This was sent to me by my sister. I thought it was interesting and maybe of value to the women on the forum, you guys too since we all seem to be at risk in this day and age.

Hi, girls! I just finished taking the most amazing self-defense class, sponsored by Shandwick, and I wanted to share some really valuable info with you before it goes out of my head. The guy who taught the class has a female friend who was attacked last year in the parking garage at Westport Plaza in St. Louis one night after work and taken to an abandoned house and raped. He started a women's group and began teaching these classes soon after. This guy is a black belt in karate and trains twice a year with Steven Segall. He and the others in this group interviewed a bunch of rapists and date rapists in prison on what they look for and here's some interesting facts:

The #1 thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are mostlikely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid, or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. #2 They also like to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets. #3 men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. The #1 outfit they look for is overalls because many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing and on overalls the straps can be easily cut. They also look for women on their cell phone,searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m. The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms. The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught. Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years. If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming. These men said they will not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're notworth it.

Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: *If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a lineup, you lose appeal as a target. *If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target. If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes), yelling "I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY" and holding it outwill be a deterrent. *If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If they grab your wrist, pull your wrist back so your hand is in waving position (palm facing forward) and twist it toward yourself and pull your arm away. It is hard to hold onto wrist bones that are moving in that way. They stumble toward you and you stumble back,so you can use that momentum to bring the same out and backhand them with your knuckles in the forehead, nose, or teeth. *If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh. HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it.It hurts. *After the initial hit, always go for the groin. If you hit a guy'stesticles, it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll piss the guy off and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble.Start causing trouble and he's out of there. *When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can, and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.Please forward this to any woman you know, it's simple stuff that could save her life. _________________________________________________________________

-- Betsy K (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), January 16, 2001

Answers

"These men said they will not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

I bet my wifes Glock reaches farther than your umbrella...

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), January 16, 2001.

William, only if she knows how to use it and, most importantly, is will to kill.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 16, 2001.

Don't know about WI, but here in IL walking down the street with an umbrella in your hand gets you nary a glance. Walking with a gun in your hand, however, would get you arrested. Ditto one in your purse if you get caught with it. Or glove box.

I would rather my pretty, petite blond daughter carry a 9mm than all take all the self-defense classes in the world. But, I also think that she would hesitate to shoot (I could be wrong). She couldn't take it on school property without risking expulsion and arrest. And I don't trust some of her friends not to be idiots re: a gun. So I'm printing out the above hints and giving copies to her and her girl friends. Thanks, Besty - for the post.

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), January 16, 2001.

William,

The deputy that taught our local self defense course also advised the women that chose to pack firearms "to pack it like a man, in a body holster under clothing, never in a purse or handbag". His position was that it was practically useless in a handbag, unless the bag had a built in quickdraw holster. He felt even the customized bags were not as efficient as body concealment.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 16, 2001.

JLS in NW AZ,

"The more training the better" is a pretty good rule of thumb for all forms of self defense...unless there is something in the AZ water that turns folks into certified umbrella ninjas ;^)

Polly,

Don't know about WI... Well, strictly speaking we can legally carry one in our hand or worn in a holster old west style but cant carry concealed by state law. Needless to say that in some places you would find yourself in court on catch 22 laws defending yourself for "brandishing" or whatever the local DA could come up with. Maybe your daughter just needs more practice or is hung up on a moral dilemma based on a confused set of principles that seem so prevalent today. Ill help with either if you wish/I can...

Jay,

Sounds like your deputy knows his stuff. The other problem with the purse method is that the purse can easily become separated from the carrier leaving her defenseless. How many times have you seen a woman put her purse down and turn around "just for a second" to do something? Or, what happens if a snatcher grabs your purse? Its gonna be real tough to shoot him if he turns on the carrier. I dont think that a lot of these purse carry advocates consider these things. It also keeps the weapon handy in vehicle related situations. Ive read about even police officers making the mistake of laying the weapon on the seat or in a bag on the seat and then when they had to make a sudden stop the gun flew on the floor or under the seat, not too bad of a problem if a person can get the car jacker or whatever to wait while one fishes about.

