Country Lifestyles (Small Farmers vs Factory Farms)greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread |
The old fashioned lifestyles of the farm family is fast drawing to a close. Bigger and bigger farms are "swallowing up" those small family farms at such a rate that it's scary. Corporation farms are the "thing" now and "bigger is better" mentality is sweeping the nation and indeed the world. Just look around you and pay attention to the farms in your area. It will not and has not stayed very closly to what it was. I know some will say that one has to expand or get out. Progress I think they call it. Well, that kind of progress has started the ruination of this nation and especially the family farm. My dismal projection is unnerving and downright negative--but-- if your' a small family farm trying to make do by raising hogs, beef or chickens or even maybe turkeys--good luck. More and more these little farms are having to cease operation while the owners take jobs in the business world to help make a living. Markets! That's what I'm talking about. Cargill has be involved in the swine operation for a few years now. They watch that hog from the beginning to the end. They have their own farrowing houses, feed and now packing houses. Do you think for one second they will buy your produce? Why should they? They have all the product they want and can controll the price in it's entirity. So, this "gloom and doom" forcast is not something I like to talk about let alone think about but at the same time I've been watching and realizing that the old fashioned family farm is quickly and swiftly -dying. Each year around here little guys are selling out and the big corporate farms are ususally the ones buying them out. Who wants to own property in the country that was once your own farm, while the big dudes farm right up to your yard? Many are forced to do just that as they are in debt for their farm yet and cannot sustain without having to do such a terrible act just to save what they can of their former llifestyle. My opinion? I don't know what the answer is but I certainly don't like to see things going the way they are. Gov't subs help out some but in the end even that tightens the noose around our necks and gives Uncle Sam even more control over us and our lifestyles/farms. I'm blessed because our "borrowed" farm is debt free at the moment. I'll not predict what the future holds here as I have to live in this fast paced world too and money is a very large factor to consider--even in our everyday decisions. Working capital for my business is almost nonexistant as prices continue to increase while production of items I require is slowing to the point of them not being built ahead of time but only after they receive my order. My advice is to try and get out of debt [certainly isn't easy] ASAP and start developing a lifestyle/farm that you can be fairly well self sufficient without using outside help. Nuther words-learn to make do with what you have or what you can do. Jesus Christ is coming back real soon for His Church. We can't expect things to get much better until then! Matt. 24:44
-- hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), September 27, 2000
Boy, Hoot, you say things beautifully! The exact thing is happening here in Wis. Alot of the family farms in our area are being sold off to 2 BIG MAJOR farms. My husbands family farm, which we bought part of, has been in his family 4 generations. When his Dad died, you wouldnt believe all the Big farms that wanted to buy it. Sadder yet, is that the land is going for such high prices here, that only the rich can afford it.($3,000-5,000 an ACRE). So, you have a lot of farms being sold off and rich people are building beautiful huge homes on the farm land. When we bought the farm, 120 acres we thought Neil, my husband could be home more, hes a trucker...but with low crop prices and high fuel on the truckers, he is working double it seems to try to make ends meet. And we are pretty frugal...the only debt we have is the farm and the semi. I couldnt beleive it when I heard the price of soybeans and corn dropped AGAIN this year...JEEPERS!!!!!!!!! Well, thanks for your thoughts...could I ask what type of farmer you are? We dont have livestock, yet...to expensive for us to start right now, but wed like to someday.... Take Care, Carrie in Wis
-- Carrie Wehler (carriew@ticon.net), September 27, 2000.
Hoot, I was just thinking about this topic last night. In the Prejudice thread, there has been a lot of discussion of Native Americans and the history of U.S. seizure of their lands. I thought there would be a lot of empathy for the Indians, in that homesteaders are kind of in the same position these days...precariously watching their lands being assimilated. Fortunately, it doesn't involve the genocide and violence these days!! But sad to watch the lifestyle eroded, and not to the betterment of humanity, I would say.
