I've had this fantasy for a couple years now. We build our "dream barn", with perfectly designed accomadations for the critters. It's a traditional gable roofed building, built between the two pastures, equine-types on one side, everybody else on the other. On the upper floor, traditionally used for hay storage, we build our living quarters! Probably start out real rustic, (unfinished walls, floors, etc.) and work on comfortizing it while we live there. (Could it possibly be any more rustic than the gutted 180 year old house we live in now?? Amazing, how one's standards drop, when the costs of fixing up an old house become reality!) Anyway, on the one hand, I like the idea of being so close to the animals...instead of trudging outside in a blizzard to do chores, I'd simply go downstairs! Also, wouldn't the heat from animal-bodies rise, making the upstairs warm? We'd save on heating bills! Talk about alternative energy! Of course, there'd be the smells...but I almost have that figured out. I have found that the animals currently housed in our big barn, (pigs, cows, sheep, goats, donkey, geese) DO NOT make waste inside the barn IF I leave the floor bare dirt. Now, if one little flake of hay gets dragged inside, somebody will poop or pee on it immediately. In other words, if I put bedding down, they mess all over it, but if I leave the floor plain dirt, not a single mess. (Well, the birds probably do.) Not sure why this is, but I haven't had to clean that barn for about three years now. The horses, on the other hand, are filthy. They'll walk up from the back of the pasture and go directly into their barn just to s**t. That part of it could be a problem. But if I locked them out of the barn during the day, it'd reduce the amount overall, and if I just stayed on top of the daily cleaning, maybe it wouldn't be a problem. Regular animal/farm smells are not offensive to my family, we could live with that. I'm rambling now. What do you think? Has their ever been a culture or a time in history when living in the barn was common? What other draw-backs can you think of? Benefits? Anyone else have this fantasy?

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), February 01, 2001

Answers

I was in Germany and Belgium during my Army time and that's how all the old homes were in the country and small towns. Many folks still live this way. I don't see the smell as much of a problem w/ regular cleaning. Why not?

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), February 01, 2001.

If you have ever been to Germany, especially in the Black Forest area you will find farmsteads built into the mountainsides with the barn on the bottom and the people living above in one building. The buildings didn't stink either. I couldn't figure it out, unless they spent every waking moment cleaning.

-- R. (thor610@yahoo.com), February 01, 2001.

Living quarters for both people and animals was, and still is to some extent, quite common in many European and Oriental cultures. In Germany it was common for the structure to be built as a square with an inner courtyard. I'm sure living on the second floor with animals below was practiced also. On smells from below or through walls, remember daily bathing is a fairly recent custom. Even in the U.S. it was a fairly standard practice for adults to bathe twice a year. The livestock might have objected to smells coming from the living quarters.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 01, 2001.

On one of the ranches I worked at, I lived in a apt. over the barn. Really neat, tons of horses below in stalls. I think it's a neat smell, shavings mixed with fresh hay. The smell was never too bad. We cleaned the stalls all the time. And you could look down into the arena inside, smelled like dirt. I love those smells.

Steve and I are planning on putting up a 80 foot quanset when and if we move. Drywall one big room on one end for us, and the other half for the animals. We can make some storage upstairs easy. Perfect because you can make them longer anytime you want. Easy to put up, and safe too. Regular price, not on sale, is about 8,000 for 80 feet long. Pretty good price.

I want a cement floor with my cookstove and with our outside wood furnace. And plastic barrels along the south side for hot water during the summer.

I would love looking thru the window and seeing the dogs and animals. How easy to milk in the morning! And hot water in the barn! And lights! It's just me and Steve, so one big room will be fine. With glass blocks around the bathroom about 6 ft. high. No walls. I allready drew out the whole thing, of course. There are web sites with them made into houses and stores.

I don't think I would like to live up so high, I would rather be on the ground, for storms and such, but that's just me. Did you put a fireman's pole in your drawing? he he he

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), February 01, 2001.

