I had a wonderful thought last sunday. The reading was both the sermon about the chaff and the wheat, and about the quote from Paul: whatever is good....think on it. And our Priest has both a farming background and a great adversion to hellfire sermons. The thought was in spite of his sermon, while I was thinking on the reading.

I checked this thought out with a few knowledgable people and they did say that it was not herasy. But I have never heard it preached, not ever! So check it out and tell me what you think of it. ( I am not presently a practicing Roman Catholic, for the caution of all newcommers -- but I would like to get Catholic thought on this.)

So as we modern folk do not know farming well, A review. The chaff and the wheat are parts of the same plant. The chaff is the part that is thrown away, the wheat is the part that is used. The chaff is the dead part of the plant, the wheat is the live part of the plant.

So, simply, the part that is dead is thrown away. Who determines this? Man for Wheat, God for Man.

So, Good news! a part of you is bound for heaven no matter what. What part? The part that is alive in God. Bad news! a part is bound for discarding. What part? the part that is dead in God. Like Gold refined in fire, the good part is kept, the bad is thrown away.

Usually this is taken to be the bad part of the congragation, not of the person. But The chaff covers the indiviual grain of wheat. And this also cuts off the feelings of superiority and inferiority: It is them/me that will be cast off and burned. No! not at all! It is both and neither.

My kids are calling and I have got the main part of this wonderful idea out, it can flower in many ways and be a different light on scripture. So far a revieling light that has increased my respect and love for scripture.

Sean

Oh, Paul... It does follow that you want as much of you to be alive in God as possible, so Paul gives what you should do to accomplish this. This is what I ment by a light that helps me see scripture in another beautiful way.

-- Sean Cleary (sean_cleary@bigfoot.com), December 20, 2000

Answers

Response to The Chaff, The wheat, The herasy??

Sean,

Very interesting take. That's never occurred to me, that's for sure. Matthew 3:

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.

10 For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.

To me, (see bold part) John is talking about *the whole person* either going to one fate or another, and if he meant the same in verse 12, one could say that humanity as a whole represented the wheatfield, with some people being "chaff", and some "wheat". OTOH, I like your thought, you could also make a case for saying that the chaff is bound to the wheat and is just stripped away, saving the wheat. It will be interesting to hear what more knowledgable people than I have to say.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), December 21, 2000.

Response to The Chaff, The wheat, The herasy??

Dear Sean,
Can't say you're correct or not in this line of thought. heretic you aren't, since it is only speculation. It might be heretical if you taught such a thing, or learned it from teachers.

Speculation and wondering about spiritual things is good. You can make a habit of meditating on them, and trying first to discern the truth, before becoming attached to any. We are all human, and can fall into error easily trusting our own intuitions. I have always accepted the patent interpretations of the wheat and the chaff. It's a simile of the last judgment. From the four corners of the world, all humanity shall be brought before Jesus Christ and ''separated''; the blessed for glory in heaven at His right hand, and those lost souls on His left; identified with the chaff going to everlasting fire. The entire harvest was redeemed, by Jesus' passion, death and resurrection. Therefore, it IS the Kingdom of Heaven. But the wheat is not the same as the chaff. All humanity is not the wheat, for not all men repent. Carry on, dear brother Sean, with your meditations and good thoughts! God give you clarity and grace /

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 21, 2000.

Response to The Chaff, The wheat, The herasy??

Sean,

Are you saying That the chaff is our earthly bodies and the wheat is our spirit or heavenly ressurected bodies?

-- Michael (mdroe@erinet.com), December 21, 2000.

Response to The Chaff, The wheat, The herasy??

I note that some problems with this interpetation have been pointed out, mostly shifting from indiviuals as whole to humanity as a whole as preferential to individuals as both the chaff and the wheat. But we do contain parts of us that are both alive and dead to God.

Ignoring any possible weakness in my arguement to make it more full and complete, I will note that the gold refined in fire will also sepreate into both dross and what is valued.

In answer to "am I just refering to the body", I will say that with this interpetation, all that is dead to God would not go to him. I believe that I have heard this somewhere before: that the part of (whatever) that is dead to God is not going to him at the end. So I am speaking of your castoff dead clothes, your castoff (dead?) body, and your cast off (dead (branches? of your)) spirit, leaving what is pleasing to God going to God.

The discomforting thing in this passage, no matter what your view point, is what is the threashing floor? Neither the wheat nor the Chaff (seperatist view) nor the Wheat/Chaff/Plant is shown having a good time of it. And what else could it be but life itself? Well it could be the Judgement, but I have too many alternative views here, and want to stick to only one split.

Thank you for the encouragememt on my spiritual meditations. Sean

-- Sean Cleary (sean_cleary@bigfoot.com), December 22, 2000.