Can anyone answer a question for me....Please!

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Hello, I hope I am not interupting anything you people do here, but I thought this might be a good place to ask this question. First of all I am not catholic or protestant or what have you. In fact aetheism is more my beliefs at this point, but to get to the question. I am studying up on the illuminati and i came across this guy that was a catholic priest and I wondered if anyone might have any information on him......here is a brief copy and paste that I found that can clue you in on him......... *****Behind the United States and its Constitution is a small group of men whose sole objective is to enslave the whole world and humanity in their satanic plot for a one world govenment. Now to give you a very clear picture of this satanic plot, I will go back to its beginning, back to the middle of the 18th Century, and name the men who put that plot into action.

This satanic plot was launched back in the 1760's when it first came into existence under the name of the Illuminati. This Illuminati was organized by one Adam Weishaupt who became a convert to Catholicism and later a Catholic priest. Then, at the request of the Financiers, he defected from the Catholic Church, and organized the Illuminati which was financed by the International Bankers.

Every war since then, beginning with the French Revolution, has been promoted by the Illuminati operating under various names and guises. I say under various names and guises because, after the Illuminati was exposed and became too notorious, Weishaupt and his co-conspirators began to operate under various other names.

But why did the world conspirators chose the word "Illuminati" for their satanic organization? Weishaupt himself said that the word is derived from Lucifer and means «holders of the light».***** please help me if you can. thanks, Igor Snith

-- igor snith (igorsnith@hotmail.com), January 24, 2001

Answers

Dear Igor--
I've heard this name, Illuminati'' mentioned in some references to heresies of the last few centuries. I'm not clear on what their doctrines were, or whether the heresy continues to exist anywhere in the world. It would not be surprising. I am of the understanding it means ''Enlightened Ones,'' and if you think about it, every ''free-thinker'' going back to the French Revolution is in some way associated with ''The Enlightenment''; which is something of an oxymoron. Because its adherents were many of them Godless men. <> If you are an atheist, and are not enlightened by the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ as yet; let me welcome you to this site. Please remain a few weeks if you wish. It may be good for you to learn --WHY-- some of the world's greatest minds have been believers.

Maybe somebody else in here can give you more accurate information about the Illuminati. Let us wait a day or two?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 24, 2001.


Igor,

Pardon the mess around here. Here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia Link has to say about him:

Illuminati

The name assumed by the members of a secret society founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776.

HISTORY

Weishaupt was born of Westphalian parents at Ingolstadt (Bavaria), on 6 February, 1748, and lost his father in 1753. Although educated at a Jesuit school, he fell early under the influence of his free-thinking godfather, the director of the high-school of Ickstatt, to whom he owed his appointment as professor of civil law at the University of Ingolstadt in 1772. He was the first layman to occupy the chair of canon law at this university (1773), but, in consequence of the growing rationalistic influence which he exerted over the students both in his academic capacity and in his personal intercourse with them, he came into ever sharper collision with the loyal adherents of the Church and with those who were influential in government circles. As, furthermore, his obstinate nature led him to quarrel with almost everyone with whom his intercourse was at all prolonged, he felt the need of a powerful secret organization to support him in the conflict with his adversaries and in the execution of his rationalistic schemes along ecclesiastical and political lines. At first (1774) he aimed at an arrangement with the Freemasons. Closer inquiry, however, destroyed his high estimate of this organization, and he resolved to found a new society which, surrounded with the greatest possible secrecy, would enable him most effectually to realize his aims and could at all times be precisely adapted to the needs of the age and local conditions.

