In your opinon what is an appropriate homesteding question?

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Ok everyone- there has been some talk about what is appropriate talk and questions on this homesteading board. In your opinon what is appropriate and what is just not on?

IMO - anything that has to do with a homesteaders life is appropriate.

-- kelly (kellytree@hotmail.com), December 05, 2000

Answers

This has been on my mind for a while now. What comes to mind is a few questions. What sets us apart from the rest of the world? What are we learning? What are the things we don't have in our lives that most of the world has? We are all certainly effected by religion and politics, heatlth and money and of course family. What are the city folk talking about on their forums? Where is their pleasure centered? We're too open a world not to be prepared on all sides-at least head knowledge so we don't get suckered in.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), December 05, 2000.

Actual or implied censorship is a many headed demon.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 05, 2000.

I would agree with you, Kelly. Life is pretty varied as well. Homesteaders are quite varied and that is why there has been the discussion of what is appropriate. The thing that I notice that is terrifically different between our conversations here and those of non homesteaders is that non homesteaders tend to talk quite a bit about entertainment.

It seems that we have all agreed that this forum is not to be used for personal ads and the like. Otherwise, I would have to agree with JLS.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 05, 2000.


Because the group is diverse,because the forum is set up to allow you to pick or choose what topic you view,I see no need for any change from what has been done.Anything some one wants to put on is ok, as far as I can see,as long as you treat your fellow human with the same respect you would like for yourself.Clicks and flames have been the problem for me, not content.

Example-I'm just not big on "bathroom humor"jokes,but some have been put on.You could pretty much tell from to post title what was to come.But,This doesn't bother me, I just don't go there.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 05, 2000.


I have to agree with JLS, if you don't like what you see, making it disappear is just a "mouse click" away! "One man's meat is another man's poison." Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), December 05, 2000.


We all have our opinions that must be respected by others. I am of the opinion that no changes are needed. Recently I deleted several bookmarked urls for other forums that had changed over the last few months. I'd hate to see this one change so dramatically that it wouldn't be worth visiting.

If it weren't for the political messages posted here that educated me on the electoral college, I would have been all for abolishing it. Now I'm not after doing some more research on my own. I thank all of you for opening my eyes.

Like others, there are many topics that I don't even open unless I have an excess of time, and who has much of that?

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), December 05, 2000.


I would say that if we keep the threads tight (stay on topic as much as we do here LOL), try not to have multiple threads running that discuss pretty much the same topic, and continue our respect for each other, we should be doing fine. I think the election has had us a little fired up for a while, and now that its settling down, we probably will, too.

There will always be people who disagree with one's opinion. Always. We can't make the board into a reflection of some homogenous group of what we would like homesteading to be. So if we respect each other here as fellow Countrysiders, and understand that some folks see the world entirely different than others, there should not be any need for nastiness.

We have done a very good job of civility here. I just watched yet another board close down for all the wrangling and flaming that went on. We should be patting ourselves on the back here, folks. (And not sure what a "city" board is, but from other boards with lots of city folk apparently posting, they talk about a lot of the same things we do, without the country life skills and problems.)

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 05, 2000.


First off , what is the definition of "homesteading"? Did the pioneers have laptops in them Conastoga wagons? I would venture to say anything that causes one to ask a question is valid. Anyone with knowledge should be welcomed to share. Anyone not interested can pass up a thread or use the "Back" icon or the "Home" icon to completly bail out. But I guess if I REALLY had to label something as inappropriate, I would have to say threads that attempt to control the flow and content of this site or the use of openly vulgar language (which usually gets a response from the Countryside staff).

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 05, 2000.

I think we are doing just fine here. We all have to recognize that there are certain topics which will be debated more hotly than others but since we put the subject on the topic line those who don't want to see hot arguments should stay away from those subjects. Politics, religion, euthanasia, to name a few are obvious ones that people are going to have strong opinions on so if you don't want to read arguments, don't go to those threads.

