WOW! It's a sad sad time. Are there any survivors here? ( Christian)

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Are there any Christians left on this forum? Any survivors?

I feel like a stranger in a forien land. I thought we were all friends here. At the very least friendly aquaintence.

So are Christians allowed to post here without secular sencoring? Or do we have to worry about being attacked everytime we say anything?

Please don't be ugly with me. I am not trying to offend anyone and I am not looking for a fight.I am just looking for the freindly place I thought I had found several months ago.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), January 14, 2001

Answers

Bonnie-I am sure that all of us who call ourselves Christians have not left this sight, and do not plan to do so in the near future. I can only hope that soon all of us on here will come to our senses, wake up, and return this forum to what it was started for-to ask and answer questions regarding homesteading, and a simpler way of life. One, that, for my family at least, has God leading our way. Believer or not, though, we all share a kindship with nature, and a want and willingness to return to the land. So lets put all the of the past behind us, and lets return to helping each other...something this forum does better than any other.

-- Joe (Threearrs@AOL.com), January 14, 2001.

I'm not sure what all went on because I only get to check in once in a while but I was enjoying reading info from people who have some of the same interests I do. Everyone was so friendly and helpful. It seems a shame for it not to continue. I'm not going to cancel my subscription, I still like the magazine an don't know anyone personally. It was a place where I could ask a question and not feel stupid. I will still be lurking and try to help if I can.

-- cynthia (cynthiahemenway@hotmail.com), January 14, 2001.

I am stil here. Only post once in a while. Usually when I want to, someone else posts with the same thoughts. I read all the posts about the Christians, Pagans non Christians what ever! I am a Christian and charismatic to boot. This is another story that can get you into trouble but that's not what I wanted to say. The fact that Christians call non Christians as living in the dark is simply because thay haven't seen the light of the world which is the gospel of forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ. Wait a minute, read it all please and don't jump to conclusions. The only reason we say that is because you are still in the dark about being born again. Ok that said, a rocket scientist could say about me if I were to argue with him:"You just don't understand you have no clue, you are in the dark." That does not mean that he scoffs at me, he is recognizing the fact that I am ignoant about the sciense of rocketry. We do not look down on people that just don't see it, we just feel so bad for them that it frustrates us sometimes. Please forgive us. I work in a pregnancy crisis center and I try to tell every one that comes in, that there is hope in Jesus Christ for everything that is wrong in their lives. If nonbelievers had that great a conviction they would do the same thing. Thanks for listening, I am 69 years old and between my( large) garden and my work I can't hardly stand it to be so blessed to live today. Be blessed,Ada

-- Aagje Franken (Backyardy2k@aol.com), January 14, 2001.

Bonnie I'm still here and there too. There meaning Lesley's site. Hope I can stay both places. Hope you check out Lesley's place.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 14, 2001.

to all the xtians on this forum: quit your bitching, it's getting quite tiresome.

-- get a backbone (whiners@areus.com), January 14, 2001.


The diversity of the forum is simply showing. This occurs when a large and diverse group strays from what was the common bond. In the case of the forum, that bond is the magazine and the concept of "modern homesteading". I venture to say no one will leave and the coming of spring will lift the chill. I don't see anyone being "barred" (as is evident, by some posts recently), instead, I see some fine folks of all belief polarizations lamenting in "woe is me" fashion. Don't ever let any factors get you down,especially in a relm such as cyberspace. I have many freinds and aquaintences that don't hold the same values as I and the only ones that have problems are those refusing "to look outside the box". Let's all look back at what brought us all together and whenever we see something offensive, try looking the other way and find subjects more interesting. When looking away , your turning the other cheek. I personally, read all threads, answer the ones of interest, as this one, ignore those that offend me mostly, but always try to put myself not in the persons shoes, but beside them and phrase my entry accordingly.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 14, 2001.

Maybe get a back bone should get one and post his or her real name .I think there is plenty of room here for all religions .Lets all grow up and get back to homesteading .If you are not a big enough person to over look words like god,jesus , or christ thats your problem .I for one enjoy the different views and enjoy reading about others .

