As is quite well knownI assist a number of people wherever I can in dealing with 'errant' lenders - with some success - I would appreciate immediate comment on the following, in order to demonstrate the 'public' contempt or otherwise, of an, as yet un-named well-known lender, with a controlling/majority plc shareholder who advertises that they have "your interests at heart" and whose advisers should be considered "your friend" ??

Given the contemptible horror storieswe (journalists, MPs, and victims) read about on this website all too frequently - your initial comments would be appreciated on a Senior Manager of a well-knwon Lender 'chuckling and sniggering' (on tape) whilst hearing about the serious ill-health of a borrower's family member, involving imminent major amputation - whilst hypocritically expressing 'sympathy' ?

How would you view such an individual or the firm he works for ?

Does this sum up how lenders/departmental managers/their agents, treat borrowers ?

-- Vic Harper (victorcharper@aol.com), December 02, 2000

Answers

I would view such an individual pretty poorly.

Let me make a proposal... if the individual is clearly identified on the tape and the sniggering is audible, please send it to me and I will publish it on the site where the mortgage-buying public will have a chance to hear it.

Lee

-- Lee (repossession@bigfoot.com), December 02, 2000.

Thanks Lee !

The Lender is clearly identified on the tape; the Manager is clearly identified on the tape; and just in case the 'sniggering' was not audible (much to my utter disgust)- then it was referred to by myself verbally just to place it 'on the record' - there is no doubt about any aspect of it - I am a 'seasoned' recorder of conversations for 'evidential' purposes !!

Thanks again for your offer - I am writing to the effective majority institutional shareholder's Chairman & CEO to see if they condone such inhuman behaviour, and if so, to explain how this corresponds with their corporate theme/logo !!

-- Vic Harper (victorcharper@aol.com), December 02, 2000.

I know of another reader of this site who was sniggered at during a phone call. The culprit this time was a solicitor acting on behalf of a major lender. The factor which so seemed to amuse the solicitor was the ex borrower's financial situation (vulnerable).

I am very impressed that you recorded the phone call, Vic. By the way, I would view such a person as a sad (indeed sick) individual, but of course the really worrying part is that if the guy is a Senior Manager then presumably he has been given, either explicitly or implicitly, permission to behave like this by the company he works for.

There is too much of this sort of behaviour about. I'm glad you have been able to highlight it so effectively.

I'm just sorry that you and your family are having to go through all this.

-- Eleanor Scott (eleanor.scott@btinternet.com), December 03, 2000.

Hi Eleanor,

I think it would be useful for other if you named the lender and the manager of the company you are referring to.

If you do, you might want to put "allegedly" before the lender's name and the manager's name if the person who told you this does not have a recording of the phone call.

Lee

-- Lee (repossession@bigfoot.com), December 03, 2000.

I have been made fully aware lately of the utter arrogance displayed by the senior management of lenders. This latest callous disregard of the feelings of a fellow human only serves, in my opinion, to show how far removed they have become from the rest of society.

I personally know how serious illness can affect a family and my sympathy goes out to you Vic. I'm glad you taped the call and I believe this should be publicised to shame the lender and the senior manager concerned.

I have now purchased a tape recorder for my own telephone. I will of course be making the standard statement that lenders use in regard to taping the calls we may make to them; "Your call may be recorded for training purposes".

-- Tony Hayter (Tony@Hayter.com), December 03, 2000.

Please be careful about naming the individual on this forum. Lee (as the site host) could get his rear end sued, despite the fact that this individual and his lender are utterly despicable. Slander and libel is a nasty area, but infringement of privacy (under which recording of calls falls) is quite simple and I would hate to see this forum shut down. If he knew he was being recorded or was advised before the call terminated then you are OK.

-- Too scared to say (iwasduped@yahoo.com), December 03, 2000.

Thank you to everyone who has posted their kind comments above, and for the many private e-mails I have received. I cannot repeat some of the more descriptive views expressed about this individual here, but I do share some of your views, thank you.

As for publshing the content and/or naming and shaming (as has been repeatedly suggested), I hold no such fears. For everyone's information, the organiser of this site is well versed in such legal matters, and due to the very nature of the criticisms and information levelled towards institutions herein, has taken exhaustive steps to insure that the site will not be gagged, and ensure that 'the truth will out' - for the benefit of all, and to stop the despicable behaviour of errant lenders whilst they attempt to hide behind their false fascade of apparent respectability.

It will come as no surprise therefore that this same lender in question also employed perjured evidence before a County Court, and when found out, eventually agreed a settlement.

I would like to think that their controlling pensions/financial services institutional shareholder, who have an impeccable reputation todate, do not condone such events. We will have to wait and see ?

-- Vic Harper (victorcharper@aol.com), December 03, 2000.

Dear Vic,

Well done with helping those people faced with dealing with 'errant' lenders. I only wish that I'd known about you and the other people on this site about 4 years ago!

I was absolutely disgusted to hear of the Senior Manager's behaviour but, sadly, I was not surprised. In my run-ins with the Bradford and Bingley I feel as though I've been treated with complete contempt. They don't seem to care a jot about their fellow human beings - just the amount of money they can extract from them. They just don't care how their actions can affect you, either financially or personally, or the toll it can take on your health and wellbeing.

I hope that you will be able to add the tape to this site, and that it will bring the 'Senior Manager' the condemnation he deserves.

-- Catherine Adams (catherine@olias.co.uk), December 12, 2000.

The type of individual who finds amputation amusing is well suited to being in the mortgage/banking industry - after all it seems that to be recruited by a bank you have to display a heartless, ruthless and callous attitude to fellow human beings. A person who can muse at anothers suffering in this way is a sick individual and clearly needs help. They say to mock is catching.

-- Jo (chrisbrad@zoom.co.uk), December 12, 2000.

I'll put the person who got sniggered at in touch with you privately, Lee.

Meanwhile, I understand that you are safe recording a call if you either (a) tell the other party it is happening, or that it might happen in the future [this could be done in writing], or (b) use a speaker phone and a tape recorder, rather than a device that attaches to your telephone. Obviously you need to check this.

If you try to use information which has been obtained from a taped call without the other party's consent or knowledge, this might constitue a breach of confidence. But you could argue a 'public interest' defence.

Hey, let's be careful out there.

-- Eleanor Scott (eleanor.scott@btinternet.com), December 17, 2000.