-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), September 27, 2000.
I guess the Cargills and Monsantos' in our eyes, were the settlers and homesteaders in the eyes of the Indians. Is this just progress? Doesn't feel like it, huh? Seems, as forever, mankind just doesn't know how to contain himself. There probably was a solution for us all back in the Indians time and surely there has to be a solution today for farmers. Seems like there would be enough room to co-exist. But I guess the big guy wins, no matter the costs. Sorry to be so negative, but I honestly don't know how to slow down and reason with the tides of change. Maybe we need to start thinking of solutions "out of the norm" for a change. Hoot, this ol hillbilly, is gonna go sit on her hill and ponder for a spell.
-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), September 27, 2000.
I was just listening to NPR,and they were running a story about todays farmers and how high tech farming is today.The farmers that they interviewed said that in order to exist they HAD to be bigger and better than in their father's day.The flip side of the story was that in Europe small family farmers still have quite a solid place in their market.I wonder what the differences are in their government or consumerism practices that makes this possible for them and not for us?
-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), September 27, 2000.
For those who think a small family farm cannot make it today - read the book by Joel Salatin. They are Pastured Poultry Profits - Net $25,000 in 6 months on 20 acres, Salad Bar Beef and You Can Farm: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Start and Succeed in a Farming Operation.Joel's family of five (wife, two kids and mother), plus a couple of interns, gross over $200,000 a year off of a small farm by producing some 8,000 broiler chickens, 400,000 eggs from 1,500 haying hens, 100 head of cattle, a couple of pigs, 1,000 rabbits, 700 turkeys and 100 pickup loads of firewood. And you know what? They largely work an average work week.
How, pray tell, do this they this??? By living a fairly frugal livestyle and direct marketing every bit of their production!!! And if they wanted to produce more, there is a waiting list.
For his book contact Polyface Farm at 540-885-3590, Rt. 1, Box 281, Swoope, VA 24479.
-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 27, 2000.
Hoot:When Jesus does return to Earth I am looking forward to the heated debate over which church he actually will represent. I can see the argument now between the Catholics, Baptist, Mormons, Lutherns, Church of God, etc., etc., etc. I think he was born, raised and died Jewish. It will probably start a Holy War by those of the Islamic faith against most of the other world religions. As the saying goes, more people have died in the name of a God than any other reason.
-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 27, 2000.
Back in the dark ages, as I rode my dinosaur to ag college.....well, okay - so it was actually the late 70's. It sure seems like the dark ages! That was when get big or get out was in full swing and land prices (and interest rates) shot through the roof and kept on a going. Of course, "get big" back then was a lot smaller than it is today - used to be 1,000 acres was huge around here - not any more!Anyhow, back in school.....I was one of two females in my intro to ag business class. The instructor advised all the young men in the class that the best thing that they could do to finance their farm was to get married. His take on the subject was that any woman put out in the workforce could make your interest payment in a year. Did I mention that he was a bachelor?! (Not real surprizing - huh?) I suggested that maybe hubby ought to think about getting a job and letting the wife farm - and 'bout got hooted out of the classroom. So - how many of the ladies on this forum are the primary "farmer" in your family?
The "family" farms in Europe are much smaller than the family farms over here. Further, there are many more markets, smaller towns and public transportation. Joel Salatin is an inspiration, true; but how many Joel Salatins could a small town support? Look around you - can you see your neighbors abandoning Wal-Mart to come buy your chicken or beef? Check out your co-workers - when was the last time they prepared a vegetable from the garden? Heck - they won't even take the time to fix their own salad - stopping by the salad bar or picking up a bagged salad at the store. If you offer to share your produce with them; they expect you to pick it, wash it and deliver it to them - I've often thought to save them the trouble, maybe I ought to eat it and digest it for them too!