His order was to be based entirely on human nature and observation; hence its degrees, ceremonies, and statutes were to be developed only gradually; then, in the light of experience and wider knowledge, and with the co-operation of all the members, they were to be steadily improved. For his prototype he relied mainly on Freemasonry, in accordance with which he modelled the degrees and ceremonial of his order. After the pattern of the Society of Jesus, though distorting to the point of caricature its essential features, he built up the strictly hierarchical organization of his society. "To utilize for good purposes the very means which that order employed for evil ends", such was, according to Philo (Endl. Erkl., 60 sq.), "his pet design". For the realization of his plans, he regarded as essential the "despotism of superiors" an the "blind, unconditional obedience of subordinates" (ibid.), along with the utmost secrecy and mysteriousness. At the beginning of 1777 he entered a Masonic Lodge and endeavoured, with other members of the order, to render Freemasonry as subservient as possible to his aims. As Weishaupt, however, despite all his activity as an agitator and the theoretic shrewdness he displayed, was at bottom only an unpractical bookworm, without the necessary experience of the world, his order for a long time made no headway. The accession to it, in 1780, of the Masonic agent Freiherr von Knigge (Philo), a man of wide experience and well known everywhere in Masonic circles, gave matters a decisive turn. In company with Weishaupt, who, as a philosopher and jurist, evolved the ideas and main lines of the constitution, Knigge began to elaborate rapidly the necessary degrees and statutes (until 1780 the Minerval degree was the only one in use), and at the same time worked vigorously to extend the order, for which within two years he secured 500 members. When the great international convention of Freemasons was held at Wilhelmsbad (16 July to 29 August, 1782) the "Illuminated Freemasonry", which Knigge and Weishaupt now proclaimed to be the only "pure" Freemasonry, had already gained such a reputation that almost all the members of the convention clamoured for admission into the new institution. Particularly valuable for the order was the accession of Bode (Amelius), who commanded the highest respect in all Masonic circles. Assisted by Bode, Knigge laboured diligently to convert the whole Masonic body into "Illuminated Freemasons". A number of the most prominent representatives of Freemasonry and "enlightenment" became Illuminati, including, in 1783, Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick, the foremost leader of European Freemasonry and the princely representative of the illuminism of his age. Other famous members were Goethe, Herder, and Nicolai. The order was also propagated in Sweden, Russia, Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Austria, and France. But in 1783 dissensions arose between Knigge and Weishaupt, which resulted in the final withdrawal of the former on 1 July, 1784. Knigge could no longer endure Weishaupt's pedantic domineering, which frequently assumed offensive forms. He accused Weishaupt of "Jesuitism", and suspected him of being "a Jesuit in disguise" (Nachtr., I, 129). "And was I", he adds, "to labour under his banner for mankind, to lead men under the yoke of so stiff-necked a fellow?--Never!"

Moreover, in 1783 the anarchistic tendencies of the order provoked public denunciations which led, in 1784, to interference on the part of the Bavarian Government. As the activity of the Illuminati still continued, four successive enactments were issued against them (22 June, 1784; 2 March, and 16 August, 1785; and 16 August, 1787), in the last of which recruiting for the order was forbidden under penalty of death. These measures put an end to the corporate existence of the order in Bavaria, and, as a result of the publication, in 1786, of its degrees and of other documents concerning it--for the most part of a rather compromising nature--its further extension outside Bavaria became impossible. The spread of the spirit of the Illuminati, which coincided substantially with the general teachings of the "enlightenment", especially that of France, was rather accelerated than retarded by the persecution in Bavaria. In two letters addressed to the Bishop of Freising (18 June and 12 November, 1785) Pius VI had also condemned the order. As early as 16 February, 1785, Weishaupt had fled from Ingolstadt, and in 1787 he settled at Gotha. His numerous apologetic writings failed to exonerate either the order or himself. Being now the head of a numerous family, his views on religious and political matters grew more sober. After 1787 he renounced all active connexion with secret societies, and again drew near to the Church, displaying remarkable zeal in the building of the Catholic church at Gotha. he died on 18 November, 1830, "reconciled with the Catholic Church, which, as a youthful professor, he had doomed to death and destruction"--as the chronicle of the Catholic parish in Gotha relates.

