I asked about this topic in an earlier thread. Partly because I wanted an answer and partly in an attempt to redirect that thread. Please ignore this if I've bored you twice!

We recently purchased a new place. 5 acres, a nice pole barn and an almost new house. The house is all electric, way to big for what we really need and the whole thing has increased our debt load considerably.

We got the place for $40,000 less than appraisal price. Adding in what we made on the other house, I can afford the payments. But I feel burdened knowing that I probably can't shorten the mortgage time much. I was getting close on the other place.

So my question is , what if I sell the house and 1 acre. Would end up w/ 4 acres and little if any debt. Dig a septic and park a trailer on the other 4 acres. Or fix the pole barn up and make it livable?

I floated this idea at work the other day and got some way strange looks. The wife is keeping an open mind on this so far. I feel like this house is an extravagence. Let me hear your ideas on this. I'm interested because you folks always come up w/ ideas I never would have and I don't have to worry about being laughed at here. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), January 05, 2001

Answers

John, I posted on the other thread but not sure you could find it among all the garbage. We have friends that have converted a pole barn into a home and it is really neat. I would go for you idea in a flash. Out of debt is so wonderful and all the money you don't spend on mortgage payments can be spent doing other things on your homestead to make you more self sufficient. We have a trailer that was supposed to be temporary but find it suits us fine. Don't remember if you have children but I have seen a lot of really neat additions that can be done without debt, one step at a time. Good luck and by the way, I really appreciate your posts. diane in michigan

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 05, 2001.

John, Make sure your town allows a subdivision and trailer before you drive yourself crazy. I'm not allowed to subdivide my 6 acres or have a trailer on it, which I thought might be a good place for my in- laws at one point. Also, I saw a beautiful fixed up barn once but you have to make sure it is structually sound for human habitation first. Good luck whatever you decide.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), January 05, 2001.

John: Just a thought. In Colorado, at least in this county, if you split up acreage, you have to actually go through all the steps to SUBDIVIDE, which is quite expensive if you are dividing a small place. We originally planned to do that with the 10 acres we bought, then found out it would be about 6,000 just to divide the place, not counting in putting in another well, septic and electric service to the other portion. Same thing when our neighbors wanted to divide up their 30 acres and keep 5 with the house for themselves. If you do have to go through all that bs, it may be prohibitively expensive. Otherwise, I'd go for the pole barn, unless you need it for animals, but you could put up another, less elaborate one for them. Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do! Jan

-- Jan in Colorado (Janice12@aol.com), January 05, 2001.

John, being out from under a house payment is a remarkable feeling! Just make sure of all the legalities as others mentioned, and be careful who sell it, too. You would probably be pretty close if you intend to convert the barn. Best of luck!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 05, 2001.

If we go into a recession, how secure is your job? Voluntary simplicity is much better than involuntary simplicity. Good luck in whatever choice you make.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 05, 2001.

Not sure if you read my answer on the "other thread", but we are so glad we made the decision to be debt-free last June. We were toying with the idea of staying in Pennsylvania, among our Amish friends. Had a great offer to buy 2 acres of land with a panoramic view of the entire county and restore a very old home and a barn. The property was selling for $45,000 (cheap in lancaster PA) and we had estimates that the cost would be around $100,000 to restore the buildings and put in a well, etc, etc. With the money we had available to us, that would have meant a $45,000 mortgage and I would have continued working at the prison. After much thought and prayer, we opted to move to Alabama, pay cash for our 8 acres and the house and be debt- free. Best decision we ever made! Since November, I have been pretty sick and unable to work (sometimes,like tonight,I can't even walk)..If we had put all our eggs into a mortgage, we would be in deep trouble by now. I would advise anybody that if you have the means at hand to be mortgage-free, then do so....here in Alabama, you can buy a pretty nice used trailer for $1000....when you don't need it anymore, use it for company! God bless...

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 05, 2001.

Since you said we could speculate a little ? ( I think you said that). My first off the wall thought was--all homes are mobile so sell it on the condition that they take it with them, like to the next 5 acre tract own the road. Secondly,You said it was a total electric home and I recalled that nine of every ten home fires are created by electricity.

-- Joel Rosen (Joe681@webtv.net), January 05, 2001.

Perhaps if subdividing is too prohibitive, you can still put a trailer on or convert the polebarn and rent out the almost new house with a small yard. Then you can pay the place off in half the time and have a nice home to live in later and rent the other one out. That way, you can pick your neighbors.

This was suggested to me to do with my place which is not subdividable. For me, five acres is hardly big enough for all my projects.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 05, 2001.

Are you in a good real estate market or slow? We still own a place in Indiana,bc the market is dead.

We rent it.I really don't recommend it.Young people today are far different than we were.They buy nice clothes and cars and satellite dishes....and don't pay their bills for their basic needs,like housing,and water,and electric.We've gone thru 3 renters,for these reasons.It doesn't take long for them to trash a place either,and some have no qualms about doing that,either.

If your market is good,sell it.Find a small house,that maybe needs a little work,but is structurally sound.Or put up a small passive solar place on a little acreage.

