you should go back and read through your posts. You just might notice that you do tend to bet a tad bit long winded in them and that nobody really responds to them. Nobody is asking you to leave. Nobody is asking you not to post. Nobody has called you names or insulted you. All we ask is that you shorten them. Why do you feel the need to write War and Peace length posts? Just curious.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I'm not being defensive, as that would require me to feel I need to defend myself. I don't. Instead, I'm calmly telling you that I am not going to tailor my style simply because you don't like it. Unless, as already noted, the 'you' in that sentence happens to be Gwen, as this is her forum and I appreciate her creative efforts.

If you feel the need to argue about it when I say I am not inclined to give you your way, then that is your perogative, but that is also why I am telling you that you are beating your head up against a brick wall.

I was not, as you seem to think, telling you that you had a brick wall for a head. I don't know you personally, but I find that unlikely, at least in the literal sense.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Milla, if it didn't bother you, then you wouldn't bother responding to any of the posts about your posting length at all. Seems to me you just like to get in the last word.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Bwa! Flame stage:Oranges and apples, the comparing of.

Hey, let's just say YOU had the last word if it will make you happy. :) You can even say my mother wears Army boots and dresses me funny. You've expressed your grievance and been heard. Am I supposed to get upset about it? I thought that I gave you the attention and responses you seemed to want, since you were becoming repetitive. I can go back to just ignoring you most of the time if you prefer.

To be on the safe side, let's try this. Let it be known that Frankiewhatever had the last word. I am completely and totally wrong and Frankie si completely and totally right and we should all do whatever it is that Frankie wants, whenever he asks, at all times. There you go. Good luck enforcing that, but, hey, if it makes you happy, I'm pleased to oblige.

I know. It will go down in my Permanent Record, I am sure. I am so saddened not to have every single person on the planet giving me their unrestrained approval, especially Frankie, and I will think about it for days and obsess over it and cry and stuff, but I suppose I will recover in due time. No need to send flowers.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I don't mean to be picky, but Milla, doesn't your last post show that you really had the last word?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Funny you should care, 'Suki'. :)

"Last word" is a bullying tactic to shut up your "opponent" when you run out of things to say or sense you might lose an argument. Hence the sarcasm. That playground trick doesn't work in the real world...and it was still an attempt to control when and how I choose to express myself. If 'Frankie' wants to make an issue out of it because it is important to 'Frankie', then he can have the Official Last Word, and so be it, but I'm not playing according to someone else's childish rules or diddling with semantics. Like it or lump it. :) Thanks for asking, though, it's sweet that you care.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

I guess Milla fell for the bait and had the last word after all, right Suki?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

People! Please!

Yes, Milla's posts are often very long. No, that is not a good reason for me to kick her off the boards. Fighting about it won't help, and neither will e-mailing me and asking me to "boot" her. If someone's posts are too long, do what I do: don't read them. Or just skim through them, looking for your own name.

All this cat-fighting is just taking away from the real issue, which is me. Focus, people. Focus.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Yeah, I don't read the extremely long posts either. Since this site is all about Gwen, then...When, you rock!

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

A couple of things here. I was not in any way trying to moderate this board. I was trying to avoid poor Gwen having to get involved. She has enough to worry about what with the IP stealing and site hacking issues. She really doesn't need to add the 'too long post' issue. Gwen, it is about you, it's always about you and I'm sorry that I for one, lost site of that. Hope I didn't step on toes. Frankie, did YOU steal my IP address. I just ask because Milla keeps responding to you about things that I said and I thought maybe she was looking at IPs instead of names when responding to posts. Oh well. I am glad that you got the last word though, or did you Suki? Either way, I thought it was a good use of bold.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Milla's long, thoughtful, insightful posts are one of the things I enjoy most about this site. I think we need more like her around these parts. The resulting discussions and disagreements would be so much more reasonable, tactful, and witty.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2000