I don't think that there is any "turning back" to small farms - I fear that we will have to go forward to them instead. Those of us who homestead are far more forward thinking than those who laugh at us for our "backward" ways. I'll just stay right here on my little patch of ground and do what I need to do to feed my family. If they tax me off of this piece of ground - I'll go look for a piece of marginal ground somewhere else and start over again. After all, my kin tuned their back on the potatoes rotting in the ground and came over here - could I do any less without shameing their memory?!
-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), September 27, 2000.
Ken, I don't believe that Jesus will represent a "church" when He comes back. He will look into the hearts of all those who professed to be believers, and those that believed enough to try to live the life that He called them to will be those He represents, whether they be Catholic, Jewish, Born Again, Lutheran or whatever... Just my $.02 worth, as Hoot would say. Blessings to you...
-- (trigger@mcn.net), September 27, 2000.
Hoot, I'm in KS and we see the struggle everyday of the family farms around here. The major cause of their demise is debt. The ones who are really hanging on and making ANY money are the ones who have NO debt. I have a wonderful family up the road, and they're highly successful, and have no debt, whatsoever. They pay cash for everything. And they're frugal.MANY of us around here are working our own system of buying and trading from one another. We're about 45 mi. from Wichita, and everything here you buy from Walmart, Dillons, etc. the SAME stores 45 mi. away costs a LITTLE bit more than if you were buying in Wichita. You pay for the 'convenience' of buying locally. We are all working together to buy as much as we can from one another. And helping one another.
Our plan for the future is to grow our own veggies, sell them from a roadside stand here on this road, eggs, (people flock from Wichita to buy fresh eggs here!) and buy our meat from neighbors and friends. I have about 14-15 fruit trees left to grow, almost 100 pecan trees (only 2-4 are big enough to produce anything) wheat from the neighbors up the road. They're cheaper and better than what you can buy from the co-ops, and you know how it was grown! We need to look to one another for this system! Help one another! I have no idea where we would be without these wonderful people we call neighbors here!
As for Jesus, He won't be of ANY religion, or church...HE IS THE CHURCH!
-- Louise Whitley (whitley@terraworld.net), September 29, 2000.
Hoot, He is coming, keep watching the eastern sky.Ken, I've read Joel Saletin's books and there is a lot of good info in them, but Joel lives on a 550 acre inherited farm in the Shennandoah Valley: that's not quite what I would call a "small farm". Joel Saletin doesn't offer much help to us little fellows living on 10 to 15 acres and building our houses out of anything we can get our hands on cheap. I've been wondering what other Countryside readers think about Joel Saletin's books.
-- Rags in Alabama (RaggedReb@aol.com), September 30, 2000.
Hoot, I most certainly agree with you about the lifestyle changes. We all remember the hard times for the farmers, a lot lost their lives to the madness that has engulfed the farming world . I still getcold chills whenever I hear John Mellencamps "Rain on the Scarecrow". I feel there is still opportunity, you just have to find it. Modern homesteading is a means of competing. Instead of a large operation, scale back, instead of putting everything in one crop, diversify into a few, instead of being just a farmer, be a farmer and entrapeneur. A farm family here in the 70s, worked 800 acres, almost lost it all. Now they run a small pick your own truck farm while using the rest of their place for a golf course and bed and breakfast . An added irony of it all, is that those big corporate farms often make up part of the mutual funds that the little guys invest in for retirement. The Lord always seems to provide, He just asks that we look. I always think of the story my granddad told about the man that drowned when the levy broke and flooded his home. The man asked why He let him drown and God said "I sent you a deputy, a rowboat and a helicopter."
-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), September 30, 2000.
The only way for smaller family type farms to make it today is to diversify. We have so many of those BIG farms around but they raise only one thing: chickens; cows; pigs. They usually don't even have a home vegetable garden! Back when "the family farm" was the mainstay of the country, the farm was virtually self-sustaining. You grew your food, your animals food, wool for your clothing, etc. Now it's like major farmers have one-track minds.We are trying to diversify our lives as much as possible to keep our little farm going and our little home business going. Although my husband is a licensed electrician, he will do ANY job for washing windows to hanging pictures! All for the same price! And that mean he keeps steady work AND that he can stay here around the farm to do it! We still have a long way to go but we're working on it!