OBJECTS AND ORGANIZATION

As exhibiting the objects and methods of the order, those documents are authoritative which are given in the first and second sections of works in the bibliography. The subsequent modifications of the system, announced by Weishaupt in his writings after 1785, are irrelevant, since the order had spread far and wide before these modifications were published. The above-named documents reveal as the real object of the Illuminati the elaboration and propagation of a new popular religion and, in the domain of politics, the gradual establishment of a universal democratic republic. In this society of the future everything, according to Weishaupt, was to be regulated by reason. By "enlightenment" men were to be liberated from their silly prejudices, to become "mature" or "moral", and thus to outgrow the religious and political tutelage of Church and State, of "priest and prince". Morals was the science which makes man "mature", and renders him conscious of his dignity, his destiny, and his power. The principal means for effecting the "redemption" was found in unification, and this was to be brought about by "secret schools of wisdom". These "schools", he declares, "were always the archives of nature and of the rights of man; through their agency, man will recover from his fall; princes and nations, without violence to force them, will vanish from the earth; the human race will become one family, and the world the habitation of rational beings. Moral science alone will effect these reforms `imperceptibly'; every father will become, like Abraham and the patriarchs, the priest and absolute lord of his household, and reason will be man's only code of law" ("Nachtr.", p. 80 sq.; repeated verbatim in Knigge, "Die neuesten Arbeiten", p. 38). This redemption of mankind by the restoration of the original "freedom and equality" through "illumination" and universal charity, fraternity, and tolerance, is likewise the true esoteric doctrine of Christ and his Apostles. Those in whom the "illuminating" grace of Christ is operative (cf. Heb., vi, 4) are the "Illuminati". The object of pure (i. e. illuminated) Freemasonry is none other than the propagation of the "enlightenment" whereby the seed of a new world will be so widely scattered that no efforts at extirpation, however violent, will avail to prevent the harvest ("Nachtr.", pp. 44, 118; "Die neuesten Arb.", pp. 11, 70). Weishaupt later declared (Nachtrag zu meiner Rechtfertigung, 77 sqq., 112 sqq.) that Masonry was the school from which "these ideas" emanated.

These objects of the order were to be revealed to members only after their promotion to the "priestly" degree (Nachtr., I, 68). The preliminary degrees were to serve for the selection, preparation, and concealment of the true "Illuminati"; the others were to open the way for the free religion and social organization of the future, in which all distinction of nations, creeds, etc., would disappear. The government of the order was administered by the superiors of the Minerval "churches", "provincials", "nationals", and "areopagites" (who constituted the supreme council), under the direction of Weishaupt as general of the order. Members were acquainted only with their immediate superiors, and only a few trusted members knew that Weishaupt was the founder and supreme head of the order. All the members were obliged to give themselves a training in accordance with the aims of the society, and to make themselves useful, while the order, on its part, pledged itself to further their interests by the most effectual means. They were especially recommended to systematically observe persons and events, to acquire knowledge, and to pursue scientific research in so far as it might serve the purposes of the order. Concerning all persons with whom they had intercourse they were to gather information, and on all matters which could possibly affect either themselves or the order they were to hand in sealed reports; these were opened by superiors unknown to the writers, and were, in substance, referred to the general. The purpose of this and other regulations was to enable the order to attain its object by securing for it a controlling influence in all directions, and especially by pressing culture and enlightenment into its service. All illuministic and official organs, the press, schools, seminaries, cathedral chapters (hence, too, all appointments to sees, pulpits, and chairs) were to be brought as far as possible under the influence of the organization, and princes themselves were to be surrounded by a legion of enlightened men, in order not only to disarm their opposition, but also to compel their energetic co-operation. A complete transformation would thus be effected; public opinion would be controlled; "priests and princes" would find their hands tied; the marplots who ventured to interfere would repent their temerity; and the order would become an object of dread to all its enemies.