Having said that, I have noticed on forums that some people think that if you don't agree with what they said then you are flaming them. They feel this way no matter how nicely you say it. Unless someone sends back a post that says Colleen, you are a flaming idiot, I don't take any comments that disagree with my postings as an attack on me personally. (Okay, some of you are saying I'm a flaming idiot privately. LOL) I think that is what we all have to remember here. We are disagreeing (attacking) a position, not the person. But I think sometimes if a person's name is used when the response is posted, the person sees it as a personal attack and not an attack on the subject matter.

However, I think if people are posting comments that call a person a particular name or whatever then we should remember not to be doing that. We are about issues and information here, not attacking people.

I would not like to see any changes made to this forum. It is a wealth of information. Those of you that are overly sensitive to how responses are made should perhaps stay away from the topics that we all know are going to produce some heat.

That's my two cents on this topic.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), December 05, 2000.


I for one enjoy it all, including the controversial topics. I don't care for the hits at personal opinions (although I am afraid I might have been unintentionally guilty of it on one thread), nor would I like vulgarity, but I like knowing what a cross-section of homesteaders are thinking about the issues. We hopefully can have respect for each other in our diversity, and learn from each other if we keep an open mind. diane in michigan

-- Diane Green (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 05, 2000.


I asked this same question, in a different way, before starting the Deliberat Living group on egroups.com . The trouble I have seen in the past with on-line groups that allow the topic to drift too much is that the people who do want to stay on topic eventually get tired of the off-topic posts and leave. That allows the group to drift even farther off topic.

This forum isn't there yet, but at times it gets close. I'm about to stop reading one of the other forums because posts that help me live this lifestyle are getting very rare.

If it's entertainment and chat you want, then you will be most happy with a group that allows any and all subjects. If it's information and perhaps support and encouragement then you want a group that is more focused. Either will work for some people, but not everybody.

==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), December 05, 2000.


How boring life would be if we all had the same thoughts and did the same things...... It seems to me that if people have found this forum and are posting and answering posts, they're homesteaders of one sort or another. Live & let live, and as my Grandfather (a great homesteader in his own right) used to always say: "the more the merrier!" The door at his house was always open and your opinion, though maybe not always agreed with, was always welcome. He loved a good debate between educated, intelligent, articulate people. Which seems to be missing from so many lives now. So many people are used to the TV or movies at night that this has gone out of style. I say "bring it on" the more diverse, the better! It's just too bad that we can't really get together and debate some of these issues, because to me, body language and facial expressions say a lot. I've had a few experiences where e-mail or a like situation doesn't adequately express the sentiments and things get really screwed up. I hate all CAPS, a lot of exclamation points, and a lot of etc's.... My vote is not to change the forum, just read what you want and leave what you don't want to those who may be a little different from you and interested in a particular topic.

-- Rose Marie Wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), December 05, 2000.

Questions that are appropriate? How 'bout "Would you like fries w/ that"? "Paper or Plastic"? or if speaking to the president "Boxers or Briefs"? Just keep it clean. John

-- John in S IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), December 05, 2000.

Looks like we all seem to agree on something here!! Lynn wanted me to put her 2 cents in. She thinks this forum is like having Andy Griffith, The Victory Garden, Judge Judy, Father Knows Best, Face the Nation and Jerry Springer all on at the same time.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 06, 2000.

I like this forum the way it is. We can debate politics, religion, etc., vehemently but politely (for the most part!!), yet as soon as a practical homesteading question comes up, there are good answers forthcoming. It is like being able to chat with a whole bunch of good neighbors over the back fence about everything and anything, but when you need help, or they do, you are there for each other. Maybe we get along better over the internet than we would in real life!! But I have learned a lot on the political threads, been saddened and discouraged by the religious threads (by most people's total ignorance of the Christianity they say they are against), and have gotten help, and, I hope, given some, on the practical questions. Right now I would say that with winter here, we have more time for the philosophical questions, and less practical things coming up, but I'm sure that will change as winter wears on and turns to spring with planting time and baby critters being born, building projects being started, and so on.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 06, 2000.