-- Patty (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 14, 2001.

This Christian is still here and intends to stay.I'm afraid I am one who doesn't turn the other cheek.You just can't let the idiots and whackos get to you.Normal non-Christians do not cause trouble on this forum.

-- JT Sessions (gone2seed@hotmail.com), January 14, 2001.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Just a thought to ponder...

-- Melissa (cmnorris@1st.net), January 14, 2001.

I would never post my real name or email address as I really don't have any desire to be burned at the stake.

-- get a backbone (whiners@areus.com), January 14, 2001.


Thanks, JT!! I think that's the nicest thing anyone's said about us, the non-Christian population yet! Well, other than that we play nice together - over on the pagan thread.

I've got fundamentalist kin, and friends at work - all of whom witness to me. I don't mind listening to them while they are telling me what Christ has done for them, but they all know to stop there. No telling me I'm going to hell, or such likes. And I don't mind reading it here on the forum either - I can ususally tell by the first sentence who wrote something (if they are an old-timer) and just skip the posts I know that rant.

Friends, okay? In spite of - or perhaps, because of - our differences!

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), January 14, 2001.


Yup, we are here Bonnie...When I was a child I learned that some folks will do just about anything to get attention..It is way past time to ignore folks who are obviously whackos and thrive upon upsetting others...by responding to them, we encourage them..whatever would happen if they were simply ignored? It takes all the fun out of being a whacko if nobody notices you...God knows who these folks are, we don't have to know..we just have to pray for them..God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 14, 2001.

I hope all the Christians haven't left. I think it's nice they can go to another site to talk exclusively about Christianity. I don't mind when Christianity's effect on one's life is mentioned here. It's part of a Christians's life just like gardening is to most homesteaders.

What I don't like is the bickering and the I'm right you're wrong discussions. I also don't like the snide comments such as the one from "get a backbone". I'm only giving it mention because it is the most recent example I've seen. I wish this person would just not continue reading or just not comment rather than hurt more feelings and cause more disunity.

Let's focus on our bond of homesteading and not so much on our differences. I think it was mentioned before but I believe we are all suffering a real bad case of cabin fever. I was reading my new C-side this afternoon and felt really inspired about this Spring's garden. I might try to get some of the seed catalogs written about in the gardening and the growing your own grain articles.

I like everybody here. Even you "get a backbone"! And Bonnie don't be sad. I really believe this will all blow over and things will be fine. Maybe this is just a period of change. Change is hard sometimes. People come and people go. The forum would grow stagnant if it never changed. So hang in there and don't take it so seriously.

-- Denise (jphammock@msn.com), January 14, 2001.


I'm a Christian and proud of it and I'm still here!!!

-- Dan Vincent (farmerdan130@msn.com), January 14, 2001.

The first sign of a true Christian is love for everybody...even when they don't believe like we do....has that been shown here?

I am a homesteader and a Christian...but if you are not a Christian that shouldn't hinder us from discussing homesteading issues.

This is not a forum dedicated to "evangelism" this is a forum dedicated to the diversity of homesteading....let's get back to what Jd began the magazine, Countryside, with. A thirst to get back to a simplier lifestyle. Sometimes governmental issues sneak in, like I think was should all be conscious of the governmental movements to regulate every aspect of what we do on our own properties...but by and large, we should all be able to agree on the important homestead issues!

We should show compassion, interest, and be willing to share our knowledge. I have been an investigative newspaper reporter/photographer for nearly 22 years now and it's a dog-eat-dog world....homesteading is my life and my escape...let's not ruin the forum...let's just show some tolerance and understanding!

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), January 14, 2001.



I'm still here too and I'm a Christian!

-- Carole (coverga@bminet.com), January 14, 2001.

I'm still here and the new place also. You know what I don't think it's the Christians verses the pagans, it seems like the problem is some people are just plain RUDE! Like "get a backbone" When I see something that doesn't fall in line with my beliefs or offends me I just simply ignore it most of the time, dont' post or reply!

-- Carol in Tx (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), January 14, 2001.