Word. Computers come with easy-to-operate 'delete' keys and scrollbars for a reason.
Fighting sucks. It's purely because of this that, as policy, I avoid all message boards. This was the only one I'd ever contributed to, and I had been looking fwd to returning to it after the current busy-ness in my life subsides. Now, however...I just don't know. I'm afraid that a few impatient and unkind folk have soured it for me.
Oh well.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2000

Okay, I've reread this thread and I realize that my flippant post wasn't funny and didn't help matters at all. Let me put it another way: If you don't like someone's posts because they're too long or too vulgar or too misspelled, simply don't read them. If you don't like another poster, either keep it to yourself or start a private e-mail war with that person. But don't e-mail me and tell me that you dislike certain people, because I'm not going to kick off posters just because other posters want me to. This isn't Survivor, people. There's no voting. Unless a person gets booted from this forum, he or she has the same rights here as anyone else.

For further information on what will hopefully be my hands-off moderating policy, please read the new topic called "Hints and Tips [...]"

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2000

I'd like to put my 10 cents in..........First, a little chear! let's put the "Gwen" back in Gwentown! Second, how long have I been hanging here at Gwentown, Gwen? A while, I guess. I like Milla's and Klee's and all the other long posters (Mary Ellen)posts as long as they're witty. Gwen's kinda like the sheriff Matt Dillon, and Milla is sometimes like Miss Kitty...she holds back the girls if you're a chump, but if you talk to her nice, she's got a lot to say and that's OK by me (Festus being portrayed by me at the moment. evidently.) Third, I think if you're a Blow-in, and you're negative to our fellow posters, not in an obviously good natured way, I'd be inclined to rally around that person (especially if they were not a Blow-in, like Milla) like those Musk Oxen do in the frozen north. Wow, I sound like I'm on Vicadin....woohoo! - lot of imagery there folks.--- Now, I'd like to end with a cheer....GOOOOOOOO GWEN!

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2000

mijlla i know how you feel cuz sometimes i think people ignore my posts to. cheer up!!!floosie :)

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2000

I prefer to think of myself as Sheriff Matt Dillon with y'all as the tiny dolls in my secret dollhouse, actually.

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2000

Actually, floosie, that didn't occur to me and wouldn't bother me if it had. But, golly, thanks for the comiseration.

Gwen, at least you didn't say that we were like your very own "*NSYNC puppets". They are scary as hell.

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2000

Well folks here is a twist for you: a so call friend comes into our home & accepts my hubby and I hospitalty,( I am a writer( just sold a story) artist, silversmith, had beauty shop in pass, so that means I had license.I also have copyright on a craft product.( My hubby is not well, so I do everthing & have p.o.Att.) three weeks later he calls sheriff , to come give me sanity test. My hubby & I have a good laugh about that...And S. left saying I had nothing worry about.I was more SANE than him. 10 mos. goes by & the man moves 22 miles from us. One day him & wife drive up in yard & says , we come get D. to show him out new house. LEFT ME STANDING THERE. Before he leaves he gives me phone # for D. get hold of him anytime he wants,,, Only phone # he NEVER returns his calls. Then he tells me he met old friend of his & my hubby, and wants him go ballgame next friday nite to meet up with him, I tall him D. can not go ballgames as he is Paranoid, & delusional," WELL HE JUST SEE ABOUT THAT, " HE SAID: So next Monday I went see my att. & only to find out thats WHO he taken him to meet, & my hubby does not know the att. ( I known my hubby for 30 yrs, been married for 7 yrs) And he was going go behind my back & get another power-of-Att.!!!! THEN FOLKS: Here one that put me in bed , with blood pressure 179/100 HE CALLED WELFARE ON ME" Wanted know if D. wanted change his P.O. Att.??? DHS man ask me LEAVE MY HOME WHILE HE TALK TO HIM, I SAID "NO" My hubby had done told me after comeing from seeing there house. This man had ASK him bunch questions... How long we been married,How long he had known me, How much money he had, how much I have, Did ( you) D. buy that car for her? ( I brought my own car) This man sat me up on phone #. This man in insurance salemans. Folks if you have any suggestions please email me. coolrb40@yahoo.com

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2000