Ok, I have tried to remain quiet about this topic, but I have to let it out.

Personally, I enjoy the friendship Carter and Abby have, but I want them to remain just friends. If these two get together, it would be incredibly boring. Why, you ask? They already know everything about each other, they have no problems with the other's vices, they don't disagree on anything, they don't mind the other's past, and all that's left for them is to get together and form a family. They would be another Mark and Elizabeth. They have chemistry (non romantic, IMO), but they have no spark. As a couple, they have no obstacles to overcome, they don't have any buildup, and nothing can get in the way of them remaining a couple, there's just no tension. This is great for us folks who are watching, but in television they are really bland. I see them and I don't see any conflict between them, they're too similar and two passive characters.

Abby doesn't need someone like Carter, and Carter doesn't need someone like Abby. Abby has been someone who has raised herself and her brother, has taken care of herself her entire life, has had a failed marriage, she doesn't even know what love is. When you don't get love from your parents, it's very hard to recognize it, much less give it, which is the reason why her marriage failed, and why her ex had to cheat on her. Abby needs someone who can take care of her for a change. She needs a MAN. Carter is a sympathetic ear, but he's not aggresive with her when it comes to helping her out. He's merely there to ask "Are you ok?", but that's not enough. If you notice, Abby has NEVER gone to Carter for help, he's the one that notices something is wrong and then goes to her. It's obvious that she's not interested in him, she's just willing to help him because he convinced her to be his sponsor. Even when Carter asks her if she's ok, she puts on a brave face and tells him she's used to whatever has happened in her life. He even flat out asked her if she needed help with her mom, and even though she was screaming for help, she said no. She's not willing to be vulnerable in front of him, but she's very willing to go to Luka and ask for help (The Visit).

Carter needs someone who needs him, someone who depends on him for a change. He needs to grow some balls and take that last step to manhood. He has grown throughout the seasons, but he's not quite there yet. This dependency he has on Abby is not good at all, because what's gonna happen when she's not there? He's going back down. It's good to have someone who is willing to be there for you whenever you need help, but it's not healthy to run to that person for basically everything that happens in your life. He needs to learn how to take care of himself, and THEN, he will be in a succesfull relationship. He has been walked by the hand since the beginning of season 1 (first Peter, now Abby) because he's everyone's favorite and no matter how much he complains about people not trusting him, the guy only has to raise his finger and every single character is going to be there to help him. Let's face it, he's the baby of the ER.

In every single relationship, Carter has been whipped. Why? He never had that motherly love and he goes from woman to woman looking for that. Sounds sick, but it's actually just a psychological reality. And that is the exact same thing he's doing with Abby. He depends on her too much, as if she was his mother. Remember that look he gave her on Benton Backwards when they were working on the mugger? Carter has come to believe that because Abby is his sponsor, she has to be there for him and at the meetings at ALL times, like a mother should be for her kids. He needs to find a sweet little girl with whom he can prove himself that he can handle the taking care of. Someone said once that Carter has never been in love and I agree. He doesn't know what he's looking for, and he confuses love with need. He has to fall in love first, and THEN grow needy of that other person. Why haven't his relationships lasted? At one point, he has realized that he doesn't need that person anymore and then gets rid of her, or them of him, that's the same thing he's doing with Abby. At one point this codependency on her is going to wear off and then what? He's gonna realize he doesn't love her like he thought he did, and bye bye Abby.

Abby may not know what love is, and Carter doesn't know what love is either. How can two people who don't know what an emotion feels like can get together? They need other people who HAVE experienced love, and can teach them how it works.

Now, Luka and Abby. As much as this relationship has gone down the crapper, it has kept me more interested than any other relationship on the show. It's this awkwardness and differences betweent he characters that makes the relationship real and interesting. They have to work on their miscommunication, they each have to deal and get over the other's pasts. How does Luka feel about Abby's alcoholism? About her family? About her failed marriage? About the way she is? How does Abby feel about Luka's family? About where he comes from? About his closed emotional shoot? That's a whole season worth of episodes right there. A potential couple is a couple with which the problems come AFTER they get together, not before. Little time is spent on getting them together, and they are written so that all the problems explode while they are. I see Luka and Abby and I see a rocky relationship, which is interesting to watch. Hell, they haven't even solified their relationship and they are already having problems they have to work on. If the writers are smart, they'll realize this is the "Super Couple" they are so looking for. They have even more to work on than Doug and Carol ever did. The problem with Doug/Carol, mainly Doug. The problem with Luka/Abby, both of them. Imagine all the years the writers can squeeze out of this relationship. If they play their cards well, they can have more than enough episodes to last until the end of the show.

Luka needs to get over his past and learn to recognize who he is at this moment. He needs to learn that other people, like Abby, care about him and worry about his emotional and phisical state. Last season he mentioned to Carol that bad things happen and then you have to get up the next day and move on, which leads me to believe that he's still not over the death of his family. Last week we learned he went back to Croatia, which is good. I don't know how often he goes back home, but the fact that he does means that he's not as damaged as we thought he was. Luka may very well be the most complicated character on ER ever. He has a way to make us believe that everything's ok, and then the next second... boom, he's a mess. I'd check out the script again to see who's the one who is bipolar. The most amazing thing about Luka? His family's death intermingled with war. It's like someone pauses your life, rearranges it, and presses play again. He had found a wife, had two children and the next second, they were gone. You can't get closure with that kind of events, therefore getting over them is twice as hard. Last year he was pursuing Carol, a woman who, not only looked exactly like his wife, but had two children as well. Luka is looking for that rewind button. He wants to find a woman in which he can relive what he had back home, and that is a sign that he's not over his family's death. He wants to take care of a woman like he took care of his wife. He doesn't want anyone to take care of him, he wants to take care of someone, even if it's just a dog, but he needs to know that someone depends on him. For all we know, he was doing the same with Abby, until the mugger came along. Then the tables turned and he came face to face with someone who wanted to take care of him. That flabbergasted him, and he turned defensive. He's probably been in relationships after his late wife, obviously none of them were successful. Luka seems like the guy who pursues women in need, Carol last season and his interest in Abby on the season premier. He doesn't like people to see he is vulnerable, and now that Abby has seen that, he feels ashamed. What Luka needs is a very deep soul cleansing, and then he'll be able to love again.

Right now, he's battling with many things inside of him at the same time. While he's going through all this emotional states, he shouldn't be dating anyone, but he wants to. Someone on another board mentioned that Luka looked disappointed when Abby left at the beginning of The Dance We Do, and I saw that too. He's the kind of guy who doesn't use words to let the other person know how he feels, he acts on it. He never flat out told Carol that he wanted to help her with the girls, or that he was interested in her, he showed her. He started that way with Abby, and even now after that mugger thing, he's still doing it, only he has too many things going on at the same time and it's not working the way it used to. Let's face it, Luka is not the kind of guy who would be with a woman only for the sex. On The Dance We Do, he noticed that Abby was in need again, thus he continued to pursue her. The problem? Abby is not as open as Carol was, and he's encountered some resistance there.

As I said before, Abby has never had anyone who has taken care of her (speculation), which is why she can't recognize Luka's silent puppetry of help. The problem these two have at the moment is miscommunication and bad timing. Abby went to Luka when he was not able to help her, and Luka now is trying to help Abby at a moment in which she doesn't want help. She doesn't know that he's interested in her either. When her mother told her that Luka stares at her all the time, Abby was incredulous. Why would you be surprised that someone you're sleeping with stares at you all the time? She thinks she's Luka's sex toy, and if sex makes him feel better, then she's willing to do that. But it's obvious that she doesn't want the same from him, she's very interested in him. The problem is that they are pursuing each other in circles, they don't know who's chasing whom. One of them will eventually have to turn around to face the other, and hopefully that will be Luka, because he is the one who is being misunderstood.

After this happens? Even more problems. Luka has to teach Abby what love is, and has to teach her how to be vulnerable. Abby has to come to terms with his late family and also teach him that it's ok to be vulnerable. Being as insecure as she is, I imagine some kind of self convincing that no matter what she does, she'll never be the wife he lost, and he'll never love her as much as he loved his wife. Of course, this might not be true, and Luka would have to convince her of that, but Abby has very low self esteem, and that is another thing they have to work on. I could go on and on about all the problems that they might encounter as a couple, but my fingers are starting to hurt, so I'll stop here.

So, when it comes to keeping me watching every week, I would rather they continue this rocky relationship with Luka and Abby and then watch them trying to fix things up. The only storyline I can see with a Carter/Abby relationship is that Abby stays with Luka, who would continue to ignore her and then towards the end of the show she'd realize Carter cares about her and she'll go to him. But I hope the writers realize how cheesy and soap opera-ish that idea is, not to mention been there done that. This is ER, not General Hospital, and I hope they never actually do a triangle, because that would be the end of the show for me. I want Carter to find happiness outside of the ER, because obviously that ER has brought him nothing but trouble (as Gamma said). His life was great until he started working there, he needs solace OUTSIDE of work. Luka's and Abby's life had been horrible before they started on the ER, a relationship with someone from work wouldn't hurt them very much.

Now, I don't want to be misunderstood, I'm not critizicing any of the characters here, only their prospective relationships, I love all three of them. But there's never been a relationship on this show that I care about, and now that I am interested in Luka and Abby, I don't want to get bored with Carter and Abby. Their friendship is beautiful, let's keep it that way. I want Carter to be happy with someone, and I can't see Abby as the one providing him with that happiness. After he learns to deal with his mind, I want him to try and learn to understand his heart. The fact that most of this post is taken by Luka and Abby actually proves that the writers can get more mileage out of these two. I made a little experiment this summer to prove my thesis. I started writing two stories, one of them a Luka/Abby, the other a Carter/Abby. The story about Carter and Abby I had to finish because I bored myself to death with them. I had to stretch them getting together because that was the only obstacle they had, and after that, I had no more ideas that could shake their relationship. The Luka/Abby, took me years to get them together and even after they did, something always popped into my head that would make their relationship unstable and I'm still writing that story, it never seems to end.