I've been a Christian all my life (memory anyway) and must say that many times what is called christian isn't-it's just someone's intrepretation of christianity-Jesus wouldn't recognize the attitude at all. He NEVER condemned anyone EXCEPT the self righteous religous folks of the day. That said, I'd like to respond to get a backbone, the topic clearly stated that this was christian. If you don't like to read christian material, PAY ATTENTION to the topic. don't go there!! betty

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), January 14, 2001.

Just to clarify, in the above response, I was referring to "backbone" and those of his/her ilk, certainly no one else.We are commanded to pray for him/her, but not commanded to respond to posts such as that which obviously are meant to inflame..'nuf said? God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 14, 2001.

I'm still here and I'm still a Christian. I don't participate in online conflicts.

I learned at a very young age not to step in cowpies no matter what the name of the cow. I also learned that if you want to throw cowpies your gonna need to wash your hands.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 15, 2001.


Although I don't post all that often, I'm still here. I've experienced this type of thing before. It is best to remain quiet.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt."

To get into religious discussions via this medium is fruitless and perhaps, even, inappropriate. Certainly, destructive, as this latest exchange has shown.

Where there is strife and confusion.... you know the rest. ;-)

Stick to homesteading on a homesteading forum...save your witnessing for face to face or at least one on one. Use the email for prayer requests if you must. We don't want to seem antagonistic, do we?

-- jimR (jymcyn@earthlink.net), January 15, 2001.


Hi Bonnie: Still here, Christian that I try to be, just not sure at what level of participation. As evidence by the response from "get a backbone", anything labeled Christian seems to be subject to some sort of abuse. I am enjoying the liberty of fellowshiping with other Christians on the new forum, but will lurk here for homesteading issues. Unlike a lot of people, I think that what has happened might prove to be a positive thing. It is very obvious now that some of the people who have been fence sitting with their spirituality had to look at it and see where they really are. Some of the people who were constantly commenting on the "Christian" threads, are now owning that they are pagans. In fact, one has even taken on a new name. So, I believe as Christians we have to keep on keeping on in our homesteading and preparations for things to come. Be of good heart and do not give in to the wiles of the devil. We can be in the world and not of it, always trying to show love and compassion for those around us. This was my first forum experience and I really jumped in with both feet, wholehearted as I do everything that I do. As Laura said quite nicely, I have had to wash my hands, dust off my feet, brush off and start anew. God's Blessings to all

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 15, 2001.

Well, I see it's obvious the Christian-bashers failed to run us all off. I think there's a lesson in it for all of us. We are to be in the world, not of it. We are to influence our world, not be influenced by it. I still homestead, I still need advice from time to time. I don't feel the need to go away, just to be more wise about my battles.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), January 15, 2001.

I wonder what we're missing out on by all the bickering. Has something wonderfu been missed? Something that could have happened to one, several or all and now we'll never know?

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 15, 2001.

"he who suffers persecution in my name will be blessed." We are just blessed is all! It is easier to be angry than to love one another. The loving one another is just so much more nice and fun. Lets just be kind no matter what and don't worry about the people that want to be otherwise... so don't worry about them! God Bless you and keep on keepin' on, Nan

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), January 15, 2001.

I'm here. Remember, as Christians, it's been said that we will be treated badly because of our faith. Don't let it get you down, be stronger becaue of it and remember, ol backbone will burn in hell someday and you and I will be with the Father.

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), January 15, 2001.

Well, I'm still here. Still Christian. I'm kind of waiting for the dust to settle some. As someone who usually has a quick word at the tip of my cyber-tongue, I am amazed at how many lines I have keyed in this box, and then deleted. I just cannot figure out how to say what I want. Maybe bullet points will be easier:

God loves us; always has, always will.

The business of judging belongs to God and not us.

We are all still seeing through a glass darkly, so I don't understand how some can feel that they have the only correct perspective on Christianity.

Some of my best friends are not Christian. I don't think any of my animals are, either. I still love them all.

