I'm not even sure if that is the correct spelling. They are a wild critter, I've been told, that like to kill. What are they? How big do they get and do they live in Wisconsin? I've lost 7 outside cats since Fall and a friend from Canada suggested perhaps fishers are what is the cause.

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), January 16, 2001

Answers

Ardie,fishers are in the weasle family and are big enough to tackle porcupines.They are about the size of a big house cat but much more muscular.As for the Kitties.It could be a fisher or martin.I think they are more of a forest habitat.In WI you could have a wolverine at large as well. Any sign of struggle or peices left?Or do they just disappear?Coyotes are making a come back all over north america and are not above killing and eating cats as well as smaller dogs.I have seen foxes which are not supposed to climb by the way chase cats up trees and kill them.I presume to eat.But the BIGGEST predator of cats by far in my experience have walked on two legs.We have several "barn cats" at the farm all of which have cost us at least $95.00 to neuter and vaccinate.I also keep them in flea collars as well as visible belled collars.I have found three of them or what was left of them shot to death.(On MY 60 acre property I might add)Two more have been missing since the close of hunting season.Bird magazines often publish anti-cat articles.They even have a national campaign to pressure people to keep thier outside cats inside.A lot of the dingbat hunters insist that they wipe out all the small game and are therefor targets of oppertunity.Habitat destruction and overhunting do more damage.(yeah, I hunt too)Farm people keep cats because we use them for rodent control.We also tend to get stuck with them when kind souls decide to dump them on us.Unfortuntely city tranplants can't quite get it that these are working pets and don't live inside.In your situation I would keep my eyes and ears open because it may be one of you neighbors that is knocking them off.

-- Gregory J Smith (gsmith@tricountyi.net), January 16, 2001.

Ardie, I am also in Wisconsin and we do have Fisher. They live in the river behind our home. In fact it is called the Fisher River. My husband knows more about them then i do but, we have had very little problem with them. I have two cat's and also ducks and geese that frequent the water. I have had alot of problems with fox however. We had 3 babies playing by my garden last spring and i know they are brave little fellows. I agree very much with Gregory's letter. I have heard skunk kill cats also and we have them abundant. Anyone have a program to keep these critter's at bay?

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), January 16, 2001.

Gregory is right.It is likely to be people,coyotes or fox getting your cats.Also bobcat or if you have them, cougar.All these prey on housecats

When we trapped for fox, we used rotted dead cat as the preferred bait.

And,yes,fox can climb trees,esp.grey fox.Good place to set a trap, in fact,if you could tell that they had been there.Growing up we had a dog that climbed trees too!

Wild animals are resourceful.Facinating to study.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), January 16, 2001.

We have coyotes, fox, skunks and prolly many other critters. I suppose I'll have to accept the balance of nature thing. If I set out traps the stupid cats would end up in them....my cats are pretty stupid. As for neighbors shooting them, I doubt it as they know I feed many cats. Thank you for being so kind and generous with your advice. It makes a newbie feel welcome.

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), January 16, 2001.

Learn something new everyday ! Never heard of Fishers. Here in the California foothills we have trouble with the bobcats. Lost my favorite duck and my favorite chicken to a huge one that frequents our area. Have also lost several cats myself. I don't let my birds out of their coops anymore because of him. Good luck ! cindy

-- Cindy Palmer (jandcpalmer@sierratel.com), January 16, 2001.

Yes, Wisconsin (northern, and possibly they've moved further south) has fishers. They were imported from Canada and released. To control the porcupines. I've forgotten what evil thing the porkies were supposedly doing. Julie knows, I'm sure! Fishers have taken and will take cats. I don't know how to determine if a fisher is the culprit or not, however. As noted by others, there are plenty of other critters that will take a cat. I am sure a wolf, bear, or cougar would also, if opportunity presented itself, as well as some domestic dogs.

Only the very fast, smart, and lucky domestic cats living outdoors will survive to old age. The vast majority will not make it past five years. For this reason, I keep my cats indoors. Admittedly, this is easier when I am the only one opening and closing doors!

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 17, 2001.

