My neighbor a mile and a half down the creek lost 6 Jacob sheep and 2 goats to a Cougar during the past week, one a day, (or night). Last year he lost 3 sheep to a black bear. This guy is off in Europe so a couple of other neighbors & I went down and set some traps. I have a few steer calves on open range out across the creek, we brought them in and now we will have to be real careful and start hunting in the hills and try to get this cat before more stock is lost. My wife is afraid to even go to the barn at night even with the dogs beside her. Once again I carry a side arm and there is a Winchester in the scabbard on the ATV, a shotgun in the barn and my Coyote gun in the pickup. the good news is most of the Coyote are gone, probably the cat got them.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), December 08, 2000

Answers

Wow Hendo how high up do you live? Big cats are scary aren't they? I heard a big cat scream once and that brought the hair straight up on my neck! Hope your wife doesn't hear that she won't ever come out of the house. ...Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), December 08, 2000.

We have an old time breeder who regularly gives us the woes of living in cougar and mountain lion country, and not likely even guardian dogs unless in very large numbers are going to take on that problem!

How dumb am I that I have been keeping my Ridgeback Morgan close every evening because every time I go to feed the yearlings this big ole rat comes jumping out at me, across the barn and out into the night! Morgan almost got him last night! Until spring comes and the coyotes start singing, this has been the extent of big ole bad predators for me :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

Hendo, From what you have seen, are the coyotes harder on the stock than the mountain lions? Here in WV we have a large number of coyotes and the population is growing rapidly. They have no natural predators here. Sometimes I think that cougars wouldn't be half bad if they cleaned out the coyotes. By the way, there have been several sightings of cougars in the remote mountains here, but , of course, the DNR and Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries discount every sighting. I have plaster casts of tracks, the DGIF says they are of poor quality and are unable to determine the species responsible for the track. That is the official word. The VDGF biologist who took the casts says there is no doubt in his mind. My dads hunting buddy called it in with a turkey call back in the spring. This man has hunted all over the world during his lifetime. He knows what he saw. If it wasn't a cougar I wonder why all of the "officials" came all the way from Richmond over night to see the area as the casts were made. They had 26 people on that mountain for three days. I think that if the cougars controled the coyote population, I would welcome them. One lone bad cougar as compared to dozens of coyotes. What is the lesser of two evils?

-- Terri Perry (teperry@stargate.net), December 08, 2000.

When cougars come everything else goes.Deer scatter and become scarce.But your livestock can't leave so there they are,ripe for the pickins.Anyway can you keep everything close to habitation till big cat moves on? They have a big range and move to better hunting after a while.

.

When ours was here the deer vamoosed,the horses and the cattle ran for the front & stayed there, and he/she prowled around for abt.3 weeks.Hasn't been back since.Farmer did lose some newborn calves to it tho.,that were dropped back yonder ,so he moved his herd closer to the house too.

I have to agree with previous poster abt. the coyotee part

As far a human risk,keep the kids close and instruct them on not sounding like prey.As a adult,If you are not running along looking and sounding like prey,you should be OK,And of course Take the dog with,they should alert you to any danger and give you time to react. When I walked below the cliffs here I was a little aprehensive,because I was below a good vantage point for a cat,but I took the dog and a stout stick.

I don't know,becoming cougar poop does sounds like a novel way to go anyway.Oh my,I shouldn't have said that

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 08, 2000.

Teri, DNR "seeded" the hills of southern Indiana with rattlesnakes, and didn't bother telling the local population. They figured they would help with the coyote population, since they like to go into the dens and eat the pups. DNR isn't known for being particularly forthcoming. Sounds like they knew about sumpthin', huh?

As for me, after I read the story about cougers in this month's Reader's Digest, I'd just as soon have the coyotes. I figure myself or my dogs stand a better chance with coyotes.

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

Leann the rattlesnake "seeding" is a country legend.We had the same rumors here.There are alot of helicopters that fly around looking for potfields.So what went around was the fish & wildlife was dropping rattlesnakes in balloons ,from helicopters. I first heard it 5 or so years ago.

The only rattlesnake seeding going on around here is pot growers putting them and copperheads in their pot patches to keep out intruders.

Now fish and wildlife is looking for a few good volunteers willing to stuff poisonous snakes in balloons,then blow them babies up. Anyone interested?

Nick says he wants one of them big old snakes that can eat a coyote pup. He wants to mount it.Now he saw humongeous pythons in southeast asia that could maybe even eat a man.But you'd be hard pressed to find anything near that, in any rattlers we've seen.

If you were seeing alot of poisonous snakes this year,I have the following possible explanation:we had a bad drought last year,I save seeds and had trouble getting viable seeds bc of the drought.mice also had trouble finding viable seed to eat.So they moved in close to man,where there is often a free meal in the form of dog food, garden seeds,bird seed,pantry stores,etc.The snakes followed the mice.

