Somewhere I read a post claiming you could give your self cpr by coughing. (Yea Right) later I read a post claiming that was a hoax. I don't know if I read it here or not I need to find the post saying it was a hoax. I need it for a "I told you so" if you know what I mean Grant

-- Grant (thegrange@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000

Answers

Grant, possibly refering to the Heimlich Manuver tought in CPR classes. If you are choking and alone you can do a "self Heimlich" sort of, by using the back of a chair ect, to achieve the same effect. Hard to explain w/o pictures. Giving yourself chest compressions or self mouth to mouth would be fun to watch.

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), October 24, 2000.

When i was trained for CPR a few yrs ago, in fact i need to update here soon, I was told you can give yourself CPR by holding the fists to your sternum area as you would an adult and do the himlic (sp) maneauver. Like I said, i need to get updated.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000.

Hello Grant. Guess what? Please don't use a fake email address; it creates a lot of technical problems for the community. For example, this software will send you an email alert if someone responds to your message and those alerts will bounce back to us if the address you type isn't valid.

The original message was received at Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:02:39 -0700 (PDT) from sdn-ar-016mokcitP316.dialsprint.net [158.252.167.222]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----

----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx1.mail.yahoo.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account (thegrange@yahoo.com) - mta133.mail.yahoo.com 554 ... Service unavailable

And so another bogus email addy. HOWEVER As interest in saving a life is good...Read On. JR

THIS WAS WORTH PASSING ON - PLEASE REMEMBER IT.

> > Let's say it's 6:15 p.m. and you're driving home (alone of course),

after an unusually hard day on the job. You're really tired, upset and

frustrated. Suddenly you start experiencing severe pain in your chest

that starts to radiate out into your arm and up into your jaw. You are

only about five miles from the hospital nearest your home, unfortunately you

don't know if you'll be able to make it that far. What can you do? You've been

trained in CPR but the guy that taught the course neglected to tell you

how to perform it on yourself.

HOW TO SURVIVE A HEART ATTACK WHEN ALONE

Since many people are alone when they suffer a heart attack, this

article seemed in order. Without help, the person whose heart stops beating

properly and who begins to feel faint, has only about 10 seconds left

before losing consciousness.

However, these victims can help themselves by coughing repeatedly and

very vigorously. A deep breath should be taken before each cough, and

the cough must be deep and prolonged, as when producing sputum from deep

inside the chest. A breath and a cough must be repeated about every two seconds

without let up until help arrives, or until the heart is to be beating

normally again.

Deep breaths get oxygen into the lungs and coughing movements squeeze

the heart and keep the blood circulating. The squeezing pressure on the

heart also helps it regain normal rhythm. In this way, heart attack victims

can get to a hospital.

Tell as many other people as possible about this, it could save their Lives!

From Health Cares, Rochester General Hospital via Chapter 240's

newsletter, AND THE BEAT GOES ON ... (reprint from The Mended Hearts, Inc.

publication, Heart Response)

BE A FRIEND AND PLEASE SEND THIS ARTICLE TO AS MANY FRIENDS AND

FAMILY AS POSSIBLE.

-- JR (jr3star@earthlink.net), October 24, 2000.

Nine million years ago when I was a Nursing student in the ICU, the nurses had discovered that a patients' cough reflex was triggered by using a Qtip in their ears (1960s)...so, it then became standard procedure to stimulate coughing by doing this so that respiratory patients could help clear their own lungs (we're talking people in comas and people who just got off ventilators here)..soon, it was apparent that a nice deep cough also seemed to get rid of some nasty heart irregularities. It then became standard for medical staff to instruct people to cogh deeply if they started having an abnormal heart rhythm during cardiac catheterization and similar procedures.Often during the stages of a heart attack, the heart will begin to pick up an abnormal rhythm, sooooo, coughing deeply MAY resolve that nasty thing for a time until one gets to the hospital...again the key word is MAY..do not take bets on this. The concern is that people will cough and cough and cough INSTEAD of calling 911. Always call 911 for chest pain....always.....and lastly, always..God bless..

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), October 24, 2000.

I teach American Red Cross Community First Aid. This class includes CPR. I have been asked this question by students several times in the last few months. Guess what? It is another internet legend. Grant, if you had used a real addy, I would have emailed the page from Rochester General Hospital that specificaly denies this claim of self CPR. Do the search for Rochester General Hospital. Scroll down and on the left side of the page you can open the info you need. Hope the wager was a big one, winner!!

-- Terri Perry (stuperry@stargate.net), October 24, 2000.

Just thought I would explain why you can't give yourself CPR by coughing. Coughing can only occur if you can bring air into your lungs and then expel it. People who need CPR need it for two reasons. One they are choking on something until they pass out from lack of oxygen and then their heart stops because of lack of oxygen. Or, second, they have a heart attack and the heart stops pumping or irregularly pumps so they don't get oxygen to the brain and pass out and quit breathing. In the second scenario, they don't need CPR until they have gone unconscious and therefore they couldn't give it to themselves anyway. In the first scenario, if the Heimlich maneuver is needed it is because there is an obstruction in their throat which is blocking the passage of air. If someone is choking but is coughing, you do not perform the Heimlich maneuver on them because as long as they are coughing, they are getting air and don't need help. You just watch them to see if they deteriorate where they do need help. If they are choking to the point that they need the Heimlich maneuver, they would not be able to cough on their own because they cannot pull in any air to cough. Therefore, they would be unable to cough to expel the object. So,this is why you can't perform CPR on yourself through coughing.