Jay/Lynn- that was really good..and pretty darn accurate.

Oh boy Rose Marie,I use CAPS,!!!!!,& ETC. CAPS for emphasis,!!!! for emotion And ETC.and lots of other abreviations 'cause I'm lazy.hohoho BTW FYI OMHO I hate all the computer geek acronymns -ROFLOL.That's just me tho.We already enough govermnent and business acronyms to last a lifetime or two.

I'm kinda getting use to smiley faces,I even used one...once.Some are pretty inventive, actually.But,This is how people are trying to get some of that emotive part in their communications.

So make my point and get off of here already. It's that these are just pet peeves with me and I pay it no mind when reading someone else's post, and certainly don't think of trying to pigeonhole them for it.I'm looking at content.

The actual snippy remarks and name calling are what disturb me.And that has been happening.I've been reading older threads and I didn't find it going on there.bUT THE GROUP THERE WAS also MUCH MORE HOMONOGENOUS-Sorry accidently hit the caplock again-not yelling.

And I'm bugged by "you can't spell so you're a dummy who opinion isn't worth a hoot" leanings.Now,you've got both nontypests who make errors, and people who perhaps weren't as fortunate as some to get a good primary education and missed out on learning how to spell well,plus memory problems for some people which makes it harder to remember their spelling.I don't think any of these things make someone a dummy and thus less valued.And yes, Spelling dummy commemt was on a post here, as well,a few months back.

So let's hope sheepish is right and "Sharon,it's the election,stupid"- hohoho so you know i'm joking and not calling names- and we can some of us pull our claws in a bit.

In defence of the people here, almost all of you do not do these things, but a very few do.And yes there are definitely far worse forums for flames. But I'm on some that arealso much better at putting flames out.Basically a bunch of us that are on it make polite and kind replies as to the inappropriateness of the comment,even if it is an old friend,and if need be the "webmaster" steps in, who is very wise indeed, and has his/her say.This has worked so far on the other lists,and one of them I've been on for almost two years.But then, again,how mean can a bunch of gardeners get, I ask?

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 06, 2000.


Good for Lynn from the other Lynn...liked the way that was put...a little bit of everything..

-- Lynn (mscratch1@semo.net), December 06, 2000.

Jay, I laughed until I had tears in my eyes. PERFECT!!!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 06, 2000.

Folks, I'm probably one of the worst offenders, if I'm reading your ideas correctly. I don't have a governor on my feelings, nor on my words. I think "swearwords" when used too much, are a sign of a bad habit, or a limited vocabulary. It's too easy for a lot of people to use a list of about five or six "cuss words" in place of the thousands of potential descriptive adjectives and such which are available, and which would give a better idea of what they were trying to say, if they would take the trouble to use them. On the other hand, a good "swearword" now and then, for emphasis? Big deal. There are no "bad" words. Only bad feelings. Saying "friggin" is no better than saying "fucking". And gosh darn sounds pretty much like a PC way of saying goddam to me. Another big deal.

I have contributed a lot of time helping people with questions they have about different issues on this forum. I don't know much about animals, but I have a LOT of experience with building, plumbing, alternative energy, water systems, and so forth. And I'm glad to share.

Occassionally, I get a bit miffed at some people. LBF comes to mind. Apparently there are a few others who have felt uncomfortable with some of my posts. I am generally pretty tolerant of others' views, but I get REALLY tired of people laying their religion on me, as if their personal religious beliefs trump my common sense or education. Saying that your the bloody Bride of Christ does not impress me. At all. Stand on your own feet, or go to a Christers.com forum. Or expect to get some opinions that differ from those you hold so dear, dears.