This Forum will keep growing and we will see old friends leave, and new friends come on. Just like life. Some folks will feel a need to unleash their egos on us, and some will want to just lurk. We'll still get upset, or hurt, or misunderstood, just like always. We'll also still feel glad to know that there are like-minded folks out there who can actually understand us, give us information when we need it, tell us a joke, share our fun or our sadness, and make us see things in ways that we didn't before. It works for me. I'm sticking around.

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 15, 2001.


...ol backbone will burn in hell someday and you and I will be with the Father.

Thanks Joe.

That statement of yours is PRECISELY why I loathe Fundies.

Have a nice life, asshole.

-- get a backbone (whiners@areus.com), January 15, 2001.


Hello, I'm here, and a Christian, but I don't always get to contribute as much as I like. TO BACKBONE: I understand why you feel uncomfortable about the statement you quoted above, and please understand that all Christians don't feel that way. I was, for many years, an atheist and then an agnostic, and finally found the grace to have faith in God. I will pray that one day you feel comfortable with learning more about the Lord, and allowing yourself to hear Him. I'm not as much a scholar as I would like one day to be, but loosely quoted, I remember reading a passage that says that the Lord desires that none should perish but all should come to Him. Everything has it's reasons, and if you're still here, it may be that the Lord is working on you, to bring you closer to Him. Okay, now anyone who is offended, go ahead and yell at me, but I had to say it!

-- Kristin, in Central Alabama (positivekharma@aol.com), January 15, 2001.

Hey bone, my life won't be any better than yours but my afterlife sure will. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), January 15, 2001.

I'm here and at the new site. I don't understand how some can complain one second about the things Christians have said to them and then be extremely rude the next. DOUBLE STANDARD! It's SO INFANTILE! If you aren't interested in the Christian topics then DON"T OPEN THE THREAD! VERY SIMPLE! And believe me, I won't be opening the pagan/nonchristian threads. People, this isn't about divirsity, it's about manners and maturity. I don't believe the non-believers, with a few exceptions, will tolerate any "God talk". Keep the Christian talk on the Christian threads, stay out of their threads, and lets talk homesteading on the rest, which is what this place is all about. I'm not a pushy person, and I have spent much of the time biting my tongue, so sorry that it's coming out this way. It's what we have in COMMON, and the only way this will work. For Him, PASALM 52

-- Nancy in CA (sonflower35@icqmail.com), January 15, 2001.

You're right, Kristin. Not all Christians are like Joe and I'm definitely glad for that. From your post you seem like a decent person, too.

I really have no wish to flame any of you guys for your beliefs. Originally I was responding to Bonnie's "oh woe is us poor persecuted christians, when will the mean old pagans stop censoring us." attitude. It was really over the top in my opinion and it pushed my buttons. I'm sorry to everyone (including Joe) for I for what I said, I should have just kept quiet.

So, having said that, this will be my last post on this thread. I promise.

-- backbone (done@done.com), January 15, 2001.


I'm still here, and will be off and on, but besides the fact that I've been spending too much time on the computer and not enough time doing things that need to be done, I really want a place where I don't always have to be careful *not* to mention the one thing that is the core of my life, my belief in Jesus Christ as my Savior. And the fact that others need to be saved if they want to have eternal life. I've met a lot of nice people here, many of them are not Christians, and I have no problem with that (other than that it is sad that they are missing out on the most important thing in the world), as long as they don't bash God, the Bible, and believers. Putting Christianity on a par with a discussion of homosexual behavior was a last straw for me. (And, yes, someone, on one of the other threads, did say that.) So, I will be here occasionally but only on the strictly *homesteading* threads. For a breath of fresh air, I'll visit one of the Christian homesteaders forums, and am very thankful that they exist.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 15, 2001.

Yeah, I am here. These are the last days, huh? Jesus said we'd be unpopular. It's gettin' scary out there, in some ways.

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), January 15, 2001.

Hey Bonnie,

I'm sorry you and the other Christians who have had the nerve to mention that they ARE Christians have been attacked. For the first several months I was posting on this forum, I was leery of mentioning that I am a pagan. For many of my friends, "coming out of the broom closet," as we call it, has meant the loss of longtime friends and even severed relationships with family members. I guess it's no great wonder some of us are a bit defensive about our beliefs. Still, that's no real excuse for anyone to attack anyone else.