I came to this conclusion after having meadow voles,I think, eat my pea seed when I planted.I can honestly say in a lifetime of gardening I'd never had my peas dug up and eaten.They were protected from the rabbits but not the mice.So I figured they must have been awfully hungry.

Anyway,about the only airborn poisonous snakes you'll likely experience is copperheads....... that is, if you're are standing below the cliffs at our place, when we happen to toss them over.Better wear a hat.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 08, 2000.

My friend in North-West Pennsylvania had a cougar attack & kill her goat. She actually saw it and called the PA Game Commission. They kept telling her there weren't any cougars in Pennsylvania. She described it to them and told them she knew what she saw. They finally admitted that PA does have cougars but then told her to keep her mouth shut!

Michael in North-West Pennsylvania

-- Michael W. Smith (KIRKLBB@PENN.COM), December 10, 2000.

Hendo, thanks for the reminder. It's getting cold here now, and snow due, so that's when we get the most cat action. Fortunately, it's only been sightings here and no casualties. I started making sure to lock everyone up again at night since reading this post (the predator thing, plus it IS getting colder.) I have become sort of lazy by letting the gang sleep out in the pasture at night (keeps the barn cleaner) but I would rather the barn were less clean and the critters more safe.

We have just had a ton of deer around here this year. So, bad news for the deer, but maybe good news for my sheep and goats, should the big cats come around.

btw, haven't seen a live coyote around here in a couple of years. Sue hear 'em at night, though. Very creepy.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 10, 2000.

Yes Michael-my family lives in southcentral PA-My brother has had a "creature" at his place for more than 15 years that is most likely a black cougar.20 years ago an avid outdoorsman I knew told me about seeing one behind his place.Now this guy was a drinker and teller of tall tales, but he knew his woods and wild animals.

Recently,some loggers were logging up at the watershed beyond my brother's place,and one cut himself.he sat on the hood of the truck to wrap up the wound,so some blood got on it.When they came back later on,there was a cougar on the hood of treir truck, licking up the blood.

Here in KY there are no cougars either, except the wildlife biologist admitted to me that a guy up on the next ridge raised and released some,supposedly.I know my wildlife, and I know what was here.

There was a thread a month or so ago on other places people have sighted cougars where there are officially none.It's a best kept secret,so Yahoos don't go out hunting them down.

I wouldn't tell anyone abt. the bear we had here,bc I knew it would be hunted down.It's gone now,someone else must have seen it.

I used to live and work in Erie CO, PA. Brrrrr. Cold!!Endless snow. BIG mosquitoes.Great trees.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 10, 2000.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have coyotes for neighbors than cougar. We have had sightings and kills of courgar (the latest one was a big male hit on the highway) in our area - Mid-Willamette Valley, Oregon - and it keeps me looking over my shoulder every time I walk in the woods - fixing fence or just killing time. Coyotes are no danger to me and my llama keeps them away from my sheep. A friend a little further up the valley claims his llama ran off a cougar that had killed two sheep, but I don't want to put my guy to the test. If it is true that if there are deer around, there probably aren't cougar, then I'm safe because I've got deer camping out under my shed roof and munching on my lawn. On the other hand, the woods wisdom in these parts is that the cougar follow the deer. . . I know the coyotes have moved on because I don't hear their calls anymore and the squirrels and chipmunks are back. Soon the cycle will turn and the coyotes will be back to hunt the squirrels. It's all reassuring, somehow.

-- Maggie's Farm (elemon@peacehealth.org), December 13, 2000.

I have to agree with others above that I'd rather have coyotes around than a cougar. Coyotes don't pose much danger to an adult, though they could be dangerous to small children, and two or three good dogs will keep them off the place, but cougars are more of a menace to us and our animals. The dummies that are trying to hide the presence of cougars in some areas ought to remember that in areas where lions or tigers and humans coexist closely, humans sometimes become prey. I have nothing against cougars personally, but I don't think all of them together are worth the taking of one child's life.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), December 14, 2000.

Well,Kathleen-I'm one of those "dummies".

I will take my chances with a cougar anyday,over my Two- legged "coyote" neighbor.Man is the most unpredictable creature in the woods.

But I have spent my adult life working in the woods. You do not know fear what you know.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 14, 2000.

We had problems with lions until we got gaurdian dogs. Now we never see them. (6 years with no lions !) These guys sure earn their Kibbles N Bits ! We have noticed the same thing. The coyotes get real quiet and real scarce when a lion moves in. Supporting evidence ? The last 6 years we have had more coyotes than ever. But the gaurdians keep them away too. Remember, a gaurdian's job is not necessarily to attack and/or kill the predator....just to keep them away from the flocks. Monica

-- Monica (zpepenovia@excite.com), December 28, 2000.