So, I hope the writers appreciate all the options they have, and play their cards well. I love ER and I have been watching from the start and as I said, I have never cared about a couple. I like Abby, but I don't want to have to fast forward her scenes because she has become involved in a bland relationship. Anyway, thanks for reading this meaningless ramble. I feel much better now that I have vented, although there are thousands of more things I can say, I only gave you the gist.

Thanks and Merry Christmas, Carolina

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 16, 2000

Answers

Geez, that was a mouthful. May I throw in a very simple thought. Right now, Carter is defined by his recovery. If we throw in a relationship, he is back to being defined as the young, cute doctor. Maybe so cute, we assume he "always gets the girl." Do we have to assume that Abby must fall for him?

If so, we will forget his recovery, for Abby is important to that goal. Carter schlepped through his life. This is his first experience that he needs to show effort or else he gets fired and becomes

-- Zorbo (RDomino1@aol.com), December 16, 2000.

Chase. (got cut off)

-- Zorbo (RDomino1@aol.com), December 17, 2000.

carolina...carolina....you wouldn't by any chance be the same carolina as the one who wrote: 'guess i'm doing fine' - would ya? i'm here to say that i totally disagree on your points about mark + elizabeth. (i think they are the best) i also disagree on your abby/luka points. no, i haven't watched any of season 7, yet (part of me living in australia, part of me not wanting to send cash overseas) i don't like/love or hate luka i'm in the middle of hate and like. Being one of the newer fan's and not seeing anything past great expectations (no re-runs here in Oz)i have relyed heavaly on the internet- spending countless hours each day looking up stuff and fanfics on ER. after a whille i have come to the conclusion that, yes, carter is in no position to be in a relationship right now. However, if i had to choose abby/luka or carter, carter would be first choice (but SLOWLY!). then there is the headache of choosing deb or abby for carter. I'm only 13 so don't sue me for what i've said. but i do agree, what you have written is a mouth full (well, i'll go to saying bucket full). merry christmass folks and a happy new year.

-- er_aussie (er_aussie@hotmail.com), December 17, 2000.

IMO, Abby and Luka don't have any chemistry. Abby doesn't seem happy with Luka. Also, Luka has a serious problem! The way he bashed that guy's head in was psycho!

Abby and Carter would be cuter together and the chemistry's there. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the writers handle their relationship!

-- Karen (kmmatran@ingr.com), December 17, 2000.

Obviously there's a deeper explanation as to why Luka killed that guy other than he's a "psycho". The guy is going through a deep psychological change, give him a break. I'd like to see you handle war, the death of your family, being a stranger on a different country, not having friends and on top of that killing a guy. You wouldn't exactly be the most sane person out there.

Abby and Carter cute? Yeah, I guess so, if all you care about is looks. But Peter and Cleo look cute also, and I think the majority of ER fans are not thrilled about that relationship. I can understand why for the big majority of teenagers being cute is the ultimate reason to start a relationship, but we all know that's not true. When it comes down, Abby is not interested in Carter in a romantic way, I think that's pretty obvious. She helps him because she's his sponsor and she has to. She didn't even want to be his sponsor in the first place, and she warned him that she could barely hold her own life together right now. Granted, she's not exactly giddy when she's with Luka either, but when you put Luka and Carter together, I think we all know who she's interested in. Abby and Carter have chemistry, just as Mark and Carol had, Mark and Doug, Susan and Carol... they're great friends, but they wouldn't be a "hot" couple, a couple who would have fights and problems and would go through hell together. They'd be a couple of "cute" people sitting around, having nothing interested to give the audience, and cuddling. To many sweets give you a toothache. I don't wanna see a sweet relationship, we have Mark and Elizabeth for that. I wanna see a dysfunctional couple, and I think we all know who's more dysfunctional between Carter and Luka. Let me give you a hint, his name starts with L.

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 17, 2000.

I totally agree with you Carolina -- what a wonderful post! One thing I did notice after Luka went "psycho" was when he was explaining his actions to the police he said: "... but that guy was going after her..." meaning that Abby was now under attack. Isn't it possible that Luka was again seeing someone (a woman) he cared about in danger and that THIS time he could strike back against the attacker? Obviously its way too soon for Luka to feel as deeply about Abby as he did about his wife but still... Also, could he be keeping his distance because he somehow feels (unconsciously of course) that everyone he cares about leaves him/disapears or is in danger?!? In any event I agree with you that the *Abby/Luka* story is full of great possibilities.

-- Christine (mcb37@hotmail.com), December 17, 2000.

Is anyone else getting reeeeeeally tired of all the seemingly endless "Who makes the cutest ER couple?" threads?

I vote for Abby/Frank the Ex-Cop Desk Clerk, Luka/That Morgue Lady, Carter/Haleh, and Kerry/Malik. Or Kerry/Chuny, if you prefer.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), December 17, 2000.

Carolina: I expect you'll get a lot a flack for your remarks, but I just want to say that I totally agree with you. Totally. And you expressed it better than I could.

Carter and Abby would be too much like Mark and Elizabeth, too white bread, and TPTB would have to keep inventing crises (such as a brain tumour, or death of a family member) to keep the relationship interesting. And yes, Carter does seem very immature both in his relationships and in his current whining about his probation.

On the other hand, as you point out, there is a motherload of subject matter in the Luka/Abby relationship that could take years to explore. I too have found that this relationship has kept me tuning in like none before. I hope that TPTB continue to treat this storyline with respect.

-- Kate (yfpy0050@yorku.ca), December 17, 2000.

Wow! Wonderful post, Carolina. I really am not looking forward to any sort of love triangle between either of those three. I figure that since they started with an Abby/Luka relationship, they might as well stick to it. I bet Luka's visit to Croatia/ meeting his dad would do him a world of good, so that he'll be a little more happier and cheerier around Abby. (or, maybe not). I also don't think Luka is the kind of man who would continue to ignore a woman and just have sex with her... if he's not liking where the relationship is going, I'm sure he'll say something to Abby.

As for Carter and Abby... I'm not even sure they're friends at this point, though. If she wasn't an alcoholic, if she wasn't a sponser, I doubt she'd be interested in hanging out with Carter whether or not she was having a relationship with him. It's also really clear that she's not liking being his sponser either, and she very reluctantly divulges any information to him. I've always found like she thinks she's doing a favour by telling him about her problems-- not something she willingly wants to do with a friend. So personally, I'd like to see a friendship grow between them, something strong and reliable, but I would love to see Luka and Abby's relationship grow for the better. Part of the reason I enjoy seeing Luka and Abby is because their relationship is gradual-- they will progress on it together, feeling each other's needs, finding out what they want. On the other hand, as you say, Carter already knows what he wants ( a family, etc), and I also don't think Abby is ready for that yet.

Your point about Carter looking for motherly love in the women he's dated is interesting. You seem well-versed in pyschology, so I was wondering about this other theory; that some people fall in love with those who save them. I remember reading about it in a text book a few months back, and I thought it sorta applied here-- Abby literally/figuratively "saved" Carter (from death/getting fired, whatever), and if I remember correctly, the person who's been saved develops an attraction for their saviour.

I do disagree w/ you on one point though that Carter leaves his women when the codependency wears off--- first it's always been the women who've left him (and I don't think that he was too dependent on them either), and secondly, he's always been willing to give more than he takes. I just think that in each of the relationships he's been in, he's wanted more than what his women wanted to give. He's always been ready for commitment, his girlfriends have just wanted casual sex (IMO). It's always been frustrating for me to see Carter have relationships, for this reason. And that's why I'd rather see Carter just make friendships on the show for some time, before TPTB give him a relationship plot line.

-- samira (matb_west@chickmail.com), December 18, 2000.

If any of you have read this board regularly, you know I am going to write in favor of Abby and Carter. First of all, I am under the impression that the writers either, A) *want* us to see Abby and Luka as a bad couple, so that we can see a slow development of Abby slowly going to Carter, who is much more open to her, or B) want to show how Abby and Luka can progressively improve their rocky relationship. Either way ,I don't think they did a very good job. Luka seems to be somewhat out of character from what we saw last season, and Abby is following afer him like I didn't think she would either. The writers *are* giving subtle hints that "hey, Carter is the one listening to Abby's problems, but Luka's the one she just sleeps with"...plus the undetectable looks between these 3. For example, THe Dance We Do...I have no idea what his shaking his head at them was about, but I am presuming, he was thinking what what going on there. It could be jealousy, but I dont think so, at least not yet. And before then, while they work on the mugger, Carter and Abby share these looks I cannot figure out. (and just to note, I don't think Luka is a psycho either, I think he has some fairly understandable issues with his past).

I agree that Carter and Abby *could* be just another "cute couple", but is that not what Luka and Abby would be eventually? I think that given the difference in backgrounds between Carter and Abby, they could also pull off some fairly convincing twists. Why not? Carter is very good as the compasionate listener, which Abby desperately needs sometimes.

As for Abby's motives with Carter, I do not think that she doesn't want to be involved in his life. She had a lot of respect for him last season, if you recall. She appreciated him as a teacher and she still respects him after he comes back from rehab. I think a lot of the Carter and Abby advocates saw a lot in that scene in Doc Magoos. Yes, she was resistent...opposite sexes are not suposed to sponsor, but *Carter* was the one to tell her it wouldn't be a problem. And then later when her mother came in town, Luka wasn't the least bit concerned with her issues to even know there were any yet, and Abby took the oportunity to talk with Carter about it instead, more openly than we've seen her speak with anyone else. She was appreciative to him after the fire, and I see a lot of potential with them. I also see alot of potential w / Carter and Deb to though, so I'm just hoping which ever way the writers go, it's good. I just do not see any chemistry with Luka and Abby. They are not the couple I ever look forward to seeing week after week.

-- Elaine (mrsclooney78@hotmail.com), December 18, 2000.