In fact, for the past couple of weeks, since this religious dispute has been picking up steam and threatening to destroy the forum, the words to an old song have been popping into my head. It goes, "Come on people now. Smile on your brother. Everybody get together. Try to love one another right now."

Homesteaders are so few and far between! Who else can we talk to about milking goats or making soap and not be looked at as though we have two heads? Who else can tell us what's wrong with our sick chickens, or how to make good butter?

So far, it seems that many on this forum are willing to just rejoice in the things we do have in common and at least have respect for the differences. I think if we just hang in there and try to be kind, we'll get back to the common ground. Perhaps it will be even better than it was before, and people will not be afraid to express their beliefs because this will all have been worked out already.

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), January 15, 2001.


Still here. Still reading. Still laughing at the silliness. Still sorrowed to the marrow at the bickering. Still praying like crazy.

-- queen (queenbuffness@hotmail.com), January 15, 2001.

Bonnie, have been watching this "Religious Thing" and just staying out of it. But for 2 days I've been having this nagging feeling I should say something.....but I really didn't know what. Till this morning at work. We coded a 52 y/o fella today. We worked him for 2 hours before we got a rhythm that we could count on. Man I hate breaking ribs in the morning doing CPR. This dude is going to have another chance. I don't know a thing about him. He flatlined coming in off the ambulance.

But it's that second chance thing. I got a second chance in life because of Jesus!

And that nagging feeling was the need for me to stand up for Him and add my voice, and more importantly, NOT to deny Him! So, Christian, sinner saved by His Grace, John Mengel in S. IN

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), January 16, 2001.


Hi Bonnie

I'm a Christian, bought and paid for by the blood of Christ. I certainly don't intend on leaving, I have gotten so much valuable information from so many nice people who are willing to help. Thanks everyone. - Kathy

-- Kathy (jubilant@ncweb.com), January 16, 2001.


Am I the only one who suspects the "backbone" is Joel in drag? I have my doubts about his ability not to lurk, despite his rantings about such activities. Pride goeth before a fall, and all that. Still - could be wrong. It happens.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 18, 2001.

Nope, Soni, I don't think it looks like Joel's style of writing. Whoever "Backbone" is, please don't lump all Pagans in with such rude behavior!

Bonnie, I'm hoping you'll stick around!

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 19, 2001.


It was that last bit about being censored that nudged a familiarity notification in my brain. But hey, whoever it is, no insult is/was intended. Just supposition, vulgar curiosity, and a bored mind.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 19, 2001.

I have 2 thoughts to offer here.

1st (no) backbone does not use a valid e-mail address. Why do they choose to be so hidden? While I saw backbones' "recanting", their attitude did not change I'm sure. Chistians should tolerate Pagans and vice-versa.

2nd I have to shake my head about Joe and his "Nyah Nyah Nyah I'm gone to heaven and you're not" attiutude. I know Jesus can't be proud of him when he sins like this. Stick to shouting "I'm going to heaven". Remember what God's Judgement would be if Jesus hadn't payed for our sins.

-- Rick K (Rick_122@hotmail.com), January 20, 2001.


Bonnie, As Christians we ARE strangers in a foreign land. "Freindship with the world is enmity with God." The opposite is true as well. "The preaching of the Cross is to them that perish, foolishness." This forum is a great place for homesteading information, but not necessarily for fellowship. By living in a "Christian" nation, many people still share our biblical values because that is what they grew up with. Don't be discouraged or surprised when attacked for your faith, but feel honored to suffer for Christ. In the "politically correct" atmosphere of our society, Evangelicals are the only group which are fair game for public criticism. The New Age mantra is to seek for the truth, but if you claim to have actually found the truth (in Jesus), you are labeled as dangerous, or intolerant, or a homophobe, etc. "Delight yourself in the Lord..."

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), January 20, 2001.

