Hi everyone,

My husband and I and our 11 children presently live in 2 mobile homes connected together by a small room. We would like to get beyond this and have been checking into some other housing possibilities either here on our 3/4 of an acre or possibly buying somewhere else.

We have checked into double wides---very expensive!!! Even though we could get the loan---it scares us to death to think of the 30 year mortage and the amount we would have to pay back. We have also checked into cabin and housing kits that are constructed on your property--for you to finish off. Has anyone gone in either of these directions?

If we did either one of these things we would want to do a basement under it, but that would cost another $15,000. My husband only makes $19,000.00 a year, so, what we can do is VERY limited. Our two mobile homes are eating us up with fuel costs. One trailer has a fuel oil furnace the other has an electric furnace(which hardly ever runs), and it also has a propane gas fireplace which we put in to help defray the electric costs. Our electric bill still averages around $225.00 per month, and fuel costs are around 300.00 per month during the colder months.

We would have a woodburner, but, we can't get any homeowners insurance to cover our home if we install one. I guess what we really want is some wisdom from those who know more than we do, and, who can give us some good advice. If you have any ideas that might help us we sure would appreciate them.

Thanks

-- Marsha (Thankful4Jesus@excite.com), January 30, 2001

Answers

Hi Marsha! It would help a great deal to know where you live and if you need to stay there because of jobs, etc....For instance, Southern Missouri land, complete with an old farmhouse that needs repairs, can be had for less than $50,000 in some areas. When we were looking last year, we found several opportunties to purchase 6 bedroom farmhouses on at least 10 acres for that price or less..taxes are incredibly cheap..of course the homes need substantial elbow grease, but they were more than livable. Also, I was offered a job at a prison in Pine Bluff Arkansas last November..the salary was sooo good that we had to go check it out. We saw one place that was on 6 acres of land with a home that had 5 bedrooms, 2 full baths and even had a barn..the asking price was $12,000. we did not bite because we decided Arkansas (at least that area) was too flat for us..we like our hills! Anyway, my point is that some really neat property exists for relatively little money in both of these rural areas, with many folks getting employment at the state or fed prisons..Good luck with your search, and God bless!

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 30, 2001.

A solid house, even if smaller, might save you in the long run. Though many of us are reluctant to use it, there is government help for utility bills for the working poor. This might be something you could explore. Is there a Habitat for Humanity in your area? You sound like a perfect candidate for the program. There are also other programs that offer insulation and basic home repair (ie. a deck) for no cost. Check with non-profit organizations in your area if you are inclined.

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), January 30, 2001.

Hi Marsha, nice to meet you. I agree, we need to know what state you are in and if you are able to re-locate or not. There is a big old farmhouse somewhere out there just waiting for a family like yours! It would seem the best solution, since you need rooms for all the kids to explore and trees to climb. Let us know where you live and maybe we can help you search for one. It's good that you are able to get a loan too.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), January 31, 2001.

If do you consider an old farm house, have someone who knows what they are going thoroughly inspect the foundation, basement (if one) and roof systems. A good foundation and roof makes maintaining what is inbetween much easier.

Other considerations are the well on quality and quantity, septic system (you would be putting quite a load on one), electrical system (again a load here), insulation (or lack thereof), number of bathrooms, quality of windows and heating/cooling systems.

On rebuilding old houses like this I have seen people remove the siding one side at a time. This gives access for insulating, wiring and perhaps some additional plumbing. The siding was then replaced by plywood, covered with house wrap, then alum. or plastic siding.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 31, 2001.

I'm still dumb founded with 11 children .All the laundry , cooking, and cleaning .Not to mention the bickering .God bless .Hopefully I will have a better answer for you soon.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), January 31, 2001.

Hi Marsha, I agree w/ Ken 100% get some one who knows old houses to do the inspection and maybe een be there when they do it. As others know our house is 1/2 log 1/2 frame the fram part gives us more problems then then log. It is ery cold and we still cant figure out what it is built on{there is no cellar so we think it maybe on the dirt} .We also had BIG problems with the septic{it was an old car w/ a hole in the roof}it fell apart a few months after we moed in.As far as the log part just walk around ,make sure the home does not seem to sag or bow any where and check the roof system{our is logs pegged w/ a standing seem roof very cold } but in order to change it we would spend a fortune. Look around and see whats out there ,take a drie and see if there are any private sales. good luck

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), January 31, 2001.