I too like to come here and experience the thoughts of others from other parts of the country. I am quite active in my community, and to tell you the truth, I get tired of the same few dozen people being the only ones willing to show up and speak out at meetings which affect them, then gripe about "the government". The government here bends over backwards trying to get the people to let them know their opinions. I guess it's human nature to "let somebody else deal with it." I don't know. At least here, on this forum, people don't seem to mind "speaking out". It's also kind of cool to see the difference in different parts of the country, and see the different problems people experience in different areas. Like, imagine my son (in Florida) asking about cutting firewood, or shoveling snow :)

If I'm too offensive, just ask me to shut up. I don't bite. At least not over the internet!

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), December 06, 2000.


In your opinon what is an appropriate homesteading question?

Duh, Can someone help me? PLEASE!

Other than that I have to agree with -- Rose Marie Wild --sheepish -- Lynn-- sharon wt -- Kathleen Sanderson -- Jay Blair-- John in S IN-- paul-- Diane Green-- Colleen-- Notforprint-- Annie Miller-- Doreen-- JLS in NW AZ -- Cindy -- And any one else who express their decent and honest opinions to share knowledge..It is their right!

-- JR (jr3star@earthlink.net), December 06, 2000.


You said if you were too offensive, just ask, JOJ. Well, I'm asking you to please not use the cuss words. It is a big deal to me and I'm sure to others on here. I have no problems with different opinions from people, or from all these different topics, as long as it dosen't include name calling, mocking, nasty comments and personal attacks. Words can either HELP or HARM.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), December 07, 2000.

JOJ- yes, I do find a lot of what you say offensive. No, I don't think you should not have the right to say it. yes, i will leave.

-- Diane Green (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 07, 2000.

JOJ-I didn't see you use swear words.Haven't read anything of yours offensive so I must be missing something.I didn't see you call anyone an unamerican lying hypocrite,like I was subjected to recently.

So I wasn't referring to you,but,I do yell at hubbie for swear words,so you should maybe use symbols?

Truthfully nothing on here has yet to compare to the crude email I got from my own SISTER.I thought I was related to a muleskinner.Where she picked up that mouth I sure don't know,since we were raised in the same house.I was offended.Hubbie on the other hand thought it funny.So there you have it.

Apparently it's cool to be crude in some places, but here where I live people just don't swear.Plenty of other undesirable things,but not swearing.So consider that on an open forum you are possibly communicating with people from an area like mine and try to keep it clean.That's it, from me.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 07, 2000.


Well,guess that's not all, from me.I noticed that the political,religious,and ethical postings on this forum sure do get alot of visits and postings.A how to suggestion is just abt. rare as hens teeths some days.Not complainting.

It would seem that we doth protest too much.Apparently this is what the forum participants want.These postings wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 07, 2000.


OK, girls, although I could easily give you example of using "good" words in a way that you would find a lot more offensive than any "bad" words I can think of, I'll avoid using "bad" words (can you tell me which ones you think are "bad"?)

Tell you what. If I have to use a "bad" word (One that I THINK you might find offensive), I'll endeavor to put a warning at the start of my message, ok?

By the way, here are some of the "good" words that I find more offensive than the "bad" words. Don't read beyond this point!

Starvation, racist, bigotry, overpopulation, child abuse, censorship, billionaire, greed, hatred. I could think of a lot more, but I think you get the idea. (if you couldn't resist my warning, and read them anyway:)

The mean, nasty, and evil JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), December 07, 2000.


I agree that profanity has no place on a family forum like this. It would be nice to keep it a family forum. It is just good manners to keep the language clean. There was a potty mouth on dairygoats.com, and because of that one person,the whole board got shut down. Sad. As far as appropriate topics, I think that by and large most of what goes on here is appropriate. Maybe I'm nitpicky, but I did find the dirty jokes and men standing to pee post inappropriate and offensive. It is none of my business what position they excrete in,and has nothing to do with homesteading! If we don't draw a line somewhere, we are bound to see more of went on at dairygoats.com. The other thing I don't care for is when a person's religion comes up in a post that is not about religion, and then the whole thread gets taken up between the atheist and the Christians pleading with him to repent and be saved. Yes, we need free speech, but why not evangelize to the person by e-mailing him privately? I don't mean a small comment saying that the bible says this or that, I refer to the repetitive paragraphs, back and forth, with the atheist types. There is a saying about throwing pearls before swine, if a person is that opposed, maybe take it up privately or else give it up altogether.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 07, 2000.

life ,what happens between rising and going to bed.{and sometimes in between}

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 07, 2000.