The huge feed lots and livestock lots out west are AWFUL and disgusting. Animals go through hell and then we eat the meat....what are we doing to our bodies....
-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), October 01, 2000.
GOD, I'm sick of this religion $%^#&^(*.
-- Anne (HT@HM.com), October 01, 2000.
That Joel guy (the one who wrote the book)... now in my opinon 100 heads of cattle, 400 chickens, etc. is NOT a small scale farm (well if it is compared to the big American farming industry than it may be considered small). Sadly, we have also almost given up on our small farm --- sold the 50 sheep, still have 3 pigs, a donkey, and about 45 acres of land. I got tired of working my butt off and it never being enough so I got a "real" job..... now my husband can't be a farmer because he ain't got no farmers wife, which leads me to believe that more than the work I did , my main job was the motivation factor (get off your $#&/(%#""%/() butt and get to work!!!). Back to the point - I really think the days of living off of your small (and I mean SMALL) farm are over. We can only hope to find a job maybe via computer to keep us here at home and not out at the office . Does any of this make sense?
-- kelly (kellytree@hotmail.com), October 04, 2000.
I'm not sure what the original question is, but w.r.t. Joels books, I don't think the point is the money but the level of purity of the food we are forcing in our bodies. I am still in school but once I've graduated I plan on starting small growing chickens and beef a healthy and humaine way to feed my family and friends. If it expands and I end up making money- all the better. As for Joel not giving sol'n to people on 40-50 acres, that's not his job. Its up to you to decide what you want to do to survive! He suggests an alternative for those who have the oppertunity,and for the rest of us we'll have to work hard to put ourselves in that lucky situation!
-- Angie Buller (f5a26@netscape.com), March 27, 2001.
There is only one magic bullet that will save the small family farm, better marketing. For those of you so wiiling to criticize Salatin, you've missed his major point. The markets are out there to make you profitable, you just have to find and exploit them. Why continue to grow corn and soybeans and sell them off the farm when prices keep dropping? Figure out a way to add value to what you raise before it leaves the farm. The only reason corn flakes cost so much is that Kellogs, etal have convinced the consumer that they're worth more. What's worth more, your corn sold to the elevator, or your corn fed to your own pigs or chickens, and marketed locally as better than "store bought"? I know how the economics work on my place. Marketing can be the least fun part of the job. Some days I'd much rather muck out the pig pen than talk to one more dunderhead who doesn't understand the value of what I'm trying to provide him, but in the end it's the most financially rewarding part of the job. If you insist on being a cash crop farmer, please look into some of the markets for organically grown corn and beans. You don't have to change over all at once, but if you compare the profit per acre of even changing a small part of your operation over you might be surprized at the numbers. Sell yourself and what you grow.
-- ray s (mmoetc@yahoo.com), March 27, 2001.
Rags in Ala, Thank you for the 'OTHER' take on Joel Salatin, and the you can make it mentality. This is like I was saying the other day, to the fellow selling the video of how to get back to the land. The fellow that believes in accomplishment, (owning a boat, or a hobby farm, or whatever) is the fellow who will be able to see it through. And if you already grew UP on a farm all your life, or if you were already handed 500 acres for FREE, would definitely AID such a belief, and the determination to see it through... Tell me something I DON'T know about, but can RELATE to, then maybe I can make a little realistic progress. Hoot, you're right about the debt problem... and you're right to LOOK UP, for your redemption draweth nigh. xxxxxxxxxx P.S. Jay is right when he says "I feel there is still opportunity, you just have to find it." There's a movie we just saw from feature films for families, called 'The Pistol", that showed a short little guy named pete maravich who determined to overcome all the large (tall) obstacles of life. Work with what you have, study and practice to make it grow.
-- Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), March 27, 2001.