The nicest house,in my opinion, that I was in was a 1000sq ft passive solar,made with good material and design.It was beautiful and functional.Storage tucked in all over the place.

Another possibility is a small cedar sided double wide.Some of the companies in Tenessee had passive solar designs even.I never could get the complete info,as it was thru TVA and I was out of their service area so they wouldn't tell me more.But some of these are very well made and tight.Lots of outdoor garden "rooms" and decks and porches give you a feeling of more space and a place for company to spill out onto.We spend most of our down time, on the porch.

We were able to build equity by fixing up places and selling them when we moved.We are currently on structures 5 & 6.It's alot of work and you have to really commit to it.We are debt free.

Some food for thought anyway.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), January 05, 2001.

John, I subdivided the last farm property, not this one, and it only cost 1,000. That was for the survey and paperwork. Planning and Zoning have to give you a hearing, so the neighbors know about it, and can say anything if they want. No one came to mine. I cut one acre off of 7, and it wasn't too hard. You actually have to name the subdivision, even with just 2 properties, lay out on paper the basic plan and all. What restrictions do you want, roads, etc. Ask to see the zoning on your property, and what is your options first, then go from there. I would rather be debt-free, or at least less debt.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), January 06, 2001.

John:

Don't restrict yourself to a mobile home. For about the same amount of money you might be able to put up a metal sided, 6"x6" frame building and finish the inside yourself over a period of time. Paying extra on the mortgage each month will also cut the number of years significant since it reduces the principal on which the interest is determined.

Dee:

I once talked to someone with the same zoning problem. What they did was to have a fairly large garage (perhaps something like 20' x 30') put up with plumbing in the slab for a bathroom and kitchen. Told the inspector it was to be for a bathroom for a shop and the kitchen plumbing and wiring was to be a summer kitchen for canning. After it was up, they converted the inside to an apartment. Even left the garage doors, just framed them inside. From the outside it looks like a garage and no one had questioned it.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 06, 2001.

Joel:

I tried to contact you directly, but I received a cannot delivery message for an invalid e-mail address.

Doesn't the high number of house fires caused by electrical wiring also have something to do with the use of aluminum wires in the 50s, 60s, 70s or around that time?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 06, 2001.

I would opt for debt free or nearly debt free. One possibility is to refinance your place for less time, like 15 years instead of 30. My 15 year mortgage only added about a little more to the monthly total but will save me thousands in interest, not to mention time spent paying the bill. I am on the downside now, about five years left. I don't miss the extra money, I cut back on non essentials to cover the increase in mortgage cost. I also converted my horse stable into a house. We are still working on it, but paying cash for all improvements as we go. By the time the mortgage is paid off, we hope to have the house finished and we will be debt free. Of course, people still look at us odd as the unfinished end (which will be the garage) still has stalls which we could use if we had to.

Hope this helps!

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 06, 2001.

Tomorrow, the new Endangered Species listing for Salmon goes into effect out here. The counties in W. WA have been gearing up for this for at least two years, so restrictions on building, platting, developing, etc., have been increasing over the last few years.

As to doing a subplat or development around here, all I can say is:

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA..........think it would be kinder to just shoot yourself.

That said, getting out of debt sounds pretty good to me! But...just to put it all into some kind of long term perspective (and this takes some personal introspection and honesty): How comfortable will you really be living in a barn/mobile home, etc., in x number of years? Most people will be fine with that, but don't forget the potential squabbling about not enough room, it's too cold, there's no garage, no storage, or whatever. Even though we are all Countryside buddies on here, there are some who are hardier than others; those that can do without more easily...and those who can do without a little less easily.

We lived in a single wide, dumpy mobile home and then a dumpy double- wide mobile home for a number of years when we were younger. I am not sure that I would want to be doing that now. I kind of like being warm, for example. Anyway, plan out how long you think you can live with it (maybe the rest of your lives) but if not, maybe plan a transition strategy fo down the road.

Guess the first part of the year always sets off my planning/goal setting mania, huh? You guys are smart...you'll do something wise, I just know...

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 06, 2001.

Where we are at the zoning laws are pretty lax. The fella I purchased this place from, had sold off 5 acres to the people on the south side of us. I know that cheapskate wouldn't have paid to subdivide. So that is encouraging. Also, seems they stick mobile homes everywhere around here. Which means there are a lot of used ones. They go pretty cheap, even for decent ones. Both single and doubles.

We are leaving tomorrow to go out of town for a few days. When I get back I guess the county courthouse should be on the agenda. Find out what kind of hoops are nesessary to jump thru. I have a friend who is a realtor who has offered to help me (for free) also.

My wife, Her Royal Highness, is very encouraged by what she has seen here. If Queen Buffness buys into this program all will be well. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

JLS-Job is about as stable as can be. Liked the voluntary simplicity line!

Sheepish- Yes this plan is for the short term. How short? Not sure yet. I know the place I want to live on. Can't get the guy to sell it yet.

I think it would cost more to fix the barn than to buy a mobile. The barn has lots of room tho. This is going to take some thinking. Thanks for the input. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), January 06, 2001.