If any of you have read this board regularly, you know I am going to write in favor of Abby and Carter. First of all, I am under the impression that the writers either, A) *want* us to see Abby and Luka as a bad couple, so that we can see a slow development of Abby slowly going to Carter, who is much more open to her, or B) want to show how Abby and Luka can progressively improve their rocky relationship. Either way ,I don't think they did a very good job. Luka seems to be somewhat out of character from what we saw last season, and Abby is following afer him like I didn't think she would either. The writers *are* giving subtle hints that "hey, Carter is the one listening to Abby's problems, but Luka's the one she just sleeps with"...plus the undetectable looks between these 3. For example, THe Dance We Do...I have no idea what his shaking his head at them was about, but I am presuming, he was thinking what what going on there. It could be jealousy, but I dont think so, at least not yet. And before then, while they work on the mugger, Carter and Abby share these looks I cannot figure out. (and just to note, I don't think Luka is a psycho either, I think he has some fairly understandable issues with his past). I agree that Carter and Abby *could* be just another "cute couple", but is that not what Luka and Abby would be eventually? I think that given the difference in backgrounds between Carter and Abby, they could also pull off some fairly convincing twists. Why not? Carter is very good as the compasionate listener, which Abby desperately needs sometimes.

As for Abby's motives with Carter, I do not think that she doesn't want to be involved in his life. She had a lot of respect for him last season, if you recall. She appreciated him as a teacher and she still respects him after he comes back from rehab. I think a lot of the Carter and Abby advocates saw a lot in that scene in Doc Magoos. Yes, she was resistent...opposite sexes are not suposed to sponsor, but *Carter* was the one to tell her it wouldn't be a problem. And then later when her mother came in town, Luka wasn't the least bit concerned with her issues to even know there were any yet, and Abby took the oportunity to talk with Carter about it instead, more openly than we've seen her speak with anyone else. She was appreciative to him after the fire, and I see a lot of potential with them. I also see alot of potential w / Carter and Deb to though, so I'm just hoping which ever way the writers go, it's good. I just do not see any chemistry with Luka and Abby. They are not the couple I ever look forward to seeing week after week.

-- trustno1 (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 18, 2000.

Sorry, this is going to post twice, this is the one I was meant to submit. I don't know how to quote here, so I'll just copy and paste.

Quote:

"A) *want* us to see Abby and Luka as a bad couple, so that we can see a slow development of Abby slowly going to Carter, who is much more open to her, or"

Again, I don't want to sit in front of my television for two years to see and wait until this happens. The whole "I'm sleeping with a guy who ignores me and I don't appreciate the one who loves me" is VERY soap opera-ish. It's also been done in nearly every show. I can see how Abby doesn't value herself enough to think a man can actually love her, she has very low self esteem. But if the writers make Carter the hero/prince charming again, I'm gonna hurl. The fact that nearly every fan is seeing this might happen, is a sign that it'll be boring. We can see it coming a mile away. Even my little niece came up with that same analyzation, and she's 11.

Quote:

"B) want to show how Abby and Luka can progressively improve their rocky relationship. Either way ,I don't think they did a very good job. Luka seems to be somewhat out of character from what we saw last season, and Abby is following afer him like I didn't think she would either. "

Exactly, YOU said it: Luka is out of character. Why? He killed a man and is struggling to battle his own demons. We've known Luka for a year and a half, and we know that the way they are writing him now is not the real Luka Kovac. The writers are not stupid. They are not going to stay in character for a year and then change him so that Carter can get what he wants again. When the season started, he was the same old Luka. When he was on the date with Abby, he was having fun, was flirting, was being gentlemanly and considerate. It's after the mugger story that Luka changed, but that's still temporary, because he's slowly, very slowly, going back to his old reserved self. Luka is probably the most complicated character, and you really have to see deep down to realize who he is, and to figure him out.

Also, Abby and Luka haven't even started their relationship, how can you assume they didn't do a good job? Luka went back home on Christmas, he's also going to be in a major plot in February in which he will find some solace... this current situation is most likely to change (hopefully), which is why I believe the relationship can work.

Quote:

"And before then, while they work on the mugger, Carter and Abby share these looks I cannot figure out."

Carter probably thought she should have been attending to his issues. They had a meeting that night, to which Abby didn't commit by the way, and he was giving her a look that said, "You blew the meeting to go out on a date." There wasn't anything more to that.

Quote:

"I agree that Carter and Abby *could* be just another "cute couple", but is that not what Luka and Abby would be eventually?"

Every couple ends up eventually being a cute couple. It's the road to cuteness that keeps us on our seat's edge. Carol and Doug ended up together, and when they did, they became a cute couple because there was no more conflict between them, everything was resolved. The problem with Carter and Abby: they would be a cute couple too fast. They would get together, and that's it. The road Luka and Abby would take to "cuteness" would be much more rough, and the writers can get more mileage out of it.

Quote:

"I think that given the difference in backgrounds between Carter and Abby, they could also pull off some fairly convincing twists. Why not? Carter is very good as the compasionate listener, which Abby desperately needs sometimes."

Compare all the things they can do with Luka and Abby with: "Abby, I'm your boyfriend and I'm here to listen to you." As Kate said above, if they hooked these two and the writers would want to shake the relationship, they would have to resolve to dead relatives and brain tumors. The only other interesting thing they can do with Carter and Abby is if one of them falls off the wagon, and they can't have them relapse every six months to keep us interested. I don't think it's a good idea to take two addicts and hook them up, it's too predictable(boring) and too codependent.

The truth is that Abby doesn't want a listener. She's not talking to Carter, and she's not talking to Luka. When Carter asks her if she's ok, she makes up a lame excuse and gives him her best smile. I'm sure she appreciates his concern, but she doesn't want it. If she really wanted to be listened to, she would have been honest with him, and she would have woken Luka up so she could vent. When you want someone to listen to you, you don't lock yourself in the bathroom and cry alone.

Quote:

"As for Abby's motives with Carter, I do not think that she doesn't want to be involved in his life. She had a lot of respect for him last season, if you recall. She appreciated him as a teacher and she still respects him after he comes back from rehab. I think a lot of the Carter and Abby advocates saw a lot in that scene in Doc Magoos. Yes, she was resistent...opposite sexes are not suposed to sponsor, but *Carter* was the one to tell her it wouldn't be a problem."

Exactly, Carter, in a way, forced her to say yes. She told him very clearly that she didn't want to be sponsoring him or anyone else, and he kept pushing her. The fact that she wasn't sponsoring anyone proves that she doesn't want to sponsor anyone, she can't because her own life is a mess, she's still recovering. As Samira said, I am 100% sure that if Carter wouldn't have seen her at the AA meeting, she wouldn't be backing him up as she so reluctantly is now. Abby had respect for him last year, yes, as every student respects their apprentice. But I don't think Abby was interested in helping him initially. She didn't go to him to be his sponsor, she GREW into his sponsor. There is a BIG difference. Abby didn't offer her help, Carter went to her and sort of dragged it out of her. She's helping him because, well, it's her job. She's gotten used to it. Even if she's genuinely interested in helping him now, that wasn't her initial intention, and that says a lot.

Quote:

"And then later when her mother came in town, Luka wasn't the least bit concerned with her issues to even know there were any yet, and Abby took the oportunity to talk with Carter about it instead, more openly than we've seen her speak with anyone else. "

Again, Carter was just there, he wasn't her first choice. She went to Luka for help, he wasn't available, so she took Carter as a last mean. The way she was talking to him by the river was as if she was talking to Joe Doe. Anyone could have been sitting besides her, and she would have said exactly the same thing. Maybe if Luka would have been there for her, she would have been more open. Probably, since she wanted HIM to be the listener. We'll never know, though.

Quote:

"I also see alot of potential w / Carter and Deb to though,"

I would rather see him with Chen, it would be more interesting. They share a history, and they don't agree on everything. They're like oil and water, whereas Abby and Carter are water and water. Still, I really want to see Carter with someone from outside the hospital. Someone who loves him, and needs him, and is not with him because she would feel like she owed him one for being there for her also. Someone who's not an addict, and would have to learn to live with his addiction, and to accept him for whom he is. I want to see him start a relationship from scratch, not from friendship, from the very beginning.

Maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit, maybe Luka won't change, maybe when he does, he'll get rid of Abby. Maybe he's meant to be alone forever. I don't know what's going to happen, I can only speculate. The truth is that a Carter/Abby relationship can be resolved in one episode or two. A relationship between Luka and Abby can produce much more scripts. I'm not trying to get my two favorite characters together. I want a couple that makes me scream at the television every week, and leaves cliffhangers, and gives us uncertainties as to what is going to happen in the next few episodes. If they choose the Carter/Abby path, we all know what's going to happen already... marriage. Luka/Abby? Who knows. They may last, they may not. Both characters are so unstable that it's impossible to second guess what will happen between them, and that's good television.

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 18, 2000.

Wow, you totally picked apart most of what I wrote! Not that I mind, that's what this board is for and I respect your opinion. I see every one of your points; my only problem is that the writers have not convinced me to be interested in any way with Abby and Luka's relationship. It's awkward, odd, and there's no communication, which says right away to me, bad relationship. Carolina, I think you took one thing wrong with my post, I meant that the writers were doing a horrible job of their relationship, not the characters themselves. I realize that the relationship is very fresh and perhaps the writers have it worked out that they will fix up Luka so that he's a better match for Abby. I can agree with you also, in that Carter and Abby could become that cute couple...I was thoroughly disappointed with Doug and Carol in the 4th and 5th season, when there was little to do with them than fight over going to Christmas mass, throw in Carol's betraying kiss with Powell, or throw in a pregnancy scare. ANd I wouldn't want it to happen again, because I am anticipating the moment when they give Carter a commited relationship, and have high expectations, whether it is Abby or Deb...I am hoping one of them. But this could happen with Abby and Carter or Abby and Luka. Luka is very complex, but I think Carter is too...he has family problems the writers could go into so much depth with, he has a history of substance abuse, they still need to deal w/ his emotional issues, IMO, etc. Plus there is my shallow biase that I just favor Carter above the rest of them, and I want to see him happy! I don't see him as desperate for Abby's attention (not suggesting that's what you meant :) ), just as trying to make up for what he didn't do last year, which was ask *anyone* for help. Abby got him to rehab, purely by accident, and Carter is reaching out to her now, since he sees her as someone he can trust and confide in. That is a true developing friendship.