Well, it's always inevitable...I always post after Joy it seems. Boy howdy do we have Fishers in Wisconsin! I'm seeing them quite frequently now, one crossing my driveway that someone asked me if it was a porcupine and I said no, that's a Fisher. I picked up a dead one on the road that wasn't too squooshed and took it to the wildlife center so they could taxidermy it to show to the tourists. They're all over the place now. The story is that supposedly the porkies were killing all the birch trees by eating them, which was really dumb, it is a combination of the birch leaf miner and bronze borer getting them. Now I hardly ever see a porcupine at all anymore, and the birch trees are still dying. And since the porkies are on the low end of the stick, the Fishers are taking cats and even dogs now. One woman I knew slightly had a Fisher take BOTH her cats as they were sitting out in the sun on the deck next to her house. Another woman at the vets was in trying to save her Golden Retriever when had been ripped up by Fishers. Oh yes, they're here. Coyotes will also take cats, as will roaming dogs, owls aren't unlikely at night either. I've heard some people say that bears will take them too. CARS are a BIG one for removing a roving feline population. Or you may have neighbors who have cats roaming on their property that take them off to the humane society, have you checked there for any of them?

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), January 17, 2001.

Small dogs and cats are a favorite prey animal of medium sized carnivores. The reason is fairly straightforward, domestic pets have lots of fat (high caloric content) and wild animals learn fast.

Also, it my understanding Fishers were native to the Wisconsin area before they were trapped out years ago.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 17, 2001.

Fisher kits

Pictures of various related animals, pine martens, fishers, ermine (weasel), mink Click here

JLS, I think you are probably right, though I couldn't confirm it through the Wisconsin DNR site. The Michigan DNR site refers to the fishers (and pine martens) as "re-introduced", so if they were indigenous there, almost certainly they were here! Pine martens are closely related and prey on similar creatures, but being smaller, tend to take smaller prey. Sometimes the fishers go after the martens too, and both will go after weasels and mink, but probably it's more a territorial thing than predator after prey. When I wrote "imported from Canada", I meant that is where they got their stock. I'm not against reintroduction of exterminated species, per se, but their porcupine excuse was really dumb. And guess what, there has been a big enough expansion of the numbers of fishers that they now have trapping permits for them. Fishers seem to have adapted to the larger human populations. They used to be shy and reclusive, staying away from human dwellings. Now they'll come in and take pets. I imagine if you had poultry flocks in their range, those would also be targetted. One more critter to consider when planning your pens and coops.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 17, 2001.

(http://www.borealforest.org/mammals.htm)

-- Jason (AJAMA5@netscape.net), January 17, 2001.

-- Jason (AJAMA5@netscape.net), January 17, 2001.

How about getting a big dog, you know, the 100 pound or bigger type of German Shepard, we have one, and he was raised around all the other animals here, so he respects the barn cats and protects them too. He knows how to attack and kill full grown raccoons, so a German Shepard raised with your cats should be able to ward off or kill any invading fishers or other critters for that matter, what do you think WI folk?

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 18, 2001.

I already have a big dog that is part german shepherd but I don't let him loose at night as the neighbors drive a mite fast down our road at night. But, he is useless anyway. I watched him sit on the porch and watch a rabbit run across the yard yesterday. Notice, my cats are dumb and my dog is useless. I get em everytime! Thank you,thank you for all the help!

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), January 18, 2001.

Depends on the dog, Annie. It would have to be one tough, fast, and smart dog. The weasel family (to which fisher belong, one of the larger members) is known for its strength, agility, and ferocity. A little bitty short-tail weasel weighs just a few ounces, but will kill and drag off prey several times larger and heavier than itself. We should be glad there aren't any big enough and interested enough to think humans look good.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 18, 2001.

I have noticed something else this last year. I drive late at night, and as a consequence, I see a lot of nocturnal wildlife -- but this year, almost NO raccoons, other years they are all over the place. Were are the raccoons? There's plenty for them to eat, but the population is down. I wonder if the Fishers have started in on them as well. It takes a tough dog to take out a full-grown raccoon, but I think Fishers are much tougher. A friend of mine has a domestic ferret (much smaller than Fishers) who regularly beats the crud out of German Shepherds -- for fun! And locally, the Fishers seem to either be forming packs, or are family groups, and taking on and out domestic dogs. Maybe not a pack of dogs. Hard to say. However, I doubt that any one dog even one that pals with the cats would save them all when they split off to wander at night, esp. if the Fisher has learned where Tasty Treats live. Weasel family is REALLY REALLY smart.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), January 19, 2001.