Bonnie, I have not posted much in the last few months. Didn't mean to stop, just kind of got busy. I want never to appear to be ashamed of Jesus and what He did for me at the Cross. I am a Christian. However, I never get into the religious discussions. I don't think anything is accomplished. Please be encouraged. Eagle.

-- eagle (eagle@alpha1.net), January 20, 2001.

Ok, I'll take a turn at this.

One way I've found to not get embroiled in the recent fracas is to have the posts sent daily or whatever to my email address. I download them and then read them offline at my leisure. If I read something that riles me by the time I can get back to the website online, I've calmed down and can let it go. It is not my job to play Holy Spirit.

When I'm reading posts offline, I make notes of the things I want to repsond to and then next time I have a chance, I get on the site and respond to those things.

Another thing....somewhere in another post, somebody mentioned that not many Christians were posting in their own thread. I figure that it is easier for the Christians to join forces against the "Pagans" than it is for us to face our own differences. I'm sure there are myriad things for the Christians to argue (oops, I'm mean debate) about.

I kind of like the idea of labels. Here's a few I wear: Christian/wife/mother/homeschooler/conservative/republican/presbyteria n/pastor's wife/homesteader wannabe/gardener/hebalist(I'm learning)/seamstress/...I'm sure there are more that I don't know about yet. :-)

I don't mind discussing herbs with anyone on this forum. However, there will be a fundamental difference in some of our worldviews. I come from the viewpoint that my Creator and Saviour made all things things for our benefit and use. It would be more difficult to discuss politics/religion or sometimes even homeschooling because the differences are more obivious and harder to get arround.

For myself, I am tempted to be on here engaging more in the debates than being a lurker but frankly I have a home to run. It is possible to go against the Biblical advice of being "keepers at home" and never leave home.

A Christians faith should pervade every area of their life. Like the joy we experience that is like a golden thread that shines through times of sorrow as well as happy. It is the deep knowledge that we have been ransomed and are kept as adopted children of the Maker of the Universe through His Son Jesus.

Yes, we should stand firm and not be afraid to speak when necessary but we are to excersise meekness as well. Meekness being defined as strength under control. Yes, we believe we have the truth and at times that truth is wielded as a sword, sharp and two edged. At othertimes, that truth is as a shepherd tending the wounds of a sheep that has gotten itself caught in the brambles of the world.

Ok, I think I've rambled enough. And That's All I've Got to Say About That! (Thank you Forest Gump)

-- Heather, Cackleberry Acres, MD (heathergorden@hotmail.com), January 21, 2001.


I enjoyed all the wonderful comments,and the reminder of why we are all on this forum,,our love of homesteading as a common ground,,and of nature, the animals that share this planet with us,,the decent folks that just want to live on the land or homestead in the city, to raise our kids and teach them how to use the "land" in a good way,,and to survive on the land when the need arises. The generous folks, and family type mentality among Countrysiders,,I wouldn't leave that just because someone posts unkind, and ugly words once in awhile...Usually they are in need of some of lifes good lessons,,and perhaps all they have had are bad lessons..who knows? But I am glad to be a part of this forum,,,It is the only one I am in..because of the personality of the Forum as a whole..a great place to be....So, Bonnie, hang in there,,,it is a friendly place..ignore all else...

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 31, 2001.

"In my opinion" many are missing the point. First of all this is a forum about country living. One does not have to belong to a particular spiritual path to partake of that way of life, as I see it. I believe most any religion has some saying similar to 'do onto others as you would have them do unto you'. If I were , say , a muslim and every other post I had to point out how being a muslim made me special, that all the rest of you, non muslims, were something lesser than me or just 'unfortunate'. Seriously, how would you feel? How about if Muslims were the majority? You see, I have no problems with spiritual people, It's bigots that give me a problem. I will honor and respect your path, how about you doing the same for me. Skip, strangers in a strange land? I don't know what makes you think that christians are the underdogs in this country. You've got to be kidding. Let me tell you about a real spiritual minority in this country. So I agree , let this forum be about homesteading.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), March 31, 2001.

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