So I do see your point, I just do not agree with all of it, which is fine. I will agree with you though, with all of these different opinions, it is much more exciting to *wonder* where the writers are going with stories every week. I highly doubt that the writers will get into a Carter/Luka/Abby triangle though...I think that would be demoting for each of these characters, since I think they are all mature enough characters to stay free of this. But you never know. :)

-- Elaine (mrsclooney78@hotmail.com), December 18, 2000.

I give you that, Elaine. The writers do have a way of disappointing the audience, so I wouldn't be surprised if a triangle does develop. The reason why I don't want this to happen, is because I know Carter will end up being hurt, because I don't think Abby is interested in him at all. I don't want Carter to fail in another relationship, we've seen that tooo many times. So the best way to prevent this, is to get him someone from outside the hospital. I don't see Abby giving Carter what he wants, which is to settle down. She has too many issues and she's certainly not ready to spontaneously jump into a relationship, whereas she can build one with Luka. Carter is in the last steps of his development, Abby is just beginning. After this addiction story, the writers will get him a girl, a family, and good bye Carter. I don't think Noah will hang around until 2004, and in a way, I don't want him too, because they will destroy his character if he does.

I actually like this rock bottom/shattered/miscommunicated relationship Luka and Abby are having because that is something they have to work on, and it gives us storylines. I'm gonna use a little analogy to explain this. Pretend this is like a puzzle, where you have to start at the beginning and have to break your head to finish. Carter and Abby have reached a point in which their puzzle is nearly done. They're not even a couple, and yet they already have nothing else to work on, except for maybe Abby's reluctance to open up. Luka and Abby haven't even started their puzzle yet, because they started it with the wrong pieces. Now they have to put those down and figure out which pieces are the best to start with, once they do, they will have to continue to figure out which pieces go together. If Maura and Goran stay until 2004, this can at least hold some of the show together, and some of the interest of the audience.

:) I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, though. You want Carter to be happy and finally settle, therefore you see this through his eyes. I want two new characters to get my interest. I see this through my eyes. I want to be amused, and I know Carter and Abby are not going to fulill me that way. I was never a D/C fan and I always wanted to have my little version of them, meaining I want to be fans with a couple which struggles, which at one point dislike each other, which don't start on the right foot, which fight about important AND trivial things, which break up and then get together again only to break up, which love each other. Carter's not my favorite character, and let me point right now for the record that I DON'T hate him. Because Abby is a new character, and Luka is too, I want their development to go in sync (which it is anyway) and I want them to settle their relationship slowly. I just don't see how the writers are going to resolve all of Abby's problems in time for her to hook up with Carter and they can leave the show in a year and a half. If you give the writers an 18 month deadline to get Carter married, then Abby might be a good choice. It would still be boring, because they have already resolved their non existent issues together, but it would give Carter what he wants. It wouldn't be fair to Abby or Maura, because Abby would become a character they brought in to usher Carter out and would have many unresolved issues. That's why it bothers me so much. Abby and Carter together looks too much like they are giving Carter something. Abby and Luka together looks more like they are giving them both something, they are both equal, because they came to the show at the same time and are developed in the same manner. It works better because the writers wouldn't have to hurry Abby's development so she could usher Carter out.

Even when I look this through the writer's eyes, Luka and Abby work out better. Their relationship will go on much slower, much more rockier, and much more interesting. But it's all about how you see it. People who want Carter to settle already chose Abby because they're already nearly there.

Again, I'm not playing favorites with any character. I don't care about Carter's future, I don't care about Abby's need of love, I don't care about Luka's introversion. I want to be interested in a couple, and I know that if the writers keep Abby with Luka, I will.

By the way, thanks for being mature about this. I always get immatured out by Carter fans, I don't know what that's about. I've always said that opinions are like bellybuttons, everyone has one and we all have to accept that some are uglier than the others :)

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 18, 2000.

Carolina, what an excellent and well thought out post. I totally agree with your assessment too.

I was all for Luka and Abby to get together at first, but after the last epi I kind of changed my mind. But I see that there is so much to explore with them. I think Luka aches to have someone to love again and to take care of. But Abby has no idea how to handle anyone caring for her -- she has never had that in her entire life. I think Luka certainly has feelings for her and is NOT using her just for sex. I think she needs him but doesn't know how to accept his love (or interest in her).

I don't want to see Carter and Abby together. I think they should have a relationship , but NOT as lovers. You were right on when you talked about how Abby never seeks Carter out, he always seeks her out. She is reluctant to share with him. I would like to see her really help him through this addiciton (though I am not sure she is in a good place in her life to be of much help), but I don't want them hopping into bed. And isn't it a bad idea for two recovering addicts to get together? I just remember on Party of Five when Bailey dated a recovering alcoholic that everytime one of them would fall off the wagon it seems the other was never strong enough to help them back up and would fall off too. I am not so sure that they would be as "boring" of a couple as M&E because with the addictions in their pasts and their totally different backgrounds would come some interesting storyline set-ups over time.

I really don' think Abby and Carter are a good match. I don't think Abby is attracted to him in that way. I mentioned in another post that Abby needs someone dark and mysterious and that Carter may be too "boring" for her...she needs excitement in her life. That is a direct correlation to her upbringing. She even said she liked the excitement her mother's problem brought to her childhood. Carter can't give her that. But maybe Luka with his dark, mysterious ways can.

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), December 18, 2000.

I heard a rumor that they're going to bring on someone new to be Carter's love interest, later this season. If true, it would make sense. If Noah Wyle is leaving next season, and they want to have him settle down and get married when he leaves, and the show is continuing on in his absence, they aren't going to have his true love be one of the characters who are staying, would they?

-- Beth (beekster@aol.com), December 18, 2000.

I was thinking no matter how much I say that I get sick of tired of the characters in the ER dating each other, part of me needs it to that way. One of the reason's that I liked Doug and Carol so much was that I was invested in both characters. The problem that occurs when an outside love interest is brought on (like Elaine etc.) is that I'm more invested in one character than the other (I think this is different when they have long term recurring characters like Jacki and Jen) and so I couldn't care less about how successful the relationship is. One of the reason's that Luka and Abby are interesting (no matter how dysfunctional) is that you see more than just their relationship. With Abby we see her trying to have an relationship with her mother, coping having to put off her final year of medical school, etc., with Luka we see him trying to deal with killing someone. It would be boring and one sided if we saw all of Abby's problems, but only saw Luka in the context of their relationship. That's why the Kim and Kerry thing doesn't do much for me, although it seems as if Kim is staying longer than anticipated so perhaps I will change my mind. Gone are the days where the cast was small enough to bring in recurring characters and actually give them some development (like Shep) especially with all the high profile starts.

-- Emma (webbef@hotmail.com), December 18, 2000.

My, what a maelstrom. At the risk of putting tacking concentric circles to my post here goes: I think Carter needs a relationship where he is the adult. His is a great character (his finest moment the day the power failed and he took charge) but Abby has been around the block already, Carter is just turning his first corner. Carter is still at the 'let's talk about it' stage. When something goes wrong he goes running to talk about it and he treats others the same way. Not that that is a bad thing but I believe that a relationship hits a positive milestone when two people can be together and not have to say anything and yet still have a connection and I think that Abby and Luka are at that stage. Carter is closer to Deb's stage in life. Granted having had a child she a bit ahead of the game but he was there with her. You could almost see them grow together as the episode developed. I think that is where Carter belongs. Oh, and to the suggestion of bringing in outsiders for relationships? Not more characters, please! I'm barely hanging is as it is. LOL

-- M Nelson (naata42@hotmail.com), December 18, 2000.

Wow, you sure opened a can of worms didn't ya ;-)

I think your comments are right on Carolina.

I was a nurse for 12 years BK (before kids) and I worked for a little while with adult children of dysfunctional families (alcohol/drug abuse and mental disorders). These people never knew stability growing up and they want it, then when they find someone stable they don't know how to handle it. That scene at the beginning of "The Dance We Do" was classic. She wanted out of that room so bad....she didn't know what to do with Luka who represents stability to her. Granted Luka has issues too but he's basically a stable person (what they've let us see of him so far).

I don't know if a relationship between Abby and Carter could last. Two addicts together rarely works, aside from addiction, what else do they have in common? Carter and Deb have a lot more in common and I think she could probably keep him on the straight and narrow. When did they move to the kissy friends stage??? Only one more step to the "more than kissy friends" stage ;-)

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year ladies (and gents)!!

-- J cole (jcole@austin.rr.com), December 18, 2000.

"I don't think Noah will hang around until 2004, and in a way, I don't want him too, because they will destroy his character if he does."

I totally agree. Part of the reason Carter's storyline kept me enthralled for so many years was because I've wanted to see him grow from a med student to a doctor. Watching it was fun, and now that he's already a doctor, once the addiction storyline is done, and we've seen his final growth, per se, I don't really see what more can be done with him. It would tarnish the enjoyment and the wonderful growing storyline if they started giving him various other riduculous problems like they're giving Mark just because they want him on the show. In my opinion, I believe that Carter's purpose on the show will be over once he finishes his residency, or if they want to show him as a fellow or attending for one year more, but that's it.

I'm probably repeating what everyone else is saying, but the reason Abby and Luka will work is A) they're *both* new characters, and it may be a while before they'll be recognized as the super couple of the ER, but they'll both grow together, and we'll learn things about them through 2004. However, we've already seen Carter grow, and if they pair him up with Abby, we'll never see *Abby* grow (into someone who's more stable, more secure). We'll just be seeing Abby as she is now, for another year or so, until NOah leaves the show, perhaps, and that would be major waste of a potentially interesting character, and a good actress.

(BTW, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that Wyle is probably getting a little tired of playing Carter-- it shows in his acting now. His portrayal of Carter in some episodes is down right off target; either that, or the actor can't handle challenging storylines.)