I have in-laws that live outside of leavenworth KS and there are a couple homes around there that are barns also. they are the new metal types like morgans ect.. with part of it a home. One place has a bunch of horses on one side and the family on the other and i dont know how many folks live there but every time ive been by it there are at least 5 or 6 4x4 1 ton daullys sitting there. aint sure why they need so many but maybe they do, the other has animals plus two big doors for equipment so it looks like its 3 in 1 i think its a neat idea myself. Mike

-- MikeinKS (mhonk@oz-online.net), February 01, 2001.

LOL - I thought this was a goat thread from someone having a lot of kids!!! I WISH my house was over the barn. Have dreamed of it ever since I read the letters from my GREAT-GREAT-GREAT Grandmother to her grandchildren about the first house they built as settlers. They lived over the animals for quite a few years. I always thought it sounded so neat to be able to just go downstairs and milk.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 01, 2001.

This is very interesting! I was thinking how neat it would be to build a small house, for me, inside of a big barn for critters nad storage. I never realized this has been done anywhere before. I wouldn't want to be upstairs over the critters though, but then again I wouldn't want to be upstairs anywhere. One property I was looking at had a large barn and got me to thinking about this. Now that I think a bit more I know of 50 acres with several barns on it. Hmmmmm thinking some more here!!

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), February 01, 2001.

This has been one of my long-held daydreams! I always pictured that the barn would share a wall with the living quarters. There would be a hallway along the back wall of the barn that entered the house by a door where dirty boots, coats and stuff could be left. That would then be sharing two walls technically. Make it easy for water access and electric hook-up. Go for it.

Shoot, my chickens have a cleaner home (portable) than some folks I know. Rather live with the chickens!

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), February 01, 2001.

I've dreamed about this too. It'd make kidding season a lot easier- I'd like a hatch that I could open in the floor to look down into the kidding pen! Milking would be easier with the little children, I could even do it while they were asleep, and taking them with me wouldn't be such a chore. I'd be closer to the animals and more aware of any mishaps or problems. The milk would be cooled down faster and I could have HOT running water!!

My goats eliminate on a dirt floor the same as they would on bedding. It gets to be a sloppy muddy mess if I don't take care of it. I would just make their ceiling higher than usual and pile up planty of bedding and keep it composting so as the negate some of the odor. I don't think it's the amount of waste that stinks, it's whether or not the urine can drain off, and the ventilation and bedding help, too.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 01, 2001.

We live in the Sandhills of NC and it's where alot of "horse people" bring there horse in the winter months and there are lots of Apartments and houses built over the barns!!!Most of them are for care takers. A friend of my daughters had a job cleaning the stables and feeding horses in exchange for an apartment over the barn! I went over with her several times and it was quite nice! I thought there would be a "stable oder" in the Apt but there wasn't one and it was dusty or anything!

We also have friends who own a sable. Their house is attached to the barn. The bedrooms are over the barn and the living area is on the same level. She says it's really nice when the weather is bad--you just step out into a "hall" that leads to the barn and you don't even get your feet wet! Saves on heating the bedrooms too!

But they don't have a Buck with his dating "aftershave" on!!!!!!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), February 01, 2001.

Oh Dear - I did forget about the BUCKS!!!! LOL

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 01, 2001.

Does a house that looks like a barn count?Goats in the kitchen.ducks in the bath tub.chickens in the living room.Not to mention one large human male that believes in the visible system of organization.I guess my wife isn't such a bad girl after all for letting me get away with it.(.....grin.........)

-- Greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), February 01, 2001.

Shannon, What a great topic! I also lived in Germany and remember seeing some 100+ year old strawbale barns with their homes on the 2nd floor. I also remember the "honey wagons" which removed the soiled hay to their fields for compost. As meticulous as the Germans were about their premises, I wouldn't be surprised if they cleaned their barns every day!

We evacuated during Hurricane Floyd and rented a small house which had 3 horse stalls on both sides--shaped like a 'U'. I raved over that design as I could go out and check on my goats without worrying about the weather. My husband was afraid I might want our future home built like that. I love the concept and having animals close-by!

-- Marsha (CaprisMaa@aol.com), February 01, 2001.