Rebekah, that's probably a good solution.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 07, 2000.

Reread Cindy & Rebekah's posts they said exactly what I feel also!!!!!!! So I won't repeat it---reread it!!!!!!!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), December 08, 2000.

I just recently received Countryside after a long absence. The reason I came back was that I missed talking with others who had the same type of lifestyle, i.e. self-sufficiency, hard work, gardening and animals on the farm and making choices based on your beliefs. I have read some responses to your question and for the most part don't see a lot of homesteading talk, just talk about how great you are and your rights to free speech, etc. Rudeness is never an excuse for free speech, and people who have are offensive to others and don't respect them is not my idea of a homesteader. Homesteading is about cherished ideals and not living in that artificial world made by politicians and people who are nasty and selfish about what's theirs. We share and love and laugh at ourselves and sometimes at others foolishness, we attempt to do the best with what we have and above all we care about every living creature, respecting ourselves and others. Some comments I read especially from JOJ I did see as rude and crude. Well perhaps I stayed away too long and the world of homesteading has changed. How many out there live on farms or homesteads or want to?? That is what Countrysider's are to me.

-- Carmen (sunridge@dmv.com), December 11, 2000.

I agree that if we don't find the topic appropriate, just don't go there.

Jump off Joe, you do add valuable knowledge to this forum. You also add quite a bit of color sometimes. Would you like me to e mail you privately with a list of words that many people find offensive?:) Our mouths say many things but our fingers should not repeat them.

There are many topics that have been posted recently that I don't wish to know others' opinions on. I feel that knowing some of these opinions would cause me to lose respect for those persons and then I would not take seriously their homesteading advice. We all have a great deal to offer each other if we just continue to respect each other.

Our country is quite polarized right now so it is understandable that our forum would reflect this.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), December 11, 2000.


If I may ask, what did you find offensive about what Joe says?

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 11, 2000.

There are many topics that have been posted recently that I don't wish to know others' opinions on. I feel that knowing some of these opinions would cause me to lose respect for those persons and then I would not take seriously their homesteading advice."

What on earth does that mean?? That you only want to know the parts of people that are comfortable to you? We I think are all very complex beings, and fascinating in our complexity. NOt wanting to know stuff is perhaps under the heading of fear.....how can one fear losing respect for someone based on beliefs they are not even familiar with yet?

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 11, 2000.


From the MANY, MANY, MANY private e-mails saying, they appreciated me speaking up about a post I thought didn't need to be posted-----I have always felt if we didn't speak up/ we were then saying we agreed with something--& some day we will be held accountable for our actions or non-actions!!!! I received soooooo many private e-mails saying they totally agreed with me/ felt it was totally inappropriate---but they didn't want to receive the same rude, nasty insults that I did/ so they didn't post!!!!!!! Thanks for the private e-mail--don't think my posting even made them stop & think! But when God says, why didn't you say something when you felt it was totally inapproprate/ & the family forum was turning into anything but FAMILY ORIENTED / I can say, I spoke my peace-for what ever good it did--- as most of you said/ it must have made some inpact on them or they wouldn't have been so nasty in their replys!!!! Again to all those who usually lurk but e-mailed me----thanks for your support--- to those who are regulars who said you agree---but didn't want attacked -thanks for your e-mails----for the new ones who said, you can't believe what you read some times thanks for the support---for those who have spoke out before me, that you don't approve thanks for your e-mails!!!!! I found from my post their are at least 40 to 1 who agree with me!!!!!!!!! All we can do is pray for the direction of this FAMILY Forum & pray for those who are filled with soooooooooooo much restentment!!! And NO respect for others-----I found their are soooooomany of you who feel the same way-but refrain from commenting as you don't want to be attacked!!!! I do thank you for your personal e-mail of support!!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), December 11, 2000.