"There exists a law, not written down anywhere, but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading, but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself; a law which has come to us not from theory, but from practice, not by instruction, but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. When weapons reduce them to silence, the laws no longer expect one to wait for their pronouncements. For people who decide to wait for these will have to wait for justice, too---and meanwhile they must suffer injustice first." - Cicero

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), January 16, 2001.

William,

I tried to click on your e-mail addy but it came back undeliverable. I did wish to ask a question or two. Would you be willing to send your address to my e-mail; or need I post here on the forum? Many thanks for your concern.

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), January 16, 2001.

Hi William, the sun shines here in AZ something like 340 days a year, carrying an umbrella probably would get you thrown in jail. :>)

The biggest problem with handguns is people not trained in the proper use. Another big mistake is people thinking they can use it as a threat. Both will get you killed with your own gun. Incidentally, we do have concealed carry here AFTER training.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 16, 2001.

90 percent of the problem with women being attacked is a mind-set. From the day we are born, we are told to "be nice." "Don't fight." "Don't hit." "Act like a lady." I got into law enforcement about 15 years ago, when women wearing uniforms was still unusual. I remember the first brawl that I had to break up. It turned on me, and I distinctly remember that first swing that I took. As my arm was going around, I felt myself pulling back, because somewhere deep down inside me, I knew I wasn't suppose to hit. Not even a conscience thought really. I didn't give it my all, and after getting the living crap beat out of me by the Amazon whose Mama didn't raise her right, I realized that when someone is attacking me it's okay to hit back. After all, if they don't mind doing damage to me, why should I mind doing damage back. Over the last 15 years, I have seen way too many women who have had their pretty faces rearranged and their lives altered forever without ever raising a finger in their own defense. And weight and size have nothing to do with it. I also answered a call one night to find a 90 pound woman holding a 240 pound man at bay with a small paring knife. The man was slashed in several places and bleeding profusely. The woman had nary a scratch, but was extremely pleased with herself. Rightfully so. Since my encounter with the Amazon, I've taken on a few of her sisters, and some of her brothers too, and I'm still holding my own. Believe me, the battle is decided in your mind before it ever really begins.

-- Julie (rjbk@together.net), January 16, 2001.

I used to teach a self-defense course. My main objective sometimes was just getting the women to realize that they have to hurt their attacker.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), January 16, 2001.

I notice that guns are mentioned a lot. Actually a knife is a far better weapon close in. It can also be hidden a lot easier and retrieved faster. Teach yourself to react to any unwarrented attention by anyone. Learn to do it quickly, and mean it.

Learn to use what is handy. A pen or pencil can inflict serious wounds. A pot or pan can do a lot of damage. A phone can hurt if used correctly. A plate or fork or spoon can be used to get you free from an assailant. Pick up a chair and use it. Get the idea. Don't forget those fingers. They do wonders in someones eyes.

In the case of spousal abuse simply time it. Wait till he is sleeping or drunk and then use that heavy pot on him.

Remember that no one should be grabbing you in the first place. If someone does, REACT as fast and hard as you can. Then get away from the area. Run if you can. Get to where there are other people.

-- Nick (wildheart@ekyol.com), January 16, 2001.

A friend of ours own a gun shop, and a few years back was given a couple of prototypes of a newly designed "personal protection" holster designed for bicycle riders, and gave me one. It's a totally lightweight, breathable netting, and fits in the small of your back, turnable for whether you are right or left handed. Seriously, it is so comfortable that you really do forget that you are packing until you need it. About a year ago it made the news that it had gotten it's patent and was now widely available--apparently poor bicycle riders are attacked and robbed quite frequently, because of their vunerablity. This thing is really comfy, even when you're out weeding in the hot sun, splitting wood, or whatever. A concealed weapon permit in this state is not difficult to obtain, you just have to show "just cause". Being 4'10", 90 lbs would have gotten it for me, but adding in that I am home alone 16 hours a day, and that I sell produce, flowers,eggs,etc, and ANYONE could drive our 1/2 mile driveway following the signs for what is for sale, they actually rushed my license through. It costs me $15.00 a year to renew. Have I ever used my handgun? Not on a person, although over the last 3 years I have put my hand casually behind my back when a "customer" was acting weird, and the time there was a couple of weirdos out in my field,gathering mushrooms they thought would get them high...they were toadstools, and if they really did eat them, probably killed them. But I did kill a coyote that was after my guineas in broad daylight, when I was only about 50 feet away, sitting in the garden weeding. If I had had to run to the house for a rifle, it would have been too late. Also got a 38 lb raccoon that had opened the sliding lock on the outdoor hutch and was after a doe rabbit....have you ever heard a rabbit scream? Again, if I had had to run to the house, my rage probably would have left me and I would have locked myself in the house scared to death, and too afraid to investigate. So, even if you don't have to worry about protection from humans, carrying a handgun comfortably handy is almost a necessity on the old homefront...But let me make this perfectly clear: I know what I am doing with a gun, and if I ever needed to use it against another human, I could. Someone who thinks you can just threaten will get the gun taken away and used on themselves. Take a gun safety course, and practice. Kathie