A little OT, but lastly-- I'd like Luka's and Abby's relationship to be gradual. They kind of jumped into bed right away, and so far that hasn't been successful, and rather superficial, so I think they need to take one step back and actually get to know one another because I don't think they know anything about each other at this point.

And also, in regards to a Carter romance/storyline, I don't particularly care who TPTB pair him up with... Deb would be nice, but their friendship is too good to sacrifice, or another person outside of the hospital (or maybe a different department), but for once I"d like Carter's *romance plotline* to be a major up front storyline on the show. In the past, he's always gotten casual flings, that no one really cared about, and were basically secondary things to other major storylines he was in. But, if Carter's next relationship will be the decisive one for him, I'd want it to be treated the same way Mark's and Elizabeths is being treated, or maybe a bit like Doug and Carol's, which is to say, with some importance, so that it's different from the other relationships he's been with.

-- samira (matb_west@chickmail.com), December 18, 2000.

I hope we see Noah stay on ER until the very last episode. I can't picture ER without Carter . I think Noah is still doing a terrific job portraying Carter. Noah is a wonderful actor and along with Laura Innes the best actors on ER. I still think there is a lot they can could with Carter once he finishes his residency. I am very interested in seeing such a thing. There are all sorts of personal and professional storylines they could do that I think if written well, it would interest the vast majority of ER fans.

I would love to see Carter settle down in a wonderful relationship with a woman. I think If Matria Bello had remained on ER that we would have seen them in a serious, long term, intersting relationship.I think Carter has been ready to be in a serious relationship for a long time . I don't think Carter has a problem with committment. I think Carter just has not been involved with the right woman. I think Carter needs to recover more from what happened and then I will be ready to see him start dating again. I hope Carter's next relationship is a nice one with a wonderful woman. However, I wonder if we might see Carter get involved in one last short term fling as part of his final push to recovery from his ordeal. I wonder if we will get some Carter version of a Mark/Cynthia relationship next and then a serious romance starting next season. I did not dislike Cynthia . I thought Mark was the shelfish user in this relationship, and I thought Cynthia helped Mark in recovering from his own bout with PTSD. I personally see nothing between Abby/Luka and don't think either one of them really has deep feelings for one another. I prefer Carter/Abby to remain as friends. I don't think Luka/Abby would be more intersting than Carter/Abby. I think neither relationship works well as a romance. Luka is certainly not ready for a romance at this stage.

-- Brenda (jckwfan@aol.com), December 18, 2000.

"However, I wonder if we might see Carter get involved in one last short term fling as part of his final push to recovery from his ordeal. "

They did this storyline before with Carter in season 5, when they paired him up with Roxanne, although the circumstances and ordeals were different. Rehashing a storyline of a short-term fling that's doomed from the start is really not what would be beneficial for Carter, or really interesting to start with. I think that TPTB should have Carter recover from his addiction and then work on him having a stable, long-term relationship.

-- samira (matb_west@chickmail.com), December 18, 2000.

Hmm...I'm in favor of Abby and Luka breaking up, since this is obviously a codependent relationship between two psychologically damaged people. Luka's character should be written out by sending the man off for extensive therapy. Someone suffering from this kind of deep-seated psychological trauma is a potential danger to his patients. (If you thought Carter suffered from PTSD...)

Abby and Carter should definitely *not* get together. I don't know if it's been discussed on this board before, but it would be a HUGE violation of the sponsor relationship they have in AA. A person at Carter's stage of recovery is incredibly vulnerable. Addicts come to their sponsors with their lives broken, and they open themselves up to their sponsors so that they can be helped. To have a sexual relationship with your sponsor would be tantamount to the ethical violation committed when psychiatrists sleep with their patients. The nurturing relationship formed between the addict and the sponsor is NOT supposed to turn into a sexual relationship, because this is psychologically damaging and can set back recovery. This is the reason that AA strongly discourages opposite sex pairings with sponsors. When Abby agreed to be Carter's sponsor, she already committed two ethical violations: agreeing to be his sponsor despite being a woman and agreeing despite the fact that she has a major conflict of interest (as a doctor, she is supposed to report Carter's relapse to Kerry in order to protect patients; as the sponsor, she is bound to secrecy). For her to commit a third ethical violation by beginning a sexual relationship with Carter would make her a disgusting human being. It's wrong for any person in the position of a therapist, which a sponsor is, to engage in a sexual relationship with the patient. When you're trusted with the responsibility of care of another's psyche, you should have the utmost respect for that duty.

-- Laura Lindstrom (llindstr@law.harvard.edu), December 19, 2000.

Laura, I agree with you in everything you said!!!

-- Lizmia (sweetliz141@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Laura- Did you ever watch "Party Of Five"? Bailey was a recovering alcoholic and dated (I can't remember her name) someone from AA and ended up living together. So Abby and Carter dating while Abby is his sponser could happen. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it could happen.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), December 19, 2000.

Cammie...Don't forget how disastrous that relationship was on Party of Five. They were terrible for each other. It would be terrible for Abby and Carter to get together too. I think Laura said it very well.

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), December 19, 2000.

Yes, that's true. Like I said in my last post I'm not saying that I would agree that Abby and Carter should date while she's his sponser but it might happen.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), December 19, 2000.

"Hmm...I'm in favor of Abby and Luka breaking up, since this is obviously a codependent relationship between two psychologically damaged people. Luka's character should be written out by sending the man off for extensive therapy. Someone suffering from this kind of deep-seated psychological trauma is a potential danger to his patients. (If you thought Carter suffered from PTSD...)"

I disagree here. This is most definitely not a codependency relationship. Abby doesn't depend on Luka, and Luka doesn't depend on Abby. Right now they're not depending on anyone. I agree that both characters are psychologically damaged, but they're two characters who are developing on their own and outside of their relationship. When Luka has problems, he doesn't go to Abby and vice versa, they're not going to anyone, and that's the problem.

That is the reason why I would like their relationship. Right now, Abby and Carter are not a couple, and already his problems have become hers, because she's his sponsor and his solace. If they ever hooked, Carter's problems would overshadow Abby's, because let's face it, this is the Carter Show, and the audience concentrates more on his problems than in anybody else's. When George Clooney left, suddenly Carol was left in mid air because for that time they were together, they were both defined through their relationship, Carol more so than Doug. Carol didn't have much problems and she tagged along to Doug's. His problems became hers because they went through them together, and when he left, she suddenly had no plot, they had nothing to do with her, and so they gave her that mistake of a storyline that was a pregnancy. This is what I see happening with Carter and Abby. Luka and Abby already have problems they are each dealing with on their own. I see Luka, and I don't see "The guy who is sleeping with Abby", and vice versa. So, if they became dependent on the other, it would be ok, because none of them will ever understand the other's misfortunes. Abby might help Luka with his problems, but they wouldn't become hers, mostly because she doesn't know what he's going through, and neither does he. Abby doesn't know what it's like to survive a war, and Luka doesn't know what it's like to grow without a dad and having a bipolar mother. Abby knows what it's like to be an addict, and because she does, she's already around 75% of Carter's storyline, if not more. So no matter how much Abby tries to help Luka, or Luka Abby, they might become each other's source of relief (a shelter from the storm if you will), but not what they need to get over their psychological problems. They might run to each other for comfort, but their problems were created outside of their relationship and even before they met, therefore, they will never be defined through their relationship. Hope I made sense there, I just woke up :)

I don't see Luka as psychologically damaged as people see him, at least not enough to be locked in a mental institution as you suggest. I imagine that after the death of his family he might have gone through a PTSD phase, and I reiterate the use of the word "might", but that is certainly not what he's going through now. What's happening to Luka is a good old regression. He left a war torn country in which for years there was violence everywhere, even worse, he lived in Vukovar. When he killed that mugger, he sort of went back home, metaphorically. I don't know if he fought in the war, but is it possible that Luka had to kill a man while he was home? Possibly, given the severity of the conflict in 1991. I think he realized that no matter how many times he ran away to other countries or states, he's never going to escape the reality of what happened back home. I think it's pretty obvious that he was not the Luka we know while he was killing that man. I don't think he was having a flashback, but I think that back home he lost people he cared about and was not able to do something for them. Now that they were both in danger, he saw that he could do something about it, and he did. He wasn't just doing it for Abby, he was doing it for all the people he lost back home when he couldn't help them, and he took his aggression out on the mugger. It doesn't mean he's a "psycho" either, it means that he still has some anger he needs to release. For Luka, it meant the realization that he can never escape who he is. A lot of people critiziced this mugger storyline, myself incluided. But I am now realizing that this is what Luka needs to move on. He was living in a world of make believe, and this is the wake up call he needed. There's no where to go but up now. I think that Luka will definitely change for the better now. I hope so anyway.

I don't think Luka endangers patients either, nor do I think he needs to be sent off to intensive therapy. Believe it or not, most people find relieve outside of the branches of medicine. Religion is the most widely used method for mental reconstruction, rapidly being substituded by doctors, other people turn to those loved ones, some people, surprisingly, can do it alone. I think, and this is my opinion, he would need to go a psychologist only if he had a very severe mental disorder, which he doesn't. What Luka needs is to let it all out. He needs to tell someone everything that happened. He told Kerry one thing, and he told Carol another. I don't think he was telling the truth to either one of them. The writers are not that stupid. I think that whatever happened, it was much more severe than those stories. Maybe it had a little to do with him? I don't know, but I get a little hint of self blaming. Maybe we'll hear the real story when that bishop comes along? Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Now, I think the best thing for Luka and Abby right now is to "break up", if there's anything to break, take their time, and start all over again. This path their are going is not impossible to work out, but no matter how they start, they're on for a rocky ride, so it would be best if they rewinded and started on the right step again.

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Another very good and well thought out post. I think you might be on to something with the Bishop and that upcoming storyline. I sure hope so! I can't wait until those upcoming epi's. I believe Jim Cromwell is signed up for a few epis.

-- amanda (amanda.rehm@home.com), December 19, 2000.

Forgot to add, Laura, that I agree with what you said about Abby's ethics as a sponsor. Not to mention that if they ever got together, they'll alway have to be bringing that up, Abby will always have something to rub in Carter's face.