I have several books with plans pertaining to this idea. However, I have also read from several other sources that it isn't a very good idea to put the living quarters directly over the barn for reasons of ventilation and moisture build-up.

A friend of mine out in Arizona has her house directly abutted to her carport where she parks her truck. On the far side of that, directly abutted to the carport so that you can walk directly from house, under roof, is her horse barn. It's a great set up. She has a 6 stall barn and I didn't notice any particular odor (but in a dry enviroment like hers, likely you wouldn't. And I don't know that I'd notice a horse odor anymore anyway!) Her horses have stalls that directly access out onto paddocks and I'd love to have her set up.

I also saw a magazine article on a couple who had changed their attatched garage into a very nice barn area for their two horses. It looked lovely. If your building codes allow for it, and you keep a clean barn (i.e. don't subscribe to the once a year spring muck out theory), I think it would be the way to go for livestock owners without allergies, however, remember that poultry and birds can cause hypersensitivity pneumonitis (Bird Keeper's Lung) if you have then in too close proximity so that you're inhaling fece/feather dust continually.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), February 01, 2001.

I have a book titled, "Complete Plans for Building Horse Barns Big and Small" by Nancy W. Ambrosiano and Mary F. Harcourt. There is a plan in there for an 8 stall horse barn with home overhead that is really cool. It's actually built as a pole barn. The home area is quite large--2400 square foot.

Stacy Rohan in Windsor, NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), February 02, 2001.

I've seen a home just as you describe. There's barely any noticeable odor 'cause they feed the critters food/agriculture grade Diatomaceous Earth.

The area the home was in doesn't have any law that critters have to be so many feet from the human's home.

Altho I think the idea is neat, I've never wanted a barn 'cause I've never stalled/penned my stock.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), February 02, 2001.

I've seen a home just as you describe. There's barely any noticeable odor 'cause they feed the critters food/agriculture grade Diatomaceous Earth.

The area the home is in doesn't have any law that critters have to be so many feet from the human's home.

Altho I think the idea is neat, I've never wanted a barn 'cause I've never stalled/penned my stock.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), February 02, 2001.

I know an old man that his wife makes him keep his homebrew in the barn. He most definatly "lives in the barn". Seriously, we have a neighbor down the way that built a real nice house/barn/arena. He has a picture window overlooking his stable, no problems with smells in the house.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), February 02, 2001.

Great discussion! I like the "temporary shelter" strategy of building a small, simple building on your undeveloped land, moving into it, and then building the main house. Advantages are: 1)put out a small amount of money to eliminate your current mortgage. 2)Gain building experience before you do a bigger project. Problem is, we've got five children already. Can't live in a small space and stay sane.

Possible solution: build a 2400 sq ft p/s/p (earth-sheltered) barn, which is a simple solution and won't require much to meet building/health codes (read: lower cost). We could use it as a place to store materials and tools, place to stay on weekends while working on the homestead. If it holds up through the wet weather, we'd then put in simple bath/kitchen/laundry/composting/greywater and move in. If this p/s/p building turns out to be unsuitable for human quarters, (I doubt there'd be problems, really) then I'd have a huge barn/shop/garage.

-- Bob Blesssum (robertblessum@netscape.net), February 02, 2001.

This has been such a great subject. The only negative comment I would mention is the upper level. At my young age , I am seriously planning for handicap needs/access. Now I'll go back to the drawing board and rethink our house/barn plans for easy access and protection from the elements when accessing both of them. Biggest challenge will be convicing my poor husband...

-- Marsha (CaprisMaa@aol.com), February 02, 2001.

To allow for handicap access and some other concerns, you could build a house/barn in the following manner: build a two story barn with living quarters over the barn and extending out to a one story split-level area to one side, or behind, the barn. Many underground or earth sheltered houses have this kind of bi-level configuration. You have a main entrance at ground level (for handicap acess) that becomes two story over the barn on the other side of the house. Access to the barn (handicap) would have to be through the lower grade front barn entrance, unless you wanted to rig up an elevator or stair chair system.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 02, 2001.