We have fishers here in Menomonie, WI (west of Eau Claire). A neighbor photographed one at the creek that runs through our place, a couple of years ago. No doubt about what it was.

Jim

-- Jim (jiminwis@yahoo.com), January 19, 2001.

I would like to make a few comments and my intention is not to be attacking, just perhaps change the tone of this thread. Thank you for letting me express my view's. The issue of wildlife is dear to me.

Many animals have been labeled BAD. Many breed of dog, black bear, eagle, the weasel family, etc. All animals need to be handled with caution, but also with logic. For instance, a few years ago everyone ran out and bought dalmation dogs, after the movie 101 dalmations made it's appearence. In a very short while they were labeled bad and flooded the shelter's. One place put down 97 dalmations. I took in a dalmation and people would not get out of their cars and friends would tell their children to stay away from her. She would never have hurt anyone. She herself had been abused out of anger and fear. People hear stories and except them as the norm, not the exception. Not every animal of the same breed is the same. As others out there with controversial dogs know.

I have eagle that live by our place in the warmer month's. The female fishes the river and she has never taken a chicken or otherwise. My ducks swim and sleep down in the river and they are never bothered. Eagle's get bad raps too.

Ferret's have been in the news as of late. There are rare cases of neglected animal's that have not been supervised. I wouldn't leave a baby alone with a ferret any sooner then i would a goat. I have taken in 3 ferret's. Our oldest played with our dog. They were best friend's and he never bit at or acted up in anyway. They would play, slinky would grab our dog's(sadie)tail and sadie would pull him around on the floor. Sadie would walk up to slinky and turn around, then he would grab on and she would hop around pulling him. It was hilarious!

I think in the balance of humans and nature things will happen and losses result. We let our two cats have the run of our property. I am sure they do not get to the fence line and stop. I take a risk, letting them have freedom. I never want to loose them, but the fact remains that if i do, they will have taken more life's then i have lost with the squirrel's, rabbit's, birds, chipmonks, etc. that they have killed. The circle of life!

I agree with many of the above postings. I also feel that fisher are not the cruel, murdering critter's that they have been made out to be in some of the above posts. My husband has trapped all his life and learned from his Grandfather. You do not have to even cover a trap to catch a fisher. I have personally never heard of fisher gangs attacking dogs and neither has the DNR office i spoke to. They tend to be on their own once they leave their family unit, i was told. Any thing is possible and we need to treat wild life with caution. You hear reports of people injured by moose in Canada, black bear problems, buffalo wrecking havoc and the like. When we were out in South Dakota people were having their children walk right up to buffalo. Ploblems can arrise with any animal, reinterduced or otherwise. We need to be careful with animals wild or domesticated. Look at the rooster stories in a earlier thread. Even they can lose it!!

I again say that i am not trying to be mean. I just felt i had to make a comment about the way this tread was heading. I fear for my animals well being the same as the rest of you. I just feel that making people afraid and labeling certain animals as bad, is not the way. It is difficult to lose the animals we spend so much time caring for. I am sorry Ardie for your loss! I just feel that the fact remains the biggest of all predator's is mankind.

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), January 20, 2001.

Shau Marie (BTW, how do you pronouce your name?), I was puzzled by your post. I didn't take it as an attack, but I really do no understand how you got the impression that we were villifing the fisher. I had to read back through the thread to see who called the fisher's "bad" or "cruel, murdering". I couldn't find anyone who said that. Unless you mean in Ardie's original post about liking to kill. I guess no one stated any disagreement with that. So, I will say that I DO disagree. Fishers kill to eat. "Like to kill" would describe, IMO, a pack of domestic dogs killing sheep apparently for the thrill and leaving them uneaten. That's a whole 'nother discussion.

For myself, I felt we were discussing their habits and capabilities, without labelling them either good or bad. In my view, they exist as they are, and I would prefer to PREVENT them from getting any of my critters rather than killing the fisher. That is in the abstract, however. I can't guarantee I wouldn't try to kill or trap a fisher or any other predator that was killing my critters.

I commented that we should be grateful that none of them seem to be interested in attacking humans. This was sort of a comment on their prodigious strength and, yes, ferocity (this is not a judgement against them for being ferocious, just noting that they ARE) make them capable of inflicting a great deal of damage on animals many times larger than themselves. It is also a fact that they are cautious enough not to mindlessly endanger themselves this way.