The relationship wouldn't work because of their previous arrangement (sponsor/addict), and their dependency on the other wouldn't work because of their relationship. A relationship between those two at this moment is not only boring, but unethical. It's just wrong.

I thought Abby was Carter's temporary sponsor? Didn't he agreed to look for someone else in the meantime? What's up with that?

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Well, I'm sorry, maybe it's just me, but in my book, someone who snaps and murders some guy who tries to snag his girlfriend's purse qualifies as seriously disturbed to me. But hey, maybe I'm just out of step with the times. Maybe it's become normal to kill someone on the spot for committing a misdemenor.

(Okay, I'm being sarcastic here, but I do have a point. I realize that a lot of people like the Luka character--I even have a soft spot for him--but I would never, ever want a guy this emotionally conflicted for my doctor. A guy who has a reaction this severe does need some kind of serious help from someone with training who can counsel him--shrink, priest, whoever. I like Luka too, but not enough to apologize for the fact that he snapped and murdered someone with his bare hands.)

Supervising doctors are supposed to help their colleagues and protect patients by not allowing mentally troubled doctors to practice. Doctors can get their licenses yanked for mental health reasons. I find it troublesome that no other doctor in the ER has even suggested that Luka get help. His violent outburst was just as much a cry for help as was Carter's addiction to painkillers, and I find it troublesome that they have at least an inkling of what happened that night to the mugger (and Abby knows for sure), yet none of them has stepped up to the plate to try to help Luka. They're not doing him or his patients any favors by ignoring the problem.

-- Laura Lindstrom (llindstr@law.harvard.edu), December 19, 2000.

Oh, I'm not justifying his outburst at all. But the fact that he showed he was remorseful about it, and still is, demonstrates that his initial intention was not to kill the guy, I mean, you could see it in his face that he was in some sort of trance. He would be endangering patients if at one point he couldn't tell the difference between right or wrong, if there was something as the use of drugs, alcohol, or a serious mental disorder that intervened with his daily routines, or if he was deliberately doing it on purpose.

This is actually a very complicated issue, and yes, Luka does need psychological help, but there's no reason to lock him up in a mental institution or prevent him from attending to patients because his condition is not that serious. He just needs to move on. That, at one point or another, is true of every human being. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would do well with doctors, but religion seems like something which might help him. With psychological help, you usually have to accept that there's something wrong with you and seek the help yourself, sort of like an addiction. The miraculous things about religion, is that it usually comes to you when you're not expecting it, makes you realize what is going on with you, wakes you up, and then you move on. Which method is better? I don't know because I have never had to seek that kind of help. But for a guy like Luka who is so stubborn, a gentle approach such as religion helps better, because he wouldn't see it coming and wouldn't feel ambushed.

Luka is not my favorite character, and I am not hero worshipping him at all. But when Carter became an addict, no one blamed him for that, and although he WAS endangering patients, he was being defended left and right. I see Luka's problem much as Mark's attack. Mark was never so seriously mental that he was endangering patients. He might have become cold and distant, but he was still a competent doctor. Everyone knew about his problem, and they asked him to seek help, but, if I recall correctly, he was never threatened with being kept out of work because, as Carter, he killed or almost killed a patient (again, if I recall correctly).

Luka and his storyline is how you see it. Some people are very moral and do not justify murder with anything. Some people understand that there might be circumstances and factors that might drive you to it. This is exactly why we have jurors on trials, why it takes so long to procecute a person, and why President Clinton wants to know what you mean by the word "is".

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Bottom line: Mark and Carter never came *close* to killing anyone. I don't care why Luka did it. If he didn't know what he was doing at the time, does that make it any better? How can he just "move on" from an event that by definition he was unable to control? It could happen again at any moment! I find it hard to believe anyone can say with a straight face that if Luka flips out and kills someone with little provocation, but feels bad about it later, that means he doesn't have a serious problem. What happens if he gets a violent patient in the ER? We've seen them a zillion times. What if he happens to kick Abby as he struggles to be freed from restraints? Gee, I'd be worried that Luka might flip out and stab the guy in the neck with a scalpel!

A guy who flips into "kill" mode at the slightest threat to a friend or loved one isn't safe around anyone--patients, civilians, other doctors. His friends should realize he needs help and try to get it for him, just like Carter's friends got him help. I don't buy that religion is going to help him enough here. When you can't control your actions, you have a severe psychological problem and you need professional medical help. If Luka really feels bad that he murdered the guy, he should be willing to put aside that pesky dislike of being doctored that you speculate he has and get some help so that he doesn't do it again.

I don't buy that any person who kills on purpose can "just get over" the feelings that made him/her do it. Or the feelings that having done that horrendous act engenders. (Unless they're a sociopath, and Luka's not a sociopath.)

To respond to an earlier point: Luka and Abby are co-dependent in the sense that they're using each other to avoid facing their deep personal problems. When you know that you can run off to someone who won't make you face the fact that you're a killer or your mother is a nut, you're in a relationship with a person who is enabling your problems, and that's co-dependency.

-- Laura Lindstrom (llindstr@law.harvard.edu), December 19, 2000.

Again, this is how you wanna see it.

-- trustno1 (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Sorry, got cut off.

Again, this is how you wanna see it. Obviously you have very high morals and you don't condemn him killing a person, whatever the reason was. And that's ok, I'm not trying to have you change your mind, I'm simply giving my opinion. I have been around many psych patients, I didn't grow up in the United States, therefore, I understand his reasons. I know what it's like to be Luka, and I know what it's like to be Abby because I also grew up in a very dysfunctional family (if it can be called that). I don't justify murder, but I can see it through a different angle, and trust me, Luka is not a man who walks around killing people. And if I were his patient, I wouldn't be scared of him.

BTW, Carter endangered that woman last year when he gave her a medication she was allergic to.

As for Abby and Luka's relationship, I don't see it as codependency because even if they are running to each other right now, for whatever reason, it's not working, and so it becomes a waste of time. If it were working, then Abby wouldn't have run as fast as she did from his room in TDWD to go to HER mother, the source of her problems. She's not even running to Carter, she's trying to deal with this by herself, and so is Luka. And as I said before, even if they became codependent, it would be ok because they both have problems that have nothing to do with the other. They can offer each other comfort, but one is never going to completely help the other move on, and I do mean this is a psychological manner, as Abby is helping Carter with the sponsor/addict method. That whole romance movie: "I was screwed up before you came into my life, now all my problems are gone", is not realistic. Love does alleviate problems, but temporarily, they still have to patch those wounds from the past by themselves, either by seeking psychological help, religion, suicide, etc...

Hope I made sense there, I'm kinda sleepy today. And as I said, it really depends on how you see it, everyone has different opinions and views, and therefore, not two people can completely agree on everything. Peace!

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Mark was shown to be incompetent and endangering his patients at times during his bout with PTSD. At least 4 patients that Mark treated early in season four returned to the ER at a later date with Serious complications for Ilnesses that Mark either misdiagnosed or blew off when he had seen them earlier. This does not include the patients that Mark misdiagnosed that other Drs. realized his mistakes and helped the patient themselves before they were dishcharged. Mark did well in treating some patients , but did a lousy job with others. Mark was very erratic with patients the first 6-7 episodes of season four. Mark was very lucky that he was not charged with malpractice during this time

-- Brenda (jckwfan@aol.com), December 19, 2000.

Just wanted to add my $.02 worth.

I don't think that the others in the ER know what happened when Luka killed the mugger. All they saw was Luka being concerned when the paramedics brought the man in, and overwhelmed when he died. Only Abby saw Luka lose control, and I think that after having grown up with her mother, she 1) doesn't see it as bad as others might and 2) might be leery of psychiatric intervention. (BTW Caroline, I see a psychologist is less intrusive than psychiatric help.)

I think in the long run Luka is going to need some pretty serious conselling and/or self-help group. But does he pose a danger to patients? IMHO, I don't think so. But I would think carefully about dating him, in spite of his bedroom eyes. But then, I'm not Abby, who probably sees herself as 'saving someone' (a common shortfall amongst the medical and teaching professions). Just IMHO.

-- Kate (yfpy0050@yorku.ca), December 19, 2000.

I was never defending Carter and Mark...you folks are right when you say they endangered patients. Other doctors should step in when that happens, to get troubled doctors help (preferrably before they hurt anyone!). They stepped in for Carter..don't remember with Mark, but they should have...and Abby, who knows what went down, should talk to Luka about getting some help. She's not just a friend, she's a doctor, and both those things should lead her to the conclusion that this is NOT just another event you can "move on from".

I would hope that *everyone* would have the kind of "very high morals" that consist of not being able to condone a murder/manslaughter without at the very least getting psych help for the person who did it. In the criminal law, when you do what Luka did and get caught, you're either sane and go to prison, or you get sentenced to psych help. Well, he didn't get caught, but Abby should realize how serious the situation is and let Luka know she thinks he needs help. Furthermore, as another doctor, she has responsibilities to the patients, and if he does become a danger to patients, she has to let Mark and Kerry and Romano.

-- Laura Lindstrom (llindstr@law.harvard.edu), December 20, 2000.

Again, Laura, I totally agree with you!

sorry, this is completely OT, but, speaking of "Party of five", does sb know the name of the actor that played neve campbell's gorgeous husband? (again, sorry, OT...)

-- Lizmia (sweetliz141@aol.com), December 20, 2000.

What a difference in opinions! While everyone of these comments make sense, everything is very thought out. That's not what love or romance is supposed to be. Abby's not going to sit back and pick the guy who fits with her lifestyle better, or who will make her more or less dependent. She'll fall in love with who she falls in love with. If things with her and Luka stay as distant as they are now from each other, I hope she realizes this and they end it nicely. Whether she realizes Carter is the one for her or if she wants to remain friends with him, we will see then too. I realize it's against the rules of AA, but she how many stories of forbidden love do we know? She'd have to stop being his sponsor. There's nothing wrong with depending on another a little, as long as it doesn't control your life. Everyone likes someone to come home to to vent to, though Abby and Luka are not like this at all. Lizmia, Jeremy London played Griffin...he was great and I wished she'd stayed with him at the end!