However, if your airway is blocked and you need to expel the object, you can use the Heimlich maneuver on yourself if you grab your own fist with the other hand and pull up sharply and hard under your ribcage. Depending on your condition and your ability to do this maneuver correctly, you can be successful but it is not as successful as having someone else do it because they can use more force. You can also try putting your hands in the same position and leaning your body heavily over the back of a chair to help you thrust. Both of these techniques are less effective than someone else doing it but if you are alone it is better than nothing.

I hope this clarifies this.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), October 24, 2000.

I just goofed on my address. I put in thegrange@yahoo.com but my yahoo address is organicgrange@yahoo.com my home e-mail address is thegrange@earthlink.net I did not put a bad adress in on purpose I just goofed. Sorry about thje mix up Grant

-- Grant (organicgrange@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000.

what about the "divers reflex" for stopped breathing?

-- STAN (sopal@net-port.com), October 24, 2000.

I did a first-aid certificate with the Red Cross fairly recently (Australian branch), and they are now advising against the Heimlich manoeuvre. Seems you can break a lot of ribs that way, and upset hearts in people inclined to heart trouble, and in general you average out losing more - long-term - than you save short-term (and even losing some of the ones you save). As said, a lot of times people are getting sufficient air to survive, even it's distressing to the onlookers. In general, the ones who would need it are the ones you don't notice, because they're passing out, unable to vocalise. Also it amounts to legal assault if someone wants to make a case out of it, and then you're either legally liable, or at least have to defend the case.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 25, 2000.

"Diving Reflex" is a term used to describe the phenonomen of the body being able to shut down major organs for a LONG time and still keep the body alive as in cases where people "drown' in COLD FRESH water. Even if they have been in the water more than an hour,SOME can still be resusitated..Premature babies and a few term infants also can do this in cases of hypothermia.That is why in Emergency rooms, fresh water drowning victims receive CPR much longer than usual to make sure that the Diving reflex is accounted for. God Bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), October 25, 2000.

And I'll add to the fray...

I took the Healthcare Provider CPR class by the Am. Heart Ass. last spring. Our text described the 'cough' and it's pros and cons. The text did not make a case for or against. The concensus by our instructors was that if it's an issue of saving your own life, then you're sure going to try whatever methods are available... !

And concerning the Helmicnh (sp). Here's the choice - broken ribs OR death...hummmm which one would you rather have... ?

jd

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), October 25, 2000.

As a heart attack survivor, You do what ever you can to keep breathing. And Not All heart attacks or people are the typical in the book kind. I have none of the stereotype or problems which would point to a heart attack. I did have Rocky Mountain Spotted Tick Fever 6 weeks before and therein was the problem. And to borrow a comment by "Forrest Grump" (in a portrayal of main stream America) "And that's all I have to say about that.)

As the Big man said, Do whatever it takes!

And Grant, error noted, you are forgiven!

JR

-- JR (jr3star@earthlink.net), October 25, 2000.

Leslie is right about the cold H2O drownings and hypothermia resecitations. In the ER these folks are not considered dead till they are "warm and dead".

I had never heard or seen the "self CPR" info floating on the internet before. Maybe the "self defibrilation Kit" is in order next. Jumper cables from your car battery, or hold the coil wire and have a friend turn over the motor.... john

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), October 25, 2000.

Our youngest daughter would be dead without the Heimlich maneuver. One time when we were toasting marshmallows over a bonfire, she got a too-large bite of partly-toasted (therefore soft) marshmallow stuck in her throat. It took my husband three times of doing the H.M. to get it out, and she was turning blue. If we'd had to wait for the ambulance to get there she would have been dead. As far as the coughing, sometimes I get an irregular heart flutter -- if it goes on too long, I can usually right it by a couple of deep coughs. But, it is not a life-threatening situation, just an annoyance.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 26, 2000.

I haven't taken any structured courses on CPR (my mom the nurse taught me) and I haven't had any life threatening experiences, but I can tell you from you using my basic, human and instinctual common sense that you can not give yourself CPR. "Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation" (hence the word resuscitation) is only done when you need to "resuscitate" someone. This means that they have actually stopped breathing. If someone has stopped breathing then they can not cough therefore unable to perform CPR on themselves. Coughing while you're unconcious and not breathing seems highly unlikely to a medically uneducated person like myself, but you be the judge. Coughing during a heart attack to me sounds a little more possible as a prevention from full cardiac arrest. Because of my lack of education I can not say whether or not coughing can help you get through a heart attack or irregular heart rhythm alive, but it certainly does not seem anywhere near the same ballpark as performing CPR on yourself to me. To me it sounds like a bad choice of words. Instead of sending this incredible story to all your friends (along with the HIV Needles in the movie theatres story and others like it) maybe you should ask your doctor what the benefits of coughing are during chest, arm or jaw pain. After all they do have the education.

-- Sarah Fortin (sassykuhl@hotmail.com), August 21, 2001.