I hae got to ask ...how old are your kids? and are you a Saint? mine {4} are driing me nuts this week i cant imagin 11. Also do you homeschool? tell me if I am being to nosey!

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), January 31, 2001.

With 11 kids, some of those kids can do chores. I'll bet if you found a fixer-upper, you could get the kids to fix the place up pretty nice.

With a little insulation, so many bodies should keep a house pretty warm!

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), January 31, 2001.

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry that I forgot to tell you that we live in PA. My husband would love to get a better job, but, in our area the wage that my husband makes ($10.00 an hour plus time and a half)is pretty good for here.

We have considered moving back to Ohio (where I'm from) or WV (where he is from), but, the job market isn't much better unless you can get into some plant job opening. Last year my husband went back to Ohio to apply for a job opening at a large plant in the area. There were 3 positions open, and, more than 1,000 people applied for the jobs!!!

We are presently considering a house that is in our home guides in our area, but, the owners want to sell "AS IS". We don't know if the furnace works, or if the septic works, or if the water is good. They are asking $29,000.00. We think we could get them down more, but, we are certainly taking a chance on if everything is in working order.

I hope this information helps a little. Have a great day!!!

-- Marsha (Thankful4Jesus@excite.com), January 31, 2001.

Marsha, have you considered building your own home? Not having someone else build it, doing it yourselves? My husband and I did that and we did not have any previous building experience. Sure saved MEGA bucks! We eventually sold that house at a nice profit and built another one on a bigger farm. It's lots of work but certainly worth it and if your husband is at all handy, he could do it!

-- bwilliams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), January 31, 2001.

What area of PA? Is the 29K house very large? Seems like a good price if there is enough room for you, any land to go with? A large garden would put out allot of food. How are your zoning rules up there where you are looking? Check them good before you buy anything. Your mortgage on the 29K house would be less than your heating bill right now. Plus it sounds like you would be able to sell the 3/4 acre place, and use that money too.

With a house, you would be able to use wood heat. I wonder if your insurance co. would approve an outdoor wood furnance. You can always take it with you if you move. There are some companys that sell them that will finance them for you. I could not handle 500 a month for heat, no way. Woodmaster.com has some forced air units for 125 a month, just heat, not hot water, but geeee. That's less than your fuel bill now. Keep us posted!

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), January 31, 2001.

If an owner insists on selling a house as-is, that is a pretty sure sign it has at least one major defect. You could still insist on a whole house inspection (at your expense) to see what you would be getting into.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 31, 2001.

When you go to looking into a mortgage, check on the difference in getting a 15 yr mortgage vs. a 30 year. If you can swing it, for not that much more a month, you can pay the place off twice as fast, paying tons less in the long run.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), January 31, 2001.

Mary:

Yes, that is one way. The other is to take the 30-year mortgage and make double principle payments when you can. If you consistently make double principle payments, the mortgage will still be paid off in about 15 years, but it offers some slack for bad months.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 31, 2001.

Marsha, I agree that building your own house is the "best" way. I built mine as a one room cabin, with planning to add on later. I was able to pay cash that way. Then every time I was able to save up enough money, I added onto the house. After six or eight years, I had a three bedroom two bath house, all paid for. It's amazing how much money you can save if you don't have big monthly mortgage.

Ken, you say that making double payments every month on a thirty year loan will enable you to pay it off in 15 years. I wish I had my amortization book handy (SOMEBODY didn't put it back where it belongs), but I can tell you that you would pay it back a heck of a lot faster than fifteen years that way. The payments to pay off a loan in fifteen years aren't all that much higher than thirty, depending on the interest rates.

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), January 31, 2001.

To pay off a 30yr mortgage in 15 years, you pay the current month amount plus just the principal for the next month. It's a double principal payment but not a "double payment". The first several years of the note, that extra principal amount will not be very much. You're right that if you paid double your payment amount, you would pay it off quite a lot faster than that. Most of us can't quite swing that, though.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), January 31, 2001.