Raccoons can be very tough customers as well. To say that it would be smart to keep your pets away from them doesn't mean that raccoons are evil. As for whether or not fishers will attack domestic pets, re-read Julie's post. She has first-hand reports from the owners of both cats and dogs that were attacked by fishers. If it hasn't happened in your area, that doesn't mean that it won't or can't. And frankly, do the DNR folks know EVERYTHING that happens? The attacks may not even be reported to them. We should be aware of what hazards we and/or our animals might face and take precautions.

Perhaps we were remiss in not noting more strongly: Fishers do not, normally, attack humans (the normally is to allow for a cornered or rabid animal, rare occurances hopefully). I actually generally favor re-introduction of animals exterminated in their former range. I wish they'd reintroduce the elk, moose, and bison that were part of the Wisconsin landscape at one time. We probably don't have enough natural habitat for them though. Hitting one on the road wouldn't be fun either . . . .

Now on the subject of cats outdoors, I feel rather strongly that cats should be kept indoors or have escape proof outdoors quarters. But I try not to impose that belief on others.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 20, 2001.

Joy, My name is pronounced Shaw. It's a very different name.

I was not trying to acccuse, I was just trying to make a point about generalizing. I appreciate that the forum gives me the opportunity to do this. Thanks for listening!

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), January 21, 2001.

JLS and others -- fishers are not indigenous to anywhere -- they're a "hybrid" developed in Canada to wipe out the porcupines -- MANY years ago.

They are the meanest animal and will literally attack anything. Do not ever approach one without a gun -- as they think nothing of attacking a human. Dad had one getting into the barn one winter and taking chickens, cats, anything that it could carry away -- he eventually trapped it -- the thing had a trap closed ON IT'S NECK and was still jumping around ready to attack as Dad approached it with the gun.

They are beautiful -- long and sleek, but meaner than heck.

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), January 21, 2001.

How long ago was this supposed to be that they were hybridized? I can't find anything to suggest that they were. I found references to trapping them as wild animals for pelts back in the 1800's. My grandfather told me years ago that we did not have them in this area when it was first settled/logged off, and that later they came down from Canada and parts northward as game increased. Same thing for whitetail deer back then. No browse = no deer. Once the big trees were cut, the whitetail moved in and now they are everywhere too.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), January 21, 2001.

On reintroduced species, my problem is beavers. They were once pretty well wipped out by traping, but the DNR, in their infinite wisdom, decided to reintroduce them. Now they have become a nusiance. They get into my pond and stop up the outflow, causing the pond to overflow. I hire my neighbor's son to come in for a $20 per beaver bounty. Heck, he'd probably do it for free.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 22, 2001.

WOW! Lots of answers! Didn't have time to read them all, but I'll jump in anyway. Fishers are a very large member of the weasel family, the only larger one being the wolverine. They are tremendously powerful and absolutely fearless. There is a study going on here in Maine concerning lynx, which reach 20 lbs or better. Very surprisinigly, they suspect that fishers are the prime predator, although fishers average 12 to 14 lbs! Coyotes will dine on house cats with great pleasure and efficiency. But fishers may very well be your problem. GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), January 22, 2001.

Julie, you are correct. Tracy is in error. The Hudson Bay Company records shows Fisher pelts being traded for in the early 1700's. I have never before heard of genetic engineering before 1900 let alone 1700.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 23, 2001.

Oy vey!

I think that next summer, when I can get around easier, I'll set a live trap or two. I will probably have to let my stupid cats out a lot, but I may also catch whatever is out there. In the meantime, the cats all sleep either in the dog house,with or without the dog, or in an old pickup truck, near the house. Now, should I drop the thread, you think? Should we go on to WHY I have stupid cats and a useless dog? LOL!

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), January 23, 2001.

Hey, thread go on until no one posts on them any more! Have you seen all the year old threads that have been revived lately! ;-)

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 23, 2001.

Okay! I just didn't want anyone getting bored! I mean, some of us may get cranky from cabin fever or something. You know what I mean..... I ordered some seeds today! That made me feel like there IS hope for spring!

-- Ardie from Wi (a6203@hotmail.com), January 23, 2001.