We have a small herd of goats. They are mostly registered Boer/Boer cross with a few Alpines to keep us in milk. I have been unhappy with their health and spent the last week reading the goat archives. At this point,I'm considering selling out and starting over. We are moving soon, so it would be a good time to start fresh with a CAE and CL negative herd. I have seen many reg. Alpines advertised CAE neg., but I have not ever seen CAE neg. in a Boer goat ad. Are Boer goat breeders not concerned with CAE? Also, how do you go about getting your goats tested? I don't feel comfortable selling goats that may be positive. Thanks for the help.

-- Barbara Ternes (lbfarm@hit.net), December 16, 2000

Answers

Hi Barbara,

I am sorry to hear you will be selling your goats and starting over. If they are indeed CAE negative this is probably the best way to go. Just to throw my 2 cents in here: I personally think that boer breeders are just as concerned about the diseases that goats can get but that that they sometimes are not as alert to CAE as a dairy producer is, the reason being is that CAE effects the milk production as one of its symptoms. They can freshen with a rock hard udder. So in dairy animals its more obvious. The focus of a meat goat producer is on meat quality and not as much on milk production. Now i am just saying this is my humble opinion here only. I know a lot of meat goat producers that do care and will test, however, with meat goats they are raised in large quantities and the cost is not cost effective i will say. So before I get my neck on the chopping block here i just want to say its my humble opnion. I rasie alpines, we used to have boers and sold out to concentrate on our alpines. I get my girls tested every year at Washington St or the WADDL test. Here is their website:http://www.saanendoah.com/wsucae.html also try Texas A & M and Colorado state. i believe colorado st. has anew more accurate test that can determine if the goat has indeed full blown CAE, had an exposure and is immune or has a dormancy of the virus. I hope this helps.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 16, 2000.

Hi Barbara, if you don't mind my asking, why are you thinking about selling out? If they have abcesses that would be best, but the CL can live on for awhile, so you might want to also relocate the goat yard. If CAE is what you're worried about, you can test for it yourself and send the blood in to WSU and it will be a lot cheaper than having the vet draw the blood. IF you are going to sell a positive goat, it should be for meat only, and make sure it will be for meat. Sometimes there are dairy goats that are knowingly bought as positive, if they are really valuble animals, to be quarantined.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 16, 2000.

Rebekah,as new homesteaders and new goat owners, we have made every dumb mistake possible. We were not well informed so we did not ask the Alpine breeder about CL or CAE so of course 3 of our 4 alpines have shown exact symptoms of CL, right down to the foul smell. We figured that since we bought everything else used that it would be o.k. to buy from auctions. Bad idea. Now I have six registered Boer does whose hooves will never be right and who have shown me sore mouth and lice. Actually I have 5 registered, because ones tatoo did not match her papers and I refuse to perpetuate a lie. We also did not do our homework on vaccinations and lost a baby recently to disease. We also have a full blood Boer buck who has been very healthy. He was bought from a reputable breeder;however CAE was never mentioned and he has bred all our does. We are moving to a new farm so we do not want to move any problems with us. We do plan to test the goats for CAE and we do plan to sell any infected goat only for meat. If CAE is as prevalent as it is reported to be in books, I imagine that since most of our goats were culls they probably are positive. You mentioned segregating a CAE positive goat. We are going to have lots of land and 2 of the alpines are pets to me. Would it be posible to quarantine a CL goat without risk to the other goats? Thanks for your help.

-- Barbara Ternes (lbfarm@hit.net), December 16, 2000.

Yes Barbara you can quaranteen for both CL and CAE but it is for life, and in the case of CL the pen is useless for goats and sheep for years. The abscesses contain contamined material that once is spread to the ground, fence posts, and barn feeders and walls, will stay infective for years. The next time you purchase think about going with one breeder and buy only from that breeder. You mentioned sore mouth and lice, these along with pinkeye, worms and cocci, are just part of having goats, and especially in having new goats all catching stuff from each other, most of the above are simply nusiance things that with good management will go away, or can be controlled. The very best thing you can do for yourself is to visit as many farms as you can until you find someones stock you like and a person selling the stock you can get along with. The idea of a goat mentor is long gone with all the information on the internet, which in some cases is horrid and how is a new person suposed to desern between fact and fancy? You certainly can't see my stock through the screen and I could have horrid, nasty, diseased nannys and billies :) out in the barn. Take all your new found knowledge, all the mistakes you have learned the hard way, and buy yourself some nice stock. If you like Alpines, than buy some registered stock that you can sell registered stock out of ( from someone like Bernice who has great references!), you can always breed your first fresheners Boer to have meat, or show wethers for the kids to show. As part of the sale, take the animals to the vet and have the CAE tests ran, in some cases you can even have a thrid party hold the cash on the animals until the test comes back negative. As for CL the only reliable test is the test run on the exude from the abscess itself, so this is more a matter of you looking for overall herd health. Look all the stock over with a fine tooth comb, except no excuses as to why Sally is limping, or Betty is walking on her knees, feel of some udders, milk a few if you are buying Alpines. Look at the condition of their feet, and run your hands down their necks and behind their front legs, feel any lumps of bumps? What about old scars? Look especially at the older does, because that is what your younger does will look like. Always read tattoo's and check paperwork to make sure the person selling is the person who is the owner.

Auction barns are a huge risk, even the high prices breeder sales the Boer goat industry puts on are risky, just go over to Egroups.com join goat and sheep rancher and a few other Boer lists and just listen for awhile. Now forget about disease, how many folks want to purchase stock from alot of these folks who use penicillin routinely after every kidding, use wormers for 3 days in a row just to get rid of tapes, and who use every vaccine in the Jeffers cattle section, to immunize their stock for everything and lots of things goats don't catch. Alot of the Boer problem stems from the fact that most of the folks in Boer are newbies, who for some reason have this distaste for us loud mouthed dairy broads, just don't get this :) Be smart and starting over is probably the fastest way for you to have quality stock! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 16, 2000.

2/8/02: Go to the Washington State and University College of Medicine site on "Update On Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis (CAE) Virus" March 2001 You can also contact them and ask more questions.

www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/userguide/caefaq.html

-- NanC Fenton (georgenanc@pahrump.net), February 08, 2002.