As for the POF relationship, that relationship ended because her ex- husband came back and wanted to be a family again, not because of the co-dependency. Although I completely understand the rules of AA and 13th stepping, i just wanted to point that out.

-- Elaine (mrsclooney78@hotmail.com), December 20, 2000.

Who cares if Carter OR Luka isn't right for Abby? Perfect relationships are great in real life, but this isn't real life, it's a dramatic show. In real life, Mark and Elizabeth would be perfect. On the show, they're boring -- the writers have to introduce cataclysmic outside events to make them even remotely interesting. I would love to see Carter and Abby's relationship get more intense, which doesn't necessarily mean sleeping together, although it could. Something passionate and heartfelt and maybe even *wrong* (although I wouldn't want it to be destructively wrong). Am I the only one who found their intense conversation in the drug lockup last week to be terribly sexy? The writers were not trying to make it that way, but it was. Not overtly sexy, but well, ooh, I wouldn't mind seeing more. Luka and Abby's dysfunctional relationship is interesting and realistic, although I would prefer something a little more dynamic and intense. I think we're all just looking for vivid human contact. I can see why some people are gaga over Deb and Carter together, because there's a nice intimacy between them and both actors seem really into it as well, playing their characters. But happy, stable relationships that are "smart" and "right"? There's no dramatic future in it. The only future such a couple has to look forward to, in the world of ER, is what Mark and Elizabeth are going through. Ehhh, I'll pass.

-- Ellen (eedgert1@twcny.rr.com), December 20, 2000.

I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect relationship in the real world. I hope they're trying to portray a more realistic relationship with Luka and Abby. Hopefully, most of us don't have THAT many negatives (or of that severity) against us right off the bat but it's been known to happen. The whole point is seeing them work through this stuff and still end up together. I think they could have a decent chance of making it if TPTB let us see a little more communication between them and not so much sex. I guess they're letting Mark and Elizabeth communicate right now, we can't have 2 successful couples on one show.....God forbid ;-)

-- J cole (jcole@austin.rr.com), December 21, 2000.

What everyone is forgetting here is that relashionships mean different things for different people. Carolina has a totally different view than I do, would we pick the same type of person? I don't think so. For Carter a relashionship is about being comfortable, and we don't know what it is for Abby yet. And I don't think that Carter and Abby agree with everything. Must I point out the type Abby wanted to call security and Carter questioned that. She got anoyed! But after they got over it, talked about it. For me a relashinship is about having small fights or disagreements and then getting over them. Luka is going nowhere with Abby. Let's face reality, everytime you see them together its as if they wonder why there together. I'm not saying I want Abby to get confused between Carter and Luka, I'm saying it's quite obvious that Abby and Luka are through, it's just a fling. They'll both move on. Personally I think Carter should get a little farther ahead in recovery then persue a relashionship. Carter and Abby both have problems that they can help eachother with, and their both attractive. And By the way can someone tell me where they found out that Carter is leaving next season. All of a sudden I read this. Is it even true? If so tell me where I can find info, preferably not from the National Enquirer!

-- Andrea (andre_lafreniere_ca@yahoo.ca), December 21, 2000.

I hate doing this for spelling errors, but this is a biggie: it's "relationship," not "relashionship." I don't think you want to go through life spelling this one wrong. :-)

-- Beth (beekster@aol.com), December 22, 2000.

I have to say that was a great peice on the whole Abby/Carter/Luka thing.And I see your point-of-view.But i'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with the whole Abby/Carter thing being a boring relationship.First of all let's look at the Abby/Luka thing it's the most stupid relationship in the history of relationships on ER.OK, I've been watching this show since the end of season 1, and I'm 15 now, so let's just say I've been watching a long time.By the way, I'm like the biggest Carter fan in the world! And as of 2 years ago just became the biggest Abby fan also.So back to Abby/Luka, it's cold very much a big turn-off.Abby needs to be touched and comforted.All her life she's been the one saying, "It'll be OK" And now she needs it to be said to her.And I'm sorry Dr.Luka"dead hearted"Kovak is not that man. Which leads me to believe the writers are setting us up for a season ending where Abby will be screaming for a commitment from Kovak.And being the dead hearted doctor, he won't give to her.So, that leaves one person,the one person who actually was the shoulder she's been crying on all year,the sweet Carter! There will defently be a relationship.The relationship will start off being cute.There will be a lot of talking laying bed scenes.And all that gushy stuff! But,here's where it won't get boring.Of course one of them is going to relapse.Will it be Abby and the beer,or will it be Carter and his morphin?That's what going to keep us on our seats week after week with the Abby/Carter story.And it won't be as boring as you think. And as for the current Abby/Luka story it's as good as over! Good news for us Abby/Carter fans! You see I have an uncle who's on the writing staff on NBC.And he wont actually tell me what's going to happen but I have an idea.

-- Brianne Jackson (MossChick84@AOL.com), December 22, 2000.

Yes, but "NBC" doesn't write the show.

-- Beth (beekster@aol.com), December 22, 2000.

Someone already relapsed, and that was Carter. It doesn't matter that they weren't in his system for long, he took them, and that is a relapse. So, if that was one of the things that would make their relationship interesting, bad news, they already did it, it's off the list. The other thing left is all the mushy/lying in bed/kissy/ scenes... and that's exactly the kind of thing that makes a TV couple boring. It attracts a big chunk of teenagers, but a big chunk of the ER audience are adults. If I wanted to see that, I'd turn to Dawson's Creek.

Abby is not going to ask Luka for commitment because that's not what she's looking for. She doesn't want/can't handle a serious relationship right now. Neither can Luka. Carter might be offering his help, but she's not taking it, therefore, his shoulder isn't serving of much. Besides, if I were to hook with every single guy who is there for me when I need someone, I'd be a hooker. You might not believe this, but some people out there have best friends of the opposite gender, and they have never been tempted to "hook" with that person, myself incluided. You don't choose the people you like or fall in love with. Even if the relationship with Luka wouldn't work, you can't just say something like, "Oh, well. I'll just fall in love with the best next thing, which would be Carter." That's not how love works, and the truth is that Abby is not interested in Carter in that way, and I can't see her falling for him in the future. Carter is not the kind of guy she settles for, if he were, she would at least be attractet to him by now, and she isn't. I think the next thing for Carter is that serious relationship, and marriage. He is a very family oriented guy, and he doesn't go or continue a relationship if he knows it's going to lead nowhere. Abby is not going to give him that, she has way to many unresolved and psychological issues. Therefore, the best thing is to get him with a character who is already as developed as him, or someone from outside of the ER. Prefferably the latter.

I don't want Carter to be with Abby and vice versa because everything that they would have to resolve as a couple, they have already resolved as friends. If they hooked, there's virtually nothing else for the writers to do except Carter's parents dying, Carter proposing, Abby getting pregnant, and then Carter getting a brain tumor.... oh, wait, yeah, that's right, that's Mark and Elizabeth. So, no matter if you're a Carter/Abby fan or not, the truth is that as a couple, they would be boring. It's not a matter of perspective, it's a reality. Trust me, I used to think they would make a cute couple too, but once they became friends, I realized it wouldn't work. I want them to be friends because they actually are great friends, but any kind of romance would be unethical, damaging, codependent, and yes, boring.

That doesn't mean that the writers wouldn't venture and try to do it, but if they do, I'd be really disappointed in the show, and I'd wonder if the writers are grown men or a bunch of teenagers.

Side note: I don't think all teenagers are stupid, and therefore I am reffering to the stupid teenagers I know. Sorry for any spelling mistakes, I'm not wearing my contacts.

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 22, 2000.

First of all I would really like to reply to the nice fellow who had that smart comment to make about how the scripts are not by NBC.I never actually said my uncle wrote the scripts.You see he sits at a desk at the Burbank Studios,and reads the "ER" scripts.His "JOB" is to read them over and make sure they can be aired on an hour show.If not he sends it back to the "WRITERS" and they rewrite it so it can. This might be such an immature thing to say but,"How 'Bout Dem Apples!" Sorry if I affended anyone! Now, SuperCarolina I really see your point about the Carter/Abby thing. And you're right,Carter did relapse but it would make for a great relationship story if Abby relapsed! Common SuperCarolina you have to admmit that! And about your comment how it's an "Adult" show. I'm strongly going to have to disagree with that.I know about 50 people at my "HIGH SCHOOL" that love the show.And you should know that now-a-days these shows, even ER, are trying to reach out to young people.And if that means mushy scenes, so be it!

MY SIDE NOTE: Dawson's Creek is not all about kissing and sex,it's about a young boy trying to grow up as an adult.*Wenesdays 8pm WB* Try watching it!

-- Brianne (MossChick84@AOL.com), December 22, 2000.

"I don't want Carter to be with Abby and vice versa because everything that they would have to resolve as a couple, they have already resolved as friends. "

What exactly have they resolved as friends? All she's done is accept his addiction problem, anyone can do that. But once that's under control, there's this whole rest of the man that she has yet to get to know... and it's not a guarantee that she would accept everything else that Carter's made up of. Carter certainly doesn't approve of the way Abby treats her mother; that's an issue that could provide some conflict. Personally, based on the fact that we've only seen three months of their actual friendship, I don't see how anyone could say there's nothing to be resolved between them. Drug addiction is just *one* thing that has been resolved...there's a lot more to Abby that Carter may not like, and a lot more to Carter that Abby may not like, which would give further material for potential resolution. We also don't know how Carter would react to the fact that Abby's been married, or the divorce.

"Trust me, I used to think they would make a cute couple too, but once they became friends, I realized it wouldn't work. I want them to be friends because they actually are great friends, but any kind of romance would be unethical, damaging, codependent, and yes, boring. "

Love doesn't necessarily follow an agenda, a formula. There's never a guarantee that a romance between Abby and Carter would be TV-drama boring, or the stuff Dawson's Creek is made up of. Just because you think you've seen best friends become boring couples doesn't mean it always happens all the time. Like others have also said, Abby's not going to sit down and draw up a blueprint of why a relationship will not work. You yourself said that you don't choose the people you like/love, Abby's not going to choose not to become involved with Carter because they're already friends.