Shannon when we lived in Schwetizen,Germany we had a farm next to us and we didn'T EVEN NO IT. THE Germans slept above and the animals below. THE Germans are very clean people and we didn't even smell anything. We could learn a lot from them.I THINK it's a good idea.

-- PRISCILLA (Mtasheacres@aol.com), February 03, 2001.

Hi,

We live in a converted stable that is 80' x 40' x 14'. I have decided that it isn't so bad just opening a door and walking down the hall to feed, but you have to keep the stalls VERY CLEAN down here in the south as the urine smell will get bad. So right now, the horses are outside while we decide whether they will move back in, with a better drainage system for the stalls (one is a belgian mare, huge messy old girl,) or if I will build a barn somewhere else on the property. That is the only drawback I can think of is that you MUST clean up two or three times per day if the horses stay in alot. But on the plus side, during foaling you just toddle off down the hallway and peek in to see how the mare is, or during bad weather, it is so easy to feed. One thing we did do,while converting the stable into a house, was move all the hay to a shed outside as that is a big creator of dust and possible fire even though our stable is concrete block on a slab foundation. We switched from shavings to sawdust/shavings mix as pure shavings were harder to keep clean. Mares went out during daytime (in winter) and at night during summer. We still have three stalls, a tackroom, and feedroom at one end of the building and we occupy the rest of the building.

BEWARE THE BUILDING INSPECTORS....best to get permission first to build a home this way and also, check with the insurance company to see if your insurance co. will put a policy in place. You may need specialized "horse" type insurance which covers barns with living quarters which is more expensive than regular "homeowners" (at least at the places I have checked).

But we like it and if someone (oops, I mean some animal) gets sick, they can come in without fear of "messing" up the house. All my son's friends think it's cool, but I think their parents probably think we're kooks. :>)

People seem to think it strange we live in the stable, but the horses don't mind and neither do we.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), February 03, 2001.

Stacy already mentioned one book I was going to recommend --Complete Plans for Building Horse Barns Big and Small -- which can probably help you with any building codes. I liked the looks of the 4 or 6- horse barn with cottage attached, as well as the plan for making an attached garage that is convertable to horse stalls (or other critters). If they give you grief about having animals so close to your house, it's a garage. (I say neither yea nor neigh....small pun)

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), February 04, 2001.

No, I don't, but it's not a bad idea. No body every questions the dust in the barn. Never have to sweep the floor. Cool. I could do my housekeeping with a pitchfork and a hose, and feed everyone out of buckets. I think I'll start packing!

-- Maggie's Farm (elemon@peacehealth.org), February 06, 2001.

Oops - in earlier post, I forgot to mention that the 2400 sq ft planned is enough to use a portion of it for animals and portion for humans until a new structure gets built. I thought the idea of building a p/s/p structure might appeal to someone who wants to live with, over, or next to animals because the structure is cheap and could be divided with relative ease. But this would also be a way to try out living close to animals, if you or spouse are not quite sure you really want to. My wife would not commit to this ahead of time, but she might get used to it and find that she likes it.

It's not a "fantasy" for me, but I would like to keep them close to the house.

-- Bob (robertblessum@netscape.net), March 06, 2001.

My husband and I have just started considering building a barn to live in. We recently purchased 16 acres of land and want to live there as soon as possible. Since we are young, we do not have the money to build the home of our dreams yet. I plan on having horses and other animals as soon as possible also. I think it is a wonderful idea!! Does anyone have more information on layout, ideas, plans? (We are planning on 4 horses) Also, any information of cost of building would be wonderful. Thank You.

-- Liezl O'Connell (liezl@stargate.net), April 20, 2001.

My wife and I are all about this idea. We want to start a horse ranch in North Carolina outside of Raleigh and we have given a lot of consideration to the barn/apartment lifestyle while we get started. We are looking for books as well....any suggestions? I have played with a couple of ideas, but I am concerned about space, however I am going to look for this book that a couple of people have mentioned above. We want to start with ten stalls. I like the three sided structure with barn, apartment, and garage included. We would appreciate any ideas that exist out there. Are there any websites?

Thanks

-- Ladd Shepard (donnaladd@aol.com), April 25, 2001.