Consider an alternative methods home - straw bale or rammed earth or some such. Most are dirt cheap (literally, as a rammed earth uses the dirt from the site, along with a small amount of portland cement) and are "owner built" friendly, as they require little in the way of training or experience. If you want to see some "in action", take a vacation to southern WV to a Habitat for Humanity "group area" called Almost Heaven. They do all sorts of these types of homes, and you can volunteer for a week to get your nails dirty and see for yourself that it ain't no big thang. Check the HFH home site for details about how to find the affiliate (I forget right off hand).

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 31, 2001.

If your husband was a carpenter, man-o-man, would there be a job waiting for him in the Nashville, TN area. Apprentices start out at about $10 an hour. Skilled carpenters at about $14 and finish carpenters more than that.

Labor is so tight in the area even unskilled labor is being bid up beyond minimum wages.

If your interested in looking at this area, send your address to my e- mail account and I'll send you the classified ads out of Sunday's The Tennessean.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 01, 2001.

There is another option that I'm surprised not to have seen yet. Moving a house. I had a friend near Lawrence KS who allready owned his land, so he asked around to see if anyone knew of a house that needed moved, for free. He didn't hear anything, so he put out an add saying something like " Will move that old house off your property for free- stop paying taxes now!" He had three calls withen 24 hours. He settled on a 3 bedroom (one level), and built a basement, then paid 6M to have the house moved. He did have to do some roof work, but he got his place for UNDER 20 THOUSAND, and It's a nice place. You can move two story houses too, but there can't be lines or underpasses between where it is, and where it should be. You might be able to find one for the price of moving. You might consider a partial basement if you need to save some money. Good luck.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), February 01, 2001.

Here's another thought that I haven't seen anyone mention (and bless you for being brave enough to have a "quiver full" of children!). You could do this two ways, on the land you have now, or get a larger piece of land and move the trailers you already have. Either way, start by building a roof over one or both of your trailers. Then add walls around (this will help with your heating bill right away, too). Store up the materials and pull one of the trailers out and finish off the inside of that part of your new house, then repeat with the other part. You can do a lot with scavenged materials and your own family's labor, even the children can do their part. Of course it would be nice if you could find more land, but even on 3/4 acre you can do a lot. If you go this route, you will want to plan what your new house will look like inside and out carefully so it will still work in the half-done phases of construction. And insulate it well -- our old farmhouse isn't well insulated, and it costs as much to heat as your two trailers, and is drafty to boot. Do a lot of studying and planning before you start. If you don't already have one, it would be worth building a garage, shed, or carport to store materials as you find them. Otherwise you may have to pass up real bargains because you have no place to keep the stuff out of the weather. And the storage building would always come in useful for something else after the house was finished. Hope this helps.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), February 01, 2001.

Look up Mike Oehler's book on p/s/p construction. I am planning a 40x60 "Barn" with wood floor. Will cost it and post results here if I remember to. Looks like a CHEAP way to get a lot of space which will be comfortable year-round with little heat and, if you live in Pennsylvania, probably NO Cooling bill. God Bless you.

-- Bob Blessum (robertblessum@netscape.net), February 02, 2001.

Many states offer low-interest loans and state (possibly federal) tax credits for things like earth-sheltered homes, alternative energy production (solar/wind/water, etc) and there may be grants from private sources as well. I would check out those books by Mr. Lesko (Free Money!!! guy on late nite tv) - they usually have them at the library in the reference section.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 02, 2001.

COMFORT IN ANY CLIMATE This is an interesting little book. It is a short but it has lots of illustrations that break apart climate, thermal mass, and insulation. The author describes how different your building construction has to be for comfort in any of the various climates in the US; Arizona (hot desert), Texas (hot, humid), Colorado (high mountains), Colorado (dry plains, hot summers, cold winters), Midwest (high-water table), and the Yukon (cold). It was written about earthships, but the ideas presented are very valuable. Anyone considering building will benefit by designing with your local climate in mind. You can buy this book here: http://www.earthship.org/market/books_videos.htm . It is not a how-to book, but a design idea book. Just the idea of heating and cooling with minimal mechanical input is exciting.

-- Jerry (neljer@txcyber.com), February 02, 2001.