-- Kathie in Western Washington (twinrosefarm@worldnet.att.net), January 17, 2001.

I agree and disagree! When Nick mentions a knife (which I carry) I am reminded of one of the Harrison Ford movies where the huge guy swings his sword and Harrison sighs, and shoots him! I carry a .357. When I can convince her, Magie has a .32 ACP. Either is a very, very strong deterrent. In Maine, we are completely legal. If you are not, hold the feet of your reps to the fire to make it so. But even if it is not accepted, remember the phrase "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!" Go get 'em and Thank God that Despicable Bill and his anti-Constitutionalist minions are history. Freedom Lives!! GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), January 22, 2001.

Brad

That was supposed to be humor in that movie. I believe the duel between the knife man and the gunmen in the Magnificent Seven would be closer to real life. The man with the knife cleaned it on the shirt of the dead gunman.

In real life in close fighting there is no better weapon than the knife. By the time you reach for your gun you will have been sliced several times, possibly fataly. In law enforcement we were trained in this because of so many injuries and deaths due to knives. If a person is within 15 feet you will not be able to draw and fire before he gets to you.

Also I know of no weapon that can be conceled as easily as a knife. Also one that can be hidden from you until it is too late. The shock of being stabed or sliced works against you big time.

-- Nick (wildheart@ekyol.com), January 23, 2001.

Is anyone interested to that in that movie (Raiders of the Lost Ark), the scene was first conceived as a fight with Indy (Ford's character) using his trademark whip against the sword virtuoso? Ford was suffering (a lot) from dysentery at the time, and did not feel up to shooting the scene as written. He persuaded George Lucas that logically, his character would just shoot the guy, and so movie history is made. My knowledge of weapons and using them is limited, but I don't think that big sword (scimitar?) would have been very effective for fighting in close. Sorry for straying so far from topic, Betsy!

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 23, 2001.

Joy Just how far away does one have to be to use a sword? These were used for close in fighting. Along with daggers. Have you ever seen someone fencing? These are long swords and they are still very close. But the main point is that his shooting the man was supposed to be funny and it was. In real life a throwing knife would proably been in his chest before he could have fired a shot. No real enemy would have done such a stipid thing.

-- Nick (wildheart@ekyol.com), January 24, 2001.

Hey, Nick, I wasn't trying to be argumentative or anything. My point about the sword for "close" work was in comparing it to the shorter blade of a knife. I guess it depends on the definition of "close". You could injure someone with that big sword if you were close enough to be grabbing each other, but at that distance, a knife would be easier to use on your opponent. I wasn't thinking about a thrown knife. That's much more difficult to do though, than just stabbing or cutting someone.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 24, 2001.

I find the tone of this thread quite weird, almost bizarre.

-- John Hill (john@cnd.co.nz), January 25, 2001.

Your right John, my intent was not to start this kind of conversation, just to give women some hints about defending themselves if they are ever in a dangerous situation. Glad it's finally in the archives, hope the discussion of the "best weapon to kill with" drops off soon.

-- Betsy K (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), January 25, 2001.

Sorry, Betsy, for the sidetracking. I won't contribute any more to it. However, I would point out that if you don't know how you can be injured, you won't as well prepared to defend yourself.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 25, 2001.