Concerning the influence actually exerted by the Illuminati, the statements of ex-Freemasons--L. A. Hossman, J. A. Starck, J. Robinson, the Abbé Barruel, etc.--must be accepted with reserve, when they ascribe to the order a leading rôle in the outbreak and progress of the French Revolution of 1789. Their presentation of facts is often erroneous, their inferences are untenable, and their theses not only lack proof, but, in view of our present knowledge of the French Revolution (cf., e. g., Aulard, "Hist. pol. de la Rév. Franç.", 3rd ed., 1905; Lavisse-Rambaud, "Hist. générale", VIII, 1896), they are extremely improbable. On the other hand, once it had discarded, after 1786, the peculiarities of Weishaupt, "Illuminationism" was simply the carrying out of the principles of "enlightenment"; in other words, it was Freemasonry and practical Liberalism adapted to the requirements of the age; as such it exerted an important influence on the intellectual and social development of the nineteenth century. (See MASONRY; SECRET SOCIETIES.)

The documents, unquestionably genuine, that originated within the order and were published by the Bavarian government: Einige Originalschr. des Ill. Ordens (confiscated from Zwack) (Munich, 1787); with Nachtrag (seized from Baron Bassus) (in 2 parts, 1787); also documents made public through other agencies and recognized as genuine by Knigge and Weishaupt: Der echte Illuminat (Edessa, 1788); Illuminatus dirigens oder schottischer Ritter (1794); SPARTACUS AND PHILO (KNIGGE), Die neuesten Arbeiten (1794); PHILO, Endliche Erklärung (1788).

Declarations by members who left the order: COSANDEY, RENNER, AND GRÜNBERGER, Drei merkwürdige Aussagen (1786); IDEM (with UTZSCHNEIDER), Grosse Absichten des Ill. Ordens, with three appendices (1786).

In defence of the order: WEISHAUPT Apologie der Illuminaten (Frankfort and Leipzig, 1787); IDEM, Vollständige Gessch. d. Verfolgung der Illuminaten in Bayern (Frankfort and Leipzig, 1786); IDEM, Pythagoras, oder Betrachtungen über die geheime Welt- and Regierungskunst (1790).

Against the order or otherwise concerning it: STATTLER (Weishaupt's colleague at Ingolstadt), Das Geheimniss der Bosheit des Stifters des Ill. Ordens (1787); PRESTON, Illustrations of Freemasonry (1856); MOUNIER, De l'influence attribuée aux Philosophes, aux Franc-maçons et aux Illuminés sur la révolution Française (1822); JARCKE, Vermischte Schriften, II (1839); DESCHAMPS-JANET, La société et les sociétés, II (3rd ed., 1880), 93 sqq., 115 sqq.; III (1883), 34 sqq.; WOLFRAM, Die Illuminaten in Bayern u. ihre Verfolgung (1899-1900); ENGEL, Gesch. des Ill. Ordens (1906) (rich in documents, but favourable to Weishaupt); Hist-polit. Blätter (1889), I, 926-41 (official list of Illuminati).

HERM. GRUBER Transcribed by Thomas J. Bress

Hope it helps,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 24, 2001.


To Frank:I would like to thank you, very much! Frank. The info was very helpful!

To Eugene:Actually, I am very surprised that I didn't get the bible bashing that I am used to.If anything catches my eye that I would like to respond to, I might take you up on your offer, but if this turns out to be a ply to bring me in and then bash me. I will not tolerate it, and will not associate with your community. I do give you thanks for your honesty and comment.

,Igor

-- igor snith (igorsnith@hotmail.com), January 25, 2001.


Dear Igor,

as I may say that I feel truely happy that there are more guys like me out there who believe there must be a truth behind the "matrix". For sure it is good to get these views. I ain't sure if the text that one of the contributers gives you the information that "illumination" is more than the blatent historical enlightenment idea. you would better check the web under seacrhers for "+illuminat +Adam Weishaupt" e.g. some sites 4 U seti23.org www.netcologne.de/~nc-schmitbo/books.html protest.exit.mytoday.de/subolaf/23.html www.loq12.at/conspiracy/02_dollar/con_gstory1.ihtml www.danbrown.com/ad/illuminati2.htm