Another thing I wanted to mention was that just because Abby and Carter are great friends, and enjoy a smooth relationship in that area, doesn't mean that they'd necessarily have a smooth journey in the romance part. From personal experience, after being good friends it's sometimes harder to view yourselves as lovers. You're going to be seeing a whole new person; similarly when Abby views Carter as a partner. She may find the friend Carter boring, but he may be quite a different person when in a romantic relationship.

"That doesn't mean that the writers wouldn't venture and try to do it, but if they do, I'd be really disappointed in the show, and I'd wonder if the writers are grown men or a bunch of teenagers. "

Probably grown men because I don't see a potential Abby/Carter romance anything like what teenage love-affairs are. Any relationship these two have (whether with each other, whether with separate people) will most likely be a mature one, the one grown men have.

"Carter is not the kind of guy she settles for, if he were, she would at least be attractet to him by now, and she isn't. "

She's not supposed to be attracted to him now. She's already in a relationship with Luka; she's not the kind of person who's going be in a relationship with one guy but be attracted to two or three others. Secondly, sometimes a person doesn't realize/become attracted to someone for a while. It's not always love at first sight.

-- samira (matb_west@chickmail.com), December 22, 2000.

As I said before, over and over, it's about perspectives.

I think we're seeing this through different angles. I see it with the fact in my head that Noah is leaving next year, so the writers don't have much time. I know that they can always extend his contract, but I don't think the guy is too overzealous about going down with the ship. He even said that if he had to be unemployed for years due to overexposure "so be it" (but that's another whole topic). If the writers were to hook Carter with Abby, they would have to keep this in mind too, and thus write the relationship in Carter's favor. Meaning, Abby will have to be fully developed in the little time left, unless they both leave the show as a troubled couple, but that's not my point. I think Carter has a lot to learn now, from this drug addiction. I want him to do that alone, though. I don't want someone else (or love) to open his eyes, I want him to do that himself. And after that, I want him to find a nice girlfriend he can have a smooth transition with and ride off into the sunset in May 2003. I have my own ideas of what I want to happen to every character on the show, individually, and I want Carter to be happy finally with someone from outside the hospital. That way Carter will leave the hospital, and he won't damage any characters he would leave behind.

You're right, Samira, if they dig deep down, they can always find something they can disagree on, but I try to think of some and I just don't find any I'd be interested to watch, I reiterate the word *I*. Carter did disagree with her about her mother, but the writers didn't do anything with that back then, and given the fact that Maggie is supposed to come back as a better person and her and Abby will patch things up, that wouldn't go anywhere. It's a nice idea, thought. Elizabeth disagreed with the way Mark treated his father, but that didn't do much for me back then.

What I'm discriminating so much against is that I know that after and if they get together, the writers are going to make it a smooth transition, because Carter is at a point in his development in which we all know what the next step is. Didn't Noah Wyle say around September that he wants the writers to get him a girlfriend, a marriage, a house and a baby all in this two years? (Seasons 7 & 8). I see their relationship given all that, and I doubt the writers will make it rocky.

You're right about all you said regarding love. I'm no stranger to it, not an expert either. Love is unpredictable and makes you do weird things. But, if we're going to have a discussion about love, we'd never end. I guess I was trying to see it (love) through this triangle, should have made that clear, sorry. What I am against, is the thought of Abby waking up one morning and realizing love (Carter) has been under her nose all this time. And although that happens in real life, I find it rather cheesy, and it's the kind of thing that makes me roll my eyes. You might like it, and that's great, but I don't. I guess I just don't like relationships that start with friendship, or maybe I do, but I find the romance rather smooth(which is great in real life, doesn't sell many shares on TV). Again, that's another thing I believe and apparently no one else does. I like TV romances that start as immediate attractions because I love to see two people knowing each other, resolving issues, and overcoming faults, together and at the same time separately, as the relationship progresses. That's why I lean on the Luka/Abby side.

But hey, this is ER, the number one show on television, who knows what the writers are going to pull out of their asses. Whatever they do, they're not going to please everyone, I just hope one of those disappointed people is not me. I'm simply just voicing my opinion, what I would like and would not like to see. I think as a fan I have the right to do that, right? I'm glad you are too, I love hearing what people have to say. Sorry, I have this way of being misunderstood EVERYWHERE I go because I tend to not explain my arguments. Should start doing that, huh? :)

Brianne: I don't find a couple of people relapsing over and over in the course of their relationship interesting. I don't want Abby to relapse either, I think she is weak enough as it is. This acomplishment she has (sober for 5 years), is something that she can look at and help her boost her confidence a little. She has too low of a self esteem as it if and has too many failures (as a daughter, wife, student, girlfriend), imagine what she would be like if she failed at yet another thing... can we say suicide? It's too much angst, I don't wanna see it.

Anyway, my initial position remains the same (I'm very stubborn like that), and I hope everyone realizes I didn't start this thread to change anyone's mind, I wanted to let you all know how I felt, and to hear what other people thought too. Thanks to all of those who posted!

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 22, 2000.

Hey Carolina: I see where your coming from with the whole love at first sight thing. And I can understand how the friendship thing before a relationship thang can get a little boring.But you have to really look at the Luka/Abby relationship. What honestly can happen in 13 more episodes. I believe if the writers really want this relationship to prolong they would have written more scenes dealing with them.And not more scenes dealing with Carter and Abby.They want you to see them as these two "friends" who lean on eachother when it gets a little tuff. And you got to take last weeks episode into consideration. Abby wakes up in the middle of the night. And instead of waking up this man she's supposed to be falling in love with and talking to him. She goes into the bathroom and silently cries her eyes out. Now Carolina what does that tell you about the relationship. It's just not going anywhere. I'll give it this season, but if there's no progress by the end,you can bet next year it's all about Carter and Abby.And thats why I'm leaning for a Carter/Abby relationship.

-- Brianne (MossChick84@AOL.com), December 23, 2000.

Oh man, I keep having to explain this over and over. Am I not making myself clear? Or are people not reading the previous posts? I don't know...

Brianne: I have nothing against the Carter/Abby friendship, I enjoy it as much as the next guy. But I want them to remain friends, period. Can we have a man and a woman talk to the other without having the writers throw them into bed? Is that too much to ask? Please? The writers are just sending the point across that men and women cannot be friends without one being attracted to the other at one point. I think Mark and Carol have been the only ones (friends who were REALLY close), and I liked that. I want it to be that way for Carter and Abby too. I'm getting really sick of the writer's attempt to make this show a romantic orgy. If they already put Luka and Abby together, they should keep them and make it work.

Even if Carter is there for her, she's not opening up to him either. She's not leaning on Carter and she's not leaning on Luka. Her mother came and Carter offered his shoulder, Luka didn't. She didn't take either. Now, I don't know if you can call it friendship when one of the parties is reluctant to open up to the other. She wanted to open up with Luka. Will she learn to open up to Carter? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. Maybe I'm the only one who is seeing it, but I don't think it's even a two way friendship. If you wanna know more about how I feel about that, feel free to venture up a couple of posts, where I already talked about this.

I actually like how non conventional the Luka/Abby relationship is at this moment, because as I said before, I WANT to see a VERY rocky relationship. Isn't that something they would have to work on as well? I haven't heard any spoilers about them breaking up; I heard a rumor about Carter getting a romance towards the end of the year, and all the way through the next, who is not Abby (again, this is just a rumor), therefore, I want to think that this relationship is the "rollercoaster ride" Goran Visnjic talked about when he was interviewed towards the end of the season. He said the writers would give Luka a girlfriend, but that the relationship would be really rocky. Whether they will break up or not, I don't know that, but if they don't, then it will be indeed a rollercoaster ride, and I'd rather see that than Carter and Abby lying in bed and being mushy and lovey dovey. Again, that is what I WANT, not what will necessarily will happen, or something I am speculating.

I think I've stressed my possition over and over. If anyone wants to know how I feel about something I've said, read my previous posts, it should be all there. I don't wanna have to argue over the same points every day for the rest of the season.

-- Carolina (SuperCarolina5@aol.com), December 23, 2000.

Goran Visnjic contract expires next season and he has hinted that he might not renew his contract just like Noah has hinted. THe fact is that eighteen months is a long time away and too soon to say who is going to stay or go. We don't even know how long Maura Teirney contract is for. As for Noah , he has hinted in the past as saying he his planning on leaving ER and has wound up either extending his contract or renewing. I remember there was a lot of press reports way back in season three where they were reporting that Noah may be leaving ER. Noah wound up extending his contract to a six season , then renewing for two more years. Noah and/or Goran may very well leave ER at the end of season eight. Then again if Noah is really enjoying playing Carter like he has said in may articles the past year or so,and they really have some great plans for Carter, he may decide to renew for two years. Same for Goran. Who knows. Noah did say that he would love to see Carter fall in love , get married , and have a child in two season. I seriously doubt that all that can happen in two years and Noah knows it. I hope Noah does renew for two more years.

I would love to see Carter be one of the bosses and have serious relationship with a wonderful woman.I would love to see Carter balance a career with a sinificant other/family. I think we can see couple have a serious, but fun relationship that is not boring. I think Carter has the personality to be in such a relationship. I think Carter would be more intersting to watch in a long term trelationship than Luka. I don't want it to be with Abby unless they lighten up her character some.

-- Brenda (jckwfan@aol.com), December 23, 2000.

i have to say that i really agree with you about abby and lukabut i also have to say that i think that abby and carter would make a hot couple too, anywayz i reaalllyy don't want to see carter and dr lewis going out! thats just not....its... lets just say they dont look like a good couple.

i just had to say that abby and luka are a totally gr8 couple with a "slightly" rocky relationship

ps. luka and carter are reallly hot! lol i guess u already know that

-- nausheen (nausheen_bsb@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.