You're welcome, Sonda. God bless

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), December 11, 2000.

When Lesley posted about the changes in the forum, I really didn't see what all the fuss was about. I noticed lots of new people, and I noticed that I was skipping over quite a few topics, but I didn't slow down enough (busy, busy!) to ask myself why. I don't mind that the subjects aren't always about homesteading. We all have full lives, and it's fun sharing stories and helpful information with each other.

The folks who have been here a while will remember a thread about why we liked this forum, may have been as much as a year ago. I think it was Kathleen who put it so well-there are some of us who would not be comfortable if our discussions took place face to face, because some of us would get "shouted down" and intimidated; I don't like confrontation at all, and more and more I decide not to post, because I don't feel like getting "corrected" by the experts (on everything) who have recently joined us. Some feel the need to provide psychoanalysis on every thread. I fear a lot of us will stop posting because of it. Oh yeah, I find threads about men urinating, whether or not women shave, swearing, and dirty jokes inapropriate for this family forum.

-- Cathy Horn (hrnofplnty@webtv.net), December 12, 2000.


After I posted what I did about thanking you for your personal e-mail support that you also don't like the lanuage/ subject manner / the attacks/ etc./etc./etc./---I have received

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), December 12, 2000.

Sorry------I'll try again---After I posted what I did about --- thanking you for your personal e-mail of support that you don't like the language/ subjest mannor/ the attacks/ etc./ etc./ etc.-----I have receiced even MORE PRIVATE E-MAILS STATEING THE SAME FEELINGS!!!!! I respect you all/ who have said, you don't feel it is safe to post your personal feelings especially after reading what what was said to me--when I posted!(or you feel it is personal & you don't want others to read what you think!) It means a lot to me to find that 90% of you feel the same way-----there is HOPE AFTER ALL!!!!!!! What a suprise to me!!!!!!!!! I didn't even know we had sooooooo many family members on this forum--you all made me cry----It truely made me see we are the "majority"!!!!! That things will change if we don't give up & stand by our morals!!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), December 12, 2000.

I feel I need to apologize for something -- the stuff about men standing to pee was my fault. It was just something I was (and am) having to deal with, because of my job, and my hope was that if I could remind mothers to teach their little boys to sit down, it would help make the world a little bit better -- and cleaner -- place. I really didn't mean to offend anyone. Other than that, I pretty much agree with a lot of what is being said above -- keep the profanity out, keep it clean for families with children. Watch the threads, and try to stay on topic in the thread, and try to keep the subject line for the thread accurate, so if someone isn't interested, they can skip it. I saw a message from Carmen above, wondering if any of the people on the forum now were actually homesteading/farming, and my answer is yes. I believe most of us are, with some just starting or "wannabe's". It's just that, most of us being reasonably intelligent and well-educated (self-educated, in a lot of cases), we have more on our minds than just gardening, canning, and livestock. Those, too, definitely, but much more than that. I do also agree with Rebekah about the religious discussions, that some have gotten too long on the web site, and would be best taken to private e-mail. She's right about the "throwing pearls before swine" reference -- there isn't any point wasting breath trying to convince someone who has their mind made up. However, it would also be wrong to ban all reference to our faith in God, as is going on in so much of the public sector. For many of us, that faith in God, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, is the core of who we are, the foundation of our lives. It would be very difficult for us to have a conversation without God coming into it somehow, simply because He is the center of everything we do and are. And, although there are those who would have us believe otherwise, references to God and the Bible are not on a par with profanity or pornography. God and His Word will lift us to a higher standard, while profanity and porn lower the standard. So if we keep it clean, try to keep the standards high, and, as Jd said in his newsletter, watch the grammar and spelling, and make sure our information is accurate, I don't see any reason why we need to restrict the topics. However, if someone does want a restricted forum, go over to homestead-works. It is also a good forum, and has a moderator to keep people on track.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 12, 2000.

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