But on top let me give u some about this illumination. It derives from Latin and it's translation is indeed Enlightenment. Though this enlightenment is caused in the eyes of Weishaupt (or even Washington, Goethe, Beethove etc.) by drugs (marihuana in those days/nowadays artificials bring better gnosis of the sprirtual reality like mescaline, acid, speed etc.). I would call it just a satanistic pseudo-truth as I think nothing of this is a gnosis. They clear off their mind and get a real trip (I dunno if you have ever smoked a joint?) and global thoughts and abolute moments of clearity (like in Pulp Fiction) fulfill their minds (and unfortunatetly their hearts). Thus they confine themselves from the rest of the world. They are different and to their minds nearer to the Gods. They profit from the freemasonary system and the global syndicates as they are connected to every powerful man, they got dough to buy and ruin whole nations, they want to rule and will it will the freethinker's revolution which is not likely to come as they already control everthing. It is also said that they might overthrow the US gov to test a new politcal system, we had communsism in Russia, socialism in the former GDR, fashism in the Reich, early democracy in France (after the first big revoution in the new age), but nothing has happend to the States, not yet.. Maybe all that crap about the symbolism of the 23 and the pyramid on the dollar bill is untrue. But I rembembered a friend telling me the biggest fraud of the devil was to make the world think he does not exist. If you are free to learn more I'd recomment you to read Illuminatus! by Robert A Wilson and Shea. It is giving very good information. If you want to talk anything over just drop in a mail. Best Wishes and continuing couriosity and openminedness for the truth. Yours

Bleak

-- Bleak (bleakdefreeze@hotmail.com), May 12, 2001.


Hello!

It would be nice, if some of you guys would contact me!!!

Think about:

11.09.2001 = 23 (The day of the terror attack in america!!!!

ICQ#: 77231705

Plz!!!

-- Roman (shmou@gmx.de), September 17, 2001.



Roman, you said,

11.09.2001 = 23 (The day of the terror attack in america!!!!

First, it's truly amazing your aquaducts are still standing! By my count though 11+9+2001=2021!

The twentieth book of the Bible is 1 Maccabees (20). The second chapter (2) first line (1) =2021 =

You will find in the records, not only that Jeremiah the prophet ordered the deportees to take some of the aforementioned fire with them,

You were right in a sense, it WAS a prophecy, You just got the wrong one!

Frank

P.S. For those not familiar with me, this is intended as a joke, or I suppose an editorial. There are so many ways to interpret the Bible that someone without the Magesterium's divine guidance is bound to go astray sooner or later when left to their own devices.

-- Someone (franksomeone@hotmail.com), September 17, 2001.


I'm not so sure about that, Frank.
You were fine with that 11+0+2001 = 2021.
But I'd have to go with the 2,021st verse of the Bible (Exodus 19:4), in which God says:
"You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself."

-- (_@_._), September 18, 2001.

"--",

The 2021 verse was my first try too, but I couldn't find a search engine to figure out what that would be! Is there one on the internet? As you can see, I did however come up with another numerology finding which is just as appropriate though, and still proves my point -- anyone can juggle numbers around and come up with a meaningful (or not) verse, the Bible is *full* of meaningful verses. That doesn't mean the verse *actually applies* to the situation though, and more to the point, it doesn't mean that juggling numbers in this fashion is an *appropriate* means of coming to the truth.

Frank

-- Someone (franksomeone@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.


I agree with you fully, Frank.
My message was written with tongue in cheek -- though I have to admit that I really determined the 2021st verse the hard way, adding up all the numbers of verses in the chapters of Genesis and Exodus until I got there.
No search engine. Chapter numbers and verse numbers are artificial anyway.


-- (_@_._), September 18, 2001.

"--",

Come to think of it, I probably spent as much time *looking* for a way to find the "x" numbered verse as it would have taken to add them up. Oh well, had I found it I could have added it to the "links" category too.

Frank

-- Someone (franksomeone@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.



what is my pet name? what

-- mahvish (chandmaha@hotmail.com), April 03, 2002.

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